business dealings 101. doing the work is one skill versus how to manage contracts/agreements. Very different skill sets.

fully agree, contract management 101. Very conversation dealing with a change in scope MUST be followed up with a written note for the record detailing said changes and the cost impact.

Exactly! I had to do a, 'Manage your customers expectations' course and this was one of the main points that came across. Comms in writing all the way and always make notes with any communications with the customer after any meeting/phone call and follow it up with a summary of what was discussed. No room for 'missunderstandings' and wiggle room! Mind you, that was with jobs that were 100s of Ks but the principal is exactly the same.

@@mechanoid5739 When dealing with our customers we found, especially those with English as a first language😊, that confusion reigned and we had to clearly define any new or changed specifications or requests and delineate the cost. These changes were made into line items changes to the original or subsequent orders/change orders. The non English speakers were far more understanding of the change order process as culturally they did this anyway and non verbal approval was required to show that they were actually working and written changes showed this. We minuted all meetings and discussions and agreed on wordings that would satisfy all parties on their return to their home offices, the English as first language customers were quite shocked at the clarity provided and the effort involved to make it correct. Many of our items were low dollar-ish but the engineering costs were 100's of times the item cost, the customers would haggle the unit price but not blink at the Non Recurring Engineering cost which could be many many times the total hardware cost. Thank you for your comment and input.

Yes, quote WHEN the job is ready to be done. I can't think of anywhere an 18 month old quote would still stand. I wonder if he has factored in his time talking to the builder. Generally just mention "...it will be extra..." for each service not included in the quote. Also emails for records of what's agreed. He didn't say if the quote was written or not, but he should do that, as often people just forget. On the written quote he can include clauses like all supply issues and other price increases beyond his control, etc. Any variation should be followed up with a confirmation email. He might need someone part time to do some of the emails. In a small business where the owner does the actual work, as the business grows you find you need someone to run the office/admin and someone to do the work in the factory. You can't really do both properly when you get busy.

Yes, by BACS or cash. No credit card or god forbid paypal payments!!

Chain it to the floor until paid.

@@charlesjackman143 no business should ever accept paypal. They are the scum of the earth and will happily destroy a business for no reason.

@@Nbomber Couldn't agree more, they've stiffed me out of a few quid in the past

Cleared funds before the engine leaves the workshop.

Yes, it’s fluid depending what it needs. I don’t even quote. I might say, “yeh, should go in a hundred,” and that’s it. With barum the customer can go buy a new car, they aren’t forced to fanny about with their old one :o)

Agreed Neil, it is just insanity to trust a customer who keeps on saying "yeah, yeah, yeah". That should be a warning sign to anyone. I find that people who love what they do for a living are often poor business owners. To focused on the work to make money.

DEALERS ( and taxis) warning bells l Tell him your going to sell the engine to cover your costs

Yeah I'm in total agreement with that. You have to nail everything down in writing and preferably to the guy who is going to be putting his hand in his pocket to pay.

I agree and commented the same a few months ago on a previous situation. Remember., not everyone can see the wood for the trees!

things like this happen all the time in construction and the car repair business. humans just can't see inside an engine to know the extent of the damage. ya know? plus the construction co I worked for always made the homeowner sign an amendment to contract before any changes took place.

100%

Where has the respect gone for people that do work for you😡I have always asked for a price, if I need further work done I ask if it can be done, and how much extra it will be, and a ball park final price, I don’t believe in this “best mate” sh*t, if your good and I can afford you then go ahead, AND I never expect for the person that’s done the work to wait for payment, to do so would be disrespectful.

@@richiesrestorations4883 You acted reasonably. The customer acted like a customer. If you would have taken the job and THEN told him it was double or treble what he expected, he would have reason to gripe. It seems to happen at this Engine Co. every week.

Yes and no! If you are a small business there has to be trust, you are right but if the small business-person did that, there wouldn't be much time left to do the actual real work? I suppose it comes down to reputation, old (as in repeat) customers are great, it's the new ones you have to be wary of? Every business wants new customers but they may not be the customers you want? It's a sad old story, especially when you are busting your ass to do a good job for them. I know of a carpenter who took a chainsaw to the supporting joists of 10 houses in rage because he hadn't been paid, the developer declared bankruptcy but was still selling the houses from an other company. The amount of apparently 'solid citizens' that will just rip you off and happily pocket the proceedings of your labour, sweat and worst of all, your honesty, just beggars belief. So, on balance, yes you are right. (see, I could have said that in one sentence, perfectionist that I am, I wanted to clarify). No extra charges will be applied for my time (ahem, you do remember the $1,000 we discussed earlier?) ah coam oan! Pax John.

Until you know a customer well all verbal agreements need to be followed up with an email and no work is done, or spec changed, without a confirmation mail. Hard as it may be to finance you need to take on an admin person, part time a couple of mornings a week may be.

Small business does not work like that unfortunately. 98% of your customers aren't like that, don't need this etc. Of those 2% most problems get worked out anyway.

and they always seem to hear the wrong thing🤣

Yeah customers eh, who'd have em.

@@markrainford1219 you ever wonder why so many restaurants have so much trouble finding help? most of it has to do with no one wants to listen to a karen crying about how long it takes or not enough ketchup in the bag. the general public is 75% aholes.

