When Michael Jackson wanted to record the "They Don't Really Care About Us" music video in Brazil, one of Brazil's most powerful gang leaders (Marcinho VP) was a fan of his music. So he not only accepted the deal to let MJ do the music video there but also went the extra mile to promise MJ's team that MJ would be the most protected man in the whole country while he was there. So yeah, Taylor can't compete with MJ's influence, there's even websites where you can even see the registered global sales + the revenue from stream sites and Taylor Swift is not even close to The Beatles nor Michael Jackson (They're both the top 1 and 2).

MJ, no questions asked. The sheer strength of his music, choreography, dancing and charisma, *and* all while putting on a voice in and out of singing for nearly 30 years, all without instant information or social media. He's still talked about constantly like he's still alive, and we're nearing 15 years since he passed. We live in a post-Thriller world, and we gotta see if Swift can have a 44 year career like he did.

No way we’re forgetting about Beethoven and Mozart the goats …if you want to talk about generational talent it’s them…their music will be relevant until the end of human history

MJ is bigger. Just like he said we didn't even live during his prime and he's still huge now. It's the longevity of popularity.

Elvis, MJ, The Beatles, Rolling Stones... And I can go on and on and on...

MJ the 🐐

Swiftie here. Yes, I watch TrashTaste. Yes, I like the Beatles and MJ's music. I know about Elvis because of the Lilo & Stich movie. To this day Can't help falling inlove is my fave love song❤. I respect and love a lot of things because of the environment I grew up in. Also, I love how Conor is in the opposite side of this arguement😂 Keep the convo going and always be respectful.

I don't think it's even possible to get the level of fame Micheal Jackson and The Beatles had in this age of the Internet and streaming; even if it makes it easier these days

How to know if Taylor is more popular or MJ? Easy, go around the streets and ask people 3 Swift songs and 3 MJ songs. Even after 15 years of his death, I can guarantee people will know more MJ songs.

MJ given the fact that THE ENTIRE WORLD knew about him even the most poor countries knew and fanned over him. MJ was a phenom and I'm sure in the numbers he's less than Taylor swift but in terms of relative influence MJ will never be reached again

How far back this question go? Does Mozart count?

I was like 7 or 8 when MJ passed away, and even i know that Michael Jackson was, and probably still is, the most influential music artist ever. My grandparents, my parents, my older brother's generation and all of us in our early 20s are still very much aware of MJ. He is known by literally everyone even in the 3rd world countries. We grew up with him despite not being born during his prime years. I think that says a LOT about the kind of influence he has. Swift might be this generation/era's most popular artist, but that is mostly due to social media. I don't think anyone in the near future in gonna reach MJ level stardom. That was something else.

Just because you don't like music doesn't mean that it isn't popular. I'm not into K-Pop, doesn't mean its not a phenomenon.

I'm not a huge Taylor fan but also i don't dislike her but I will say when i heard the announcer at the awards say something about her having as many rewards or something like that as frank Sinatra i was like crap she gotta be doing something right

Michael Jackson and The Beatles were miles more famous.

Also Queen at Live Aid 1985 would've been crazy if I lived in that era, been born after Freddie's legacy but been a huge fan since discovering the band.

As a swiftie and a long time trash taste I was weirded out by this. It felt like when you see your different groups of friends interact in your birthday party

Just think about it. In a world without internet, a place and time where content on demand was mostly for the obscenely rich (see the story of the rich man who bought an entire tv station just so the tv channel would change the movie if he didn't liked it) making it hard for people to keep up with your music releases with the radio and the beginning of music channels, in that world MJ had an even bigger chokehold on the world that right now the biggest music star has. Back then cities would be paralyzed for days when a concert was nearing. Back then MJ talked casually with princess Diana about how he left out "Dirty diana" off his playset to respect her, with her saying "please play it, thats my favorite song". Back then MJ actually managed to make people conscious about ecological health. Back then he broke the record of physical sales of his album, a record thats probably never going to be broken because we're now in a streaming era. Taylor swift isnt even the biggest influence of today. Cristiano Ronaldo managed to make Coca-cola shares drop in value only by taking a bottle of coke off shot and waving a water bottle while saying "Dont drink coke, water's better". And even Lionel Messia managed to paralyze the whole country of Argentina when he and his national team managed to win the world cup. I respect TS highly as an influence, but right now with social media and the internet in general, we are never getting another MJ-level artist ever again.

