Just to let yous know I had to cut out the clips I used from their video because it turns out the music was copyrighted, sorry about that! Hope yous are having a nice day x

I don’t think they understand that majority of watcher fans are old unsolved fans.

The fact that Stevens videos pull like 100k-200k and Ryan and Shanes videos can pull well over a million or atleast upper 800k-900k, and they decide to tease us with a Steven show that is about him and his friends spending a heap of money, seems like a bad bussiness move fr

In 2020 Netflix was $8.99 with hundreds of thousands of hours of content but in 2024 a KZfaq channel wants me to pay $5.99 for less than a 1000 hour of content. Yeah no.

“What is the next chapter if you don’t have fans? Bankruptcy?” Is such a banger of a line

To be honest, hiring 25 people is already a financially poor decision and unsustainable long term. They could have made a slow transition to this model or have an ad free model over there and have ads on KZfaq.

Waiting for someone to post a 3 hour video essay on the rise of Watcher and it’s downfall.

They should cut Steven's show and the barista's show tbh. The quality and the charisma of these guys are not at par with Ryan and Shane's.

I think the saddest thing is that whenever a creator has done something like this and it didn't work out, the channels they come running back to are forever changed. Once you betray an audience you'll lose most of it forever

Cut down production costs, stop hiring too many damn folks, shove ADS down our throats, stop obssessing over 'TV caliber content" and a single KZfaq poll couldve all prevented this. I watch Ghost Files, Mystery Files, and Watcher Podcast for the camaraderie, the ridiculousness, and the banter. I don't watch it expecting to be blown the fuck away with the quality of the cinematography, the intro, the ads---fucking record the Podcast in Steven's Tesla for all I care

I’m going to miss Puppet History the most.

Why tf do they have 25 employees?? They're pulling an MC Hammer and hiring all their friends for top dollar, to their ultimate detriment and demise. Damn.

"5.99 so anybody and everybody can afford it" was truly spoken like someone who's never had to experience financial struggle lmao

I don't even personally care about the cost... for me it's about remembering to go to an outside service to watch their channel and the hassle of installing a new app to clutter my phone. I can't even remember to watch Twitch streams, there's no way I'd remember to log into Watcher. KZfaq is where I watch my media. I love those silly boys to pieces but I guess this really is goodbye.

I have a suspicion that Steven Lim hired a bigger team than he could reasonably pay, realized too late how much a bigger staff and better production would cost, and doesn't want to have to lay anyone off. I feel for them, but I can barely afford my rent. I can't afford to support every content creator I enjoy.

it really says a lot that so many of us have been around since buzzfeed unsolved, the lowest budget blue and yellow captions and all, and still won't follow them past the paywall. years of support and yet we're locked out just for the promise of higher quality content that most of us either can't or won't pay to see

just put ryan and shane in a room talking about ghost or crime story without any fancy editing, AND WE STILL WATCH IT

The way the video was filmed was just so odd.. so unlike anything they’ve ever made? I felt none of their personality, it was so…commercialized? The quirky film student/documentary style was honestly annoying, and the somber music made it feel like they knew they were alienating and breaking up with a vast majority of their audience😭 it’s really sad honestly. Not to mention the fact that the video started out with Steven, a guy who I literally didn’t know existed until the goodbye KZfaq video.

Eight hours and the tea channels are already uploading their takes. This is an unmitigated disaster.

The thing that annoys me most is how they keep referring to wanting to make high quality television. It's beyond out of touch, especially for a KZfaq audience who adopted this platform because TV wasn't giving them what they needed. Also, as someone who gets like a quarter of their views and a fraction of their RPM, if they don't have the money to finance what they want to do, then they're seriously mismanaging their business. They need to scale down and remember why people watch them in the first place which all boils down to: Two dudes talking about ghosts.

Watcher torching their careers for no reason was not on my 2024 bingo card but here we are!

