You can get cheaper lawn ornaments at Walmart or even at a brothel in Nevada.

no its not

@@psikogeek And better made ones.

It's a joke !!!!

Heh,when people say the F-35 possesses a low range,I wonder to myself: Compared to _what_? A B2 bomber?

to Su-27 variants, F-35 has around 2000km to 2500km, but Su-27 can reach 3500km, Su-35 can go 3600km and has ferry range reach 4500km, so yeah, not enough if they meet Su-27/Su-30/Su-35 as the Sukhois would be able to keep engaging the F-35(if they are capable of doing that... but I wouldn't doubt it since they have IRST) long after F-35 has run out of fuel. but again, Sukhoi are heavy fighters, they MUST have that range... so yeah

StealthTallyFox The F-35 can easily mount drop tanks w/o sacrificing payload as weapons are stored internally,jettisoning them later to avoid detection (assuming X-Band radar used). WRT IRST,the F-35 has it too,it's called DAS which supports its forward looking infrared sensor.And have you actually seen an F-35 on thermal imaging? www.businessinsider.sg/irst-cant-stop-f-22-f-35-2016-8/#DTPU5b136H9BDEQ2.97 IRST has shitty azimuth and is vulnerable to adverse weather conditions,and needs cooling as well since the air heating,which can heat up their lens causing their camera to blur up.AESA is also superior to the IRBIS-E PESA as it has good jamming resistance,and itself can jam the PESA radars of the venerable legacy Sukhois.Radar remains the best way to detect aircraft as it can target and track multiple hostiles simultaneously.

F-35 Lightning II well mate... I know those stuff too, but 1. we don't know how accurate the IRST Sukhoi has but I can bet it's better than what US think since the first off boresight capability was developed by Russians. so their doctrine must adhere to these disadvantages, by relying on their jammers to somewhat deny full BVR superiority to F-35, and force the F-35 into dogfight where they can fully exploit their IRST 2. jettisoning the tanks while F-35 hasn't really used much of the fuel wouldn't have effected much of F-35 range, probably only adding it up to 2800km to 3400km, and I think US would immediately jettison the tanks immediately as they're going to enter the fight range, which the Sukhois would probably do too, but they'd have max 3600 without the external tanks, still superior to the F-35s. 3. while radars are more reliable these days, even AESA radar is actually jammable as US E/A-18G Growler actually defeat F-22A in a mock combat scenario, so I think although AESA is less prone to jamming, it doesn't mean it won't have interference when there's a jammer nearby, thus this will be used by Sukhois to deny full BVR superiority of F-35 and force it into dogfight where the big engine of F-35 is a great source of heat note even with this, I'm not saying Sukhoi is a superior fighter. I'm just saying that F-35 need more range, I wouldn't mind if they can't dogfight that well since that's the job of F-22A, but if they need to refuel and a Sukhoi is chasing them? how can they fight back if they run out of fuel?

StealthTallyFox If we're speaking of EW ability,the F-35 will prove to be better at it than Sukhois as it was built w/ EW in mind.Sukhois are pure bred air superiority fighters.Much of the EW ability remains highly classified,so no one knows much,and it is the aim of the F-35 to incorporate jamming ability into the airframe to eliminate the need for legacy platforms.F-35 also possesses a powerful computer with powerful processing power and this is significant,RANRAP deception being touted as an ability,i.e. the ability to generate false radar signatures.Alternatively,as AESA is LPI it is harder to detect with RWR,and possesses abilities to counteract the jamming and anti radiation missile threat by swapping to a bistatic configuration as opposed to a monostatic one.Also,these Low sidelobe antennas, • Irregular antenna scan patterns, • High duty cycle/wide band transmission, • Accurate power management, • Carrier frequencies at peak atmospheric absorption, • Very high sensitivity, • High processing gain, • Coherent detection, If,hypothetically,a dog fight ensues,a near impossible scenario in this day and age,and assuming equal no.s of aircraft,there would be no victor.Kill ratios would be 1:1.Given the prevalence of early missile warning systems,advanced heat seeking missiles capable of rejecting false flare readings and being thrust vector capable,a defender will be given ample notice that he's being targeted and fire a missile of his own.Once both aircraft have achieved their 'launch and leave' missiles kill ratios will result in a 1:1 magnitude.This is not my opinion or conjecture,this is from a report by the CSBA. And if F-35s had to jettison their fuel tanks so early,it'd mean they didn't need the entirety of the external fuel tank's capacity.

