Yoshinori Kitase retracts his statement on Rinoa/Ultimecia fan theory being debunked

Рет қаралды 6,737

Жыл бұрын

I translated this clip where Kitase wanted to clear up a previous answer he gave where he had stated that the Final Fantasy VIII Rinoa/Ultimecia fan theory was false.
This comes from a Japanese livestream event back in 2018 for Dissidia Final Fantasy NT which can be found here:
• ＜8月16日＞光は我らとともにある [DFF...
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@ArJay1688 Жыл бұрын

Hmmm... They're putting a lot of easter eggs on their recent characterization of Ultimecia so that just means they're really open to the idea. It gives Rinoa - Ultimecia like a Jean Grey - Dark Phoenix arc feel.

@sonicfan2403 6 ай бұрын

That's one way to look at it.

@cpilfold420 Жыл бұрын

I don't think the world was ready for this theory. Because the reality is that it's very very dark. And would seem to imply an endless loop of sorts, with ultimecia passing on her power to edea in a never ending cycle. It's probably better for the general audience that they lightened the tone, made it more genetic and have it a happy ending. That being said, Rinoa being ultimecia, Squall being griefer, her GF and knight who stayed with her even when she became the enemy of the world. It's probably one of the best stories in any game ever. It's a shame the developers were too scared to tell it. But perhaps if they remake it, this will become reality. Thing is, you shouldn't expect them to admit something that was scrapped last minute. Why would they? Other than that, the symbolism and connections are pretty close to undeniable. And make more sense any other theory of the game.

@mrbabluep Жыл бұрын

They carried the theme over to FFX. Isn't that what the fayth are to their summoners?

@Llucius1 10 ай бұрын

Ultimecia thought she went back to kill her deadly rival , until she realize she killed herself. With love , Rinoa never becomes Ultimecia , Ultimecia realized this fact before her death , so she ask Squall to recall his memory of his childhood , so that she could create an alternative timeline where they met long before everything happens. And so , the endless loop ends , yet a new start begin. This actually bridge up to FF9 way better in this way.

@cpilfold420 10 ай бұрын

@@Llucius1 I'm not sure what to make of this right now, I'll get back to you on this one lol. I think if it gets remade though, they're gonna double down on the theory. It's just so captivating and the symbolism just supports the idea on so many levels. The normal purported storyline makes way less sense and actually takes away from the game.

@Llucius1 10 ай бұрын

@@cpilfold420 Yea , I love the thinking and exploring stuff , and Riona being Ultimecia really make sense somehow on so much details. Actually , right now I just recalled that my best friend said the same thing after he finished this game back then almost 20 years ago , he said he believed that Riona is the good side of Ultimecia , and they split into two just somehow.

@straydogfreedom7795 6 ай бұрын

@@Llucius1 That's exactly the interpretation I had as well but you laid it out much better than I was going to. The story does loop around but then it progresses. The Ultimecia we see is the Rinoa who got lost along the way whereas the Rinoa at the end is one who is able to overcome it.

@mr.megaboss7965 Жыл бұрын

Finally… you can’t have that many coincidences in the plot, and not have this be a valid theory. Thank you for posting

@robinkron1685 8 ай бұрын

Rinoa contacts Cid that founded Garden with his wife Edea, Edea gets possessed by Ultimecia, Ultimecia wants to destroy SeeD, If SeeD are destroyed the Ice Strike Stabbing at the Parade would Not take place since they would not be sent there(Hence no SeeD. Edea/Ultimecia stabs/kills Squall, Rinoa witnesses it, she needs Ellone to cast Time Compression to get her farther in the Past than she naturally&magically can do on Her Own. Finding Ellone boosts that very same said magic to Squall's era, effectively get beaten in the end and kneeling down to Edea giving Edea Ultimecia's power. Squall warns Edea of what coming shall, Edea warns Squall and the party that Ultimecia is from the Future ( She tells this to a Past Squall since Future Squall told Her< this. It is a loop Rinoa messed up and likely want to correct. You see sorrow more in Ultimecia than anger. The story is about 1 thing. The Promise (Saving Squall is what came out of it) Rinoa contacts Balamb Garden to SAVE Squall NOT herself. If he dies at the parade she can cast Time Compression in the future which is Now in the Past. Don't think she would cast Time Compression to save herself when her Motivation was to Save Squall (She's the only Sorceress at her Time alive). Rinoa contacts Squall, Squall defeats Edea that is possessed by Ultimecia that is Rinoa in the Future because Squall Died in that Past. It is Squall that warns Edea of Everything in the end. ( The Ending of the game is the Beginning of Ultimecias terror). That's how Edea knew Ultimecia is from the Future. The Squall seen in the end of the game at the Orphanage where Ultimecia kneels down is where and How and Why Edea got her power in the First and Last place. But it still started with Rinoa losing Squall. Rinoa is Ultimecia 100% Nothing would happen if Rinoa did not contact Cid..

