BIG shoutout to the two creators who helped me out and did sections for the video! Shivam and Dhruv's socials are linked in the description 😎

Every community out there has a form of elitism like this. Ive been a part of the gaming community, and people sh*t talk about the characters or games you play. I even met a guy on tinder who insulted me because i played an xpox360. My dad is a musician and frequents musical equipment forums, and people on there talk down to others if they have equipment not up to par on their standards. People this suck the fun out of everything, and they must be miserable people irl. I just stay out of any big community, and sometimes look in from afar to see what kind of dumpster fire is happening.

Elitism in the manga community have almost soured plenty of good manga either due to hype, or the fanbase. I almost dont want to say Berserk is my favorite manga, because that comes with a whole stereotype at this point. Not to mention the gatekeeping. Like...bruh 😔

Sweaty weirdos don't like that I didn't read Berserk in the correct order? Stay mad 🤷‍♂️ (But fr do gatekeep)

The note about how these are mainly teenagers who perpetuate elitism is such an important point. We were all like this at a certain point as teens, and of course we would be. Your teen years are you desperately trying to figure out your identity in relation to other people rather than yourself, which leads to clinging onto fandoms and elitism. A way to feel popular and wanted even if you’re not in the broader sense & reject ‘normie’ shit they still want attention and to feel superior. Luckily most seem to grow out of it, but for the adults who still do that shit it’s arrested development.

great vid!!

I haven't watched anime since 2014, during that time I've always saw some random people on the internet that get too worked up over a international TV show and while i haven't watched absolutely NO anime since then it seems to have only gotten worse for the fans of such, i remember getting crap for quit watching it because people thought I was a "normie" It's just not my thing anymore and i don't see any appeal or hype to random cartoons and the tribalism that comes with it. Either way weeaboos are dumb and I rather watch a Roman Reigns promo than a full season of One Piece ✌

Crazy to see the shift. My generation was the first to have anime hit the US in the late 90s early 00s. I was picked on for reading it and it was considered niche lmao. Now it’s so main stream what would be considered nerds when I was growing up are the bullies themselves who funnily enough don’t seem to be aware that liking anime now a days is like being a fan of any main stream form of media & doesn’t make you special. It’s the same issue with the commercialization & popularity with comic books. Just a rehashed version of “oh yeah? Name every album.” But more cringe, the elitism has always existed it’s just on a larger scale now.

Lol I've been waiting for someone to talk abt this

Gatekeeping isn't inherently good or bad it's just a tool used to shape a community for example let's say you make a discord server where you want to talk about berserk with other people what you would want to do is make a server and have one of the rules be all discussions must be about berserk this is technically gatekeeping but it's not bad or toxic in fact in this example it's good because it helps berserk fans get to talk to each other find the other so depending on how you gatekeep it can be used for good or evil this you comes when people gate keep people outside of the community that should not be gatekeeped out of the community.

good shit nyukka

Thank you for having me a part of this Kusari! Appreciate it a lot 😄

I personally disagree with a lot of what was said here. Imo Elitism and Gatekeeping aren't as much tied together and neither are the most toxic element of the community. If i had to name the most toxic thing it would be fans on all "levels" choosen a hill to die on, most often a popular shonen. I used to hang out in elitist threads on /a/ where people made fun of each other for putting a shonen, moe or whatever else show on their 3x3 grid but from what i see on social media those aren't the people chosing to engage in a toxic way with young teens just getting into anime. For example look at any twitter post that ask a "best anime that does X" no matter what the question is the majority of comments will be teens naming their favourite shonen while shitting on every other popular shonen mentioned as if it was the worst show ever made. Most of these people don't seem to be too deep into anime or manga outside of 1-2 of the most popular shows of any season but everyone will act like they know their shit. Chainsawman was a good example, the writing seemed to be a love it or hate it thing for a lot of people which is totally fine but the amount of people trying to shit on every aspect of it was super weird. The fact that the show had stupid high production value isn't really up for debate but every day a saw people on twitter posting 2 second clips of slightly awkward looking scenes arguing that the show looked terrible as a whole. I see stuff like this a lot more than so called elitists making fun of children for liking naruto more than tatami galaxy, in fact i mostly have to go out of my way to even find people that will mention those "elitist shows" in public discussions because the current state of the fandom is mostly based on newcomers and teens that stick to the most popular shows while the people actually diving into the depths of the genre have to stick to their inner circles

It seems that your video was more of just an explanation of the problems elitism in hobbies produces by using anime as an example, rather than a deep dive into the history of elitism within the community, and its specific effects that it has had. Gotta say that disappointed me a fair bit, particularly since you called the anime community the most toxic of any community, and since I've seen other hobby communities actively try to get people to kill themselves, or get people fired for their opinions; I was expecting there to be a lot more meat to this video.