That happens automatically with MADL. They all have the same avionics and connectivity, with programmable architecture for service-specific tasks such as Automatic Carrier Landing System and Advanced Synthetic Aperture Surface Scan AESA modes for the Navy. There are early articles where USAF and USMC F-35 units were working together with unprecedented abilities in joint comms without ever needing to hit the PTT button. F-35 connectivity is visual-based on a top-down display window in the wide panel displays that the pilot can configure how they want. One senior F/A-18 USMC pilot said his first "ah ha" moment was when he got into the aircraft at Edwards (USAF Flight Test Center), turned it on, and all of a sudden had full SA of the entire airspace around him before he even had any of his sensors active. Other F-35s were in the air he wasn't aware of until that point, and all of their sensor data was automatically being piped to his bird per the normal function of the MADL. There's also an article from the Israelis talking about this, where as soon as you take off an reach a certain altitude, even a single ship F-35 sees all sorts of tracks in the air, on the Mediterranean, in the Suez Canal, Red Sea, airliners, merchant ships, warships, and even low earth orbit satellites. These are all color and shape-coded for friendly, neutral, threat, type, status, weapons count, etc. It's a level of battlespace omniscience that not even any of the video games would ever dare to provide to the player.

He had a great interview and podcast with Jocko Willink, a Navy Seal team leader, who he served side by side with on the ground as a Marine.

They do cross servicing flying too as an exchange program. Your not just limited to your branch if you have the respect, creds and opportunity. Granted its not for everyone, but it does happen.

He was an F/A-18 TOPGUN graduate and instructor

The benefits should be really evident in about 3-4 years.

LPMBB1815 the benefits are already evident, but rarely gets reported on. Journalists are never ever going to admit that an F35 pilot knows more about both dogfighting and the F35 than they do by reporting the positives of our 5th generation fighters. Doing so would be a tacit admission they were wrong all this time.

Matty mo Very, very true and great point.

Well... poorly managed money, but the final jet will be an amazing product for the investment.

I agree 100%.. People don't seem to know the difference between price and value so I will try to explain it in plain terms for those idiots out there. Yes, F-35's price was high but its value is high too. For example Mercedes S class is pricey, it costs a lot but it's value is also high, meaning you get a lot for the price. The same is with F-35.Sure, it costs more then F-16 but since it has a great value it can do a job that 10 F-16 can't. It is a simple fact that USAF won't be able to penetrate modern advanced integrated air defense areas with legacy fleet. That's where the F-35 comes into play and its advanced sensor fusion and stealth. It becomes the force multiplier from which that legacy fleet will benefit too. So I say buy F-35, buy them at faster pace so we can be an all 5th generation stealth force by 2030.

Izno Iznotroll: You made another fundamental false assumption with the F-35, that it must record kills using its onboard missiles, and not those from another aircraft in the sortie. You also incorrectly limited the F-35's missile carrying capability to 2 per, when it is currently 4 x AIM-120 internal, while still maintaining most of its VLO with 2 external AIM-9X, plus the gun. You forgot about the gun. If we limit a single F-35A to its own weapons, the programmable gun burst will be the ultimate limiter on how many aircraft it can shred in-flight. With 181 rounds of 25mm dual-purpose ammunition, you can get anywhere from 3-10 bursts, with the software being the limiter. How many impacts of 25mm do you need on a non-maneuvering target to shred the fuselage or a wing? So I set the bursts to 20rds with a sensor-fused gun mode using the AESA, the EOTS, and the quad-redundant CPU. That gives me 9 x 20rd bursts of High Explosive Incendiary ammunition. What's the Pk of a VLO supersonic approach with the GAU-22/A on a non-maneuvering, massive Sukhoi tennis court? Izno Izno-manned target from Sukhoi design bureau. What's the Pk of an AIM-120C7 or D from a VLO approach on any 4th Gen, non-maneuvering threat out there who can't see where the F-35 is coming from? A 2-ship of F-35As can inflict a maximum kill count of 6 + 9, or 15 per, assuming a burst limitation of 20rds per burst of the 25mm gun. That's with the current weapons suite of AIM-9X, AIM-120C/D, and GAU-22/A. With the new weapons suite for Block 4, they're adding another AIM-120 to each internal bay, for a total of 6 AIM-120 inside, and 2 AIM-9X externally. Block 5 will likely bring in a totally new missile system, where each bay will hold 6 AAMs. Your understanding about Serbian MiG-29 shoot-down is void of any facts. The F-15C pilot shot it down with AIM-7M and AIM-120 shots, not 4 x AIM-120 shots.

