Thanks for being the only grownup in the room. Even if Warcry was officially stopped, we could still play it. I don’t understand why folks think James Workshop gets the final word.
@kalamity93 ай бұрын
The important thing: new people. Take Dark Age, Confrontation, or many other miniatures games that got discontinued for whatever reason. People who got into it may still play it for the memory of it, or the love for the rules or the miniatures. But there aint gonna be any new people coming into them and the games will not grow in any way.
@dmchodge3 ай бұрын
I'm still playing 1st edition.
@shorelessskies3 ай бұрын
@@dmchodge Catacombs is v cool
@DeathJester40k3 ай бұрын
That's what happened with Blood bowl, the community refused to let it die. James Workshop realized they were essentially letting third-party miniature companies make money off their own IP and announced second edition.
@kalamity93 ай бұрын
@BigA40k Sumilar to that, Mordheim, rumours are floating around that it may be coming back, but who knows. Thing is, Mordheim has been "dead" for almost 20 years exactly, and only now we get rumours that have at least some sort of backing behind them. I dont want games to die, especially the ones that are fun and unique, if popular enough, they might go into stagnation mode. Warcry, sadly, is only fun, its proper uniqueness died with 2nd edition. It lost "style", Mordheim and Blood Bowl had and have a unique style and flavor.
@Tewi7Inaba3 ай бұрын
literally pyre and flood was released a week ago for warcry
@reubenmccallum33503 ай бұрын
And for Warcry 1 the product release schedule was what, one thing a year?
@LuckyNumber473 ай бұрын
I’ve been a Warcry ambassador for my local area and I’ve only had more people asking me about playing it this month then I did all year. I think people are starting to notice it more now than ever.
@OffMetaMusings3 ай бұрын
This is kind of my issue; Doomsaying is fine and all but we are trying to actively grow the game here and it becomes a real problem when the general sentiment towards a game becomes that it's going away.
@jakew51153 ай бұрын
Subscribing and supporting OffMetaMusing also shows GW people are interested in Warcry.
@OffMetaMusings3 ай бұрын
Haha, I'll take it!
@johanderyck65983 ай бұрын
It makes sense for GW being silent on their gateway skirmish game for AoS months before they are going to try and push spearhead AoS as the gateway to AoS. Keep calm and play whatever you prefer.
@reubenmccallum33503 ай бұрын
If Warcry stopped being produced by GW tomorrow I would have more content and rules for models and campaigns than Mordheim has run on for 20+ years. People need to decouple the hobby they enjoy from the product churn. We need to stop treating wargaming like it's mmo servers.
@anotherzingbo3 ай бұрын
Back in 2019 people were asking "is Kill Team dead?" quite a lot - in the gap between Kill Team: Elites being announced and it being released. This sort of reaction is common and not always rational. Sadly I doubt your video will be seen as much as Tabletop Minions' "Are We Seeing the END of Warcry?" video from Friday. 😞
@shorelessskies3 ай бұрын
It’s not just Warhammer, either. Seems like most long-running games (video or tabletop) have this same kind of doomsaying for some reason
@OffMetaMusings3 ай бұрын
I've actually got a video ready to go for a totally different topic that looks at content creator responsibility and how that impacts what people play. There seems to be alot if overlap in this case.
@NeoRaven783 ай бұрын
GW has not earned the benefit of "rational" reactions. Uncle Atom's favorite GW game is Warcry and his video was not that negative or definitive. His video was a very rational and reserved video where he was just pointing out the signs that he saw coming while at the same time hoping that he was wrong. This video, on the other hand, is from somebody that has an entire KZfaq channel based on a single game and so is far less rational. Both videos make good, valid points. However, if somebody was to ask me about getting into Warcry right now, I would not dissuade them, but I would caution them. GW eliminating production on so many warbands that were custom created for Warcry is NOT a good sign at all, especially if they were selling so well.
@reubenmccallum33503 ай бұрын
@@OffMetaMusingsI haven't watched Uncle Atom's musings but as most of his content seems more based on his personal vibes than any fact I didn't expect much. I'm glad to see people are approaching this with a calm head, instead of the usual cycle of doomsaying. I'd watch a vid about content creator responsibility. A lot of "gw has destroyed my army" coming from a lot of quarters that overlooks a lot.
