No, just make sure you went with rule of cool rather than meta chase.

@@tallguy7890giantstill, even non-meta chasers like it when their loadouts are actually legal.

Nah we really don’t give a shit and nobody will tell us a thing

⁠@@artusyeddou5792 the fun of being a casual to simply ask your opponent “do you mind if I proxy this as ______?” My Ironclad dreads went to legends so I can’t really use them. Thanks to being a casual I can still “use” them.

I built one unit with magnets and one without, the one without I made it on only what I found looked coolest

yeah, only thing I'd change is giving coldstar a high output burst cannon and cyclic ion blaster. Running the math with that, they 96% chance wipe some cadians, and kill about 8 intercessors. Breachers are getting some competition

That would have been very rule of cool

A lot of missed oportunities to make something playable and fluffy but no, seems that the only rule is to dumb down everything.

@@nicktoms Specially beacuse they could have done like with other armies and even sell a "Crisis upgrade sprue" for this; three of each weapon, maybe a few recasting of the metal crisis commander's head... there are so many nice and easy options! And they even make them earn money!

i dont think you understand why GW axed cyclic ion cannons theyd have just added another layout of suit that was way more expensive if the issue was cyclics being too good. thats not the issue. the issue is that *Cyclic Ion Cannons are not in the Crisis Suit kit.* They're only in the kit for the leader ones, and theres only 1 of em. I think Airbursts are the same. Thats the real reason they're gone. They don't want Crisis Suits to have wargear they literally don't sell you.

@@mouthwide0pen Oh, no, I completely understand why they have crafted the new rules as they have, what I'm expresing is my dissappointment in how they "solved" the issues they've created. I left 40k in 5th edition and came back in 8th because of the Kill Team edition that started a little before it, and I disliked since then how the new rules not only removed miniatures that GW stopped selling, but also miniatures that you can easily convert by using your bit box. I've played a single game in 10th edition because for me, it wasn't fun building an army where everything costed the same. I felt I was being penalized in points for using my flamer unit instead of cycloblasters. The new rules may be the opportunity to have a little more fun with that, but it doesn't mean it has no problems. Of course it makes sense that applying the "no model/option, no rules" rule means no cycloblasters/launchers/etc, I know, I understand. But understanding doesn't mean I won't express my sentiments against it.

It'll probably get FAQ'd unfortunately, but it is cool.

It is cool! Seems a bit expensive for 2 CP to do that + throw a grenade, but maybe it could be worth it. Either way sounds like fun (until it's FAQd if it comes to that).

Soon every unit will be an Aspect Warrior

Actually, they are closer to the way the suits were in older editions. It was only the madness of 8th and 9th when the earth cast forgot the rules

​@@InquisitorPinkyand made them better... well, at least in 9th

@@michelecastellotti9172 broken, not better. Sometimes it feels like the same, but the 6er squads with CIBs was not good design. And remember: at least you can fire all weapons. In past editions you could only shoot one or you needed the multi tracker

It depends on the post. The question is do we have official points yet?

exactly my thought too.. and you can get kroot into combat against light vehicles etc and still shoot into it without the negative modifiers

Yeah, that is pretty much the use case I can see for them, shame fireknifes are also the most expensive suits

​@@TOOTHBRUSHDUCKWe don't know what their points are yet, I imagine they'll be priced to move because two of the detachments feel like they're based around it.

Doesn't the weapon support system allow you to ignore hit roll modifiers? If so, it won't negate the -1 to BS that comes from split firing with a guided unit.

​@@captaincoolbreeze9429-1BS sadly isn't a hit roll modifier

@@captaincoolbreeze9429 that would be why I said to add a System that already has a bit that would let them ignore Split Fire while guided

@@ZaylAvad splitfire penalty is a BS nerf, which is not a hit modifier.

​@@oh7mak He is aware of that.

how unimaginative.

Stealth Suits...? Sounds like you are complaining that Terminator only have 3 attacks against Hormagaunts in meele... There is more to the Tau Army than 1 unit..

