People who eat $1,000 Pizza and $1,000 steak coated in gold foil always think that $6/mo is cheap.

It was a decent apology but not enough to undo all the damage. The magic is gone for some people.

Shane’s wife needs to sit down. Their wedding venue ALONE was $55k. That is not someone who needs to comment on a “survivable wage.” 🙄

I think they're benefitting a lot from the bar for KZfaq apologies being in hell.

I’m still really uncomfortable with what Sara said on Tumblr. Paying your bills when you live in an McMansion in LA is very different to paying your bills when you rent a one bedroom flat earning minimum wage. That is surviving. They are not surviving - they are living very luxurious lives. And expecting those in worse financial situations than you to fund your life is really off.

Is there some sort of contract stipulation that ex-Buzzfeed employees must apologise in threes while sat on a sofa? 🤔

For the ppl thinking it's a "good" apology: If enough ppl subbed to their streaming site, they wouldn't have reversed the decision. It was the backlash to greed, not realization of wrong-doing.

Shane’s wife’s statement speaks volumes and was so tone deaf and condescending.

They’re not apologizing, they realize they are losing money

Shane's wife talking about a "sizable wage" rubbed me the wrong way considering how much her husband makes, talk about tone deaf. 😂😂😂 They're completely out of touch.

The thing that got me was that they admitted that they didn't consider their audience at all when they made this decision. If a youtuber does not once pause to think about how their audience will feel when they make a major platform change, let alone one that paywalls their previously free content, they deserve the inevitable backlash

Its a terrible apology and people only heard the word "sorry" and tuned out. They didn't even apologize for the right reasons. "We aren't sorry we're doing it, we're sorry how we said it."

I truly believe they wouldn't have rolled it back if they wouldn't have lost subs. If we would have complained and stayed subscribed they would have steamrolled us. Look at the last episode of mystery files and Shanes whole "for the last time" part at the end of it like he was glad to finally be off of KZfaq. I forsee them trying something like this again in the future.

I wish we could replace every ad break with a "cat break" lol

Your cats name is Java Script! That’s the best name I’ve ever heard

Once again, they're posturing as if they care while reading from a script. It's a decent script but saying, "We're sorry that we forgot people are struggling to pay for basic things like rent and food" is pretty entitled and cruel.

Idk, in my opinion they kind of ruined themselves for me. A streaming service takes TIME to put together and not once did they ever ask their viewers for their opinion.

Apology video translated: "We're sorry we didn't think of how poor you really are and your poorness didn't factor into our lavish lifestyle. We didn't get the subs we needed. Ew, get away from me. Ew."

I think Charlie/Cr1tikal had a good take on it from the perspective of someone who manages youtubers sponsorships. He basically said that Watcher, from his perspective, is an advertiser's dream youtube account for a multitude of reasons

I think they also dont see that while a lot of people 'can' afford 5+ dollars a month, since its a subscription its an ongoing expense and one which doesnt relate to food or necessities. Plus people are already paying for too many streaming platforms. I think the big issue here is that they are now so out of touch with their viewers that they are trying to mantain a lifestyle/production that almost all their viewers couldn't even imagine to be attainable. They also scaled up too much without taking into account their viewers. KZfaq expenses shouldnt scale at that rate.

I’ll keep watching there stuff free on YT, but they have still lost me as a supporter in other ways. I’m glad they backtracked, but I’m not fooled into believing it was out of a genuine care for the fans who made them. They were just smart enough to realize that the people as a whole were against them, and their new venture was going to fail. This was not a minor mistake, or misunderstanding. This took months, maybe years of planning, they had to think about what was happening every step of the way. Surely they thought about how this would impact the fans. They fully intended to remove all content, and make us pay to get it back. It just didn’t work out for them, so they did what the could to save face, and save their business.

i still don't understand the need, as moistcritical pointed out they should be making plenty of money already and shouldn't need more money to stay afloat unless they have made a series of bad financial decisions

Its the fact that they said the draw for the watcher service was the new version of worth it. I keep forgetting that steven is a part of the channel, he isnt the main draw

Why are we giving credit for them doing the bare minimum?