@Shalickx3 ай бұрын
In an age where so many people consume news by just reading head lines and titles. I was pretty disappointed see that title pop up in my feed. When I was looking for my first tabletop game to get into, seeing a title like that could have planted the seed that warcry was dying and I may not have decided to get into the game.
@CastironWhisky3 ай бұрын
In a world that Killteam and Necromunda exist... we could have Warcry and Mordheim 2 so I don't understand the hate that warcry gets from some of the mordheim fans. Thanks for a very good explanation on a complex topic!
@mikedaknight88543 ай бұрын
My understanding was (using Corvus Cabal as an example because I want them) they coming out of AoS but will now be exclusively made for warcry. Just got to wait for them to be back in stock.
@clone_693 ай бұрын
No, the article specifically said the models will be out of production. Doesn't mean they can't eventually be available made to order
@Phalanx1673 ай бұрын
I get that GW Wanted to cull the clutter from Slaves to Darkness in AoS and remove all the warbands that no longer have a home from the store, but part of this was just a problem of their own making that they could have found more creative solutions. Just like the Dark Oath became a full part of S2D, some of the other warbands could have realized that Archaon's Legions were not the place for them and instead heard one of the Four (now five) calling to them. Several warbands already had an identity coded towards one of the gods a d they should had an epiphany and joined their armies; Unmade in Hedonites, Iron Golems in Bloodbound, Corvus Cabal in Maggotkin, and Cypherlords in Disciples. These army ranges are small could have used the extra unit (except arguably Bloodbound) and could have used to extra representation of their God's aspect to make their armies less monolithic. Also the main problem Warcry doesn't get support in terms of balance and rules that even Killteam and Warhammer Underworlds does yet, which is what I feel holds it back a bit. Like the new Seraphon, Ironjawz, and Slaves to Darkness ranges still do not have rules to this day, while Ghouls and Cities do. It makes GW appear very blaze and noncommittal when it comes to this game.
@OffMetaMusings3 ай бұрын
I think on the point of lack of rules support; to be fair after the release of Seraphon (not including unfortunately), basically every AoS and WH:U release has had warcry rules. Balance updates yeah, I would like but the community seems split on how often they should happen; And my personal view is that the reason we don't get them regularly is that they are mainly triggered by tournament results and GW continues to see warcry as a casual game - another reason why im calling on people to actually go to events.
@theDackjanielz3 ай бұрын
My warcry warbands will become darkoath and GW cant stop me :D
@Phalanx1673 ай бұрын
@theDackjanielz Yup. It's a smart move and a lot of people are doing it. The warbands are way cooler than generic Barbarians anyway.
@steveisaak43202 ай бұрын
I wanted a good chaos warband.
@robertviscomi81993 ай бұрын
since november: 6 warcry warbands and 10 underworld warbands added to warcry. That is insane.
@OffMetaMusings3 ай бұрын
It literally has the most content released month-on-month out of any GW game at this point.
@NeoRaven783 ай бұрын
Underworlds warbands are not a sign of anything good or bad. The miniatures already exist in another game and GW can simply make up rules (balanced or not) on the drop of a dime to fill empty space in White Dwarf.
@robertviscomi81993 ай бұрын
@@NeoRaven78 you highlighted it yourself. The very fact they are adding rules is good. Still 6 warbands in 6 months is great. Two more on the horizon
@TheGlobuleReturns3 ай бұрын
Isnt that the main point for those that think it’s about to be canned?
@robertviscomi81993 ай бұрын
@@TheGlobuleReturns right we’re getting tons of support. No need to worry about
@clone_693 ай бұрын
Well, that certainly soothes some of my worries. Uncle Atom's comment about how you can still find Heart of Ghur under retail price available for sale in big retailers as a sign that sales are not good was certainly worrisome. Then again, I hope it's not a case of me just hearing what I want to hear,
@OffMetaMusings3 ай бұрын
If you actually look a bit deeper into that; most of the retailers (here at least) show the product as instock on google but on their website as on backorder (so basically sold out until GW sends them more, which they wont because they are gone). Similarly, the only HoG set on Amazon that I can find is more then double the original price.
@colin_painting_adventure3 ай бұрын
Finally someone who gets it. Re Mordheim I believe GeeDubs should do a Made to Order for Mordheim rather than a re-release. Demand would be high & there would be no wastage for GeeDubs.