MJ... Even before Internet almost exists in every corner, everybody knows MJ, remember when he passed away he almost brought the Internet with him, cuz everybody lose their minds over the news

Here in Australia, the NSW government legit moved some school stuff to avoid it falling on the same date as her concert in Sydney.

Just here to say that I'm a Swiftie and I DO watch Trash Taste 😂

Connor... Elvis Presley is VERY, very popular in the Philippines till this day.

TLDR; Taylor Swift is a business woman as much as she is a musician so she handles her creative musicality while knowing how to market it well. But if we are just talking about fame based on her music, MJ and The Beatles hold a more vast demographic while The Swifties just so happens to be infamously loud when it comes to their adoration of Taylor. I think, if it's just about music, MJ and The Beatles are so much more famous or greater in stature as musicians. They are the type of musicians to be labeled as timeless classics even after their era, because their level of fame and talent can reach out to many sorts of demographics without any need for social media hype because their music just literally speaks by itself. Sure, not everyone likes it but they know and respect it just because of the impact their legacies left behind. Same for Queen, Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, etc... all names that were legends of their era. The thing about Taylor Swift is she knew how to market her talent and her music to an extent she would leave a mark even with her most mediocre albums. She knew the image she needed to uphold and how to treat her fanbase in such a way that they would not regret following her. When she had those controversies and scandals that caused her to disappear for a while, she turned it back around upon her comeback by allowing her music to mature in a way that challenged her old music which sounded either more country or catering to teenaged girls (and now she can branch out to the general female demographic). Taylor knew how to be a trendsetter without compromising who she is as a musician. She is hyperaware of how the media works and has a discreetly ruthless business outlook on how she distributes her music (which is why the Taylor's version thing and Scooter Braun feud became such a big deal). Taylor Swift then became an icon not just for her music, but the way she handles her music in the industry. Even her collaborations seem to be meticulously planned. Meanwhile, MJ and The Beatles are essentially great BECAUSE of their music itself at a time when social media was not the main gimmick that made the industry so much more cutthroat. Another thing about why Taylor cannot be on the same level as MJ and The Beatles (yet) is because of purity culture and the stigma that stuck to her overall reputation. Her disposition is so calculative despite her sweetheart persona (which honestly seems sincere because god forbid if real people held nuances to their character than just a goody-goody who can do no wrong and should always be a selfless idol) that many people always questioned if her Hollywood friendships are real, like with Selena Gomez, and people easily hopped the bandwagon when she was accused of being a snake. Some people tend to see her as problematic, and the craze of The Swifties even more so due to Twitter, which puts people off in a way that she cannot be unanimously considered as the "greatest musician of all time" or at least of her time. Many see her music as generally just about her singing about her exes which, if you listen to all her songs, is not entirely true. Even if a good chunk of it is inspired by her past relationships, she is essentially singing about love and all the nuances that come with it. In this day and age where social media became the main gig, people long for that emotional connection in music which ignites relatability with artists as an ingredient to their fame (thus also propagating a problem in parasocial relationships as a side effect). However, if fame is about just knowing the artist even without liking them or their music, Taylor is on the way to reaching that level (perhaps even surpassing them already) since people don't even have to know her songs to know who she is at this point in my opinion. The question now is whether her music would be so defining enough to be a legacy, and timeless enough to still be relevant with or without social media. That would be what will define her as a great musican like the legendary classics.