I cannot believe someone who spent that kind of money on a wedding had the actual audacity to claim it was about "paying people a fair wage" 😑 it's reminiscent of C Suite employees of billion dollar companies laying off thousands of people while increasing profits and still collecting bonuses then blaming it on the pandemic...people will do what you allow them to.

Last week's video: "goodbye KZfaq" This week's video: "hello darkness my old friend"

What really sucks is Shane portrays himself as an eat the rich anti-capitalist, but in reality, he’s a corporate guy looking for fortune and fame on the backs of subscribers. His off camera persona is actually who he is. Thanks for the insight dude.

It still feels very disingenuous of them to me that they are claiming they were making such a drastic move because the company was failing and they were going to have to lay of employees and eventually shut down. Because here they are, continuing to hire more people and continuing to expand beyond there means. If they are telling the truth about their financial situation, this is a company doomed to fail if they're running ahead as they are.

My favorite part of this is video one was all about how they were doing this for us and the second video is all about how they didn’t consider the impact to us. Top tier logic, fellas.

I'm on the fence on the "was it good or made things worse" debate. My issue is bald-face admitting they didn't factor in the one revenue stream that would have endured, which have been and is their *fans*. It screams to me that no one thought about or brought up in discussion the real impact. No consideration for those who would unsubscribe and always have a stich in their side about it. No consideration or planning for their Patreon. Being unclear about whether their KZfaq content was going to disappear completely. Like, it's not just the announcement that's the issue, but the complete lack of planning for the impact on viewers. I think it's delusional to think that every person who has watched a few videos, every subscriber, every fan, would run out and plunk $60 down. It really feels like "Step One: Steal Underwear. Step Two: Step Three: Profit."

This apology wasn’t to the viewers, it was to their advertisers.

To me they have already proven to be irresponsible with money. If they can't make ends meet with the multiple streams of revenue that they have then there is no way in hell I'm ever going to give them any of my money because they've already proven they will not use it wisely. I've got better things to spend that money on.

Still lost my trust. Good on them and wishing them the best.

gonna put it out there that steven lim may not be the best CEO with decisions like this and not thinking through their audiences needs, which should come first because the audience is the reason they exist

Steven has no soul. Shane knows they blew it and won't come back from it.

Trust is like a piece of paper. Once the paper is crumpled up, it will never be the same.

Their business model of spending more money to make a better product is equivalent to putting gold flakes on a burger. It doesn't make the burger taste better. Bigger production value does not mean a better product. They sinply needed to tone down their operation if they didn't want to lose money and people aren't actually happy with their upping the quality of their videos. They've lost me as a viewer since I'm disappointed with their stupidity. They weren't even that famous to start their own streaming service.

That video, I happened to see while telling my Husband the drama, made me feel such icky. Like, no emotion, no sincerity, just saying the words to cover asses. And Steven still gives off "I am a manipulative, controlling, ahole" vibes. I now know why he rubbed me the wrong way but I had stuck around for Ryan and Shane. As the production went up, my interest went down though. I just felt like they were trying too hard to capture the magic they had on Buzzfeed. I appreciate what they are doing to try and rectify their idiotic decision, but I unsubscribed and have no interest in returning while Steven is there and the ONLY ONE in charge.

So, they did a smart thing, in the circumstances, but they still did a really unwise thing in the first place. But I won't be re-subscribing to them. There's a lot of distraction techniques in the apology video. Ryan: "We're sorry HOW we said it," except HOW it was said wasn't the issue.

I honestly didn’t expect this. I hoped for it but I thought they’d have to find out the hard way it was a bad idea and come back in six months-to a year. The fact they took their viewers’ word is meaningful. Not as meaningful as considering us in the first instance but they have never done this before so I’m willing to give them a chance. I’ve seen a lot of shite KZfaqr apologies but this one actually changes things. I’m back on board.

They sound like detached Tech Bros in the apology video. They sound like they are being forced to say sorry?

The apology really had the tone of "We're sorry you're upset" and it just came out a bit tone deaf and a bit like thefinebros all over again... Have watched some of their stuff before so Im not a hater but also not a stan. At the end of the day it's just greed, plain and simple but it's not something they can't come back from probably.