Someone actually talking about this subject, thanks for covering this man and this is such a great video in general!!!

Hm, on the whole fixing characters by turning them black thing, I do get the desire for representation, I think being represented is cool even if it's quite minor. But what I think people who are broadly anti representation think isn't really racism but pointing out the irony in a bunch of westerners wanting their values to be adopted by a society as a whole. Representation of an ethnically diverse society wouldn't be a priority for a Japanese artist because that's not the context they live in. I'm fine if you want to personally have an issue with japanese media depictions of stuff and whatnot, but the answer isn't labelling a whole nation racist. (Though that may be my personal politics of personal responsibility and solving things at an individual level speaking, i'll admit.) But in the first place, such political squabbles shouldn't be in the space anyways, it just makes tribes of toxic people, may galvanize people politically and its sad to see culture war brainrot infect every space, especially as a not american that tires of that nonsense.

Tip: A Gestapo member is recognized by the K-On character in his profile

Disagree on the Gatekeeping aspect...partially. Ultimately keeping people out or letting people in is going to alienate fans, no way around it. The difference in the two however is preservation, ensuring the product doesn't get infested with disease. Undertale in 2015 was a humble indie game that took the world by storm and garnered a lot of praise. Undertale in 2023 while seen as somewhat positive, has a lot of embarrassing fandom aspects that are inescapable and crept in. The reason for this is a lot of crazy people came in, there was no gatekeeping to tell these clowns to tone it down or fuck off, and it morphed into a Frankenstein monster on par with Rick and Morty and My Little Pony. Nothing Toby Fox could do, no indie creator can be prepared for this overnight success and he's still anxious about Delta Rune to this day Contrast this with an equally contentious property like Sonic the Hedgehog. It has a generally negative reputation, but that's largely due to declining quality and the obsessive fans who don't take the criticism well. While not ideal, the brow beating of the general public has segregated the more embarrassing stuff like Chris Chan and such away from infecting the core product. Sure Sega will talk smack online or include a Sonichu t-shirt in Forces, but they largely ignore stuff like that in favor of propping up stuff like Mania, Comics, Remixes, Skits, and other more well received stuff. In a way, the fan projects are rejuvenating this product whose best days are largely behind it and that's because Sega is more hands on with their community, they don't let the problem actors taint everything If you don't believe me, look up Sonic the Hedgehog and Undertale in the search results. Sonic had two weird results out of 50, largely just reviews and discussion for games and the movies. Undertale had a good 20, with a lot of cursed animations and creepy clickbait next to the music and walkthroughs I get it, everyone has to start somewhere, but it's about how you start. Professional Wrestlers are expected to show a code of conduct/respect when breaking into the business, if they don't they will get buried, hazed, and other vile shit that is not done out of joy, but to illustrate a point. One of the first communities I joined was Newgrounds back around 2005 and I was a kid in middle school with too much energy who spammed threads and such and got rightly chided and told to chill the fuck out. I got DMs, I got warnings, I got ridiculed, and plenty more, but it got the message across and once I mellowed out a bit things got much better and discussions were mostly fruitful All that said, if I had a choice between gatekeeping chucklefucks that want to make a Steins;Gate movie with the same mentality as Death Note 2017 and Cowboy Bebop on Netflix or risking some freaks saying I'm not being inclusive or welcoming, I'm taking the first one. Differing opinions are welcome, diluting and ravaging the product/community due to not reeling crazy people in is not.

i watched ur daneil larson doco 2 days ago watched the techinal breakdown today and watching this haha this channel is doing crazy keep up the great work. you gonna blow up !!!!

6:03 o cmon that one is funny jsjs just to be sure, are you from the united states?