@@LRRPFco52 You count the Gun in a plane that is supposed to stay out of dogfighting range? A su-35 will outturn, outrate and outclimb an F-35 in its heaviest loadout. the only chance the F-35 could have, is at BVR. And the Aim 120 is an old piece of kit. Maybe with the next gen, the Aim 260. Hope it fits in the bay.

@@Gunni1972 There is no singular AIM-120 "old piece of kit", unless you’re talking AIM-120A and B. AIM-120C7-AIM-120D4 are the most capable BVRAAMs at the moment, with the most testing and live-fire validation schedule of any AAM in the word, with far more maneuvering QF-16C TGT drones employing ECM/ECCM to back that up. An F-15C+ just demonstrated the longest BVR missile intercept against a maneuvering TGT drone ever, breaking any previous records held by other missiles. It did it with AIM-120D4. F-35 has a better kinematic/informational/positional separation envelope than the F-15C+ will ever have. AMRAAM is not static, and the latest guidance units are far more capable, far less volumetric. Motors have improved incrementally over the years to the extent that effective range and burn duration have changed considerably. It allows more possibilities within the same space as the current missile body. It’s one thing for a nation to advertise BVRAAM capabilities, and another entirely to validate them against maneuvering drones using countermeasures, in conditions designed to actually challenge the systems, rather than appease a dictatorial regime who only wants to see success.

Izno Iznogoud Hope you are a tax payer then.

he secretly enjoys it

Izno Iznogoud dude get off the F35 and go fuck your rafale!!! Dip shit.

Izno Inzotroll: Saddam might have something to say about that if he were still alive. Same with Assad's dad. Red Flag predates any predominance by LM in the fighter/attack/AWACS communities. It started out with McDonnel Douglas, Grumman, Vought, Fairchild, and Boeing providing most of the systems if you go back to 1975. Not sure what the contractors have to do with how the USAF uses their systems though in massive campaign exercises.

They call it a sensor-shooter platform, not a multirole combat aircraft, or a fighter-attack A/C, but an F/A/EF/R/AWACS-35. The pilot reports about some of the basic things the F-35 does just when you turn it on are jaw-dropping. They don't even ask for anything, and they already have a full picture of the airspace as soon as they fire up the systems. When making final landing approach, they have more info than the ATC does about the pattern and who's in the airspace vectoring to the airport.