@AnyLastWords_ Ай бұрын

Honestly this is the most unique timefuckery story ever

@Pikachu-qr4yb Жыл бұрын

It was always cannon in my head anyways. It adds so much more intrigue and drama to the story

@TangensROH 9 ай бұрын

Personally i treat this theory more as a meme. Like a source for the "It's me Austin" joke.

@featherless2524 5 ай бұрын

Out of three authors, one said they didn’t put or see it in the plot. It is an exciting theory though, that they might incorporate when they rewrite the story for the remake. I personally think it’s her backstory since the game didn’t offer us any other and might have been the intention of one of the other two authors. Yet they kept it very subtle to not tarnish Rinoa’s good image.

@mrskye08 2 ай бұрын

Wow didn't know ot was retracted. The theory still lives.

@eduardosuasnabar3347 Жыл бұрын

at last! they are preparing the way for a remake, it will be far away more interesting than the original one, i can't wait to see it

@reibitto Жыл бұрын

If you asked me years ago I would've probably said, "There's no way canonize the theory in a remake" but now I'm not so sure. They've shown they're not afraid to make controversial changes in remakes, so anything is possible. Though I guess it also depends on who would lead the project. The thing is, I don't know where FF8 would be on their list of games to make. I kind of expect SE to make FFX-3 before an FF8 Remake, but who knows really.

@grace6855 Жыл бұрын

Thanks so much for uploading this❤

@bwareist Жыл бұрын

To be honest it would make the story alot more interesting if it was true. 8 honestly is the game that needs a "Remake" the most

@hangguy209 Жыл бұрын

Yea a remake with the R = U theory would be extraordinary. Quite possibly the best story in FF. It gives Ultimecia so much more meaning rather than being a cheap boss. It makes Ultimecia more tragic and would involve a never ending cycle of time paradox.

@theerealatm Жыл бұрын

@@hangguy209 so true. Adding this, Hyne backstory, Adel backstory, more laguna lore (pun on last name lol), more story on the orphanage.... Would totally just make this the best ff story (depth wise).... I always say... Ff7 was just practice for ff8.

@hangguy209 Жыл бұрын

@@theerealatm yea having the R = U would make the ending make sense. I always interpreted Squall tearing up as he sees images of Rinoa and Ultimecia. The image of Rinoa's suit shattering in space is the realization of Squall that he should've let Rinoa die in space now that he realizes she will become Ultimecia. Now he can't turn back on Rinoa and will dedicate his life to protecting Rinoa and ultimately becoming Griever.

@cpilfold420 Жыл бұрын

@@hangguy209 it's definitely true. It was just extremely advanced, so many layers, so much symbolism, probably too much for the general audience. That's why it was probably scrapped at some point and they went with a more genetic plotline. But by that point, the underlying meaning and symbolism built within the core essence of the game remained.

@hangguy209 Жыл бұрын

@@cpilfold420 makes more sense than to just throw in a cheap villain in there

@mf_________ 5 ай бұрын

Rinoa = Ultimecia in my head canon. God himself could try to tell me otherwise and I will try to explain to him why hes wrong.

@GodoMatrix 8 ай бұрын

I've never heard of this before such an interesting theory to one of my favorites FF games.

@rasdan1192 8 ай бұрын

Rinoa is Ultimecia is something Nomura would do. After playing a lot of his games, other than KH.

@PaulFalcon 7 ай бұрын

THANK YOU

@slimynaut Ай бұрын

To me its pretty obvious the theory is true. It makes the story actually good.

@fudauematsu 2 ай бұрын

Where's the full video? Its an interesting interview

@reibitto 2 ай бұрын

It was during a livestream for Dissidia Final Fantasy NT in 2018. The link to the original stream is in the video description.