@@setaripantheon8801 To me Stealthsuits are more leaning on anti-light infantry. And yes you do have other choices in the army, but you have point/slot competitions. Besides we never understand the range nerf when they still only shoot 1 shot at 24" which can only RF1 in the past anyway.

​@@setaripantheon8801stealth suits? Haha you can't be serious my guy. Obviously you don't play 40k much

Plasma being 1 shot is a bit of a kick in the balls. Unfortunately I think for mid range high AP you’ll have to look at the larger suits now (ghost-keels and riptides)

Ok THATS disgusting. Wounding anything T4 or less on 3s, wouding T5 on 4s/3s with Flamer/Burst, and anything up to T 10 on 5s for Flamers and up to T 12 for Bursts. All at -1 if not -2 AP.

you can also have in with fusion blasters strenght 10 wounding transports on 2's, tanks on 3', and titans on 4's

They’re not an elite unit anymore. So doesn’t really make sense to limit them to three.

@henryplitt2360 this is cope, any model that has 4 wounds base is elite, let alone the abilities and weapons it can take.

i don't think i ever used them as 6, so personally that part hasn't changed for me. but understandable for others noticing the difference

@@henryplitt2360 they are elite

@@oliverp3545 oh yeah those flamers and autcannons are super scary averaging like 3 wounds per unit. Not to mention having the extra S within 6. With a unit who can’t melee. So elite. If you’re not playing at a high level it’s fine to think what you want but objectively for anything over 150points per unit they’re literally unplayable.

I comparison to the existing crisis unit (3 model unit for comparison) either triple CIB or a mix of plasma and CIB would be a great way to see how much firepower the unit has lost.

Breachers do not have the same mobility unless you combine them with a Devil Fish(and you typically cant embark and disembark on the same turn), and even then, the majority of their firepower requires a target on an objective and/or a Fireblade leader. The footprint also becomes much larger that way, compared to a 3-model Starscythe crisis team. So I would say that they are both good, depending on what you feel you need. Riptides are very competetive with the Fireknife Crisis, but cant(by itself) get full rerolls to hit, and so is less efficient when fishing for Sustained/Lethal Hits(Kauyon/Mont'ka). I would say that it all depends on what the updated points cost of Fireknifes and Riptides is going to be, as the Riptide is probably superior if they both cost 165 pts(although it cant deep strike, so there is that as well). The damage potential of a 3-model Sunforge crisis team is much better than anything else the Tau has available right now(when considering the points). 6 shots that gets full rerolls to wound and damage rolls when targeting monsters and vehicles, is very good.

FK was kinda the default loadout in older editions, since you don't have much choice back then. Now it's still too expensive for this allround loadout.

@@briangen0 that's what they are trying to do here. "Trying" being the keyword.

Fireknifes problem is too few shots. Yes the Forge is only 2 shots but its role is anti tank and its abilities are always on and a BIG help against those units. Knife only gets 2-4 shots while the Star gets minimum 5 average of 7/8 and max 10. Knife needs more shots/more consistency in the damage to be viable.

@@memnarch129 that, and the fact that the plasma range was reduced, almost making it a bad Fusion blaster. Increasing the amount of dakka output would certainly fix it, but if GW improves a unit 9/10 times it's by a points discount.

It was a popular generic build before. They want player's to have to buy new kits. Loads of people managed to pick up Necron Warriors last edition. So this edition they get a nerf so make people buy other kits. It's just business.

While I get this, the problem was the CIB spam on the suits. So while the extra durability sounds great, the fact people could blow 54 shots from overcharged CIBs and totally nuke something was ridiculous. That's a potential of 108 damage...

@@clemo85 true, but this could be fixed by doing half of what they did now, removing the cib from the unit.

Or they could've let us keep it and limit it to 1 per suit. Or make the other weapons better to compete with it.

@@Kepora1 Making the other weapons better is a recipe for disaster. Then you'd have 30 different ways to nuke people

@@Kepora1 Or let us pay points for them....

They want you to buy 3 boxes so you can field each squad 1 time x)

I'm sorry, *FOUR* burst cannons? How is that possible?