Izno Iznogoud your stupid, the 70's bvr was 35+% today it's close to 90%

Izno Iznogoud: AIM-7E pk in Vietnam was 11%. AIM-7 was never really meant for high performance, maneuvering fighters, but to intercept bombers. By Desert Storm, the AIM-7M was used to score 24 of the 32 air-to-air kills that the F-15C community inflicted in Iraqi MiG-29s, Mirage F1s, MiG-25s, and MiG-23s. The AIM-120 was the US's first Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile that was designed from the outset to intercept maneuvering fighters at BVR, as well as WVR. Most of your pk figures are not understood by amateurs or cursory analyses of pk figures, because the role of firing initial volleys to make a threat go defensive is not accurately accounted for. Those missiles are fired knowing that they will not connect, but to get threat air to turn and run them out of WEZ, which bleeds important situational awareness perspective, aircraft energy, and set-up for the fight. These are basic 4th Gen tactics that were developed and countered, then counter-countered, etc. in the 1970s and 1980s. 5th Gen allows pilots to set up the WEZ and NEZ in ways that could never be done before, with a lot of creativity on the possessor of the 5th Gen aircraft, and basically flying blind for the 4th Gen or Gen 4+ birds. Just to survive the initial taxi and take-off, that means they have somehow defeated or escaped BGM-109 and other low-flying cruise missile hive strikes, and are still a Target Designated box on the Joint Forces Tactical Targeting Planner's System, which has hundreds of raw sensor platform connectivity from satellite to forward-deployed reconnaissance soldiers on the ground behind enemy lines. The F-35 pilots are already waiting for very specific targeted enemy fighters to get airborne so they can receive echelons of weapons based on the most efficient way of eliminating those threats. Figure at least 4 flights of F-35s in theater minimum, with at least 2 F-22A flights, as well as legacy F-15Cs, F-15Es, F-16Cs, or Super Hornets as part of the Combined Air Component Forces, as well as coalition fighter and attack aircraft who are already integrated into the US/NATO/SEATO and Mideast air forces (F-16C, F-15C, F-15S, F-35, F/A-18C-F). You're looking at literally hundreds of AMRAAMs available at any given time, and the F-35 doesn't have to be the one to launch any of their own until last-resort. The F-35 allows 4th Gen birds to have more approach potential without detection than they would alone, just looking at its SA and link. Now factor in an EW suite that is such a generational leap ahead of 4th Gen, that it's described as eye-watering, and you can really ruin the ability of Gen 4+ fighters to see, even with the most advanced radars (that they don't have anyway-PESA is 1980s tech in the air at best). So now you have that Su-30/Su-35 flight thinking they are good-to-go in air superiority role, when they are already out-numbered by at least 10-1 in theater, with inferior avionics, unproven missiles, and pilots that are nowhere near as trained as US/NATO pilots. They start chasing ghosts right into multiple traps that end badly for them. There isn't much they can really do. Their EW/ECM/ECCM systems are one of the main things Russia has focused on to deal with threat missiles, but when you get into that battle with a fused AESA network where every plane that has an AESA also has a super-computing CPU, and now you're in a very bad place again. All your kinematics are mapped with flight and weapon algorithms accounted for, so that you just push deeper and deeper into a terrible trap. If you study what happened to the Iraqi MiG-25 on 07DEC1992, imagine that same type of sequence playing out much faster among fighters, without the need to even coordinate with an AWACS, or for an AWACS to even be around. Imagine that happening without much radio traffic, or even no verbal radio traffic at all, going down more efficiently than it did then, with the MiG-25 not even knowing what was happening. On 07DEC1992, the MiG-25 pilot knew he was being chased by F-15Cs and being tracked by AWACS. He headed back north like a raped ape to escape over the NFL, but was intercepted by an F-16D-40 that had just tanked up off a KC, since the F-15Cs had to bingo. The F-35A has about twice the time on station as the F-15C with 2 wing tanks, with the F-35 "only" having internal fuel. The F-35 wouldn't even need to paint the MiG-25 with its AESA radar, and if it wanted to, it could do it in a way that went under current TWS detection capabilities. In that case, the MiG-25 used some avoidance techniques, but was still killed by a little F-16D with an AMRAAM head-on with a very high closure rate. The MiG-25's tail section continued into the exploding nose section, with 3 distinct fireballs. This was the first live AMRAAM kill in history. The AMRAAM has undergone at least several different upgrades from that time, and added more kills as well, the most recent being a Navy F/A-18E Super Hornet over Syria shooting down a Syrian Su-24.

LRRPFco52 very very well explained and said. That guy lenso Will be back with some stupid smart ass comment as he is a F35 troll always bashing on it hyping up Rafales and Russian fighters as well not knowing much of shit. So thanks for the insightful post as I did not have the much patience to right what you did going back and forth with him!!!

Also, we've since learned that the 17-1 and 20-1 kill ratios in favor of the F-35A and B were much higher numbers, but represented in simplified terms as not to reveal the full kill count and sortie rates held on these bloodless exercises before the bloody battles. In a face-to-face conversation I had with an F-35A pilot, he said the only F-35 losses at Red Flag to Red Air were after dead Red Air who had already been killed, regenerated and gamed out the system to re-join the F-35s for a WVR kill. In reality, there would be zero A2A kills against the F-35. The same squadron then went to fight one of the best F-15C (not a pound for Air to Ground) squadrons out of Kadena in Japan. These are equipped with the latest APG-63 AESA variant radars, advanced digital Programmable Signals Processors, AIM-9X, JHMCS, new RWR, and other new avionics systems for survivability/lethality. What happened when brand new cherry F-35 pilots with no other experience showed up? Even in the BFM/WVR worst-case set-ups, the F-15Cs could only sometimes emerge victorious. For anything BVR, they were toast. These are career F-15C Squadrons with decades of institutional knowledge built on the 104-0 F-15C (mostly) A2A kill record against manned scrap metal targets made by Mikoyan and Sukhoi design bureaus over the past 39 years (First Israeli F-15A kills were in 1979 against Syrian MiGs equipped with latest Radar Warning, missiles, and radars from Soviet Union at the time.)

