A modern notation for modern day: ↖️⬆️↗️ 👊💪🥊 ⬅️🚫➡️ 🦶🦵🦿 ↙️⬇️↘️ Hadoken: ⬇️↘️➡️👊 Tatsu: ⬇️↙️⬅️ 🦶 Gold Lewis Input: ⬅️↖️⬆️↗️➡️

I will never forget the time when Sajam was teaching Sf6 to boxbox, and when he explained out loud that dp motion is forward, down, down-forward, boxbox inputted forward, down, down, forward.

I've always considered numpad notation to be the easier "read/write" notation, and traditional notation to be the easier spoken one. Cuz saying "41236" aloud is a lot more of a mouthful than just "half circle forward" or "hcf."

For 2XKO's tweet specifically, there's a perfect outcome: Write one tweet the way they did, then underneath, throw in a "or if you prefer numpad notation" translation as a reply Sorted

"You don't have access to the emoji keyboard on PC" 🤔Oh really ? Press Windows + dot and be amazed

FGC has a whole language

I prefer the old notation, but sometimes it just isn't what you want. What annoys me is when I see someone trying to help a new player get into fighting games, and they don't stop bringing up numpad notation, when it's REALLY not what a new player should be focused on. I have seen a few people get completely pushed away by this.

as a natively spanish speaking person leaming in a native spanish speaking country, saying "dos tres seis P" is a lot easier and faster than "cuarto de circulo hacia adelante", and jump buttons you can just say "salto X". but thankfully "jump" is much eassier to understand than "quarter circle forward", especially to a non english speaking person. they ask you what the j in j.D means and you say "salto en ingles" and they instantly get it. its also much, much faster to write and say.

I will say, your point about it being difficult to get people to change is absolutely on point. I once read a comment somewhere said something to the effect of "if 15 different standard systems of notation and someone tries to unify everyone under a system that is a compromise of all of them, you end up with 16 different standard systems." Anyway l, I personally think that each has it's place. But let's be honest l, if it was easier to type arrows we probably wouldn't be having this debate.

As someone who writes wiki pages on mizzumi. The arrow emoji method terrifies me!

7:46 as someone who's not a native english speaker and started playing fighting games pretty recently I'd say that seeig "qcf" is as confusing as seeing "236". Like both took me a while of adjusting until i could recognize them at a glace. But the advatage of numap notation is that whenever i see a motion i never seen before (happened to me with guile's super 3 in sf6) it's easier to figure out what it is since it's supposed to be a representation of the motion and not an abreviation. Ofc my experience isn't universal and I may as well be an outlier, but i thought i'd throw my hat into the ring. Anyway, great video as always!

I will say, Goldlewis players don't say 47896, just 486 with the understanding the corners are assumed. So 268H, 684H becomes much cleaner imo

Numpad for sharing tech, traditional for face-to-face conversations (except command normals ...). One thing you could have mentioned is how commentators have some kind of influence on how people go about their notation. Stuff like 2C rolls of the tongue while special moves are mentioned by name, usually.

numpad notation in tekken would look like a math problem

I immediately knew Numpad Notation wasn't the key when I played Tekken and realize that buttons are referred to as numbers, with the reason why mainly had to be with the fact that there's 100 moves from *Each* character, "Down-Forward 1" slides off the tongue better than "3,Left Punch", and the whole notation have been referred to that for 2 decades and there's no use changing it.

I think emoji notation might be the best. You could even replace jumping action to ⏫ and a holding direct to 🔼 while the normal up is ⬆️. So a random combo could look like this: ◀️➡️MP - ⏫LP - ⏫MP - ⬇️↘️➡️MK - ⏬MK - 🔽⬆️HK

I really don't get why people get SO mad when discussing it. If you're deep into fighting games, it takes like 2 seconds to look at a different notation type and translate what it actually means. And if you are brand new to fighting games, they are all equally hard/annoying to learn anyway so it doesn't really matter which you learn first. People like to just be mad i guess

as a dyslexic person, numpad notation absolutely mindfucks me

It's funny you bring up imperial and metric units. The US technically is a metric using country, the government switched in 1975. The problem is the American people are a very stubborn people and just refused to go along with it.

being a new player to fgc and a casual, my opinion is that emoji is the best way to describe ⬇↘➡, or the pictures of the motion that the games uses. Sometime ago, i was trying to learn how to combo with a bb character and my god, seeing all that numbers in the screen made me understand nothing

So many people loud and proud about not being able to understand more than one simple type of notation is alarming. Like admitting you can only remember half the alphabet.