Even in 2023 people are just rehashing problems that have been around forever and will never leave. Plus just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t mean elitism and subs are just better

I wouldn't call myself an anime or manga elitist but I would say I have a much broader and refined understanding of my own tastes. I can't lie, I don't hold most anime opinions in any regard whatsoever, less so with manga. I've read manga and watched anime since the 2000s and I can safely say most opinions in most discussions on any topic are trash, this doesn't stop applying when we're discussing anime. Whilst I don't think someone who swirls a wine glass and talks about evangelion and monster has much if anything to offer me in a discussion about most series it's the same for someone who got into anime in the last few years. I don't think they shouldn't be able to express their opinions if they are fresh in the community but I also don't think they should expect them to get much traction. In pretty much any field seniority tends to give more insight and people will give it weight in regards to what someone is saying it's the inverse for when you're a novice. That being said just because someone has watched anime for a long period of time that doesn't then mean their opinion is worth their salt anyway, what it feels like you're engaging with is the broadest scope of discussions on one of the broadest and least substantial platforms for a meaningful discussion a la insta, tiktok and twitter. I think a youtube video essay can have just as bad takes but given the format they'll at least have to substantiate some form of argument rather than making a claim with no backing. It looks like you got dragged into the swamp of these toxic discussions but honestly I think continuing in your own path is fine. If you're gonna post hot takes I don't know what to tell you, they're meant to incense people and get a response so don't be surprised at that. If you have seasoned people saying you're too fresh to have good opinions, make them substantiate their opinions or substantiate your own or don't engage at all. You'd already found a nice lane and were cruising down it.

thank you for including me in this bro, going to watch the full video tonight at the cottage w/ my buddies 🙏🖤

yes sir its here time to see what bro cooked up

Thanks for covering this. As a woman I felt kind of chased out of the anime/video game/comics fandom, now that I'm older I realize just how *_extremely_* messed up manga and anime can be, especially to women and minorities.

I’ll never understand anime elitism. Just because you think your taste in anime is superior than others doesn’t make you better than anyone. At the end of the day it is just a piece of fiction and provides no benefits to our lives both physically, mentally or financially. And it’s not like you produced that piece of fiction to begin with.

I'm somewhat of an elitist myself and I probably will never stop because I've seen this happen multiple times in fan bases as they become popular and it always happens it's like a curse that you can predict. Something becomes popular it's attracting new fans, new fans attract parasites, parasites drain the life of creators, creators become weaker or leave, parasites look for a new host, majority of fans run away only leaving behind a small group of creators and fans who if they're lucky can we build something much more resilient. Parasites can be fans, companies or suits they are people who come to a fanbase and demand change for many different reasons, and when they can't get anything out of the creators anymore they run away looking for a new host.

Great vid, but you got very repetitive in the segment around 31:10 or so in. You don't provide further evidence in your conclusion, you do it in your early argument. Going over it again and again in detail instead of wrapping it up is redundant. Besides that small criticism, it was an exceptional argument for the positivity we need, and I subbed.

I really don’t like it when people bite newcomers. It just creates this problem but also turns away potential fans. Plus I do remember the feeling alone in interests so yeah it does hurt to see that.

To me, elitism is when gatekeeping goes too far. Striking a balance between offering a space to discuss things about the hobby you like & keeping out bad faith actors is very difficult. It is very easy to look down on someone just for liking something you don't or not liking something that you do, & that's where the elitism comes in. Anime is no exception to this.

Life lesson: People have different tastes and you have to respect that. The moment someone says you're "taste is trash because it's different than my taste" disregard them and just remember they're the idiot for trying to say what you like is hot garbage because bot opinion and nerds who are general losers. Sincerely, an unashamed Fairy Tail fan, who is tired of being labelled as "Trash Taste" just because I like a show that bots mass flag to please their One piece fanboy youtubers/Snobs.

It's funny when people determine one's value as a person by how many anime they've seen/what anime they watch. It's sad to see but I've seen it a lot.

All a bunch of unnecessary drama and stress for people who want to enjoy their favorite animé and manga and is just as bad as any other communities who let elitism and gatekeeping persist. Same reasons why I left the Smash community and the game altogether. As for animé/manga itself, I just don't engage in conversation unless is with friends and people I know who are also watching and respect each other's opinion without having to resort to vitriol. So easy to have some empathy and common sense, but sadly many people didn't get that memo and much rather want to be radioactive waste on the internet.