I guarantee this was in their back pocket the whole time. It is a common tactic to intend to walk back and feel like they gave in, when they ultimately got what they wanted from the start. I guarantee exclusive Watcher network content happens before their first year is through; after blowback calms down.

I honestly don't know if I should forgive them, since the wife had a wedding of a whooping 55K, and the fact they seemed to not think about the fans when making that decision also the victim blaming of "it's you who made us lay off this people :(" like how tone deaf are you, I guess the BuzzFeed babies never grew up from their "wa, they won't give us money", well that and the eating expensive ass food you wanna know what I think is a gourme meal for me? A fucking McDonald's happy meal! Hell everytime I see something that is like 100, I am like 'dam I wish I could afford that' I can barely get by as it is, meanwhile one of these dudes has a tesla (don't know which one) like come on. We, the fan of the watcher are too kind or too stubborn to realise that they view us as numbers not as people who watched them since the beginning or hell young people that don't have a lot of money. Sorry for the rant, I am just baffled by either the kindness or the stubbornness of the fans, now they are like rabid dogs that defend them blindly again, and anyone who isn't is attacked, like don't get me wrong I love The Watcher but now? I am not gonna trust them as easily and know for a fact that they can turn on us fans without warning if not careful.

They can't pick up a paper or see a news story about common folks struggling to eat/have a roof over their head....

this has steven written all over it i need that man in internet jail for the things hes said

Shane's wife sounds rich and spoiled she can't grasp that some people can't afford things so her response is trash

I cannot believe their Patreon has gone up by at least 1,000 Patrons since this whole drama😂💀.

They looked like they were crying a lot, I feel like they somehow really disconnected from their audience with this idea they had and kind of got a big ego and then they faced a reality check.

But it's not just $5.99. For me it costs $10

Im confused why they couldn't just do Patreon? They alienated too many people, and i've seen so many people saying they're completely done with them no matter what. This was a costly mistake.

A ton of people also commented about not caring about the huge production value they said they want to uphold or improve and there are certain shows that nobody likes (and one that probably costs a lot to make). They didn’t address either of those issues. (Loved the cat break)

I highly respect them for their apology, and I wish them well. I will not be returning to their content. I just realized these guys weren’t who I thought they were, and there isn’t any coming back from that.

I still find it a little odd they already had a patreon with I think someone showed 13K members which usually offers exclusive or early content but decided they wanted to do their own service, which I would think the maintenance costs and hosting the videos at a high quality would start adding up. I wonder if not double dipping from their patreon will impact what they projected the return will be.

I can’t watch them anymore. It shows how phony and fake their online personas are. Shane can’t make another eat the rich joke without sounding incredibly aggravating, Steven can’t make another food video without getting dogpiled. They aren’t apologizing, they’re backtracking on an idea that they were so confident in that their entire announcement video was so overly edited they were SO sure it was going to be a success. They don’t care about their viewers, they care about their views and the dollars that follow.

i've been a fan of shane and ryan forever. this whole thing had me upset, but i'm at least glad they won't be leaving youtube entirely!

I do understand what Sarah is saying, but... also do not spend what you cannot really afford or set yourself to unrealistic expectations for said spending that are WAY beyond your means. Especially when your spending is grandiose outside of your professional life with fancy cars, meals, and weddings. And this is coming from someone with friends who are in performance careers. You want more money to spend on your production quality? Then maybe take a step back and turn in your Tesla for a Lexus. You don't have to live in a box and I know you are 'LA people', but my GOD just live within your means!

The apology was good but it was too clear that they were reading cue cards and that gave me the ick. I mean just apologize from your heart it can’t be that hard. And it might be going too far but I would like to hear how they are going to scale back, moving offices and canceling expensive food shows for one

So glad you followed up ❤

Also the budget thing. We all watched BuzzFeed Unsolved during the pandemic when they couldn’t even film in a studio and they were sitting on deck chairs outside the building 😭 we never needed high production costs

The apology itself us a 9 out if 10. I take one point off for the simple reason 3 out if the 4 things they list as helping them is monetary. They forget the fact that giving them time to watch the ads supports them too. But otherwise s goid set of mouth noises. But 0 out of 10 fir honesty. That channel us making, minimum, $100k per month - if they can't make ends meet while earning over a million dollars per years then they have a problem ov mznagement.