For me qcf means quarter circle towards the opponent. Language wise it side swaps.

As a Tekken player (we dont use numpad) the numpad notation just hurts my brain. If Im going somewhere with a friend and we have to turn left I dont fucking tell them lets go 4! I can read numpad notation but its not instant in my brain, it takes me time to process it, its something to train, whilist the directional notation is intuitive. I understand that its to communicate globally but still, its not something I enjoy.

There's one thing that wasn't mentioned in this video about numpad notation's downsides that affects me quite a lot when I try to read it to learn combos or tech online. I prefer to play on the right side of the screen. Numpad notation often favours 6 as the forward direction and 4 as the backward direction, and for me that's always reverse to what I'm comfortable with when I'm in training mode. This affects forward, backward, and all of the diagonals associated with forward and backward as well when I'm trying to learn someone's combo in the training room. Of course I'm comfortable playing my favourite fighting games on both sides, but I do prefer setting myself on the right in training mode while learning new things, and for that reason numpad notation always gives my brain a spin when I try to read it. I always just end up swapping to left side and learning the combo that way, but it's not my preferred side, therefore I have a gripe against it. For most players, this is probably more a nitpick than a serious point of contention, but we right-side-players are out there and numpad notation doesn't care about the way we see things! Okay that's my piece. Thanks for reading :)

I still say we go with compass directions: n, s, e, w, ne, nw, se, sw

I do think numpad is the least worst notation. Unicode arrows with letters would probably be the ideal, but that is a pain to type out so we don't. Worst notation is definitely oldschool Street Fighter notation. "Towards Forward" no shut up just type 6MK or just say Forward Medium Kick. Second picking up the lingo is just a part of becoming part of a subculture. Games, sport, artforms, whatever, it all has a lingo that you will have to pick up to become a part of it and I don't think that's inherently bad.

Numpad notation is the most "solution in need of a problem" thing I've ever seen. Social mdia communication and machine translation grew up together. Literally no one was having translation issues except maybe on really obscure , old, games. In a lot of cases you have the benefit of literally using arrows which you can generate (and copy and paste) in microsoft word, or having the input dispaly in game. More than that, numpad notation is still a system you have to learn. There is no world where "D=down" is harder than "2=down" Especially in a world where a non-trivial amount people don't even have a true 10 key on their keyboard. Ps I'm not mad, use whatever you like. Just know that it will still have to be translated and that both systems are basically arbitrary.

The account translating into Japanese is pretty weird because even if you assume that a Japanese reader wouldn't be able to get "j.H" they could have written "空中" which I believe is the standard term you'd see in Japanese games for moves executed in the air. One other potential weakness for numpad is that it doesn't account for mirroring, which is very uncommon but not impossible to see in a combo or blockstring. If it involves a sideswap, how do you notate from there? If just say there's a rekka that is inputted with 236 and the second hit crosses up, when you write that in numpad to you write "236+P, 236+P, 236+P" or "236+P, 236+P, 214+P"? That is, the first way to write it has your character's position update mid-notation and the second is written with a frame of observing the input from where the character was when starting the move. In this fringe case, there's no ambiguity between writing "qcf" since that notation accounts for your position relative to the opponent. But it is a fringe case and numpad is generally better overall.

As a resident of Numpadia, one understated weakness of the system is when you take it to verbal conversations. Most of the time it is the same or higher amount of effort to say the same inputs, not to mention that when I see 236 written I know what those numbers are, but if I hear a person say two three six, I might have no idea what those words you're saying mean if I don't know your language so we're back to square ↙.

I’ve been playing fighting games for like a year and I cannot read numpad I’d rather have it written out and just write the special. I’d take Crouching Heavy -> Light Knuckle -> EX Knuckle -> Heavy Knuckle -> Level 3 over 2HP -> 214LP - 214EX -> 214HP -> 236236P when reading Luke combos. If anything the numbers make it more confusing.