@blazingknight.3 ай бұрын
First of all, thank you for this video, a voice of reason is always needed. Regarding the Mordheim -- thanks for that comment. People playing Warcry definitely are enjoying a very different game, and I'm sure that most of the player base don't really want anything like Mordheim -- otherwise they would play it and not Warcry. The whole Mordheim thing in my personal opinion is like some myth and cult in a way. People constantly will tell how epic and great it is, how it's the best GW game to ever be made. And usually it will all fall down to aesthetics of the game (and that's just artwork, you basically can take a Warcry rulebook and stick Mordheim art in it), nostalgia and some vague concepts of customisation or freedom. Like "you can take a guy in heavy armour and with a sword or in light armour and with a bow!" Well, I kinda can do that in Warcry as well. Yeah, I would not argue that Mordheim's system is a bit more flexible. Is it necessary to be a good game though? I read the rules and watched a couple of Mordheim games. It's clunky and vague in my opinion. It's an "I go -- you go" game, a thing a lot of people criticise AoS and 40k for, since alternating activations are all the rage, though I personally thing a well-executed "I go -- you go" system for bigger wargames can be fine, though not for skirmish imo. It has a very old style of combat system (something people criticised KT2018 for, even though it was a bit lighter even). And when I see people in comments regarding rules issues of Mordheim how it's vague or something isn't working right response with their own sorts of house rules -- well, to me it's not a sign of "the best game ever" if you need to invent your own rules to make some stuff work. It's great there are people who enjoy Mordheim, all the power to them. But I really don't think a lot of people who want Warcry to be Mordheim really know what that will be like. It's just "oooh, that old mythical thing was SO GREAT when I was a kid playing it, I don't want some new nonsense that's definitely was made by some amateurs, the GREAT OLD thing is totally the best thing in the whole world". Don't let nostalgia cloud your perception
@izovalofprime3 ай бұрын
I recently bought the Sundered Fates box, glad that it isn't going out.
@Shalickx3 ай бұрын
A revisit to mordheim would be really cool. I agree the rules are a bit more clunky. Losing a game due to not fully grasping the rules feels way worse than losing because of strategy, especially for a beginner. I think goal should be getting players to want to play again to improve instead of pushing them to re read the rule book after a loss. Warcry is super accessible, but thats just my opinion after teaching 7+ people how to play warcry. That being said there are some really cool mechanics and themes that warcry should borrow or adapt. I really think gw should just release 2 big starter boxes for the next season. With the AOS 4.0 in mind, it would be really cool if they released a box with a city them prior to the skaven invasion. Dense terrain with verticality. They could maintain their model of releasing 2 warbands and a terrain piece that either expands on the city or hints at the inevitable invasion. Box 2 could be themed around the giant skaven city that erupted in the trailer. You’d have 2 completely different themes that could be mixed together to create the “front lines” of the invasion blending the 2 cities together. They kind of did this last season (trees/bones vs seraphon ruins), but it was way to spread out and you’d have to spend way too much money to make a full seraphon board. Skaven vs cities of sigmar in a city theme would probably intrigue the mordheim players as well!
@RandyTheSavage51502 ай бұрын
I prefer Warcry's mechanics to killteams, Warcry is a lot faster and smoother running than killteam and that is why I like it.
@xUPALLNIGHTx3 ай бұрын
I hope you are right, as I have no interest in playing a revised Mordheim/Warcy hybrid system. I support Warcry through sales, and not tournaments. I'll never go to a tournament because I'm not into the competitive scene at all with any game. I barely have time to game with friends and organized play just means more commitment. I've bought up Scales and HoG for terrain and I picked up 6 more additional single box warbands too (within 6 months). I'm holding for now, because if the game does take a turn for the worse I don't want to have buyers remorse. As a new player they hooked me good (and glad), the issue I have is that if you hook me you better have a plan to keep me in the community. There are sooooo many communities to support, so making sure my money goes to the right product/people/company is important to me. The problem with your argument is that GW have in the past stopped supporting the game/version they released. Most of their recent company decisions have only been around making the most money and not really caring about the community in the right way. So looking at recent trends, it is possible that Warcry might loose support. I hope not, but since no one really knows we are all left to our theories/opinions and time will tell. Crossing fingers though as I love the game.