I forgot your cat was named JavaScript and that brought a lot of joy to my evening lol

Can't believe they thought this was a good idea. I really thought they were more intelligent than that.

I’ve been a fan of Shane and Ryan for almost 10 years and it was upsetting they were gonna throw away all of us fans like we’re nothing. As much as I enjoy watching Shane and Ryan, idk if I’m going to resubscribe. I feel like they only backtracked on their subscription only content because they were forced to. There were so many other options they could’ve done to make some extra money for the company, so I have a hard time believing that they did it out of desperation. I seen someone say they could’ve started a sticker club where they send out different stickers each month. Which is a way better idea and it would’ve cost them a lot less than making a streaming platform. I think it was all about ego and greed. I think it’s still possible they are struggling to pay all of their employees but that’s their fault not the fans. They shouldn’t have hired 25 people. Not long before they made the announcement they had hired two of Steven’s friends so they could remake a show they did together for buzzfeed. If they were struggling to pay the employees they already had then why hire 2 more people for a show where 3 of them go eat really expensive food? And if they were struggling so bad then why waste money on making a streaming platform? That’s far from cheap and now it’s just something else they have to keep paying for every month just to keep it going. Makes no sense. If their business really is struggling then they need to cut back on costs and that means they need to put someone else in charge of the finances and budgets for each show because whoever has been running things is horrible at their job. And there’s no reason why ghost files should be costing 100’s of thousands of dollars. That’s just insane to me. Garrett watts and Andrew make the same type of videos themselves and the quality is great. Even for ghost adventures on discovery+ they don’t take a whole film crew with them while they investigate. The only time they have a film crew is when they initially go look at the place through the day. Other than that they set cameras up around the place and then carry their own cameras. That makes a lot more sense rather than spending 100’s of thousands of dollars.

I personally think their apology video was nothing more than a good apology video. They saw the writing on the wall and knew they’d be bankrupt if they didn’t fix shit. But they didn’t address a LOT of the issues that people had. They say they’re struggling to pay their employees a fair livable wage. But Steven Lim drives a Tesla and Shane’s wife owns expensive handbags. So maybe they need a pay cut. They also didn’t address how Shane’s wife and one of the employees decided to defend something the boys themselves ended up walking back. Lastly they completely ignored people saying that they don’t watch for the production value they watch for the personalities and the vibes. But the boys wants to keep the production value high because it’s what THEY want. They’re asking us to foot the bill so they can make what THEY want and live how THEY want while ignoring what content we actually want. It’s a hollow apology. It was well done sure. But what did it really mean

That cat break got me. lol

If Watcher's Apology was Honest: Watcher: We were gonna make bank but you little sh*ts wouldn't stfu about being poor. So... (sigh) We're "sorry".

honestly for me it's wasn't even that I can't afford $6/month, it's that I only really watch one series they make, and a monthly subscription for just that doesn't make sense to me. I also worried about their focus on production value. like the draw for me (at least in the videos of theirs i do watch, idk about the other series they have) was that it felt like 2 dudes goofing around and having fun. amping up the production value seems like it would make it feel less authentic 🤷‍♂️ The other thought I had when I first saw the initial announcement was "why not make a patreon?" The discourse around the announcement was how I found out they *did*, they just didn't really seem to promote it? idk I think they really fumbled this whole situation. I'm glad they apologized, and it seems like they do care about their audience, but honestly it's all put me off wanting to keep up with their stuff

So many people were praising the “apology” when it seemed fairly apparent to me that was the bare minimum they needed to do to not go down with the ship they sank themselves. I’m not saying they don’t deserve a second chance but only time and further actions will tell if they can grow from this decision. Fans are going to be extremely wary of them now, some have left for good but I do think they have a chance to listen, learn and move past this if they want to. The fact they never once dipped into the incredible resource that is their fans to get hard data, opinions and what else from them before blindsiding them with this decision is bonkers, the whole thing screams of being out of their depth and bad business management internally.

definitely still affects the way i see them , i think it’s a somewhat ok apology but that video showed there true colors

They’re not sorry. Their initial video was completely out of touch and they were cocky enough to think that their fan base would just go along with it.