@@LordCrate-du8zm Last editions allow you to take 4 weapons OR subsystems.

@@LordCrate-du8zmread the book i guess. in 10th the commander can take 4 burst cannons, missiles, fusions, flamers, and was able 4 cyclics but now that's the only weapon with a limitation in new codex, and even with the new codex coming out, it can still do the same ✌️

@@TheRealKyle Epic

If thats how you feel

This could have been a simple solution if not for the fact that everything *has to* have a bunch of special rules to reroll this, devastating that, and +1 to everything on Tuesdays.

the probleme was still here even with wargear cost

As a new warhammer player I find it more simple. I don't have to worry about thinking or logging down this stuff I just chose a different unit. A lot less to track when I am just trying to learn the rules anyways

@@fromnothingtoeverything1419 same

@@fromnothingtoeverything1419it is a better system, and now that suits are grouped into different data sheets we don’t have to overpay for flamers or burst cannons. But anytime GW makes big changes a portion of the old crew are going to complain

Nope

As said no you cant. 4 Fusion blasters max. Meaning a Sunforge unit is 150$ for a 165 point unit, or almost 1 dollar per point. At least Star and Knife are only about .50 cents per point so much better, but nothing compared to the previous Crisis value which was nearly .30 cents per point.

@@memnarch129 it s not like you are gonna run 1 unit of crisis anyway

@@ysbrann3059 Yes but here is the problem. As I said it makes the cost of running a Sunforge unit 150. Lets say you have 4 or 5 units already and want to add 1 Sunforge unit. Well thats 150 for 1 unit cause you have to buy 2 boxes. But you dont intend to add a second unit to your already 4 or 5. Its not a problem for new/returning people with 0 units. But it IS a problem for people that already have several and only want to add 1 unit. And again it makes the PPM to Cost value HORRID.

@@memnarch129 if you already have 4. 5 unit. you have Fusion blaster laying arround

They still have it but only on the Sunforge, so the fusion blaster option. The other 2 weapon options datasheets cannot get them.

@@87Kyrosan so thats the datasheet to spam i guess

@@javilo2797 Unless you're fighting against mid to large unit sizes, then the sunforge will REALLY struggle to remove that many models. 6 shots per unit, likely missing 33-50% of them. after wound rolls and potential saves you might only kill 2 models out of 10 or 20. If one of those models is a Land Raider it's way worth it. if you've ABSOLUTELY VAPOURIZED only 1 or 2 Khorne Berzerkers in the unit and then your suits get charged, its game over for the Crisis Suits in a big way.

@@javilo2797 Forge is only good against Monsters and Vehicles. They get Reroll Wound and Damage against Monsters and Vehicles but nothing else. Knife is supposedly anti elite, but its only 2-4 shots depending on your loadout, while Scythe is minimum 4 shots max 10 shots with decent AP so its weight of fire will be better anti elite than the Knife will.

illegal in tournament

@@ysbrann3059Illegal in general. There are no supported units with that loadout.

@@ImrahilToChaos the allrounded loadout is going legend.

@@ysbrann3059 legend look at riptide variants north of 225 no fix up like riptide going down 165.

@@skorathereckless6449 so ?

66 shots from CIB's was pretty stupid, not to mention everyone building their units the exact same way was incredibly 1 dimensional, obviously. immature players are just mad that they have to learn something new. theyre uncomfortable with change because they neither understand them nor desire to, as it requires time, energy and a deliberate application of ones brain power. thats why the top players are all playing different types of t'au lists and winning while the more pedestrian players are copying each other to mixed results. people just dont want to take responsibility for their own lack of skill and wish to makeup for it by complaining about shit they dont understand anonymously online??? yeah, its just lazy brains and big ol' insecure egos. i think the new changes are great and this is going to really open up t'au list diversity.

@@TheMarcosvolta yes thank you. Many people I think are over reacting. You want to true codex horror? Look at Dark Angels and Admech. This? This is nothing.