Guess Watcher now has to watch the consequences to unfold.

People loved The Ghoul boys and their interactions. That's it. They could have done stuff with a phone camera and it would have been fine. Their lo-fi format with casual banther was enough. I was never on board with the Californicorpo Watcher thing they came up with. They didn't leave Buzfeed; they became Buzzfeed.

A couple of things people aren't really discussing, but I think are important... 1. KZfaq is not going to be happy with a channel posting nothing but ads for a third-party pay platform. It's audience poaching, it's basically spam. KZfaq is going to sink their channel for that so their reach here will collapse along with the residual ad revenue. I wouldn't be surprised if YT just bans it after a few months if all they're doing is trying to steal viewers for their own platform. So when YT diminishes their channel, or bans it, they'll see a collapse in ad revenue and they won't be attracting any new subscribers to their own platform. This means they will have to pay to advertise their own platform, which is an additional cost just at the time when their revenue is collapsing. 2. Steven Lim wants to resurrect his old show "Worth It", which is basically so out-of-touch it's cringe-worthy. It's a show where him and a friend travel around to luxury locations and eat the most obscenely expensive food. They seem to think they can just bring old Buzzfeed content back to life under their own branding, but they're forgetting that Watcher exists for the fans of Ryan and Shane, not the fans of Steven Lim. These are totally different audiences. It only worked under Buzzfeed because it was a larger ecosystem with a diverse viewership that could support that kind of "lifestyle" content. I've raised a lot of the same issues as you have in the comments there, but I really don't think a lot of people understand fully how catastrophically bad this decision is. Honestly, it's hard to imagine a worse choice to make. It's almost like they intentionally decided to destroy their brand.

It really adds insult to injury that they were hyping up this announcement like they were releasing a new show or something :(

"wonder how much research was done" none, they did no research. and tbh if their shoots are THAT expensive theyre making bad business choices, i say this as a lover of their stuff

Also I don’t get the “we want to make Netflix quality content” thing. Not a single person watching the channel was asking for that in fact I’d argue most people actually prefer the less produced content

I'm blaming Steven Lim for 2 reasons... 1. He's the CEO 2. It happened the same week he announced his partners from Worth It joined the team. Honestly no one wants to watch 3 guys eating $2000 steaks and gold leaf ice cream.

Putting the ghost files debrief on patreon would’ve been such a great move!! Watcher should’ve consulted you (or literally anyone lmao)

I can afford the $6 a month, but I’m refusing to follow them to their streaming service because of the principle of this entire issue. They turned their back on their loyal fans and now I have to turn my back on Watcher. I understand why subscriptions may be a necessary financial decision for creators and I respect that, however, putting a paywall in front of content that has always been free can alienate the fans who have strict budgets and it encourages an environment in the content creation sphere that makes people with less money feel like they’re missing out. And I refuse to contribute to that concept. It would be one thing if they had told us months or years ago, that they were eventually planning on becoming their own streaming service, but this felt like a newfound, greed-based decision. They’ve shown their true colors. Also, Steven Lim is getting the most hate online for this right now since he’s technically their CEO, but at the end of the day, let’s not forget that Ryan and Shane are adults who I’m sure had a hand in this decision as well. So maybe take it easy on Steven until we find out who or how this decision was made. But for now, Goodbye Watcher. I’m out.

Survey says that Stevens gold coated steaks are not something people want to watch. But something he doesn’t want to let go.

I don't watch it for "high quality production" I watch it for two guys goofily telling stories, this just killed any faith I had in their channel

I’ve been keeping an eye on the situation all day and I’ve only seen 2 people supporting them (on ALL their platforms). At the same time they asked for their subscribers money, they announced Steven’s series of travelling and eating the most expensive foods around the world. In addition, it might seem odd to say someone would go through the lengths of torrenting this but Shane has been a constant supporter of pirating things. So… people will pirate their shows too. 😂

Puppet History is actually amazing. The one about Hatshepsut and Worlds Greatest/Rudest Samurai are my fave two episodes.

never thought i’d see the day i’d see a WATCHERS DOWNFALL video essay let alone be sat for it

I've only just realized... Why wouldn't they go to Nebula first? There are three or four content creators on that streaming service that I would watch, and having Watcher there would probably, finally sign up because then it would be worth it. That service was made because KZfaq creators hated the ad dependence and censoring. Still behind a paywall, doesn't address that, but that seems like a much more logical step than their own streaming service.