@OffMetaMusings3 ай бұрын
I think you have hit it on the head; Ultimately nobody knows and GW can go whichever way they want but for me at least signs are showing a healthy game in terms of releases.
@johnkitchen29243 ай бұрын
I like Warcry because it’s a lovely little skirmish game, simple to play but difficult to play well. My Beastmen & Dark Elves hold there own well and I have Splintered Fang warband on the painting table for this week. My little wargaming group tend not to engage in endless updating. We have the game and play it, if it was sun-setted by GW we’d still play it from time to time. As for Mordheim I’d love GW to bring it back, but the campaign based, unit building game it was is a very different game to Warcry. It’s nice having a small skirmish game with little book keeping, Mordheim wasn’t that game.
@eggiwegs3 ай бұрын
Sooooo, I’ve been living under my basement staircase with my dog hoarding food and water, scanning the airways of my AM radio searching for signs of new Warcry news since they’ve squatted those chaos warbands…… does that mean I can come out now????
@OffMetaMusings3 ай бұрын
NO! back into the vault with you!
@eggiwegs3 ай бұрын
@@OffMetaMusings Le sigh 😩
@criticalfocuschannel3 ай бұрын
Thanks for a sensible approach to this abd not riding the whole "doomsayer algorithm". Good on you!
@OffMetaMusings3 ай бұрын
The doom and gloom just doesnt make sense, either from a potential viewer engagement pov, or when you actually look at whats been happening with warcry over the last 6 months.
@EpyonCF3 ай бұрын
Comment for feeding the algorithmic youtube gods, as this is a great and important video on an important topic.
@theDackjanielz3 ай бұрын
Both Underworlds and Warcry has had tons of great content lately so if they are being killed off they have a funny way of showing it.
@Strange8ractor3 ай бұрын
I find your lack of panic and fear-mongering disturbing. How do you expect to get views if you aren’t just making stuff up to rile up the masses?
@OffMetaMusings3 ай бұрын
Oh yeah, uh... dead game!
@munocat3 ай бұрын
in the warcry book blood of the ever chosen, you come across the end of spire tyrants, iron golems, splintered fang, flames of sions and untamed beasts. As GW said, these bands did not make it. The story has moved forward. Untamed beasts and corvus coval are my favorite chaos bands
@OffMetaMusings3 ай бұрын
If anything Corvus Cabal are definitely full of flavour, but i do wonder about warbands like untamed beasts who I regularly get mixed up with the other kind of generic big buff guy warbands.
@munocat3 ай бұрын
@@OffMetaMusings I have not read the Anthology books, I believe the Corus Coval are in it, basically this two black library books put to end these chaos bespoke war bands
@TwinStripe3 ай бұрын
It probably doesn't help that GW's messaging was up to it's usual high standards (being somewhat lower than a snake's belly). They've said that Errant Questors are out, but didn't mention Questor Soulsworn. Khagra's Ravagers are going but the rest of Slaves to Darkness are staying? Plague Monks are staying but Plague Priests and Censer Bearers are leaving? That's the problem with vague messaging; it's only normal for speculation to rush in and fill the void.. Personally, I think we might well see a Mordheim 'reboot' along the lines of Necromunda and Hammerhal Aqshy has very similar architecture, which would be great for WarCry...
@OffMetaMusings3 ай бұрын
I think that the whole thing was pretty poorly managed by WarCom. A simple asterisk with something like "WarCry players don't worry, rules for these warbands will still available for you to use during your games" and all the speculation goes away.
@TwinStripe3 ай бұрын
@@OffMetaMusings Exactly - one sentence, zero drama. Although maybe drama was what they were aiming for?
@haaspaas23 ай бұрын
Whatever drives engagement will float to the top, and unfortunately we cant seem to stop clicking ragebait, controversy and negativity. It happens in magic the gathering, world of warcraft and all other hobbies I've been a part of. Years ago the biggest content creators were screaming of the rooftops how WoW was dying, yet the game is in another upwards trend and in fact more healthy then in a very long time. Creators need to stop worshipping 'The Algorithm', and maybe content platforms need to stop incentivising negativity so much. With all the capabilities of AI nowadays they have the tools and no excuses.