"I don't think Swifties watch trash taste" Well there's at least one here lmaooo

Let's ask this question again in 20 years

Mozart or Beethoven, Classic music, holds the longest throughout time.

Since Garnt said “of all time” , without a doubt Mozart. Mozart is perceived by people, untill today, as the embodiment of music in itself. Like, as much as I love Michael Jackson or the Beatles, Mozart is still regarded in our pop culture as “real music” or just “music”. Even if people never heard of Mozart, they regard him as real Music.

Yes and no, the thing is that music has become decentralized in pop culture. Rick Beato and the punk rock mba have talked about it on their channels. In certan ways artist can be bigger than ever before thanks to the internet but culture has become so stratified that they also seem smaller despite the much larger population of today compared to the 80s and 60s.

My two cents about the Swift vs MJ debate as an Italian: I think Taylor Swift doesn't have the same grip and staying power on non-English speakers. Her songs don't sound good enough to be loved by people who don't understand the lyrics. There surely is some survivor bias on my part, but right now (and nearly as much as it surely was at peak MJ) non-English speakers can't really enjoy Swift's music and lyrics as much as Jackson's. You don't need to know what Thriller is about to enjoy it, while I always felt like Swift's song speak strongly to a certain demographic. Today, just walking around grocery shopping in Italy, you can likely hear a MJ's song at the radio. People recognize them and enjoy them. I happened to listen to some of Swift's most famous songs through social media. Never heard them before and never heard them again, in my average day-to-day life. All of this is anecdotal so it really doesn't count that much, but if this is peak Swift I think we are nowhere near to MJ impact on music

MJ no diff. Without being a fan I know most of his best songs, but till this day, even though I know who Tailor is, I haven't heard a single of her songs, maybe one.

It's not even a question. I can make a list of artists more famous than her: Michael Jackson Elvis Presley Mozart Bob Marley The Beatles Queen Lady Gaga Eminem Guns and Roses I agree that she's really famous on a Shakira, Nirvana level, but people just think of the artist's influence in america when they debate this idea. I bet my ass you can go to an african country like Kenya and they'll know these but won't know Taylor Swift.

0:32 I don't understand why so many people are keeping this lie going. Every game, haters complained about how much they were showing Taylor Swift. During the Super Bowl, she was on screen for less than 1 minute. Where does all the hate for her come from? I don't like ANY of her music, but I can still see that she's incredibly talented.

I don't think we can tell who's bigger yet. We'll have to wait until after taylor's peak to get an idea. But honestly even though taylor's been making music and having hits for quite some time, I feel like this insane popularity she has atm is very recent. A few years ago I would have definitely thought ariana grande and others were more well known. So we'll have to see how long it lasts.

I hold the theory that if Prince didn't have so many damn issues with Warner (and waited at least a year to release a new album) he could've surpassed MJ's success.

MJ fan of 15 years and a swiftie AND a huge trash taste fan here. in terms of GOAT, i agree with garnt, its for sure MJ and no, *rational* swifties dont hate you guys 😂

8:40 Connor, we are here

Nah the real 🐐 is my boy WAM. Ever since my boy Amadeus dropped Lacrimosa, everybody's been real quiet. Only Ludwig von Beethoven has gotten close to achieving goat status when he dropped Moonlight Sonata. Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart the 🐐

Taylor swift 🤓

Why is joey dressed as killjoy?

*Beethoven enters the chat*

Joey: I don't swifties listen to Trash Taste Me a swiftie listening to trash taste: 😶🥹😂🫡

Its ironic how we are comparing artists of different generation based on how popular they are rn. Time basically is the main issue here. At their peak, MJ and the Beatles also have people who tell them they aren't as famous or as relevant as they were compared to another known artist of some older generation. If we go by that logic then how far back would we go? would you consider Mozart or other historical artists in this narrative? But hey, after their death, their fame still persevered until now, and it is kind of unfair to compare it to someone who is currently extremely relevant now, to say they're not as famous as the other one. MJ and the Beatles have proven themselves throughout their career and has left their mark in history and Taylor Swift is currently making her own mark, and we are currently watching her making history in real time. To measure the success of their career during different timelines and with different circumstances is really a tad bit unfair. In the end TIME can only tell. But we cannot deny Taylor Swift is this generation's biggest and so are MJ and The Beatles in theirs.