As someone who's watched them from literally day one - this was a horrible decision! My age range is the majority of their viewers and we can't afford shit like this...

"KZfaq made us famous, please pay $60 a year to keep watching stuff we posted on KZfaq for free." Absolutely shameless. The production value of their show does not warrant that.

What they're essentially doing is saying, "we want to live out our dream of making high quality TV shows and we want you to pay for it" When all the fans want is basic TV, low budget content with the 2 main stars bantsing back n forth. It's a really short sighted move

now college students gotta choose between Spotify, Netflix, Hulu, HBO max, Apple Music, KZfaq premium, food, water, clothes, shoes, heating, lighting, medical bill, water bill or watcher. Yippee!

Greed is a disease. What happened to the “eat the rich” Shane? And that Lim guy is actually driving a Tesla 😂 what a stupid joke

I am unsubbing from them because this is ridiculous. Setting up a streaming service is expensive, the inferstructure is expensive. Wtf are they doing? I dont want trailers.

I really think it comes down to that we don't want high production costs. We want two funny guys with chemistry to include us in on their jokes.

When even vast Media Empires like *_Disney_* struggle to justify their own streaming service on purely their own content... Why do these three guys think they're going to do better? The sheer _Hubris_ is maddening.

I'm pretty bummed about this. Looked forward to their videos but there's no way I'm gonna pay a subscription fee for not much content a week.

what blows my mind is they didn't even enable youtube membership to get an idea of how many people would be willing to pay for their content/extras been massive fans of ryan and shane since unsolved and would genuinely get excited when a new ghost/mystery files season started, they were one of very few channels id go and manually check every day to see if something was coming up, but that feeling at the end of their video basically being "we love the people that helped us get to where we are but now we are knowingly going to abandon 90+% of you" was a kick in the teeth for sure

Steven Lim has singlehanded destroyed Watcher with his garbage content and the way he is running the company as CEO

I love the unified comments in their video. As someone in those comments, I was saying that as someone who could pay for the subscription, I am leaning towards not doing it purely because of the disrespect to the entire general fanbase. It seems like this business model is trying to profit more from Shane and Ryan's content to make Steven's content possible. The disrespect of their fans who helped them build their platform is asinine.

The way I instantly unsubscribed the moment I realized it wasn’t click bait to their whole channel and I’ve been supporting them since their Buzzfeed days

I just genuinely don’t understand how watcher is a 25 person company. Like what are 25 people doing there? I’m not trying to be rude but they make one video a week they do not need 25 people for that…

I feel like they looked at DropOut and thought, "Oh yea, we can do that" without understanding what DropOut actually does

Dude right now its almost impossible for some people to survive. I just got out of homelessness my friend just left the streets. Friends of mine are barely making enough to survive, living in places they grew up in. And they cant move out because its been so expensive they can't save. If i had to pay for a subscription everytime I Loved a creator, its insane

the way they posted an apology LITERALLY like two days after the announcement

I loved the Buzzfeed Unsolved videos. Watched them like crazy when I was in college. I had NO idea they went and started their own channel and continued the same line of content. What a way to find out, lmao.

There's also the fact that by leaving youtube they are also taking the cost of all the streaming bandwidth upon themselves.

If they couldn't make enough money from their patreon, I don't know why they think they can make enough money from a new streaming service. I hope for them that I'm wrong but I also hope for myself that they'll eventually change their minds.