The apology is the best thing they could have done. It won’t fix everything, there will be some level of mistrust for the forseeable future; but they definitely did the best they could to clean up the mess they made. Could this have been prevented if they’d just checked with their audience beforehand? Yes, but at least they took the reality check seriously, even if there’s a possibility that it was just to recover the money they realised they’d be losing.

tbh their content is niche, tried to watch their mystery files and hmm... it's "alright" too much blabber in between which is kinda cringey on my end,

I’m glad they are staying in KZfaq but honestly the way Ryan talked about how they don’t think it will be sustainable just makes me think well technically nothing changed so he still thinks in his mind that they won’t last on KZfaq and wants to move to a different platform. I’m just worried they will do this again in the future once they have enough people paying for watcherTV.

I think it's all fake. If they didn't even think to mention thanking people once in the original video this just seems like a big rug sweep and what their new pr person told them to say

If you are not aware of Shane and Ryan, check out their Buzz Feed about Goatman's Bridge. Best episode they ever made. I wish the best for them, but then again I wish the best for everyone!

this is my final take: so glad they walked it back by Monday they don't look sorry, they look sorry they got caught still not over Steven inadvertently calling us poor, the one employee going on an instagram comment tirade, and Sara butting in and trying to guilt trip us on Tumblr of all places with her previous post being about an expensive tote she got for her expensive honeymoon after her and Shane's $50K wedding Steven, you do not need a Tesla Steven, you don't need to fly around the country/world eating expensive food. There are MANY shows of people doing that already, and you don't stand out Why did it take you months of serious planning to create the worst decision ever, but 2 days to create an actually sustainable business model that isn't even a bad idea and no one would have gotten upset over if you just thought of that in the first place considering the aforementioned comments, I think an obviously PR apology was the best decision for how to navigate this apology because obviously they wanted to not say any of that

As a long time fan! I am ok with this apology and accept it. When I initially saw this, I was wondering why they chose to do something so extreme when more successful models like dropout have worked. Its a big breach of trust and will color what they do in the future. Accepting the apology is totally up to ones own opinions so I get if others don't. Im also curious. For those who feel like the apology isn't genuine or people shouldn't be happy with it, what could have been done differently? For me, this whole situation has left me feeling more jaded towards watcher and is leading me to rethink occasions where I didnt quite like their humor or shows. More so, I feel like all the complaints about them being bigger than they can manage, taking on unnessisarily expensive shows, and mislabeling high quality with tv. These critiaues all still stand for me. I accept the apology because they changed up the immediate concern. But until I see sustained action towards listening to fans and better management of financial stuff (or just. Not hearing of it again), I have no additional measure of how genuine it is. That being said, i take the initial action as a sign that it is genuine. This could change as watcher continues tho.

They and she are talking about how they need to pay people liveable wages, but like they're making livable wages! You know who isn't? 90% of their fans. $6 may be cheap for them, but it's not to most people living in the United States. Why would I pay $6 a month for KZfaq channel that I watch occasionally for shows with the same three people in them on basically 20 other channels on youtube. It would be different if it was like Dropout, where it was different creators with different style shows and a ton of guests, but idk.

As far as KZfaq apologies go, this is one of the better ones - but we are also comparing it, even if only subconsciously, to the other, much worse, KZfaq apologies (and non-apologies) in the past. I am certainly not going to pretend it couldn't have been much worse, but I also think they apologized because they really had no choice. They were hemorrhaging followers and fans and it would have been worse for their careers to not do exactly what they did. I feel some people who feel this apology is perfect and have completely forgiven them just desperately want to preserve their parasocial relationships with Ryan and (especially) Shane.

5:26 omg your cat! 🤣 I love seeing creators interacting with their pets! ❤

The greed of it all was a dealbreaker for me. Not to mention the lack of forethought and basic market research doesn’t bode well for the company in the long run anyway.