People are sleeping on the fact that there are literally ascii characters for most of the directions. You could use those instead of either traditional or numpad notation. Just look at how much easier these are to parse and there are many more to choose from: UP = ↑, DOWN = ↓, QCF =↪ (youtube changes these to emojis but in ascii they're q.circle), QCB =↩ (youtube changes these to emojis but in ascii they're q.circle), FCF = ⟲, FCB = ⟳, DRAGON PUNCH = ↯ or Z JUMP-BCK = ↸, JUMP-FWD =⭷, DOUBLE-FWD = ⇉, DOUBLE-BCK = ⇇, TOP SCF = ↷, TOP SCB = ↶

Numpad notation always felt like it was from before we had easy access to emojis. ⬇️↘️➡️ is just as language crossing and way more intuitive. The issue is keyboards and it's even disconnected from how you say it irl.

You can tell numpad notation is much older than we give it credit for, since it came about during the old internet forum days where the computer was the only way to communicate with others online. If numpad notation were to have come about during the smartphone era, it'd probably be flipped telephone style and I don't think I want to live in that alternate universe

Compass notation believer

While it's typically considered a new form of notation over alternatives, numpad notation has been around for decades. The earliest recorded example I can find is a Guilty Gear movelist on GameFAQs from 1998, by "hyphz". My understanding is that it started on Japanese chat boards, since it was just easier to type inputs with the numpad (which already saw frequent use for directional inputs in home computer games at the time), over the alternative of learning the codes to input directional arrows, or memorizing jargon.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe MK is another game franchise that doesn’t use numpad because they use 1,2,3,4 as the attack buttons.

Maybe its just because I'm a wordcel, and not a shape-rotator, but every time someone uses numpad notation, I HAVE to look down at the numpad on my keyboard. I know the layout of the numpad on keyboard is completely standard and unchanging, but there are lots of keypads that people use everyday (like when they buy stuff with a debit card), and those come in different layouts. So when someone tells me numpad notation, the motion being referenced never just jumps into my mind. Contrast this to when someone says DP-motion, or QCF, I know instantly what you're talking about, you only have to hear it once, ask someone what it means, and you'll know it forever. I've been here for years and numpad notation has never clicked for me, and I hear it all the time. Its enough of a mental block for me that I generally don't even bother with a game if the game itself describes combos with numpad notation (like in combo trials), its just too annoying to deal with. EDIT: Forgot to add, if a game is using simple non-motion inputs like 2XKO it, then numpad notation is more understandable, cause its just one number, and its way easier to grok.

This is what kof does great, in the training mode they show the arrows for the motion. That way you just follow the arrows than having to learn terms to do inputs. Im more inclined towards the QCF type of terms rather than the numbers. Id be able to learn easier if someone just told me the motion instead of a bunch of number

4:32 if you reeeally wanna use traditional here's what i came up with half circle forward (hcf)/half circle back (hcb) = 41236/63214 up half circle forward (uhcf)/up half circle back (uhcb) = 47896/69874 forward half circle up (fhcu)/forward half circle down (fhcd) = 23698/89632 back half circle up (bhcu)/back half circle down (bhcd) = 21478/87412 *bonus for chicken wing (**5:45**)* [kick], chicken wing/half circle up-forward, [kick] (hcuf, k) = 412369k

The 5280 feet in a mile figure makes a lot of sense if you know that's exactly the number of juri mains online rn.

The last part with the emojis is funny because I'm in a small fighting game community that thends to get a lot of new fighting game players so I've taken to using the directional emotes if I don't recognise someone incase they might be brand new and not know letter or numpad notation. It also helps that the discord has the ingame directional inputs as emotes including the quarter circle ones so I only need to put one emote for those, and it is instantly recognisable for the players.

The old phone (cell phone) have the numpad notation, and everytime I go to bank ATM, same numpad notation. So its super easy for me to adapt and learn how to describe fighting game input with numpad notation.

Why is this numpad notation discourse even a thing?

down to forward. charge back forward, qcf. Works just fine for me.

Thanks JM for mentioning the computer thing. When I first saw numpad notation, I thought, why is this like a cell phone. Then I realized, wait, it's a calculator. Many people were like, no, it's a numpad on a computer, but like, calculators are also like that. It's a PC thing. Sure, people are supposed to know it, but I still don't believe it's so simple to understand when first seeing it.

