Jonathan once again I repeat: I'm forever grateful for your incredible effort for Ukraine with Silicon Curtain. I really hope you understand how much your audience appreciates you. Your work is incredibly important ❤

Please let Valeria know that I, an ordinary Canadian retired lawyer have written letters to both our members of Parliament and tried to reach American politicians to set out compelling facts for our urgent support for Ukraine. We stand with you!!!

Valeria is one of the best experts in countering disinformation and increasing media literacy of the population in Ukraine. Thank you for this interview👍

Thank you for an interesting interview, a very sharp and eloquent beautiful young woman who knows the situation regarding psychological defense. We need more people like her in important positions in our society. Greetings from Scandinavia

Thanks, Jonathan. Your guest Valeria is civilized and gorgeous.

Just amazing the effort of Jonathan to bring such a high level of analysts to his program, just amazing. What an energy and high intelectual level, a big thank you.

Yet another first class interview. Thank you for organising and delivering so many extraordinary people to us and for bringing their ideas and contributions to our attention.

I can't understand how Ukraine managed to bring up such a brilliant generation that each one of them is the definition of democracy. Very open-minded and full of resilience, wisdom, and amazingly broad knowledge. I hope they get connected to trustable democratic movements in the Middle East as well. Invaluable knowledge and experience for an area that needs it the most. Many thanks for streaming these fantastic conversations.

Hi Jonathan and Valeria, Thank you for the relevant and technical discussion. I watched it twice, and I will watch it again. The reason I am spending the additional time is that I am trying to discern what "actions items" are appropriate for me to attempt to engage. Due to complications of individual life, it is necessary for each viewer to be responsible for their own actions, it would also be helpful for the viewer to have a relatively concise summary of the greatest near-term and long-term needs that the audience can help with (in addition to funding and donations). For me, "target-diffusion" is a primary source of inefficiency; so I typically counter this natural phenomenon by tackling the simplest tasks first. What would be helpful to viewers seeking actionable items, is to ask your guests to summarize their top priorities for the audience to consider, and especially what (redundant) actions to avoid. This is not meant to be a criticism... It is more a matter of my uncertainty and trust in my own analysis of the discussion. This was a very substantial video. Thank you for all you do. Slava Ukraini

Thanks, Jonathan. Clear explanation, Valerie.

I'm soooo glad you are bringing up this theme. In the last years I've got very stressed when seeing people in my circles replicating like parrots exactly the same narratives than Russian trolls. Western governments should call for their respective Russian ambassadors to ask for explanations about the massive amount of Russian and pro Russian trolls that invade all Western online platforms (especially in diaries, in the comment section of news related with the War, or with crucial local political issues: for instance thousands of trolls pretending to be European and saying the war is not our business, that we are getting poor because of it, that the US is tricking us, etc). That should be the very least messure, which won't resolve the problem but at least that would trigger a massive exposition of this issue in our media, and would make our societies aware of this massive issue, and conscious of it when Western citizens get exposed sneakily to Russian manipulation.

It's really encouraging to know that people like Valeria have such a proactive approach to disinformation. Great interview.

No doubt in my mind that one day the Ukrainians will turn around and educate the Western nations about the significance of democracy, and so I hope they keep up the fight. Soon they will witness the dawn of a new day.

This is one of the most informative channels out there. Keep up the good work!

Most people do not have a grasp of history

Don't Forget Russian Economy is very small compared to Europe... probably only the size of Spain.... without Oil it would be the size of Ireland !

Another time I am so deeply impressed by the level of knowledge we have the honor being presented with in your channel, Jonathan. Thanks also to Mrs. Kovtun and all your other guests.

Wow ! What an incredible individual Valeria is! 🤩 Her knowledge, message and ability to verbally deliver it in English was intellectually stimulating. I’m pretty sure this conversation created some new Neural passages in my brain. 😂

Smart lady,we shouldn't underestimate our our enemies. russian propaganda is a strong tool for them and its venom has gotten into our society.Great work guys and gals on infoming people on western histroy and russian tactics.And yes we should repeat topics from different angles,as they say repetition is the father of learning.👍

Amazing content again, great job, very interesting. Thanks! ❤❤❤🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦

soooo good! And such a crucial element to this whole problem of Ru, which has become an existential threat to open/free societies worldwide.

One of the best channels on You Tube.

We can present reality in many different ways so that people can take part in it and understand it. "20 days in Mariupol" is an excellent way. I remember several decades ago during apartheid in South Africa, when the ANC received a number of Nobel Peace Prizes which also created transparency of the problems for the outside world.

Russia has, since Czarist times, but especially since Soviet times, poured vast resources into information warfare. It is a major strategic tool.

thank you for all the content you have shared with us, but this one is very useful and very much needed.