Bruh theyre acting like we expected Quentin Tarantino levels of production from them. I watched them for the goofyness and the LACK of quality. It was endearing. Not once did I think ' You know what this show needs? 4k graphics, Shakespearan-level acting, Hans Zimmer music production quality."

Love someone commented that Shane looked like Corolanius Snow from Hunger Games. Fits the theme.

thank you for covering this. i was really bummed out by their decision because i don't have money to pay ONE youtube channel on their own page so it's really goodbye for me

I don't think they understand, that publishing trailers on KZfaq every once in a while, won't make them pop up in KZfaq recommendations. The reason why their trailers get so many views right now, is because the algorithm sees that a lot of people watch videos in that channel.

The fact they’ve lost hundreds of thousands of subscribers since the announcement is very telling, it’s been at least 200k since I bothered to take note. Just a huge lack of reading the room, a choice of words that was a bit of a slap in the face to fans that have supported them for years, and just really went to show they kind of lost touch with what’s affordable and who their fan base it. You could give us a single camera (heck, even smartphone filmed) format sitting in front of a fire with a drink telling fan submitted spooky stories and most of us would be happy.

A thing I haven’t seen people consider yet is what happens if Watcher burns through this money too? I think they’ve built up too fast (and want to keep building too fast). They want to have their cake and eat it and too AND have us buy them a bakery so we can watch them eat the cake. They basically want us to invest in their production company with no information on how they’re going to make it successful and no actual return other than getting to watch the shows they make.

The answer is because none of the shows were about Steven and he is the CEO.

Had Watcher done the Mythical model (exclusive content behind paywall on their app for paying tiers, with free merch for third-degree members (aka the highest) BUT STILL have some shows available for initiates (free)), apart from maintaining their free content on KZfaq), the Smosh route (membership for BTS videos, paywall for exclusive livestreams only with 30-day VOD and merch on higher tiers), or heck, even the Try Guys’ model (which in my opinion have not fully recovered from the mess in 2022, but at least it’s still working, in a way), I might have been onboard with spending what I only want to spend. Which is…not this.

ryan and shane have been some of my favorite creators. i’ve watched them consistently for years, longer than anyone else. their content got my through quarantine. it’s a slap in the face fans (new or old) don’t deserve.

I ended up unsubscribing. I’m disabled on a fixed income and it literally comes down to food or their new streaming service. Gotta choose food! And what’s sad is I saw A LOT of comments say the same thing, which is heartbreaking in itself. But this hurt. And it makes me feel sick. Tumblr is saying the same thing. It’s just a disaster now. Update: don’t go to tumblr. Fans are attacking each other now. It’s a disaster.

To quote a comment from their video: "Watcher? I can hardly afford her!"

Not the move. I love Shane and Ryan and their ghost hunting series but not enough to pay $5.99 :/ that’s the only thing I watch from them. I already pay KZfaq premium I’m not paying more for them

I think The Watcher's team is too big. They need to make some hard decisions soon, and I don't envy them, especially bc there's family involved. There are probably about 5-6 core people on The Watcher team who could pull off the most focused version of the operation, including Shane and Ryan. There are several other people who want to stay there and keep their jobs/new Tesla (Steven) who are not truly essential. IMHO Shane and Ryan should get their closest and best teammates, make the best versions of puppet history and mystery files and ghost files that they can. Streamline. Keep everything lean except puppet history (more there). Layoffs would be necessary.

Dude this was the worst news I woke up to. Shane & Ryan have helped me through a ridiculous amount of BS throughout the years. I started watching when I was a kid, when they were in buzzfeed. I’m now 21 and being forced to forget about them because, like many other Americans, I can’t afford any type of service like this. Plus the attitude of “If you can’t come then, bye” really is a shitty Cherry slapped on top. Like I get they don’t owe me anything, they don’t even know I exist, I am a number to them, but it still hurt to hear this type of news like that.

