Failing RIFA Safety Capacitors!
23:56
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@surgingcircuits6955
@surgingcircuits6955 7 сағат бұрын
So many gems in this video! Thanks for sharing knowledge and expertise. Well done.
@basspig
@basspig 2 күн бұрын
Is this similar to the MEP803A regulator?
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench Күн бұрын
No, the MEP803A is different.
@basspig
@basspig 23 сағат бұрын
@@EriksElectronicsWorkbench I'll dig around in the TMs and see if I can find a schematic. I'm curious as to how it works. It does work VERY well. Voltage remains stable from no load to the 85% load of my solar battery charging system.
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench 21 сағат бұрын
@@basspig They are good gen sets. The regulator is a more traditional design and does not use the mag amp or anything too unusual. The A1 regulator module just has AC power input from the generator's output, voltage adjust input, sense input, and the output to the field. There is a field flash input directly to the field windings from the DC control circuits that gets the generator voltage to build up when the set is started.
@basspig
@basspig 19 сағат бұрын
@@EriksElectronicsWorkbench I went looking for the documentation, but only found a diagram of the engine starting circuits. I trust it's somewhat simpler than this. I can say with confidence that it works well. No droop from no load to the 85% load of my two EG4 Chargeverters.
@johnverg6809
@johnverg6809 2 күн бұрын
Hi Erik, You have explained everything in great detail in your video and you would be the best Electronic Tech on this planet. Thank you very much for all your time.
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench Күн бұрын
Thank you for the nice compliment and for watching!
@christopherspiro9857
@christopherspiro9857 4 күн бұрын
Bad design? They only offer a 2 year warranty.
@christopherspiro9857
@christopherspiro9857 4 күн бұрын
Bad design? They only offer a 2 year warranty.
@greengrayradio1394
@greengrayradio1394 7 күн бұрын
Hi from Norway! From your first name, are you of Scandinavian origin? That is a very versatile, and complicated power source, must have been very expensive new. Nice!
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench 5 күн бұрын
Hi and thanks for watching the video. I have German ancestors. Yes the AC power source was quite expensive new!
@MrXenon1977
@MrXenon1977 8 күн бұрын
Great video, just one remark: Y-capacitors are often even more safety critical than you described. Nearly every class-II SMPS uses Y-capacitors between the primary and secondary side of the transformer to surpress EMI. If a Y-capacitor fails in a class-I device - like you have shown in your sketch - then usually the failure current is going through PE and the RCI or even the circuit breaker trips. But if a Y-capacitor in a class-II device fails, then you have mains voltage directly on an output that usually is not earthed - e.g. on the output of your smartphone charger. An electric shock is more or less unavoidable in that case.
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench 8 күн бұрын
Thanks for watching. The Y class capacitor is supposed to fail to an open circuit for protection but of course these RIFA caps fail in the worst possible way. There is a good article on class-I and II power supply differences here www.emea.lambda.tdk.com/il/KB/What-is-the-difference-between-Class-I-and-Class-II-power-supplies.pdf
@MrXenon1977
@MrXenon1977 7 күн бұрын
@@EriksElectronicsWorkbenchThanks a lot for the Appnote - it really is a great resource of knowledge! What I wanted to say is that the more expensive class-I devices generally have branded and (except maybe the old RIFAs) high-quality Y-caps, though their shorting mostly only leads to a tripped breaker. The tons of dirt-cheap consumer SMPS, like chargers or other wall warts, directly endanger the life of the user. That's why, in my opinion, if we talk about dangerous Y-caps, we should never forget the class-II devices.
@ronwade2206
@ronwade2206 8 күн бұрын
I worked on an Oscilloscope in high school that had 48 tubes besides the crt. Tektronics made it Motorola donated it. I found out why Dad told me to use the high voltage probe for voltages over 300 volts. Ouch! 😅
@casio912
@casio912 9 күн бұрын
Terrible device?
@dkeithcollins
@dkeithcollins 11 күн бұрын
Great Video! Thanks for sharing your knowledge! Is that fuse that is mounted across the selector switch factory or an after-market repair/modification?
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench 11 күн бұрын
Thanks for watching! The fuse is factory installed in that position across the switch.
@abdurrahmandemir2038
@abdurrahmandemir2038 12 күн бұрын
Wow. Module is quite quality
@richardcarl6901
@richardcarl6901 13 күн бұрын
Great video and well done trouble shooting!