No matter how big she is right now, the hype is mostly in western countries and on the internet. In my country, her fandom is still a very niche one since majority of people here mostly listen to our local music or bollywood songs. Take a random person on the street and ask them who taylor swift is, and chances are they won't know. But when it comes to MJ, there is no doubt. At least 1 in 2 people will know his name even if they may not be able to name his songs, and most would have heard of an MJ song even if they can't name it. The people who listen to taylor swift in my country are very hardcore swifties and come from a very specific demographic like mostly young, posh girls from a certain privileged education background.

When taylor got EMTs working the crowd to get to people who fainted when she walked out, we can talk.

As someone from SEA, I first heard Michael Jackson from the TV news about his death in 2009. Second is The Beatles from the conspiracy thing.

Folsom Prison Blues - Johnny Cash

MJ clears easily. He also didn't have the hacks that is "social media" like Swifty does either.

As an Asian normie, Taylor Swift is massively popular, MJ is popular but it's on hearsay for young generation, they know him when they got older but you can see elementary school kids singing TS song because it gets popular on tiktok, older generation may not think her song is masterpiece but for teenage girls, it's relatable in many level and all these girls grow up with her song. I bonded over my nieces because I know Taylor Swift song. Also in Asia, the beatless is not that popular, Idk any of my friend who is in their 20s know The Beatles song, We all know MJ but not The Beatles. Queen is more popular than the beatles, like Idk if any of my friend knows how many members they have.

MJ get so famous even people from remote villages know about him, don’t for forget that was before internet become a mainstream

Probably MJ or The Beatles, but I could see Taylor Swift or The Weeknd matching them. It'll take a decade to be sure, tho, and it's an uphill battle for them.

can confirm, i am a swiftie and i watch trash taste!! and yeah, taylor is really popular especially among my age group (teens/young adults) but MJ is definitely far up there. and ya her music def isnt for everyone, especially if theyve only heard her radio hits!!

I'm a swiftie and I do watch you guys, so yes, we do exist. Like her or not, you can't deny her accomplishments. She recently passed The Beatles in the most weeks spent in the Top 10 Billboard 200, is in Billboard's top 10 artists of all time, is number 15 in total album sales (196M EAS), the most streamed artist in history, the only artist to win Grammy's Album of The Year 4 times, she's the reason Apple and Spotify pay their artists better (she removed her entire catalogue from Spotify for 3 years because they refused to pay artists during the free trials and her letter to Apple made them change their policies in 24 hours), she's the reason GoFundMe raised their limit to $50k, she's had 6 albums (4 consecutive ones) debut with 1M units, she occupied the entire top 10 on the Billboard charts with Midnights, her album Midnights spent an entire year in the top 10 Billboard 200, the Eras Tour is the highest grossing tour in history and grossed more than a billion dollars with only the US leg, her Eras movie had the highest grossing opening for a concert movie and one of the highest openings for movies overall last year, she literally broke Ticketmaster (who said that there were 14M people in line to get tickets) and the Senate did an investigation on them because of their monopoly on tickets, GOOGLE crashed with her vault game last year, she has thousands of fans OUTSIDE of the stadiums she plays in listening to her, there were thousands of people waiting for her outside of her friend's wedding venue for 2 nights in a row, she has a net worth of $1.1B from songs and performances ALONE (no skin care line, no make-up line, no clothing collabs, no perfume lines, just music and performances). And besides that, she's extremely generous. She gave free signed CDs and vinyl to record stores during the pandemic to keep them from going bankrupt, she paid fans' rent during the pandemic, donated to food banks in every city she toured in during the Eras tour (enough to feed people for an entire year), gave her truck drivers bonuses of $100k each and a total of $55M for everyone who worked on the tour, her dancers have health insurance and her band is paid year round, even if they've not on tour or performing anywhere, she used to invite fans to her homes to show them her albums before they were officially released, she even used to personally wrap and send Christmas presents for her fans. Swifties don't love her for nothing. It may be early to tell whether she's at MJs level or not, but she's HUGE and there's no denying that. The fact that this discussion is even happening should say something. She's been in the industry for almost 20 years now, her longevity is unquestionable. She has albums in multiple genres (country, rock, pop, folk, alternative, she even raps sometimes).