@micshaz 5 ай бұрын

Things that this does not explain to me is, the timeline clearing up and ultimecia clearly depicted with a foreign/(probably far future) accent; she is mentioned as being VERY far in the future (post "ellone junction") and clearly dies and possesses edea in the past somehow. I'd say if it is Rinoa it's a possessed version from either the corrupted and compressed timeline. Plausibly the only way she can physically fight in the partially squashed timeline. Or plausibly the time machine would not take her further back than to where adult rinoa is. Or she could have just killed everyone and looted squalls gf and is using it as a taunt but eh. In short, i at most think the way the theory is commonly laid out can be partially true. In reality it's probably just ambiguous for ambiguity's sake though

@Llucius1 10 ай бұрын

Make FF8 into a movie !

@gianniszafeiridis6139 7 ай бұрын

yes sir!

@FindleyMusician 2 ай бұрын

And have David Lynch direct it!

@lestaari-eh6qv Жыл бұрын

What if it turns out that Ultimecia is the daughter of Rinoa and Squall? Like squall who is always disturbed by the existence of the Laguna. In the end everything is just a time loop that can stop if Rinoa and Squall are not together.

@dimitrescu4873 9 ай бұрын

ty Rinoa is Ultimecia XD (i want that to be true)

@theerealatm Жыл бұрын

If they remake ff8... A real remake... Im. Sure they'd toy with this more than "Squall is Dead" theory.

@reibitto Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I would think so too. The Rinoa/Ultimecia theory has been around since shortly after the game came out and a ton of fans came to that conclusion independently on their own. It's been popular in Japan too. The "Squall is dead" theory however was unknown in Japan until just a couple of years ago (a popular Japanese fan theory KZfaqr picked it up and made a video on it). That theory is definitely more "out there". But I do know some people really love the idea regardless.

@theerealatm Жыл бұрын

@@reibitto I just hope they don't butcher the story like in ff7 remake. It ain't necessary to change the story too much . Just add to it. Add to laguna. Add to Hyne. Add to ultimecia. Add to Adel. Maybe add to raijin and fujin. Talk about the orphanage more. There's so much to add to these parts of the story. Add to ellone. Add to Norg. Include trabia more. All that. Don't introduce the villain 1 hour into the game like ff7 remake did. Keep the villains a mystery. Talk about the GFs and memory loss more. I swear they cannot mess it up. Ff8 remake will turn square into the powerhouse it was when it was squaresoft.

@reibitto Жыл бұрын

@@theerealatm Yeah, learning that the Laguna sections of the game were meant to be about 50% of the game but had to get cut makes me curious how much different it would have been if they had the time to add everything they were planning. I wonder if they would go back and explore that more in a potential remake. I know how important editing is and that adding more and more to the story isn't always necessarily better, but that depends entirely how they go about it. As long as it doesn't kill pacing and fleshes out the story, I'd welcome it. I had my issues with how they went about FF7R too (more with the story changes not the gameplay). I'm not a purist at all and I actually welcomed big changes. Just not the kind of changes they went with 😅 Like I would loved if they went in harder with the environmentalist themes, Shinra, and the whole ecoterrorist angle along with the morality of that (especially with how these topics are more relevant now than ever and FF7 OG was already commenting on them 25+ years ago). I'd prefer if they saved Sephiroth for later parts. Especially considering how well done his build up was in the original. But of course Sephiroth is too popular and I understand why they felt they couldn't release a part without him in it (even if I disagree with the decision). Oh well... I guess that's the major downside of doing a remake in multiple parts. It kind of forces compromises that you otherwise wouldn't have needed to make.

@egateqa1351 Жыл бұрын

@@theerealatm I feel the 7 time travel stuff with the 7 remake should’ve been in a 8 remake.

@theerealatm 10 ай бұрын

@@egateqa1351for sure

@ArquelAdonis 5 ай бұрын

I need a remake announcement with this theory being cannon. Also, adding the Laguna part that was skipped by CD space limitations.

@AA-db9cb 9 ай бұрын

So is she Ultemecia or not?

@MaximillianGreil 9 ай бұрын

unclear. It's still up in the air

@masterjembatan2489 8 ай бұрын

The Answer Depends Squal Fate In Ending. He Still alive or die. After Battle With Ultimecia, Rinoa save Squall from lost in Time Comphresion, and nobody know squal still alive or already die (because he not eat or drink). If you see corectly, in FF VIII ending credit, Squal not show. If Squal die, 99% Rinoa Is Ultimecia because Rinoa will Revenge of Squal Dead.

@FinalFantasy8911debater 5 ай бұрын

No she isn't. The theory is silly and makes FF8 worse than it already is.