It costs how much now? 'Listen you dickhead, you;re getting off lightly' we did some good work there and we would like to be paid. The effing story of every small business ever. Oh, I have almost wept in frustration, it never ends, you want to be friendly and helpful, you want to do a good job (I couldn't suffer anything less), the client is well aware of the charges and costs but when they are all sorted and the panic is over (you might have bust your arse getting this done right and on time) suddenly the money is not forthcoming or they want to retrospectively adjust the previously outlined and stated charges, or they only disburse payments three times a year, unlucky for you just missed the last ones. The amount of decent guys and small companies that 'sank' because they trusted and believed that honest work would be repaid? It is wise to take precautions and /or substantial deposits. Shaking my head now, remembering how three friends (good engineers) got absolutely shafted. (we did have a certain revenge, he he but there's no way I could or would discuss it). Like the old 'Andy Cap' joke, he's hanging off a lamp-post looking at a guy delving into an engine, he asks 'what's up mate?' and the guy replies 'piston broke'. Sorry, can't help mate, so am I' Story of my effing life! Bad jokes and bad debts. Pax

Customers are like women, can't live with them, can't live without them!

Not good advice, if that happened to me there would be writs flying about as the customer still owns the original supplied bits.

@@clivewilliams3661 Across the pond, do you not have "express or implied mechanic's liens." In the US you go to the local courthouse and for a small fee file a lien. (on anything up to and including a house) That engine would be yours unless he settles the account in a reasonable time. Sounds to me like customer knew EXACTLY what he was doing.

@@richardfabacher3705 I don't wish to get into a deep debate on English Law but as I understand it the original goods i.e. the engine block and head etc are the property of the customer and the debt is for work carried out that is separate save that the Courts can award damages that are collected to pay the debt. As the cost of the work that is carried out is in dispute it would be the Court to decide the value if not agreed between the parties, otherwise you could have the ridiculous case where a plumber could sell your house for changing a tap washer! In property ownership the Mortgage company has a lien on the house say but is not entitled to sell it without authority to recover the debt.

@@clivewilliams3661 In most, if not all, US states, your plumber analogy would be 100%correct. (Either party starting litigation about the charge changes things.) I was once unable to close on a house until the seller's outstanding electrician's lien for about $70 was made good. Otherwise, the house failed the title search. With portable property like a car, the shop can hold the car until paid. After certain times, varying from state to state, the car can be sold or auctioned by the sheriff and the debt settled. Any extra proceeds beyond the debt (if any) are given to the customer. If our hypothetical plumber did win a judgment for a "sheriff's sale" (usually it's by auction for real estate) he would keep his amount, say $100) and the rest, say $199,900 would revert to the deadbeat customer. One wrinkle is that when one makes a mortgage, lost somewhere around page 20 there is a clause about "keeping the property free from all liens and encumbrances." Another wrinkle is the tremendous potential for abuse. A common ploy with cars is to get a crony to buy that $12,000 car for $1000 and the customer gets nothing because the repair was $1500. "Profit": $9500. Didn't say it was always just, did I? The hope is that the court granting the lien will behave properly, but no guarantees. Conversely, if that dealer is doing what I think he is doing, he hopes the legal costs and time involved would not be worth it to Barum Engines, so he is reasonably sure he gets over £2000 work for £1000. Barum unjustly gets it in the shorts because it's a "he said, she said" oral contract and the dealer knows that weakens Barum's position. (@Matthew Harlowe HRS Cycle Sport also recommends the lien route. Are you sure English Law does not have the mechanic's/workman's lien?)

Spivs and chancers! I didn't know anyone used those terms anymore. 🤣🤣

@@Antony_Jenner shush !!! youre giving my age away, lol.

Yep, the key word is “dealer”. Red flag to me when it was mentioned in the video.

You try and get some money nock off from a dealer when the shoe is on the other foot!!!!

Totally agree with you Graham, that way no if or buts, all covered and documented.

Generally sound advice but is I can presume to modify your last sentence - "......., never be afraid to walk away from the job". If the customer knows that you will be surprised how quickly they become amenable. Those that aren't, comfort yourself that they were never going to be a good customer.

@@clivewilliams3661 agreed!

Works both ways that... Had a clutch done in a bmw certified workshop because at the time a mate borrowed my jack stands so I couldn't do it myself Got a quote for $900 for new clutch and install in 2 days......well a week later still haven't heard from the guy so called him and he acted like I was bothering him but the problem was he got the wrong throw out so had to wait on a new one so I said yeah fair enough sht happens and waited another 3 days until he called me and said come grab it it's all done I get a lift to the ATM withdraw $1000 expecting the usual extra $100 like they all do and the cheeky fk hits me up for $1700 because of the time spent haha boy did he learn that day real fast I slapped $900 on the desk and said give me my keys before this cost you a few windows haha he gave me my keys pretty fast ....18 year old kid he thought he could scam some money from

And if the customer restarts the project, new quote, get new prices from the piston supplier

Oh he gets it alright, it's just a ploy to get some free work done, he will want to negotiate and then bilk you out of about half the extra work. He's in no rush, it's not a customer car so he will play his games.

don't think they need any more doughnuts. 8/

@@dogpaw775 😂👍

"Car dealers are a known entity and are treated accordingly." 🤣

Yup - "But you said 1000 quid sir, what happened??!!"...

They are a different breed, normally.

Honestly I worked for a Evans Halshaw dealer. Every second hand car that was sold, was looked over by us in the workshop we had no questions asked £500 to put it right I'd it needed more you just had to ask they always said yes 9/10 times they wouldn't need much if anything at all glad we mostly sold new cars. That's going back to 2007. I do however agree most traders are tighter than a ducks arse and that's water tight.