Numpad only works in a written form and just really clunky when spoken in person. for written combos and discussion it saves space and makes most thing more legible, but in person if you say some number sequence I have to the imagine a whole numpad just to realise you mean quarter circle back which you should have said since we're sitting next to each other and that's more intuitive

Playing sf gear and tekken I've learned both, but I still prefer letters. It just makes more sense. Numpad is not as intuitive without looking at the kb

I still can't get used to numpad notation. I don't have a numpad on my keyboard and haven't had one for like over 10 years. It's hard for me to recognize the difference between 4 and 6 and 623 is much harder for me to grasp than saying "it's dp motion". I'm just old and numpad is probably the future of notation, but that old ass Fei Long combo written as it is with Fierce and Roundhouse is just so smooth for my brain to process.

As someone who mainly uses a laptop that doesn't have a numpad, I don't have the layout of a numpad dedicated to memory. So whenever motion inputs are listed using numpad notations, I have no idea which numbers represent what direction they're supposed to be. So listing inputs as down or forward is easier for me to understand. But I can understand that numpad notations are easier to type out. Come to think of it, why are keyboard numpads used to write out motion inputs? Don't keyboard players use the WASD keys?

I really like (D)hcf+HP for a half circle forward, starting with down.

I agree that arrows are kinda the best of both worlds, the only issue is that it's a pain to write which just makes it impractical for most situations.

In my command move list videos and combo tutorials I always put the arrows and the strength 💪 of the kicks/punches and I try to put as much as I can so everyone understand it.

the actual best way to write it is with little arrows and arcs showing the patterns, for me. but, you can't just type those, or, not easily

Arrow notation is the only other language-agnostic notation other than numpad notation. And you DO have "easy" access to emojis on Windows (you have to pick from an emoji table, but you can search for emoji and they will go in your "recently used" list when you use it). Hit Win Key + period. For Mac users (just in case!), hit Control + Cmd + Spacebar.

Before even watching i think the best system is the regualar, qcf for quarter circle forward, is better for motion inputs but the numpad notation is better for command normals and certain directs to press in a combo (I.e jump forward instead of neutral jump)

It takes me a while to translate numpad notation to what i understand, so inprefer the traditional method. But arrows are royalty in a world of serfs

When I was a beginner getting into fighting games, I could easily understand Tekken and the NRS games because of their notation and how the numbers were referred to the attack buttons which is why I stuck with those games for the longest. Then when it came to trying out different games that primarily used numpad notation(eg. Guilty Gear, Soul Calibur, Blazblue) I would always have to think about the numbers in my head or trace the notation with my stick when I saw a combo text just like that. Now its super natural for me to read numpad notation which of course came with time, but I completely understand why it can be a struggle for some new players or people in general

Yeah first time i Heard someone casually start talking with numbers for a combo i got so confused like what buttons are you using for this

Using the emoji arrows is actually smart lol

When taking notes about combos I tend to switch back and forth between traditional and numpad notations. Traditional notation is not hard to understand, and I believe that if you don't know it then it's up to you to take 10 mins to be less ignorant and learn it.

I use a chromebook, and I just learned that I can access emojis by pressing Search, Shift and Space bar at the same time, so now I can access the arrow emojis. And I'm honestly for using arrow emojis when typing out motion inputs because it's incredibly easy to read and is universal in all languages.

Emoji gang here. I've tried to learn numpad notation but my dyslexia makes it pretty fucking hard.

Ngl, the last time i saw notation like this was when i played DBFZ. I kinda missed these. It was much easier for me to memorize combos like this.

The emoji approach is the best one for the general public. I can't bother to learn numpad notation and it took me a few days to actually learn qcf, dp and stuff. So if I saw the arrows I would instantly recognize even without knowing anything prior.