We need this info!

Thank you! So important discussion!

fantastic

Excellent

I grew up with an entire family of extreme narcissists/sociopaths. Once you realize that people are just incapable of providing your self, you will form excellent resilience to manipulation

I love your freespeech on this Channel, thanks Sir 👍🙏😁

This speaker gives me hope that there are well informed media experts who are working to offset the malign influence of misinformation and propaganda.

Valeria brings an extremely important point... Russians will need to be Educated in Democracy

Btw, Valeria Kovtun says something very important about identity and the need to consciously defend it. One of the things I learned from reading Russian literature, is that Russia and Russians totally lack of identity, they've lived in an identity crisis for centuries, and they try to make up for that with extreme nationalism and aggressive imperialism. But nationalism and imperialism is not identity, so they never get to have one. You can see this in their obsession with the so elusive term "Russian soul". I say this because one of the reasons Russians, or better said, Moscovians, have tried so hard and for centuries to destroy Ukrainian identity is because Russians DON'T have one. So it is as if owning Ukraine Russia gets some kind of identity, and at the same time they need to destroy the perception that that identity is Ukrainian. You can see this very clearly in the novel of Gogol "Dead Souls". Russia is like a hungry and angry ghost with no identity that endlessly needs to destroy and to swallow its neighbour cultures and identities, in an endless failed attempt to get one. Ukraine has been the victim of this for centuries! And now Europe can be the next victim of this craziness.

Thank you, Jonathan. Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦

I don't think of the war as 'Ukraine's war' I think of it as 'Russia's war' or more 'Putin's war'. I think the apostrophe signifies ownership and we all know who owns the war, who instigated it, and who is responsible for it. The war has been foisted on Ukraine by Putin and Ukrainians don't want war, they just want Russia to get out of their country.

She is so right about reeducation of Russians, just like what South Korea does with North Koreans that have escaped.

Hoping people will make the right choices. Not too confident they will.

This is such a strange war. Technological information and influence at such speed and this is combined with old and modern armaments.

A wonderful interview. Thank you so much, we need voices like this.

Thanks

Minds have been warped by long term use of social media, the lack of psychological resilience in being able to even ask themselves if they are being conned is off the charts. Sadly politicians the world over have taken advantage of the collective "weak mind". We must strengthen our psychological defense, Valeria is correct.

Its hard to imagine that Russia de-evolved in every aspect even compared to totalitarian USSR.

If You declare that information warfare does not effect you, that is just a clear mark of ignorance, overconfidense and even greater than avarage suggessibility.

Counterfeit information is a real problem, today more than ever. How to disseminate truth? To illustrate: In many lands, there is a problem with counterfeit money. If you were given the job of picking out such false money, how would you go about it? By memorizing every kind of counterfeit? No. Your time would be better spent if you studied real money. After you knew what real money looked like, you could recognize a counterfeit. Similarly, when we learn how to identify trustworthy sources of information, we can recognize those narratives that are false. It takes effort and sadly people are so confused and just aren’t interested yet. ☑️

I dearly appreciate the positive attitude and insights of Valeria. Thanks

Thank you so much for this podcast! Discussions like this one about this information we do have absolutely not enough in Germany. Especially here in Germany. We are really in the focus of the Russians. Just like the USA we are so naïve!

Thank you for another really explaining episode on this really repugnant war.

Regarding Ukraine's recovery process, I see no other avenue but for Ukraine to be the leader in the reeducation of russia. It's inevitable.

For years now I have been following some channels that deal with prepping / survivalism. In recent years, I have noticed on some North American channels how the content that was previously interesting has been replaced by Russian propaganda. I have a hard time understanding it but assume these channels are being sponsored by forces that like the Kremlin's narrative. Greetings from Scandinavia

thanks for posting

Cognitive resilience. A term I will be using from now on 😊🇺🇦❤️

The problem with disinformation is that all countries use it to their benefit. It is challenging to know the truth.

There was a genuinely democratic battle in Ukraine, to decide the future of their amazing country, whatever the ethnicity or circumstances of its citizens. The liberals won the day, not only at the ballot box, but on the ground, against the might of Russia. At great cost. Zelensky's heroism was genuinely unexpected. We can debate until the cows come home whether that SHOULD have been the case, but it factually WAS the case. Zelensky's heroism, and the maturity of Ukraine's state identity (not nationalist!). So difficult to express in a brief exchange. Not easily turned into a bumper sticker. Yet.

Great interview, Valeria have great knowledge on how to build resilience against Russian and China disinformation and how it evolves. I wish such lessons could be given to all kids in Europe, but also to adults who are also lost in recognizing how/when they are manipulated against their own governments and Europe.

