It sucks being older and wanting to sound feminine. I'm doing the best I can.

You definitely aren't alone there! Sometime I'll make a video on this. We want to listen for quality not our preference for a quality when trying at first. c:

Hi Viv!!! It depends on the range of sensory experience you apply the label 'brightness' to. We've opted for this term because it's a very common perceptual description for students when we ask them to describe/label this change. Brightness is usually a less specific range of quality. People often identify changes in vocal size, weight, pitch, pronunciation, breathiness, and more as contributing to changes in brightness. That said, it really depends on your own experience! If brightness fits this change in sound super distinctly for you, there's nothing wrong with naming it as such!

@@ffionngrigsby So, you're saying "sharpness" instead of "brightness"? They mean the same thing?

@@vivianriver6450 I'm identifying the range of quality demonstrated in the video as sharpness. You can call it whatever else you'd like to

yeah, no kidding

Sharpness is relative to the phonemic category! Generally, you shouldn't go so sharp or so dull that it changes the word you're saying. I'm also not sure if sharpness is universally gendered? I've had students tell me it feels very relevant in their other languages/dialects though.

Aw yay, I'm so glad!! 🖤

You could do it that way! It's a pretty common approach. You're not limited to one path or the other. You can spend some of your practice time working toward one quality and some of your practice time working toward another.

Yay, thank you! 😊

Thanks Petra! 🖤

t t t t t t t t

I tend to be pretty spread with my lip position regardless of whether I'm using a more dull or more sharp quality. If you watch more closely, you might notice a more consistent change in my mouth, which is protrusion or retraction of the lips, related to duller or sharper qualities respectively. That said, you can create the bulk of these changes without shifting the position of your lips at all!

I love Gurgi!!! I actually didn't know there was a book series. Do you think it's worth reading?

Hm... It's a bit of a hefty discussion for a KZfaq comment, so I apologize for not going super in-depth here. The very first thing I'd say is that there is no moral obligation to voice train. It has to be something you want for you. Either directly because you want or need a particular quality of voice, or indirectly because you want or need to be able to navigate social reality in ways afforded by using a particular quality of voice. Second, I'd highlight that our social reality is ultimately grounded in people's perception of us. There probably was not a way for Louis Armstrong to feasibly change the way the people around him perceived him racially. For trans people, many of us have the option to change enough qualities of ourselves that we may become perceived as belonging to another sex category, different from before, to the people around us (and ourselves, even). Whether you want to pursue that as a goal or not, doing so is your prerogative and nobody else's. You are not obligated to suffer assimilation, nor are you obligated to suffer the refusal to assimilate. As trans people, we all make choices about the struggles we take on. Being true to your history can be done without disrespecting your present, future, and nature as a constantly changing and dynamic thing. Do what you feel is right.

You could make the assimilation argument about literally every aspect of transitioning, people do what makes them comfortable. Sometimes the reason their voice makes them uncomfortable is because they don't like how it sounds to them, sometimes they don't like the effect that it has on the way they get perceived societally speaking. But either way it's done for their own self-interest. Not training your voice isn't going to somehow change society, it's just a personal choice.

​@@ffionngrigsbySorry I wrote my reply as a result of a. waking up in the middle of the night from deep sleep and then watching your video b. I have been fighting this issue in my head for forty years. I have done work on my voice before. But the last time I had a go at it was back with a speech therapist in the early nineties with audio cassettes. c. Your colleague actually cracked the nut of it, in another video, I just trying to get my hide bound addled brain to get past this. d. When I have met people looking to transition I have always said to change their voice because whilist it can take ages to achieve, just like electrolysis the results are worth it. I wish we had laser/led back when I first got electrolysis, we didn't even have blended diathermy e. Because I've been a Gay rights activist since before the Straights got control & excluded Bisexuality , Trans & Fetish back in the mid eighties with their Lesbian & Gay ××××, I was part of the team that moved World Pride to LGBT back in the mid nineties when Transgender meant challenging 'traditional' gender assumptions. So L, B, T, Fetish & Disability Rights politics have been in my blood for 40 plus years. f. Because the brightest & finest minds on this stuff is you lot. Besides I only of average intelligence by transexual standards I scored about 135 in my written and 145 in my oral. So nothing special by transexual standards. g. If you want I can take this over to patreon, where I have been s supported for about 4 years. My deepest apologies I I just wasn't thinking clearly about it in the middle of the night. Thanks to anyone answering my question. I really need to get this stupid bad code out of my head. So thanks for helping. And because this is unsafe space I can't give my real name, and please don't say it if you do know my real name. But if you were involved in the set up for things like Press For Change you'll know who I am. Simarily anyone from TransVox and TG Youth. I was part of the team that kept the community support going when Press for Change forked the activist community. I was part of a bunch of other initiatives like Transexual Menace and other activist groups like Lesbian Avengers, OutRage and DAN. And I ran a bunch of BiCons whilst being a Dyke. Thanks for all the help.

​@@Sauce787I don't know, the personal is political and if you look at my other reply, I have changed the world already. What I have seen countless times is that our leaders who have presented a more acceptable voice have been more effective in their leadership. I know that all of us are some of the toughest humans in existance, the stuff we have survived would have killed almost all humans, and it kills plenty of us! Our average lifespan is in the midish twenties.

But I am sorry that I am derailing a video about a very important subject. Sorry for being a Batty old hag.

Such a blast from the past huh??

That's so sweet, thank you!! I really hope it helps 🖤🖤🖤

😭 omg that's so sweet, ty

They're one of the most common phonemes for people to struggle with! I'm so glad it's helpful 🖤

Maybe I should start saying "original James Bond" 😭 it's such a useful target!

​@@ffionngrigsbytry High lander, Hunt for red October, Indy's Dad in Raiders, the Rock, League of Extraordinary Adventurers

Oooo, I dunno, I'll ask the team if that's something we can do! It might be a little difficult to identify super specific moments because the explanation scaffolds.

Oooh thanks for that. If it could make me less of a mumbler that would be a huge help.

That's an approach that works really well for a lot of people! Especially if they struggle to practice otherwise. It is possible that you'd reinforce some less-than-perfect behaviors, but it's better to think of those as stepping stones to the ultimate voice quality you want rather than obstacles. If it's safe for you to do, go for it!

this is the approach i did, and i think it worked well for me!

wait this truly is something people do? damn i should start then lol thanks

they're not really the same phoneme, they're two separate ones, /ʃ/ and /ɕ/ if I remember correctly that's why this "sharpness" is important there, because it allows to differentiate between separate phonemes

Yes!! I love that you noticed this, and I probably ought to have mentioned it in the video. People who are multilingual are usually better at modulating sharpness initially because they have relevant experience like this, and can even recognize categorical (phonemic) difference between different degrees of sharpness! Like @dimanyak373 points out, it's crucial to remember that sharpness is relative to the phonemic category. So while I may have demonstrated a singular axis of sharpness for an English phonetic schema, I could very much have transgressed a phonemic boundary for other phonetic schemata.

@@ffionngrigsby Off-topic but I love your name! Love to see a bit of Welsh in the wild

I'm so glad to hear that!!! I hope you have so much fun exploring sharpness! 🖤

Niiiice 😎

Haha! Юур рашн из грэйт!

Thanks! I hope you have a lot of fun exploring with sharpness 😊

real?! hi miraaaaa 🖤

@@ffionngrigsby Hi dwahlingggg <3