I dont think most people know how to recognize this sort of behavior, let alone know what to do with it. These people are the type to put themselves over others, and that's not what you do when going into ANY fandom or series. They deserve all the criticism that comes to them. Even if you dont agree with what someone says about a certain series, dont try your harest to change their mind and you dont have to engage with said opinion. One shouldnt elevate agreeing statements to their favorite series; Where's the balance? Everyone has the right to voice whatever they think but the better you can articulate the pros and cons without belitting others, the better. Other words, dont be spamming "Seinen >>> Shounen", "One Piece/AOT/YYH/DBZ is Peak fiction", "Sub >>>>>>>>>> Dub". Dont be that guy, and dont flip out if someone argued better than you.

Knúsari translate to a hugger in Icelandic.

I think elitist are only a problem when they are disrespectful about it I think it's fine for some people to think that some anime are objectively better than others because I think there is truth to that when it comes to things like a plot holes and stuff like that there can be objective flaws in anime it doesn't mean you have to not like the anime but I wouldn't blame someone for having a list of anime that they think is objectively the best and highly recommend as long as they're respectful about it.

This same issue is very much present in music artist's fandoms. Nobody talks about it though. Like nobody at all.

take a shot everytime he says elitist 😎 no but fr this topic is very important!! as a girl who is interested in josei and shojo mangas/animes i constantly feel belittled as only liking “girly” or unserious content. regardless of the fact that those very same types of content talk about an array of serious topics and experiences.

I agree with your viewpoint about gatekeeping and anime fan behavior towards newcomers, but you have a misconception about anime elitism. What you're describing is just the bad apple of the general anime community. Starting with the definition, Anime elitists are those anime viewers who think anime needs to have standards. There's no specific demographic, and anime elitism is not a phase. I know people who are anime elitists in their 30s. They see anime as a form of storytelling rather than a consumer product. The elitist usually wants things that are good in terms of plot, character, and generally an anime that is thought-provoking. They actually hated all this otaku and anime consumer behavior. They also hate character archetypes, repetitive plots (generally Isekai, Shounen and Moe), and waifu things. Also, the pictures you showed of anime fans holding Dakimakura and marrying anime characters are the things they hated the most. I think you made a mistake by taking definitions from the dictionary to understand cultural issues. A lot of cultural things have this kind of definition issue because people usually just create their own definition. If you want to understand cultural things, you need to know someone within those communities(elitist). The problem of people attacking other preferences is more about people's interactions on the internet.

I find it interesting that you almost exclusively used clips from new anime, like less than a decade old, and nearly all mainstream To me, "community" is a derogatory term, and I don't seek the "anime community." You will never please everyone, so just be you instead I also find it interesting that you flat out stated the big three as including Bleach instead of Dragonball

I just started watching (but mostly reading) anime and manga more often lately, and I’ve always felt like this kind of stuff has been making me shy away from the mediums. People can be really weird about stuff they like and don’t like, and get super judgy over it. I would think that people would just like that other people may enjoy things that they do, and be ok with the fact that some people don’t

Do you think it would be good to gatekeep elitist out of the anime community?

The only people who complain about gatekeeping are those the gate is meant to keep out. :)

I can agree with the points you guys have since elitism is a big problem especially with some youtubers such as the bleeding edge for example.

Ngl these are the reasons I left the community and started to distance myself from watching/reading. I always got made fun of in high school. I’m so happy to be back. Thanks for this vid

As a artist I dealt with one side be like you draw underaged characters despite their adults or the other side expects you be the greatest artist with great technique skills from their mother wound also have family of genius who great artist of their time. Thank you for being civilized and respectful.

The anime community is getting toxic more every year almost makes me not want to interact with others because if you have a different opinion you’re instantly called an idiot because you think differently. Like if I think Berserk is ok and not a 10/10 I wouldn’t doubt the community would call me an idiot or a casual that only loves basic stories in shounen. ( Which doesn’t even make sense 😂) Don’t even get me started on the elitist on animation 🤦🏾‍♂️. The animation can be a little bit off or take a different approach and people will complain even with knowing how little animators get paid. It’s BS.

Gatekeeping is good.

Thank God most anime fans aren't like this.

My opinion of Elitism in anime and manga in general is "congratulations, you're wasting your time, energy and mental health gatekeeping a cartoon you don't even own" Like, it's fine to like a manga/anime, but how are you an elite in obsessing over and defending a series and bashing other series?