1 of the multiple reasons I watch Vangelina: It's free.🤣🤣

At first, I was sad because I assumed they were retiring like many other KZfaq content creators are doing. Then I assumed that they were doing their own website for more money off of ads. But to find out they're doing their own streaming service?! I watch Ghost Files, Too Many Spirits, and Puppet History. That's not worth over $8 CAD a month for me. I'm barely getting by, like most of us these days. And even if i could afford it, alienation of their poor fans is something I can't ignore. Plus, Worth It only worked back then because we weren't in the biggest financial crisis of my lifetime. That bougie nonsense just makes me sad at how wasteful it is.

It feels like they looked at DropoutTV from a rearview mirror and got the exact opposite lesson from that.

Well Said!! Great Video! Going to an Opera Festival this weekend and a silent disco! Have a great weekend!!

There was someone who commented on the video that said that they watched the GF S2 season finale while standing in line at a food bank... And like you said, a massive majority of their audience is young, and likely unemployed or don't even have the kind of freedom that allows them to pay for a streaming service. Parents can be extremely strict with how money is handled, and I _doubt_ parents would let their teens pay for a service that focuses on something that originally came for free on KZfaq... I certainly wouldn't let my kid do it if I had one. It's a waste of money! Also I can't be the only one thinking that this whole decision _reeks_ of Lim's ego, right?

I've been watching them since 2017. I'm so upset.

You are so well spoken. I agree completely. No research, no compassion, no foresight.

I've never seen your channel before, but I'm really impressed with the thought you put into your commentary, especially on such a recent event. Defo subscribing!

Ryan and Shane had way too much success, way to early. I thought it was bad when they formed Watcher, because I saw the writing on the wall. They had great KZfaq cash flowing in and a huge subscriber count. One should never forget who got them to where they were. I do not feel they were thankful enough for what they had, and got greedy. The looks on their faces now is not them. They look angry and burnt out. I miss the days they loved going to work, happy and enthusiastic. I will not sign up for their new streaming service. Shudder and Disney+ are $6.00 a month and offer so much to watch. This may be the very first time their popularity dies. In my opinion, it's over for them. When they figure that out, it will be too late.

At least the old Buzzfeed Unsolved episodes are free. I like to just go back and watch those from the good old days.

Well this was quick! I expected "The downfall of watcher" in a few months, not the next day 😂

Watcher never had a GREAT business model. They would always bring in new random shows that nobody asked for, and the podcast was one of them.

I am not American and the exchange rate stops me from subscribing to lots of things I wish I could. Honestly I can probably afford the service. I’m just not gonna do it because the way they introduced this was so douchebag. Also I think one of the videos where one of them went and ate gold food or something turned me off of watching them for a while. It was so weirdly elitist.

With how archaic, mysterious, and unpredictable KZfaq, it's changing TOS, and nonsense algorithms can be I can't really blame them for wanting to leave but this is not the way to do it. Patreon isn't enough?

A reaction from a genuine fan is very helpful and so astute - thank you!! 🎉

I've only seen ONE person say they actually want to subscribe to it without anything negative.

I'm on the clock right now, so I'm gonna keep it kinda short. As someone who has been with them since the channel's beginning (I've watched almost every video and got their limited edition launch tee when it dropped) I'm baffled as to why they did this. Like, I knew that making Ryan and Steven in charge seemed like a weird idea, but I was rooting for them. Buuuut now that they've basically said bye to those who followed them from the start I'm like,,, what??? I started following them in high school. I remember the day I followed the channel. I was eating lunch when they announced it and I was excited they were going independent. Now I'm working at a minimum wage job watching them fail. How times change.