Return to string of arrows in the manual, Capcom joystick drawings were a mistake

Emojis would be optimal especially for the Japanese tweet cause an intern cant fuck that up

Ok so I've been reading a lot of the replies and it seems that a lot of people don't understand the main reasons why numpad is commonly used and that is: - Input precision - Shorter to write in most cases - Bypasses language barrier The alternatives I've seen people mention just don't have all 3 of those benefits except for one: - (qcf) = This has the first two benefits but lacks the last one "bypasses language barrier". If you show this to someone who doesn't speak any English they aren't going to understand and it'll take about the same amount of time to teach them as it would to teach them numpad notation. - (d-df-f) = This has the first and technically second benefit but it lacks the third benefit same as the previous method. - (⬇↘➡) = This one is (imo) the best method I've seen as a proper substitute to numpad as it has all 3 benefits and is easy to understand at first glance, only problem is that it could be annoying to type in some cases if you don't have access to emojis. Personally, I've learned numpad and prefer it but if people really hate it that much I would go with the arrow emojis and fight for that to be standardized.

I remember when notation was basically game-specific and we just dealt with it and moved on with our lives. Finding an explanation has never been difficult. Ever. Literally, the easier it gets, the less people bother trying at all.

I think the best option would be for a toggle or having both preferably, I like how for the ikemen/mugen community for command lists they use glyphs with all sorts of arrow shapes and button specific ones, by typing in something like HCF_X or something

Hey man. I was looking at some of your old vids, like from 7 years ago and I noticed your communication style has improved a ton. Did you undergo some sort of training there? Was it just practice? Thanks if you read this comment. 🙂

i think icon nonation nowadays is the easiest to read and traditional notation for speaking

How do younuse numpad when a direction has to held like in SoulCalibur or Tekken?

I prefer Mega Man II boss select notation. Flash Man, Crash Man, Wood Man to execute a hadoken

instead of "236" or "214" is it really that hard to understand Quarter circle? half circle forward or back? Z-motion DP?

I simply use both. There are motions that register to more easily when i think of them traditionally, and there are others that exist in my mind only in numpad. And when i am playing it actually affects me, using the notation i am more comfortable with makes everything easier, even if sometimes it's a mix of both things

Ive always hated numpad notations. If youre a console player, use a laptop or just forget which location each number is, then you're fucked. Especially when some people already struggle with left/right without doing an L with their hand. It feels unnecessarily tedious when D for down, just makes more sense than 2 for down. And with the language barrier thing, im not sure about that, people in other languages would still gotta translate the numbers anyway so it has the exact same issues there. Basically only being even useful if you use the numpad language every single day until it just becomes second nature. I mean, in game and official tweets should just copy and paste literal arrow emojis. But when it comes to everyone else, iunno, feels unnecessary tedious...which i shouldn't be surprised from the FGC!

Having grown up using GameFaqs in the 90s to learn movesets for fighters, before sites like Shoryuken were available, traditional "QCF" notation was the first FGC language I learned. It was jarring/confusing the first time I saw an FAQ written in numpad notation. However, it didn't take long to learn another "language", and I definitely saw advantages (ex. easier to understand Fei Long's chicken wing attack, which use to be written as "HCF, UF + P", which can be confusing for timing the inputs properly together.). Ultimately, I still prefer QCF notation as my brain interprets it more intuitively, whereas I have to pause to picture the numpad briefly when reading moves noted that way. It would be nice if the arrow emojis were easier to type out though, like alt+2222 for a down arrow, alt+3333 for a df arrow, etc. Then most posts could be quickly written in arrow notation.

for GLD its common to just use three numbers. 684, 486, 426, 624, and so on. I would use HCuF (half circle up forward) for traditional.

Talking I’d say “quarter circle forward” or “half circle back” or whatever. Strive and it’s lovely “Half circle back then forward” motion. But writing I tend to either use arrows or it’s person dependent. In a large group I might write 236 but one on one I’d say qcf. A problem I had with numpad early on was directions, saying “Quarter circle forward” I know it’s forward from the character, saying “236” I think “roll the stick to the right” and that doesn’t work as P2. I got over that but something that might trip people up. Edit: forgot to add numpad messed me up when finding NRS game and Tekken combos which refer to buttons by number at times.

Ive been hearing friends use numpad notation for a while when talking about fighting games, though never heard the term itself before. So up until this video it always just sounded like they just said random numbers and letters and i had no idea what was going on lol.