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench 13 күн бұрын
Thank you!
@coloradowilderness3139
@coloradowilderness3139 13 күн бұрын
Great Erik .
@coloradowilderness3139
@coloradowilderness3139 13 күн бұрын
Really very helpful diagnosis !
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench 13 күн бұрын
Glad you found the video helpful!
@garretr4488
@garretr4488 14 күн бұрын
Great diagnosis! Lambda made some great supplies
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench 14 күн бұрын
Thanks and yes they sure did make some quality heavy duty power supplies.
@MrLinuxone
@MrLinuxone 14 күн бұрын
Excellent !, I love your videos, thanks .
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench 14 күн бұрын
Thanks for watching and glad you are enjoying my videos!
@sebastian_harnisch
@sebastian_harnisch 14 күн бұрын
Thank you for another great video! One minor note for someone trying to replicate the high frequency AC voltage measurement: The 34465A is specified for up to 300kHz, but most hand-held DMMs are much more limited, e. g. Fluke 179: 1kHz, Fluke 87V: 20 kHz, Brymen BM789: 100 kHz. An isolated oscilloscope (consider max. voltage) or a HV differential probe can help here. One more thing: Did you happen to measure the waveform/peak voltage at this cap afterwards? Would give some peace of mind that the selected capacitor with its voltage rating is properly chosen. (I'm pretty confident it is...)
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench 13 күн бұрын
Thanks for watching! Yes you need to know the limits of your test equipment. I did check the voltage and waveform across the ceramic surface mount capacitor. It is a 94 KHz very narrow spike waveform with the spikes going to about 5 volts and it is riding on 3 volts DC. Note this is voltage across the cap, not referenced to ground, measured with a Fluke 199C isolated ground scopemeter.
@grahambambrook313
@grahambambrook313 16 күн бұрын
Hi Eric, interesting and informative video; thanks. I see the logic in arranging the items as you do on your bench and indeed i used to have mine configured in the same order but, quite frankly, I couldn't put up with the noise. Since moving house, I now have the space to move the 'lab', such that it is, from a very drafty, cold garage to a nice warm ground floor room in the house. Whilst setting up, I decided I needed to do something about the 'growling' noise emanating from my toroidal iso-transformer: it really is quite offensive and not the sort of thing one would want next to their ear for any extended period!! I it put the first in the chain originally since it is a 2kVA unit and my mechanical engineer's logic suggested it would be better to put the 50VA variable behind it. Anyway, long story short, when I started the new setup I reversed the positions and had the variac first in chain. Lo & behold, the horrendous 'growling' ceased. It does return to a degree when I give it full mains voltage but below about 90-95% full power it is almost unnoticeable now, though I do not have the bulbs in circuit yet. They have always been last in the chain. Any ideas as to what the cause may be? I surfed the 'net' for hours trying to find clues as to what aggitates the toroid enough to make it angry, though without noticeable success. It does seem voltage dependent but I am at a loss with this one. Any advice or suggestions would be much appreciated as I do not like being 'growled' at by 240 of His Majesty's finest volts. Keep up the good work. 👨‍🎓
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench 16 күн бұрын
Hi, my guess is the impedance or matching between the transformers is not ideal and may be setting up some distortion on the AC waveform making the transformer growl or hum. And some transformers are just more prone to making noises. Even at no load, there is some current between your isolation transformer and variac. A properly sized/rated capacitor across the AC line between transformers (power factor correction) could possibly help correct this but the noise is not damaging to the transformer unless it is so extreme the transformer is running hot (could be indication of other problems too).
@grahambambrook313
@grahambambrook313 16 күн бұрын
@@EriksElectronicsWorkbench Thanks Eric, I'll get the maths hat on and give it some consideration. I guess all the loading it sees at the moment is inductive so there could be something in it. The toroid is double-insulated as it came from an out-door-functions company and has no earth reference at all. Having the variac first also means I can have the earth ground on its metal case connected.
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench 16 күн бұрын
@@grahambambrook313 It seems placing the bulb for current limiting last is the best option (as I show in the video) and the order placement of the transformer and variac is about a toss up with some advantages on each way. Arrange how it works best for you and the components you are using. Yes one transformer driving another is a very inductive load to the first transformer (or variac) although in my own set up I have not had any issues.