"Most of your pk figures are not understood by amateurs or cursory analyses of pk figures, because the role of firing initial volleys to make a threat go defensive is not accurately accounted for. Those missiles are fired knowing that they will not connect, but to get threat air to turn and run them out of WEZ, which bleeds important situational awareness perspective, aircraft energy, and set-up for the fight. These are basic 4th Gen tactics that were developed and countered, then counter-countered, etc. in the 1970s and 1980s." Yup, well written

The data links in legacy aircraft don't have the bandwidth to receive the full sensor interleaving picture from JSF, but JSF can send geolocated targets to 4th Gen. The problem with A-10C is it isn't survivable even in a legacy 1970s-1980s IADS net, let alone 1990s-modern IADS nets. If I'm an air planner looking at the Air Tasks List, the A-10C will be relegated to CSAR at best.

@Gary > OK, since you are the expert, inform us how they setup Red flag to favor one aircraft.

It is older than the F-35's and the Lightnings one isn't quite "up to date" either. the chinese and russians developed their stealth planes later.

That's kinda what Sec Gates said. I can buy two f-35's for the cost of one F-22. He thought the F-22 was 'exquisite' but around 180 was sufficient. I hope he was correct.

+Roger Flint Please don't ever comment again...

From what I understood the 5th-Gen aircraft are meant to help punch a hole in defenses. After that they'll back out and let the 4th gen aircraft destroy whats left over.

Roger Flint just stop please

Izno Iznogoud Good luck with your massive L band radar. As soon as it’s turned on an F35 will have found it and sent 2000lbs of BOOM on its way miles before your L band can even see anything. You know L band can not identify targets.

That depends on the OS used but the F-35 was designed to be able to have 3 drones controlled by the F-35 Pilot fly with it.

Yeah, you think for all the money, they could find something better than muslin cloth.

... You mean good deal dave?🤘

Scruffy Smith and the Pentagon's chief weapons inspector is a politician who never served a day in his life.

Scruffy Smith it also explains why they use the wrong metrics to evaluate jets life the F22 and F35

Sure the analysts do because the Apaches have had this system for years. There is little difference between the F-35's targeting system and that of the Apache Longbow.

Wrong. F-35 EOTS and DAS makes the Apache look like a Commodore 64 next to an iPhone X. F-35 sensors are 3 generations advanced ahead of anything on the Apache D model.

Apparently the navy uses them for training their main aircraft.

LTC Burke started out in the F/A-18C, dropped one of the first live F/A-18 JDAMs in Iraq no fly zone on a SAM site, has 2000hrs in the Hornet, went to Top Gun, was asked to come back to be an instructor for at least 3 years flying F-16 Adversaries, then became an ANGLICO officer, deployed to Ramadi, came back, got specially selected to help transition the USMC to 5th Gen aircraft, flew the F-22 for at least a year, then the F-35B before retiring. There are very few combat pilots who have had the experiences he has, or been able to fly the aircraft he has. He said the F-22 blew him away when he first started flying it, but then experienced the most miserable time in his career as a pilot, because new F-22 pilots with almost no experience were able to smoke him daily because he was used to fighting as a 4th Gen pilot. He was normally able to beat new pilots as a Top Gun instructor with his hands tied behind his back, so this was extremely hard for him to deal with, requiring that he re-learn how to fight in the air with 5th Gen tactics.

Would you rather believe someone that knows little to nothing about the plane over someone that does? See the flaw of your statement?