Glad someone said this, when I'm in a vc with someone and they say 214 or 41236 I have to stop and think for a second on what that even is (it's not that I don't know what it is it's just not natural to hear it spoken aloud)

I disagree on num pad not being intuitive. As someone who uses it a lot for work. I have to type out long strings of numbers and I can do it without looking at the keys. So the notation clicks pretty easily for me. I’m sure if you don’t use one it’s gonna take longer to pick up, but it’s no different than learning anything else.

I think for project L traditional notation is probably more appropriate. Numpad is great for motion inputs, especially for unusual motions, while in project L the most complex motion is down down, so you don't really get much benefit from it. Like down-forward is always 3, and can't really be mixed up with 26. Also in a real scenario you would probably write the combo in a more compact way like dH > jc > jLMH > jS1... etc. There is basically no difference between traditional notation and numpad there.

I always found it interesting that people who play both Street Fighter and Guilty Gear have to switch between saying "crouching medium kick" or "forward heavy punch" in Street Fighter and saying "2K" or "6P" in Guilty Gear. It's almost as if the two games are played in two different languages.

Absolutely, I use arrow emojies in my SF6 notes all the time (Windows Key + .). Admittedly bumbers are quicker to type but much more readable.

Im pretty sure that in modern times most languages use keyboards with a roman alphabet and have a system to convert them into the various scripts for practicality. Though even then I think the best solution would be for someone to create a twitter plugin that converts text of any notation into "emojis" of the stick motion, kind of like betterttv, so qcf and 236 both create a ⤴️ (obviously not that emoji but one that signifies the motion)

That suggestion about adding arrows seems a bit easier for me to learn and understand a combo

It looks like you were trying to type my zip code

I'd consifer myself a casual fighting game enjoyer, but I've been playing for a while. I can't tell you where I've picked up the lingo but traditional works better for me. The numpad notation makes sense but I have to actively think about it before I do it. And I don't play fighters enough to solidify numpad notation.

Arrows are the only real universal signs. Every one should use them ↑↓→←

JM putting citizens of numpadia on blast!😂

I think if people said Down C instead of 2C in like an anime game I'd actually tweak out It's so much easier to say the numbers. Just 2 minutes of explanation saves 3 minutes of extra words.

When you said you had a better idea for sharing combos, I had minimal hopes But honestly... Thats insanely smart the only thing I can knock about it is that it would be flat out impossible to read if your device doesn't have the emojis but I think that would be rare enough that we don't care, maybe charge moves would be harder to show but idk I think the emoji is the correct decision

use the neutral cardinal directions up, down, back, fwd,= N,S,W,E, = 8,2,4,6,. back/down = 1 = SW

Been playing since sf4 and have now learned that numbers to describe inputs was a thing

I just call the inputs as I see them. Quarter circle forward or, in Goldlewis's case, half circle up.

10:00 - Pardon me, sir. Those are Freedom Units™. Only the most awesomest, coolest, and most FREEEST nations use them. /eagle screeching/ /faux patriotism intensifies/

Numpad + A,B,C,D notation would work perfectly for Tekken. As it already does for SoulCalibur. Also, it's not hard to learn - once you understand what the point of numpad notation is, you don't need to memorize anything.

I always differentiate it by game and by region. Not everyone gets numpad notation same goes for directional notation e.g.: QCF. So its better to understand both sides of the coin here and see from their perspective why is it like that in their region? Is it easier for them to understand? Does it make sense straight away how the movement and moves work based off of that notation. Cause personally speaking, i've been immeresed in a lot of fighting games like GG where in my region they used numpad, wherein tekken they used directional like QCF or maybe in SF where the notations i'm familiar with is a bit of a shortcut notation. My point here is to each his own on how they wll introduce the notation of that game to players and maybe make some adjustments based on region, because historically not everyone uses the same notation even if its the same game

I use *WASD* so seeing the usage of numpad notations is even more confusing. A fireball is just SD+P. A Tatsu is just SA+K. Shoryu DSD+P. SDSA+P for some supers. Like.. it's so much simpler than 236 cause you always have to visualize the whole numpad (more mental load lol) and WASD is used in so many other games so new non-fighting game players can easily tell what input to do. All without the need to explain over and over again. It's the numpad, just see the numpad. More so, most people barely use the numpad in thier daily life lol