@grahambambrook313
@grahambambrook313 15 күн бұрын
@@EriksElectronicsWorkbench 👍
@exdafrianz3939
@exdafrianz3939 16 күн бұрын
Is there a simple analog soft start circuit?😅 plan to use for angle grinder
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench 16 күн бұрын
If you want to limit the inrush current surge a single component can do this, called the NTC Thermistor, you can find them here www.mouser.com/c/circuit-protection/thermistors/ntc-thermistors/ you have to choose the proper resistance and wattage rating among other things. Keep in mind some motors cannot be current limited as they will not start up correctly and will overheat.
@levent8208
@levent8208 18 күн бұрын
Good job Erik ! Imagine measuring 4000 volts with the meter, who does that ? Do you know where these meters are still professionally used ? As someone mentioned in the previous video, they are still available on the market, made where !
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench 18 күн бұрын
Simpson Electric still manufactures them in the USA. Their website is simpsonelectric.com/products/test-equipment/vom-multimeters/ The new production meters top out at 1000 volts AC/DC. That is standard on modern meters and a high voltage probe is needed for over 1000 volts. Regular test probes are never safe over 1000 volts! Analog multimeters are very useful on noisy AC measurements that make digital meters unreadable from gibberish number displays, and for measuring changing voltages that make digital number displays hard to track. The analog meter can give a better understand on the rate of change. These meters do not require battery power, except for ohms, so that can add to reliability.
@levent8208
@levent8208 18 күн бұрын
@@EriksElectronicsWorkbench Thanks for the info, it's really interesting, I didn't know the company was still in business ! I still use analog meters and my favorite it my electronic Simpson really similar to the 260-6XLM on the Simpson's Web site, that I bought used in the 70's, you can inverse polarity no problem and the meter is rather accurate.
@kevinedwards5719
@kevinedwards5719 18 күн бұрын
What are these things used for?
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench 18 күн бұрын
It can generate any AC voltage up to 300 volts so think of it as an electronic version of a variac. Any frequency DC (0 Hz) to 1 KHz so you can test 50 Hz and 400 Hz equipment or check how frequency variation affects a device's performance. Measuring abilities built in so you can monitor performance of a device being tested. Isolated output from main AC line which helps add safety during testing. Clean and stable output waveform for testing sensitive devices that you want to isolate from line fluctuations.
@kevinedwards5719
@kevinedwards5719 18 күн бұрын
@@EriksElectronicsWorkbench how much is used one cost or to refurbish one ?
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench 18 күн бұрын
@@kevinedwards5719 Used checked working $1500 and up. Parts (complete boards) can run into the many hundreds or another thousand if you are trying to repair a unit. Non working or "unknown condition" units can be around $500 which is the description my unit had.
@johnc.4625
@johnc.4625 19 күн бұрын
Thanks!
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench 17 күн бұрын
You're welcome and the donation is appreciated. Thanks :)
@johnc.4625
@johnc.4625 4 күн бұрын
@@EriksElectronicsWorkbench would love a video of you adding a digital meter with a torrid to the dim bulb I’m having a terrible time adding mine. It works but then the limiting function goes away and the mains won’t turn off with the mains switch.
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench 3 күн бұрын
@@johnc.4625 I will consider that as a future topic. From your description, if the current limiting is not functioning the bulb is being bypassed somehow. A voltmeter should only need to be connected across the load (would be the most useful location). Don't try to measure across the bulb or across the mains switch.
@johnc.4625
@johnc.4625 19 күн бұрын
so I assume your secondary stage of the iso transformer has no ground reference , therefore the variac will have no ground reference and neither will the dim bulb and device under test. so besides placing two ground probes on the dut which can cause voltage potential if not in the same place, are their any other vunerabiltys , can yo be shocked by touching the metal casing of the Variac as it is not grounded or something of that sort. thank you.
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench 19 күн бұрын
Yes correct that the transformer secondary does not have a ground reference which is what the "isolation" is referring to. Since the transformer's secondary does not reference either side to ground, if a fault occurs, for example, in the variac making some part of it live to one of the isolated AC lines you would not be shocked because no return path exists from the user through ground and back to the transformer's secondary. This is also why you should not use a ground referenced oscilloscope on the isolation transformer's secondary (on DUT). If you introduce a ground path on any part of the transformer's secondary then yes a shock hazard will exist.