@FinalFantasy8911debater 5 ай бұрын

@@masterjembatan2489 Squall is alive and Rinoa is NOT Ultimecia. FF8 is a silly, simple game, Ultimecia is just an untapped character from the far future, that's it.

@yelnats24 Жыл бұрын

Kitase: there is no direct evidence that they were intended to be the same person. Kitase further confirmed that there is no Rinoa = Ultimecia in the script. He just did not rule it out because he did not know whether the other writers have hidden intention that he is unaware of. The director of FFVIII didn't even know about such theory for 18 years... that said a lot. 🤣 Anyway, I am going to mention this in the wikia.

@yelnats24 Жыл бұрын

@Minicrom not the developer story? I don't care about fanon.

@yelnats24 Жыл бұрын

@Minicrom Kitase retracted it because he did not know the original intention of the other writers when they wrote separately before combining their work into the final script. However, Kitase also made clear that whatever the original intention was, R=U is not in the final unified script (canon story). There is a posibility that the other writer had R=U in mind, but even if it is true, it was abandoned and did not make it into the final script (canon story).

@whirled_peas 7 ай бұрын

@@yelnats24why cling to what’s canon when it’s clearly an imperfect story. Art is not objective to start with, the whole point of it is to prompt us to think and make connections, to be subjective

@yelnats24 7 ай бұрын

@@whirled_peas why cling to non-canon heavily-debunked fan theory that would create more loophole which make it more imperfect?

@Harrier_DuBois 5 ай бұрын

@@yelnats24 What is the reason for Greiver in the final boss fight? If not some kind of connection to Rinoa? Griever defends the sorceress, as Squall does Rinoa.

@rredix Жыл бұрын

Reneged

@TheBalancedFan Жыл бұрын

FF8 is my favorite final fantasy so if they did make it true I think it would ruin FF8 in my opinion. There's a lot of plot holes and I just don't like it. I would love for a story about how Ultemecia becomes a villain with her own back story. Also Nomura has severe writing flaws that sometimes irk me.

@reibitto Жыл бұрын

I can definitely understand that perspective. As someone who didn't like a lot of the changes they made in FF7R (I wanted them to make changes, just not THOSE changes), I'm not sure I'd be that excited if they announced an FF8 Remake one day. I don't even like the idea of remakes over new FFs to begin with. Having said that, if they absolutely have to remake one, I do think FF8 is one of the few FFs that has some potential given how much and what was cut due to time constraints (particularly the Laguna sections). People often point out that the reason FF8 has so many of these fan theories is because they were dissatisfied with the base story. So they make up a bunch of "what if" scenarios that make the story better in their eyes. Even those really out there ones like the "Squall is dead" theory. Personally I never understood the appeal of that one because it's literally the "it was all just a dream" trope which I thought was universally accepted as one of the most dissatisfying things a writer could do 😅 I feel there's at least something there with the Rinoa=Ultimecia theory. But I can understand people not liking that idea because it would change the themes of the game quite a bit, particularly the themes of love. It would be a more cynical take on love in my opinion. Which could still work... it's just that it would be very different from what the game presents itself as.

@TheBalancedFan Жыл бұрын

@@reibitto Laguna was supposed to have his own world map in the past. I would love a prequel of FF8 and same for FFX. Both fathers have interesting stories.

@reibitto Жыл бұрын

@@TheBalancedFan They've mentioned multiple times how they really want to make FFX-3, but personally I can't get too excited about that. If they're going to revisit FFX, I'd rather they make a prequel like you mentioned. One where you play as Auron, Braska, and Jecht. The only issue is that it's very difficult to pull off a prequel. I can't think of many games that have done it well (Yakuza 0 is the one exception that comes to mind). Especially one where you already know all the story beats + conclusion with no ambiguity whatsoever. And there's not a lot of room to add anything new considering it's pilgrimage with a set path. Maybe they can come up with something, but it definitely wouldn't be easy. The character interactions would be fun to see for sure though. We got a taste of that with the Jecht spheres.

@FinalFantasy8911debater 5 ай бұрын

I agree with you. I VERY much dislike the squall is dead theory and rinoa/ulitimecia theory. BOTH make FF8 worse than it already is.

@TheBalancedFan 5 ай бұрын

@FinalFantasy8911debater I do think FF8 is still a great game. The only flaw is you have to acquire the status defense and status attack manually. Other than that the game is very good.