Wasn't there a thing about Steven having just bought a new Tesla as well? Like, looking at the comment from Shane's wife, I'm kind of annoyed by that MORE? Either the top bracket is getting paid WAY too much to afford a new Tesla and that's why the lower bracket can't be paid a livable wage, they are actively going into debt to get the new car, or it's just flatly a lie that they can't afford a livable wage? Either way, what a TERRIBLE time to ask for more money. But hey, I do like that they've walked it back. I kind of thought this was the only solid way forward, I just don't know if they'll be able to recover. Cats kind of out of the bag there, regardless of how you angle it, and they'll need to do a lot to earn back good will.

I’m really glad I discovered your channel recently xox

You're glowing! ❤️ (Sorry, had to throw that in first) I'm glad they apologized, it was a decent one IMO, but i certainly still have a sour taste in my mouth.

I’m so glad you covered this apology, it’s such a sea change in the usual YT apology. Or non-apology. I get they want to have more money for bigger performances, and JavaScript too has strong opinions clearly, but don’t most people channels want bigger budgets? So yeah, glad they listened, glad you covered it. All things considered, it’s ok.

Watcher should have done that BEFORE they dissed us.

the thing is the remaining followers will always know tht the guys are still on youtube not by choice, tht they arent putting their best content out, and tht they are very detached from their fans. there's also undertone of people who cant pay dont deserve their best content, it makes them look entitled esp given where they started. it leaves a sour taste in everyones mouth. their business is going to suffer.

I forgive Ryan and Shane but Steven Lim is slimy. He needs to do more than participate in a shared apology if he wants the fanbase to trust him.

5:24 You called your cat Javascript? That's one of the most bizarre cat names I've ever heard and I love it 😂

It’s a decent apology, but they lost a lot of trust. I did find Shane and Ryan’s tones funny🤣 I feel like someone on that couch said “…told you so”

Logan/Observe made a video about them saying goodbye to KZfaq, he said that from their first tier of patron alone they earn about 90k dollars. That alone is a lot of money. Instead of continuing their lavish living, maybe they should cut back on some of the staff, and maybe also not buy such expensive things.

I feel like this is probably the best outcome we could hope for as fans. Feels like a good compromise and that they really just didn't think a lot of this through. Some of that is being a tad out of touch, which is unfortunate. I am thankful for this though, because it put you into my recommended, I really like how you handled your coverage of this and your vibe, so I had to subscribe! I'm looking forward to going and seeing what other videos you have here on your channel.

I've been reading a lot of comments about this situation over the last few days. Quite a few different perspectives, all with good points. I understand them wanting to leave KZfaq, to create the content they want (production value and not beholden to sponsers). But, they had such poor execution. As a business, yes they do want to make money, but part of that is considering the fans (and the strong parasocial relationship). They were out of touch with the cost of things, especially for their international fans. And so many people took this as a personal betrayal as they have cultivated (purposefully or not) a reputation of being the every-man, eat-the-rich, just hanging out with 2 friends, kind of content (fanning the flames of that parasociality). The fact of the matter is, they are a business and made the smart business move of listening to the fans' feedback, whether this was for money or if they genuinely feel bad. People certianly have a right to have a bad taste in their mouth about this. Personally, I can't say i felt upset, just bewildered at the foolish move when there were so many better ways to do this without alienating the fans.

this situation just called me out to myself that i got a little too parasocial with Shane and Ryan😅

I think they lost touch with reality with how much money they have as it relates to normal people. It was a fast transition and it shocked me.

Love to see *more* of the kitty break!!! Very cute. They do love to get involved in everything. 😍

So what is the point of the Patreon now?

The fact that they gave patreons only 3 months free trial for this streaming service and lied, YET AGAIN, on this new video saying "Hey guys, it's free now for patreons!" just shows this is only money driven decision and money driven backtracking. I'm appalled. Anyone who falls for this, I feel bad for all the money you'll give them in support to later, when you grow up, learn it was wasted and you were exploited.

Came here to say Spaceships is fiiire and got me into your other stuff. Added you to my Sapphic playlist right away. :)