The problem is inherent with the lack of wargear cost in 10th. There is zero incentive to take any unit without it being in the most min-max efficient configuration, because you are forced to pay the full cost of the unit, that presumes you take the strongest wargear anyway. Wombo-combo’s that end up being brutally nerfed in the form of splitting one unit into three(!!!) datasheets is anti-thetical to simplifying the game

They could of just removed CiB and most of the problem would of been fixed. The other 80% of the change was not needed.

@@PhillipOnTakos as a DA palyer planning to make a Tau army after seing the codex . YES

Yea they gotta sell the new product.

YOU WILL BUY MORE KROOT

Considering kroot are overcosted?

or they nerfed them because it was broken ??

Now you understand my friend

Oh you mean like renaming Tactical/Devastator Marines to being Infernus/Eradicators/Heavy Intercessors/Hellblasters/Desolators. Everyone is right in the template is the Primarisfication of other armies. Taking a "Soup unit" with tactical variability and shaving it down to fill one role and one role only. I have to admit its a great way to sell more models since each kit wont make the models for multiple roles.

​@@memnarch129 The problem is that these aren't even separate kits like the primaris, this is just the 8 baneblades all over again

@@HighEffortUsername No its the same. Previously you had 2 Marine units, Tacticals and Devastators. Either unit could take Special or Heavy weapons in varying numbers. NOW Primaris you have ONE unit for ONE thing, Eradicators are the Melta, Infernus Flamers, Desolators Missile, etc. Same here. Yes its like the Baneblade in that 90% of the parts are the same but so where the Marines cause only difference was weapons. Baneblade started this shennanigans, Primaris made it a strategy.

@@memnarch129 See here's the thing about Marines getting their Tac and Dev squads split up into multiple specialised units... ... ... does it allow GW to sell more marine models? ... Yes. Should we be suspicious of GW and remember that they're a money grubbing corporation who prioritises profit above everything? ... Also yes. Yes absolutely. Was splitting up the squads an example of bad game design? Is that an inferior choice that GW made 'only' to make more money off marine players? ... ... ... ... ... Well... Here's the thing. There's a reason Craftworld Eldar have been consitently strong in every edition of 40k. There's a reason every Space Marine player always ran their Devastator squads with all the models equipped with the same gun, even though there was nothing stopping them from running one gun of each type (e.g. 1 Multi Melta, 1 Lascannon, 1 Plasma Gun, etc) The early designers at GW didn't realise it at the time, but they accidentaly stumbled upon peak game design when they made Eldar all about specialised squads built from the ground up to deal with one target type increadibly efficiently and one target type only. That's because highly specialised squads are always just inherently better than generalist/ multi role squads in every tabletop wargame ever invented by man. When you're playing a wargame, you want your anti tank unit to shoot at the tanks. You want your anti-infantry squad to shoot at the infantry. You want your anti power-armour squads to shoot at the power-armoured targets, etc, etc. That's just, basic, fundamental game design. 40k is a vastly complex and complicated game. Streamlining your squads makes the decision making easier on your brain. The Tactical Marines of old looked cool... but as the years went on and the editions rolled by, people realised that having to take 8 bolters just to include 1 lascannon and 1 Melta gun in the squad was just way less efficient that just taking 4 lascannons in a devastator squad and 4 Heavy Bolters in another. If your opponant was anywhere near competent, it was very easy for them to make sure those 8 tactical marines with bolters had no viable targets to shoot at, thus wasting points on a unit you paid for. Multi role units were only really effective if your opponant was bad at the game and made the mistake of placing a squishy infantry 'AND' a big tank within 12" range of your tactical squad at the same time. Opponants stopped doing that when they realised that was a bad idea and forced your bolters have only 1 target - a land raider. GW has cottened onto this. They've done the right thing and given all the factions access to their own specialised units. Because doing so also makes the game more skill expressive/ makes it into a more strategic game. You the general must move your specialised units into the correct position and make sure you use your different tools against the correct targets.You must not squander them and get them killed without taking down their intended target 1st, lest you lose a valuable and limited resource and you won't be getting back. By the same token, you must prioritise the removal your enemy's anti-tank units if you want your tanks to survive, particuarly if you've decided to make your tanks a key part of your strategy. i've said this before to many Eldar players complaining that 'everyone's coppying us and getting aspect warriors now'. Eldar players shouldn't be mad at every other army getting 'aspect warrior' equivalents. They should smile with a shit-eating grin as they sip their tea with a knowing nod. They should smile in quiet satisfaction, knowing full well the inherent superiority of the Aeldari way of war.