@johnc.4625
@johnc.4625 19 күн бұрын
@@EriksElectronicsWorkbench thank you for the detailed response I really appreciate that.
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench 19 күн бұрын
@@johnc.4625 Happy to help with questions and thanks for the donation. :)
@msouthwe1
@msouthwe1 12 күн бұрын
Could you please clarify what you mean about the ground referenced oscilloscope? Are you suggesting having the oscilloscope connected to an isolated supply and not a grounded mains?
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench 12 күн бұрын
@@msouthwe1 AC mains powered oscilloscopes have the probe ground tied to chassis ground. You should not float an AC mains powered oscilloscope on an isolation transformer as there can still be a shock hazard if you contact a metal part of the scope and part of the circuit you are testing. In situations where the scope ground can't be tied to circuit ground potential the only safe way is to use an isolated ground scope like a Fluke Scopemeter or a differential scope probe.
@robincross4625
@robincross4625 25 күн бұрын
Your 'test cord' has a name. It is called a suicide cord. It should have a fuse wired in it!!
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench 23 күн бұрын
In typical bench testing there are fuses but they are in the variac and also the isolation transformer. There are two fuses on the variac, selectable for the expected load. The devices in this video are just for an example and not used in my regular bench setup.
@AndrewTa530
@AndrewTa530 26 күн бұрын
You only had chan 1 selected on your scope
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench 26 күн бұрын
Both channels were turned on and active. That is shown by both channel traces being displayed. The reason only the Ch 1 indicator light was on is that shows which channel the vertical controls will affect. Notice the scope does not have two sets of vertical controls on the panel.
@g.fortin3228
@g.fortin3228 27 күн бұрын
great video.. I like your variac, mine shows voltage not amps. this is good.. glad to know my setup ( the 4th one) is good.. and I need to check inside the ISO and fix that !
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench 27 күн бұрын
Glad you liked the video and thanks for watching!
@riccitone
@riccitone Ай бұрын
Great video, learned a lot here! Wanted to ask if you've seen this or might have knowledge of whether this has become a common problem with the newer version amps (555se) or if this is pretty well an isolated case? Was admiring and looking into these and then found this video. Thanks!
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench Ай бұрын
The amp's circuit design is based very closely to the 555MkII design and I have not heard of the issues this amp had being a problem in other SE or MKII models. There are some transistors that run quite hot on the main circuit board (this model and previous model) and there is speculation that the heat can lead to problems. I was surprised the SE didn't have heatsinks on those transistors. The noisy transistor is probably an isolated failure. The instability (oscillations) are an easy fix with 4 components if an amp is found to have that problem.
@welderfixer
@welderfixer Ай бұрын
I am a repairman in the welding equipment field and Lincoln Electric used to use the Mag-Amp output control in many of their designs. Simple but not very efficient. Thanks for explaining this generator control system. I also repair a few AC gensets and I have two of my own (10kw and 15kw) that I must repair before use. So many things to fix - so little time. Oh, I'm also a growing audio nut and I have couple power amps that I must repair and use. It's a bit tough learning PCB testing and repair in my late 50's, but so worth while.
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench Ай бұрын
I know how it goes with too much to fix and so little time! Mag-amps are rugged so it makes sense they would be used in welders. I have seen them in gen set engine control governors and DC power supplies for preregulation. I have some audio equipment repair videos so if you have an interest in that equipment check them out. Thanks for watching!
@jamesoberg8912
@jamesoberg8912 Ай бұрын
Does it have Sync and Droop mode?
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench Ай бұрын
It does not have those features, it was not designed to be paralleled with other generator sets.
@knoxpruett1889
@knoxpruett1889 Ай бұрын
Also, if the ohms scales will not stay zeroed or the needle moves when you tap the side of the meter case, replace the big fuse. It has an intermittent connection. This happened to me. I know it is odd, but it really can happen. Save yourself a lot of trouble shooting time!
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench Ай бұрын
Yes I had a similar problem in my Sencore capacitor tester where the fuse went intermittent. Fuse looked ok but had no continuity because the end cap connection broke.
@JohnnyUtah488
@JohnnyUtah488 Ай бұрын
I watch a lot of videos about older electronics, and they often mention RIFA caps in passing but don't elaborate. This was the perfect explanation. Thank you!