Would love to see her Mi Tut / We Are Here project in English and on KZfaq - I avoid TikTok, Twitter et. al. like the plague.

There must come a point when Jonathan will get tired of talking to brave, beautiful, intelligent Ukrainian women.... Then again, maybe not! Great interviewee. So articulate, so knowledgeable, so dedicated, so honest. Ukrainians never fail to amaze me. 🇬🇧🇺🇦💛💙

Fantastic, Jonathan! Especially defining Russian propaganda fantasy with “ what is really going on in the universe “, the reality.💪💪💪🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦

THANK YOU BOTH! IMMENSELY! 🎉❤😊

Thanks again to you both! I'm trying to 'debunk' RU propaganda for 2 years now. Yet still I struggle to explain my friends (which are not even pro-RU) how this works. Hard to grasp this propaganda method in my head.

Reminded of George Costanza's line, "A lie is ok if YOU believe it."

Thank you so much, Jonathan, for another conversation with Valeria Kovtun. We should do the same in our countries and I hope, it is not too late to get our act together. If everyone would listen to your guests, they might get how serious the situation is. I will continue to support Ukraine and hope, my government will wake up. 🇺🇦 Перемоги і миру всім українцям! 🇺🇦

Valeria is quite the captivating speaker. Very informative!

WOW,, KOVTUN!

Outstanding podcast as always!

at 44:19 - 45:15 is one of the most powerful arguments I have ever heard about why we all need to support Ukraine to prevail

Little Stalin's empire building has to be stopped . What an insightful discussion !

I’m really sorry for Ukraine as they need to see hope. I guess they can’t ‘see’ it either close to or even on the horizon. I love you Ukraine and I never forget you and your courage. Every day I look for news first thing in the morning

Sometime I would very much like to hear an expert opinion on Putin's mastery of gaslighting and propaganda. My sense is that his role in this regard is pivotal in maintaining his regime.

Important and great interview and information- thank you both for your great work

Very interesting conversation. Thank you! I appear regularly on Ukrainian TV and in Ukrainian Russian-language media, informing people on American policy and politics. If you would like me to share my story with your viewers, I would be glad to do that. Thanks!

One of the best episodes on disinformation, so learnful on various aspects. 👏

Great interview. Keep up the good work. 💙💛

Thank you, Mister Johathan for the great interview.

Amazing lady! Slava Ukraini

Thank you, very informative interview, till next time

Thanks!

Another "gem" Johnathan, thankyou!

Slowly main stream social media is becoming into garbage

She's right. Most people think with their hearts and as a result participate in the propagation process.

Élevez Ukraine et victoire viendra nous sommes avec Ukraine Ukraine n’est pas oubliée Nous soutenons Ukraine ❤❤🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦

Slava Ukraine! Heroyam Slava!! 💙💛💙💛💙💛

Pointless interfering with UK Elections because All parties support Ukraine

Really. Thanks for video

Cette guerre a commencé en 2014 après l’annexion illégale de la Crimée et la révolution de dignité/Euromaidan ❤

That conversation was excellent! Please write a book on the Russian propaganda and disinformation you and your fellow Ukrainians have dealt with, Valeria - in English. That would be of immense value to the world - and also great teaching material for future generations of highschool and university students. ❤

Lets recall all the Russian Zombie circus when Ukraine claimed to hit their flagship "Moscow": "No, Ukraine doesn't have such capability" "No, Ukrainian attack was successfully repelled: no damage" "No, There is only a little smoke" "No, Moscow is going to port for a paint job" "No, Moscow is being towed to port due to a mechanical issue" "Ok, Moscow sunk due to big waves, 1 sailor died" LOL - that's all you need to know about Russian Reich...

Thank You very informent

Hers sounds like an excellent initiative

Thank you for great content! Can't find any details about the We Are Here project mentioned.

9:33 "That's absolutely fascinating..." Bull! It's absolutely sickening.

Fantastic insights...but she's beautiful and so intelligent!

Slava Ukraini!