@OffMetaMusings3 ай бұрын
My actual question is that Warcry itself has a small community anyway so even content like that surely has way less of a pull then basically anything else.
@jean-louispayan68583 ай бұрын
Thanks for that video. GW and GW games are the favorite target of trolls spreading false news and rumors. Mordheim was "killed" by GW a long time ago and... it's still possible to play it and a lot of people still play it. Even if GW stops releasing new Warcry products (very unlikely), there is enough material to play for years and years.
@OffMetaMusings3 ай бұрын
Very true. I just think that people calling for WarCry to be Mordheim 2.0 should think real hard about what kind of game they want to play XD There is space for both though :)
@Banaanivatkuli3 ай бұрын
What do you mean cutting warscroll bloat in one game doesn't kill another different game made by a different team with completely separate rules?
@OffMetaMusings3 ай бұрын
At last count, it was 55 different factions ingame not including the half dozen separate stormcast factions.
@EarlofChutney3 ай бұрын
Warcry > Mordheim. I play both and speak with absolute authority
@OffMetaMusings3 ай бұрын
They are VERY different games. I'm not entirely sure that the modern warcry fanbase would necessarily want to go back to it.
@EarlofChutney3 ай бұрын
yeah, they have different goals and offer different play experiences. Very similar hero survival table in the campaign sections tho. @@OffMetaMusings
@steveisaak43202 ай бұрын
I wish I could buy cards for my warband
@haroldkeearns34973 ай бұрын
Finally someone who gets it
@martinShansen3 ай бұрын
we play every week in my store around 10 ppl weekly
@OffMetaMusings3 ай бұрын
thats great news!
@toferkrz9463 ай бұрын
Fun fact, the proper way to pronounce the name of the Polish tournament 'Warkraj' is... 'Warcry'. That's the joke.
@OffMetaMusings3 ай бұрын
I... didn't know this
@felippejonsson60782 ай бұрын
My wife and i just ordered nightmare quest to get started into this game, so ihope we are not late to the party 😂
@OffMetaMusings2 ай бұрын
Never to late :)
@000NULL3 ай бұрын
I think the actual problem is “story-driven product development”
@NeoRaven783 ай бұрын
I would not start Warcry as a new player and I would caution anybody wanting to get into Warcry right now. I would not try to dissuade them, just make sure they are aware of the signs. It's easily my favorite GW game but eliminating so many original warbands is the single greatest sign that this game is on the way out. I can easily see GW eliminating more, recent warbands as they sell out their remaining inventory. EDIT: I would like to point out that I love Warcry and don't want to see it cancelled. That said, I will brace for the worst while hoping for the best.
@OffMetaMusings3 ай бұрын
Out of genuine curiosity, would you expect them to keep several low, selling SKUs around when their replacements are just around the corner? Ultimately GWs production capacity is limited so eventually they have to take stuff out of production.
@NeoRaven783 ай бұрын
@@OffMetaMusings But why were sales low on these warbands? You said yourself they are always out of stock and as soon as they are back in stock they immediately sell out. You can't have sales when you don't have the inventory to sell. I know many people, in multiple Warcry facebook groups, that have been trying to find some of these warbands; myself included. I get the need to reduce SKU's, but to cut such a large chunk of a smaller game is very telling.
@OffMetaMusings3 ай бұрын
@@NeoRaven78 It totally depends on how many units they are producing at a time, and how GW's finance team is looking at the data tbh; If you only have the capacity to print a couple hundred boxes of each warband every 3-6 months, that translates to low sales over the span of a year compared to other products regardless if they sell out or not. I think liked to this IS GW's apparent capacity issues (evident by basically everything new nowadays being on short run, and most likely all their capacity is being eaten by AoS4 and 40k last year before it). Cutting back on a bunch of low selling products does make sense when you look at it in that light.
@reubenmccallum33503 ай бұрын
Is Warcry a good game? If yes, and GW stops making new product for it, does it stop being a good game? People can follow their own paths but the obsession with whether a game is "alive" or "dead" is buying into a commercial view of gaming that doesn't need to happen.
@NeoRaven783 ай бұрын
@@reubenmccallum3350 This is true for existing players but the focus of this conversation is new players. Almost nobody wants to start a wargame just as the publisher stops supporting it.