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench Ай бұрын
Glad to know you found the video helpful, thanks for watching!
@migsvensurfing6310
@migsvensurfing6310 Ай бұрын
Nice old meter. Love them.
@thompjo76
@thompjo76 Ай бұрын
I’m getting some static in my right channel that almost sounds like it’s getting a radio signal from a router or phone. Curious if this is an issue with my amp? Also where are you located if I can have you look at my amp?
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench Ай бұрын
Have you tried unplugging the inputs on the amp and see if the problem goes away? If so the amp is not the source and the interference is being picked up in the cables or preamp or some other audio component. Any strong radio transmitters nearby? They can induce interference.
@barryballenger7246
@barryballenger7246 Ай бұрын
Thanks Eric for the fine video with tour
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench Ай бұрын
Glad you enjoyed the video, thanks for watching.
@grhinson
@grhinson Ай бұрын
Always good stuff
@MrLinuxone
@MrLinuxone Ай бұрын
Enjoy every much your video, subscribed, will look out for all your future videos, thanks Erik for your excellent work.
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench Ай бұрын
Thanks for subscribing and happy to know you enjoy the content on my channel.
@garywilliam5203
@garywilliam5203 Ай бұрын
Very well done. Thank you
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench Ай бұрын
Thanks for watching!
@RPike-bq3xm
@RPike-bq3xm Ай бұрын
I love these meters too. I was taught on the Simpson but in less than a years time Fluke came out with the 8060A(B) and the company went with that for any new purchases. Reading any common return AC on Airliners made them wig out. For some reason, I don't have that issue anymore.
@ivolol
@ivolol Ай бұрын
330+470 also conveniently adds up to exactly 800. I'd guess most of the resistors have aged up slightly over time, I'd look at ordering new ones (R10, R12, R14, R15) for the next time you need to make a buy from a supplier.
@garywilliam5203
@garywilliam5203 Ай бұрын
I have one of these meters from the 60's still in the box. Where can I find batteries for it?
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench Ай бұрын
This series 4 version and other earlier version models used a standard D cell and four AA's. Later models starting at series 6 and newer used a D cell and 9volt battery.
@uni-byte
@uni-byte Ай бұрын
Thanks for trying to get this meter working again. They are quality instruments and they still have applications today that cannot be handled with DMMs
@RPike-bq3xm
@RPike-bq3xm Ай бұрын
Any examples?
@uni-byte
@uni-byte Ай бұрын
@@RPike-bq3xm Yes, zero EMI emission environments. One in particular I know of was a physics lab conducting experiments to measure the EM emissions from various materials under various conditions. The detection system needed to be calibrated using equipment that had zero EMI emissions, for obvious reasons.
@migsvensurfing6310
@migsvensurfing6310 Ай бұрын
Obviously you don't have much experience in electronics because then you would not ask.
@ac4nl
@ac4nl Ай бұрын
Excellent meter. Still made. I use one all the time. Makes you understand what you're attempting to measure. If you purchase new in 2024 between 550-750 dollars.
@levent8208
@levent8208 18 күн бұрын
Wow, I didn't know that, I found a place where they sell it (ITM) probably made in China ? same quality ? is there a market for that ? I have an old Simpson 303-Xl, still working, I love it.
@ac4nl
@ac4nl 18 күн бұрын
@@levent8208 They are Made in USA. Still a market for them. Several areas still use them. A couple are power monitoring and in EMI free testing environments.
@levent8208
@levent8208 Ай бұрын
This is a classic, they were everywhere !
@MrLinuxone
@MrLinuxone Ай бұрын
Enjoy very much your explanation, glad I found your channel. Hope to see more of your video in the future.
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench Ай бұрын
Thanks for watching and I'm happy to know you enjoy the content on my channel.
@mensaswede4028
@mensaswede4028 Ай бұрын
Imagine designing a device that will sell at retail for thousands of dollars and deciding to use a cheap-ass fan.
@levent8208
@levent8208 Ай бұрын
That's a pretty cool multimeter when was it made ?
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench Ай бұрын
The military service manual is dated January 1967 so these meters were made in the 60's and 70's. Not sure if they built them into the 80's. They were built under contract for the military. There is no date on this unit so I don't know exact date of manufacture.