Valaria Kovtun says [43:30] “I’m actually thinking and I have discussed this with historians as well, that it might, later in the future, be part of Ukraine’s responsibility to re-educate Russia. Whether we want it or not, we have this neighbour and we will have this huge country with imperialistic ambitions for the rest of our lives. So it might be part of our recovery process to also re-educate Russians and make sure that they understand what they have done and [Ed.+that] they feel the guilt that they need to feel, because it is not just important for us, for the democratic societies all around the world, but also Ukrainians who have suffered enormous loss. I think that without the understanding that Russia regrets what it did [has done] and that millions of Russians understand that they were [are] responsible for massive killings (it’s not just this one soldier who kidnapped a child and abducted a kid, it is the whole society that failed at building civic society, that failed at organising fair elections, that failed at [Ed.+implementing?] many democratic processes). And they want, we Ukrainians [+want?], just for their own sake, for their own mental well-being and for the ability to move on they [ED.+Ukrainian victims] need to understand that this society [Ed+Russia] recognises its mistakes. And I think only when this is done, only then can Ukrainians look into how they, [Ed.+Ukrainians], can contribute to potentially building this [Ed.or “a”]society in Russia who they want to be neighbours with”. I find the framework of the above thought narrow. There are Russians making Bloggs on KZfaq (For example, The Russian Dude, and the former heating engineer, a lovely Russian man with a big heart [P.S. Konstantin Samoilov!]), in favour of simple objective truth that includes revealing the truth about Putin’s intentions, and there are Russian people actually fighting a geurilla war aligned with Ukraine who are acting like the French resistance against the Nazis in WWII. Also, more importantly, I am sure that there are millions who would be mortified if they thought that they could have stopped Putin going into Ukraine. No, I do not think that most Russians are responsible. Ukraine is a success story because the People of democratic Ukraine took the bull by the horns and did what Valeria Kovtun accuses the Russian People of not doing, but the task is a bigger ask for Russians, who are downtrodden and made impotent by the Putin regime, and, as Jonathan Fink has stated, have not had a say in matters, ever. There’s a saying that applies here: ‘What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger’. What makes Ukrainians hard to beat, and what will help them make a great democracy is that they are a nation of survivors who now know what they want. However, Russian youth, although Putin is trying his best to brainwash them, may well align with Ukrainians; at least those who are school leaving age now, who know what it is to have internet access to the rest of the world. Also, I am sure that, if overwhelming force were available now, the future in which Ukraine may have a large say in bringing the Russian People into the modern integrated-separatist world in which we all want to have holidays here-and-there, in which Ukrainian girls make video bloggs about clothes and funny things and Russians have holidays in Greece, London, and The States, or Chinese girls swing their hips for the boys, as they do in a million KZfaq shorts, and South Korean, and (why not) North Korean, production companies make heart-warming and touchingly innocent love stories, and the middle-aged Russian parents who listened to Putin on his stage and nodded in arid acceptance can take time-off with their children and laugh and play in Paris, London and New York.. is possible or inevitable. Rishi Sunak, the UK Prime Minister has said, and it is repeated at the beginning of the excellent ‘Ukraine: The Latest’ “If we give President Zalenski the tools, The Ukrainians will finish the job”. This, I believe, can be adapted thus: ‘If we give the Russian People the truth, opportunity, and incentive to stand up for Democracy, and their own freedom, as the Ukrainians have done, then The Russian People will finish the job’. Here is an idea..NATO makes a “Special Military Operation” that involves The American Fleet going into the Black Sea with Turkey’s consent, Ukraine is helped to develop her own powerful weapons, and Ukraine and China temporarily joining NATO as honorary members, with conditions, (something about Taiwan and her continued independence, and sharing of A.I. industries and joint projects in A.I.), and Russia is temporarily relieved of United Nations powers, and then with all the accumulated might of these great nations, march to Moscow after taking control of the Russian State Television (powerful and protected satellites would need to be built and put into low orbit) and outlining the (this) idea but particularly the protection of the Russian People, and take Putin and his gang into hiding to live out their lives in great luxury, and even write books.. Then, make the United States Of Russia out of Russia Proper, and give all the nations that Russia has taken, back to themselves with bilingual United Nations Diplomats to help them become and/or stay democratic. Set-up ‘Universities Of One-Truth’ in Crimea and, well, everywhere, that teach all the real histories of humanity and all the religions as one, none being above any other, just different. Meyrick .

Very interesting and enlightening, thank you

Resilience also suggests an ability to endure incidental (unintended harm) as well.

Lies are acts of desperation. Should the truth emerge, the Russia would be finished.

Why are cryptographic signatures still not being used to authenticate news sources and why are people not demanding them for all content? Maybe it’s not a perfect system, but it far surpasses what we have now and can support a web-of-trust framework where content platforms can set reasonable defaults that governments could legislate. (Default settings are not censorship.)

Very much l personally I am healing from it.

Very important what Valeria says in the end: “ in the future, we have to re-educate the Russians, so that they can understand what they have done and that they can feel the guilt!” Especially I as a German can agree to that. My grandfather was a Nazi and Nazi Germany has committed similar crimes, but not at a psychological extent as Russia nowadays. (Because Hitler did not have the Internet yet and could not spoil millions of people all over the world) Nazi Germany was conquered and lost the war. So we Germans could understand what we’ve done. The only key for Russians to also understand their crimes would be that they lose completely this war. But therefore Ukraine needs all help possible. (unfortunately we see exactly the opposite from the western countries.😡)