She definitely talented, She makes her own songs, can sing well, can play various music instruments. But the fame she get is too high imo

I honestly didn't even know Taylor Swift was still popular until I started hearing about how well the Eras tour was performing.

Honestly, Jesus, you like it or not, believe in his spiritual religious side or not, he is the most famous person in the world

I'm sorry but it is kind of a stupid question. Honestly, that question only makes sense after taylor's death, because MJ is still talked about after his death, he still has many fans, even new fans. And also Taylor is only known in some countries, most countries don't really give a shit about her and MJ is way more worldwide. Also, taylor's fanbase is mostly white girls, MJ had all kinds of fans

Mj, he's influenced so many artists. I don't feel after another couple decades artists will list swift as there favorite influence

This might be a controversial take but I think in terms of popularity MJ is way bigger than The Beatles, I mean of course I wasn't there when they were in their prime but I've met a lot of people especially young people who don't even know who are The Beatles the same thing happened to me with Taylor Swift, but I'm yet to meet someone who never heard of Michael Jackson and I don't think i will ever will at least not before many years from now.

I’m gonna say right now… I think BTS is super up there, beating a lot of The Beatles records. I think they are defiantly at LEAST top 3, I would say however, that MJ is #1.

60s and 70s Beatles 80s MJ 90s Queen 00s Britney Spears 10s One Direction 20s Taylor Swift I'm not saying they are all on the same level but they are some of the most prominent for their eras

For the hosts or whoever is interested, they can watch Priscilla if the want a more directly critical Elvis movie with Priscilla herself's blessing

Everyone is saying a lot of stuff about who is more popular but I’d actually be curious worldwide if the advent of the internet pushing a lot of foreign media into places it normally wouldn’t make it might have modern superstars technically being more popular overall due to the sheer numbers of having penetration into a world wide market instead of a mostly English speaking market for example. I’d wager foreign music markets are much more tuned into someone like Taylor swift currently than the Beatles in the 80s for example but I actually don’t know because I don’t know anyone who was living in a foreign market in that era. I don’t think it’s nearly as cut and dry as the vast majority of comments are making it out to be.

As a kid of the 80s Taylor swift is not even in the conversation with MJ or the Beatles.

I’m a Swiftie and I watch Trash Taste. 😂 Actually, I’m not a super fan of any particular artists. Though, I do love Taylor Swift and have downloaded a large library of her music old and newer ones.

I listen both mj and Taylor on Spotify and guess which artist always have a match on dating apps?

I can sense Twitter's aura right now 😂😂😂

Beethoven is cooking all of them

if u only know taylor for cruel summer, shake it off etc.. try champagne problems, exile, would've could've should've & no body no crime

I think everyone arguing for mj or Beatles simply does not have the scale of Taylor Swift simply because we are not the target demographic. The literal world population was almost half when MJ was at his peak. Simply from how many more people exist now is why the Swift argument has a chance

Re: Elvis….my abuela in Peru wore all black for 2 months when Elvis died. She absolutely knew who he was 😂😂😂

Tiny rural tribes in the middle of nowhere knew michael jackson, those same tribes today will never ever heard about taylor swift. MJ is the undisputed king.