@enid9911 5 ай бұрын

I always wished Squall would have married Irvine but this theory is cool too.

@ZeredHeizien Жыл бұрын

"As far as the final manuscript goes there wasn't anything in there about Rinoa and Ultimecia being the same person" Case closed.

@reibitto Жыл бұрын

It does put an end to that being the definitive answer for sure. At most it's a concept that Nojima and/or Nomura wanted to explore but didn't get the chance to, so they just added a cheeky reference to it and left it at that. With what's actually in the game, I can't see it being anything more than that. The real question for me is what they would do with a potential FF8 Remake. Would they revisit the idea? I mean the R=U theory is clearly on their minds as shown by the fact that people in SE give have had internal debates on it before. Considering 1:1 remakes are creatively bankrupt and not something I can imagine most writers/artists/etc. happy doing, big changes are pretty much inevitable. What those changes would be though is anybody's guess. This is why I'd rather they just work on making brand new FF games. But with the number of fans calling for more remakes, maybe that's an unpopular opinion.

@ZeredHeizien Жыл бұрын

@@reibitto It is the definitive answer though. The final manuscript had nothing about Rinoa being Ultimecia and neither does the game itself. A writer possibly wanting it to happen is irrelevant. When you radically change the story it stops being a remake and becomes it's own alternate universe setting. If they want to ruin the FF8 story in a similar way that they ruined the FF7 story with Remake they're free to do so. I'll probably play it but it will never be an acceptable substitute for the original.

@reibitto Жыл бұрын

@@ZeredHeizien I don't really disagree. I meant "definitive" as in it's clear all three of them didn't sit down and decide to write with the R=U idea in mind. There's no room for anyone arguing for that anymore. Authorial intent is a whole other can of worms. And it gets even more complicated when three different authors are involved. Probably not worth going down that road though. I don't think I could do that justice anyway. Anyway, this is why I always appreciate it when authors refuse to comment after the fact and let fans interpret things how they like. I think Kitase has slowly realized this himself over the years. He used to outright debunk things left and right in interviews (seriously, he's debunked like 7 popular fan theories in the past). He's since softened his stance on that. And him going out of his way to make this statement is part of that realization I think. Even if he knows R=U was never a thing Nojima/Nomura intended (I mean he could always just ask them if he hasn't already... it's not like it would be hard), he seems to now prefer leaving these kinds of things open to interpretation. Honestly it's probably better that way, even if admittedly it is kind of annoying whenever a completely senseless fan theory gets a lot of traction that makes you think, "wtf... did we even play the same game!?"

@ZeredHeizien Жыл бұрын

@@reibitto Authorial intent only matters insofar as to what is actually there in the final product. Every game, book, and movie to ever exist has had numerous changes during pre-production and even during production. There's better evidence to support that Tifa was a prostitute at the Honey Bee Inn than there is R=U. At least the Honey Bee Inn cut content was found. I'd argue that R=U was never even a thought by any of the writers period since if it was and it ended up a cut/unused plot point there is virtually no chance that it wasn't brought up among the rest of the writers. At the absolute most it was potentially a thought one writer had that he discarded before even bringing it up to the other writers.

@TokyoLove78 Жыл бұрын

@@reibitto no: he answered that on interview cause Japanese people are very respectful for people belief. So it's say 'maybe someone had that in mind' but no : like he said , nothing said in the manuscript they are connected. And the game don't show that either. Case closed.

@josephgregorowicz5135 4 ай бұрын

Why are people so gung-ho about this theory? It was debunked. Even in this video, while he "corrected" what he said in the original video, it was clear that if any of the three had this in mind, it was NOT him. And if it was, it was something thrown in as a hint or easter egg to something else. Im sorry, but the theory in and of itself makes no sense.

@TokyoLove78 Жыл бұрын

I always thought that theory was really stupid cause there is no suggestions in the game to let think that. This theory came from this statement:" what if Rinoa and Ultimecia are the same person" ( and add all things to show a connection.)

@cpilfold420 Жыл бұрын

There are MANY suggestions The amount of evidence and symbolism in the game proving this theory is substantial.

@JK-qv5wm 10 ай бұрын

You surely not pay enough attention to the game if you think so.

@FinalFantasy8911debater 5 ай бұрын

@@JK-qv5wm The theory is implying depth where there actually is no depth. FF8 is a silly, simple story full of big plot holes. The theory is made up in an attempt to make the game more interesting. How could Rinoa survive to become Ultimecia anyway?