An hour after their announcement, I spent over eight minutes scrolling comments before I found one positive one. Screen recorded the whole thing. I cannot tell you how much I love Shane and Ryan. I'm damn sad they're doing this. Would rather have seen them do memberships or take it to Nebula or something. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I just don't see this working. I will say this: the fact a channel the size of Watcher feels like they need to leave KZfaq to make money says something about KZfaq, too.

dude I am trained as a set designer and while I want my fellow set designers (or else) have jobs, high production value of the shows IS NOT why anyone watched Watcher. Puppet history with paper cut-out characters, guys just having drinks in their backyard diring Too many spirits, 2 dudes with their go-pros in the woods hunting ghosts - that's why we watched it! Have you seen how many people were listed in the credits for the "goodbye youtube video"? You really don't need this many... I am very said to see them go

Something that I also have a feeling they didn't think about, is the mark this has left on their reputation. Even if they decide to back out from the subscription idea after all this backlash or notice that it's not working out later, they are not going to get back the audience they once had! They can't just go "Shit, sorry, bad idea! Sorry about that" and hope that people will return. They have showed how little they care about their fans (especially long time fans) and how little they know their target audience!

Did they see Rooster Teeth close down (who tried trail-blaze what they're trying to do YEARS ago) and think "Nah, that won't be us". They could have seen that, learned from it, and just trashed it without anyone knowing.

There are so many other ways they could get funding. Memberships, fundraising livestreams, patreon, ko-fi, they could apply for Nebula and Nebula could fund specific projects, they could make a kickstarter or indiegogo for specific high production projects. This ain't it chief... Edit: Oh they have a patreon already, fair enough. Still a terrible decision.

Your point about the beginning making it feel like it must be a joke and they're going to announce something new on the channel is so RIGHT. That was exactly how I felt

Thank you for phrasing it so perfectly! I totally agree!

You really encapsulated all my feelings about this. I’m gainfully employed and could easily afford it, and would have if they had done KZfaq membership or something of the sort..but the slight and lack of consideration to their fans who are struggling financially as so many are during this cost of living crisis, or international fans where currency conversion to USD is horrific… despite the uh artistic and “heartfelt” video it feels like no thought or research went into this.

My family has supported them for a long time on Patreon now. No longer. This alienates a large portion of their audience who is younger and still struggling to make ends meet. Could we easily afford the sub…sure but from both a standpoint of principle and bang for your buck it just doesn’t make sense. Part of what made this community fun were the conversations we would have and now a massive amount of those people will be lost.

my plan for this weekend is to binge watch all of the videos talking about Watcher destroying their careers.

I love Watcher. I’m actually going to Ghost Files Live next week. But I’m not going to sign up. I can’t be bothered with another subscription. Life is expensive enough as it is. I saw some guy justifying it on Twitter as “it’s cheaper than buying cigarettes, alcohol, or coffee.” Sir I don’t buy any of those things anyway. What point are you trying to make lmao

How much of this decision was to fund Steven Lim going to different places and eating expensive food? Cauz the obvious decision would be to cut out content that isn't doing well. But Steven won't do that cauz it's usually his shows that don't perform well. I went from BuzzFeed to Watcher for Ryan and Shane, similar to at least half the Watcher fandom. I'm not about to let Steven Lim take advantage of me paying for Ryan and Shane content so he gets funding for filming stuffing gold flaked caviar with Simu Liu in his mf Tesla. It's Steven's content that doesn't do well and it's Steven's content that looks to need the most funding (esp with the new travel show, bro what?), and he's the CEO and now Watcher's behind a paywall as a separate streaming service? Coincidence? I think not.

I saw that notification and immediately clicked b/c I was confused. I'm already paying 15$ for Netflix for my mom and I. I can't imagine paying 6$ for something that I only watch three shows on (Ghost Files, Mystery Files, and Puppet History). At some point, I'll probably end up paying for one month to binge when there's enough episodes to watch but can't justify paying for something every single month. I'm editing to add: I've only seen one other KZfaq channel that I follow do the same thing. The only difference is that they still put out their normal content and any new series that they do is strictly on their streaming service as well as their free KZfaq videos.