14:24 As a boy from the Philippines Elvis Presley is pretty popular here

Elvis still has a more impact on music than Taylor will ever have

Musician implies that you're playing an instrument, so singers aren't musicians, unless you count voice as an instrument

Yup... I've heard the name, but I have no idea who Taylor Swift is. She is region-famous. Elvis and MJ were world-famous.

I think I've heard that Andrew Lloyd Webber is commercially the most successful musician of all time. It's hard to say who has been the most powerful due to influence.

Yeah my dad who is 60 right now and still had problem using phone that live his most live in this village in the middle of nowhere that only start having electricity about 20 years ago is still understand who Michael Jackson is

Mozart. Next question.

MJ was bigger. I don’t think anyone will ever reach that status. Taylor is probably the closest recently. I was around peak Jackson. I remember seeing people fainting and screaming at the presence of MJ. Doesn’t matter what gender, what race, what social status. Everyone loved him during the 80s and 90s.

Lady Gaga and it's not even a close competition, the accidental association of the Just Dance video game alone probably introduces a lot of people to her music

I wonder if Taylor Swift concerts are like X Japan concerts like Last Live 1997?

Also, back in the day the cold war blocked a lot of western music in 2nd world countries, so artist back then didn't have a chance to get as big as they could have. Globalization, plus the internet give Taylor Swift an unbelievable amount of reach that artist back then just didn't have.

I like mj more. But i don't think there's a single person alive who doesn't know taylor swift in some capacity. That and Taylor's fans are literally fanatics

cake in a bush wrote running up that hill right

I feel like People view Tswift as the president. But MJ was viewed as a god.

As a hardcore Swiftie and a hardcore Trashtaste fan, I thank you guys for not hating on my girl Taylor.

I feel like MJ at his peak was able to capture most demographic, male/female of all ages. Taylor Swift fandom skews mostly female. Might be biased because I don’t care about her at all. MJ, whether you like him or not, his music was EVERYWHERE.

Taylor is still only 30 so you can’t quite compare to MJ yet and also MJ might have more sales but in this age of streaming music can you really compare the sales?

Taylor Swift is popular now. What happens if she stops or retires? only time will tell if some sort of legacy keeps going, we can consider Taylor in 10-20 years if she is there.

I need QT to give them presentation about Taylor Swift

I know the name but if you pointed a gun to my head and ask me to name one Taylor's song I wouldn't be able to answer.

Really love all the beats Joey brought to this segment, and overall it's a great conversation about music and how it permeates culture I echo his answer around the John and Yoko collaboration album. One stand out song of hers recently was featured as an end credits track in the new MR & MRS SMITH and got me going back though her work The song here kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ladprLGA2rOqpHk.htmlfeature=shared

Currently I think Taylor n The weeknd worldwide

Michael Jackson was being pumped in local African villages before social media existed. Michael Jackson no diffs Taylor Swift atm.

Syd's mom is also famous lol

Mj and the beatles are more famous imo i just don't think taylor has reach that peak yet, she's famous for her success but not for her songs, people know thriller and discover it at a early age without knowing it because mj songs has alot of refrences to alot of pop culture, movies, or themes, people subconsciously listen to his songs without realising it but with taylor you activly are only refrenced on the internet and social platforms but anywhere else she is foreign as her songs have to compete to peoples playlist. They were more then music artist they reshaped the world in some way and for me she hasn't reached that level of impact yet.

I have to admit I do not like Taylor Swift's music, but the fact that others do, is fine, we all like what we like. I liked early Elvis, not Los Vegas Elvis, We like what we Like.

MJ and Beatles had wide appeal causing people to faint

Connor just ended trash taste right there.

As a black dude, I know that Taylor is popular. But most of us don't really listen to her music. It's not made for me either.