@levent8208
@levent8208 Ай бұрын
@@EriksElectronicsWorkbench Thank you Erik, it's a very nice instrument, I have myself and old Simpson electronic multimeter I acquired in 1978 or around that date when I was studying electronics, I love it and they are rather accurate.
@levent8208
@levent8208 Ай бұрын
@@EriksElectronicsWorkbench And I have subscribed, I live in Montreal.
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench Ай бұрын
@@levent8208 Simpson makes very nice meters that do last a long time.
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench Ай бұрын
@@levent8208 thanks!
@carlespy7470
@carlespy7470 Ай бұрын
I used to own this preamp a long time ago. It sounded great and I am an Adcom fan. But seeing the inside of this one before you fixed it up leaves me less impressed with the build quality in this instance. The same is not true with my GFA 555 II. Maybe they contracted out the assembly of this preamp?
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench Ай бұрын
I agree the component placement was sloppy. I have worked on several other Adcom devices and they did not have this build issue. Not sure what happened in this case.
@brunolagace1135
@brunolagace1135 Ай бұрын
Nad have the same kind of power demand system.
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench Ай бұрын
Yes NAD and Proton were/are related and shared similar designs.
@Janktzoni
@Janktzoni Ай бұрын
Thanks for this refresh, very clear and well explained! The use of metal boxes and conduits in domestic situations is making me somewhat nervous. The reason is that so many things can go wrong with these and the 'user' cannot safely or visually detect it is wrong or not without measurement equipment and the knowledge on how to use it. I believe the lower metal box itself on the isolation transformer should be earthed too. After all it is a metal box and the internal wiring can come loose and put the box on a dangerous potential. _Only the box_ and NOT the socket, as you correctly point out. (KZfaq police mode on) Constructive criticism: Although you correctly explain that on the analog meter the red scale is applicable for AC, you're actually pointing to the black DC scale multiple times. The AC scale is not completely linear, the first 10% is shorter than on the DC scale. Admitted, this doesn't make a significant difference in this context and I would probably have made the same 'mistake'. (KZfaq police mode off ;-)
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench Ай бұрын
The metal box with the isolation transformer outlets should not be earth grounded. The reason is, suppose a wire comes loose and contacts inside the metal box. And suppose the box were grounded. Now one side of the isolation transformer has a ground reference and a shock hazard exists from the opposite secondary winding end to ground which completely defeats what the isolation transformer was supposed to protect against. With the box not grounded, suppose a wire comes loose and contacts inside the box. A shock would only occur if you touch the metal outlet box and at the same time the opposite secondary winding end which is very unlikely to occur (but of course not impossible). Regular testing of the whole isolation system for such faults is needed and if you prefer a plastic outlet box can be used. I will try to be more clear when pointing to the meter scales as to which tic marks I'm using but I did mention the AC voltage is taken on the red scale.
@timharig
@timharig Ай бұрын
The entire POINT of an isolation transformer is to isolate the connection from ground for safety. That way you cannot get shocked by grounding yourself out accidentally. The only way you get shocked is by bridging the two legs of the transformer. If one of the wires from the isolation transformer contacts the metal box, it's fine because the only path back to the transformer is through the other leg of the transformer. However, if you connect ground to metal box and one of transformer legs also touches the metal box, then ground becomes a path back to the transformer and you can once again electrocute yourself by accidently grounding yourself.
@izzzzzz6
@izzzzzz6 Ай бұрын
something i don't understand with isolation transformers. The voltage is still the same so must still be dangerous but you are also isolating from the RCD protection circuit so how does that male it safer? I guess if you touch both live and neutral on the other side of an isolation transformer you are more likely to just burn yourself rather than have the current flow through you (possibly essential organs) to ground but if you touched one of eack terminal in one of each hands then you would be at a greater risk.
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench Ай бұрын
Yes the secondary of the isolation transformer is just as dangerous as the normal AC line voltage. If you contact between both ends of the transformer's secondary you will be shocked. The protection or isolation the transformer offers is that there is no longer a ground reference which reduces the shock hazard. In other words, if you contact ONE SIDE of the transformer's secondary (and assuming the transformer and wiring is set up correctly) there is no path the current can take through your body to ground.
@Happymacer_P
@Happymacer_P Ай бұрын
Yes, but the second important benefit of an isolation transformer is that on mains powered test gear, the probe return wire is usually connected to ground. By making your test gear float you can protect both your test gear and yourself by preventing a live-earth short during testing.