Spot on! I loved that...but each passing day its more like warmachine/infinity. You take "unit A" with weapon "type 1". I miss the "i make a unit of 6, with a flamer and a heavy bolter" to kill light infantry; or "plasma + rocket launcher vs heavy infantry" etc Hell, they nerfed that when they made mandatory units of 10 to have special + heavy weapons; so fuether restrictions seems stupid

I completely disagree, there three units do fundamentally different things and deserve fundamentally different data sheets with their own datasheet abilities. I do not miss having to source a tonne of bits because either not enough come in one kit (GSC rock saws, chaos Terminator lightning claws) or don't even come in the kit(cyclic ion blasters). If people *want* to go crazy with the modeling you still can, but for all the complaints of how restrictive this change is the reality is now there is the most varied variety in viable crisis suits wargear we've seen in ages.

@@geenah5052 You do realise that the solution would be to simply include a sprue with more options, right? Instead they just spread one model kit into 3 units for false variety. Now, I wonder if they will start selling crisis suits as separate kits, or as one kit you can magnetise, we will see. And with how wargear has no cost differences this edition, people will still gravitate towards the single optimal loadout anyway - math-hammer simply got easier because you don't have to include wargear cost as a factor.

​@@geenah5052 You still have to source bits, the current crisis box only has 4 fusion blasters so you can't make a full unit.

@@HighEffortUsername I agree, but comparing how easy it is to come by 2 fusion blasters by already owning a tau army given they are in so many kits and sourcing cyclic ion blasters is disingenuous

Are we tho?

​@@michelecastellotti9172The ones not busy malding are.

Pretty much. Even if Gear costed separately, they would still take them. Someone made a chart with the damage they could do and it was insane compared to the Sunforge one.

The problem was always 6 Suits, historically it's always been tricky to crack the block even if you are prepared for it, let alone most levels of casual.

@@oliverp3545 Even 3 suits is hard to crack in low points games

If they were so op then why did tau only have a 45% win rate? They have few unit options. They arent op at 3 life, one shot on any character they just blow up

They suck now, they can't fly over terrain, they have closer ranged weapons now and they're designed to be LONG RANGE and get annihilated in melee.. that's how the Tau are, if you can keep at range you'll probably win, if you can't you aren't going to. That's not imbalanced. Pretty much every other army are set up to sometimes beat Tau in ranged fights and basically always win up close, at range the Tau don't win almost every time, it's more like 60% and that was before this .. pretty sure GW just lost basically their entire Tau playerbase

No one cares about SM with your 1 million datasheets 😂

9th already had it figured out with how to avoid spamming just one type of weapon: make additional copies of it on the same model cost extra. No one was spamming the same weapons types in 9th because of this. When they made wargear free, it became stupid not to spam CIBs.

cry me a river and go play 9th edition. nobody is forcing you to play 10th.

@@TheMarcosvolta I guess there's no point in trying to improve the game, everyone. This guy just let us know that we can go play a different game instead.

@@Chunkypumpkinhead anonymously crying into the void of the internet is not, "trying to improve the game." grow the fuck up and deflate your goddamn ego. gw doesnt listen to youtube comments, they rely on experienced game designers and aggregate statistical data from games played. we dont need cry babies in the hobby. have fun with minecraft.

@@Chunkypumpkinhead the game is way beter than what it was in 9th which was horrible

It is definitely going to shift the way they play. I don't think they are useless, but they aren't the be all end all and they're just going to be part of a kroot list or all arms list at this point.

there is plenty of use for kroot unit in other detachement

Or SM players not obsessed with fascist aesthetics 😂

@@dirtyjose3263 I don't get it. You think SM players are concerned with fascist beauty? I don't even know what that would be...

no they didn t

Stop cry and use the mind to win :D