@@aerospacecadet9781 both in my opinion are equally invalid, and that comes from being in the military and knowing the politics of it. Im not questioning the experience or skill of either of these two pilots, only the complete truthfulness in their statements. They were likely briefed on the things they were to say and any deviation from that script would have meant career ending consequences for both of them. I was lied to on a daily basis by men who hold the ranks of these two pilots in order for them to maintain compliance in the ranks. They absolutely would be told to do the same and more to ensure compliance from civilians.

lans carpool......Chip Berke aint in the USMC anymore and still says the same stuff about how good the fighter is. Must be a GIANT CONSPIRACY.....OR you are the liar here. Im backing the ex-Marine.

@@yakidin63 It doesnt have to be a conspiracy, its just common sense. These guys grab for career opportunities with the DOD or corporations who supply the military once they retire. You think an aircraft manufacturer is gonna hire a guy to test out their new aircraft if that same pilot is gonna point out its flaws in a public setting? Doubtful. The flight time and findings these guys come out with is part of what sells the aircraft not only to the military but to congress as well. It's not hard to imagine a "I scratch your back, you scratch mine" scenario. I Served with 1st LAR in Pendleton and deployed on the 11th MEU. Look up what just happened to 3rd LAR, if its even published. Their active duty Batallion Commander and Sgt. Maj. were just relieved and seperated for appropriating their Batallion's training and maintenance funds. Im only saying greed happens, even in the higher ranks of acrive duty officers and enlisted so always take anybody's word with a grain of salt, especially when they work for or in conjuction with the Pentagon.

@@yakidin63 Also im not trying to argue with the F-35's worth. It could very well be that the F-35 is an outstanding aircraft, it certainly costs enough to be one, but if you want these guy's honest opinions about it, youd have to get them intoxicated and chat them up. The F-35's flaws are something they'd never discuss on record with a 3rd party, especially if its on camera.

Yes directional discreet links, its not the links i am worried about its where a hostile player can "plug in" in other places in the chain. Its not a hub and spoke battlespace any more , multiple players can now become hubs. The more complex it gets the greater the risk, for many years we were so arrogant we didnt even consider other people may be "looking in" and designed our gear with that mindset. The F-35 has had to have enormous reinventing of the wheel to close its vulnerabilities. We are way too optimistic.

The Russians are way ahead of us in the information manipulation game as of today, they use it as a force multiplier.

Nobody is breaking military grade encryption without supercomputers. And even then it isnt guaranteed. And even then you can start getting into likely unbreakable quantum encryption with quantum computing. We should be worried about Russian and Chinese trolls and bots on Twitter and in this video comments section.

well 250 million dollars per crash or loss is not tenable in a war. think about it. 24 of those on an aircraft carrier, and they are worth more than the carrier. And a nimitz class can carry 80 planes.

Israelis destroyed Syrian S-300 SAM sites within a month of taking delivery of 2 F-35s, and have been violating Iranian airspace for sport.

nope...Congress banned any information like that from being made public under the National security Act ...punishable under the act of Treason.

I agree 100%....but, it looks like the F-35 Program has much bigger worries on it's hands now. Trump can't cancel the F-35 Program but he can reduce the number being purchased. This of course will drive the cost per unit up and the Program will begin to unwind under it's own escalating per unit cost. I don't see a happy ending for the F-35 Program... "President-elect Donald Trump pledged Monday, on Twitter, to cut back on the nation's highly anticipated F-35 program - marking the second time in as many weeks that the mogul has taken to social media to express a desire to slash military spending." www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/donald-trump-tweets-pledge-cut-back-f-35-fighter-jet-costs-article-1.2907886

Trump can't reduce the number being purchased, that's Congress. Trump has lots of time to write nonsensical tweets right now, that will change 1/20. I expect him to defer, entirely, to whatever he's told by House Armed Services.

A-10 is not the most effective CAS platform we have. They take too long to get on station when you have urgent TIC, and they aren't survivable in even an obsolete 1970s-era IADS. I love the A-10, have called them in for CAS myself, and watched the development of the YA-10 through A-10C from Edwards to the present, but it's been obsolete for decades really. Most of our CAS is from F-15Es because they have response time (supersonic), a massive payload, and are more survivable in places like Syria. The F-35 will have faster response time than the F-15E because the F-35 can configure slick, and still carry plenty of SDBs that will serve the CAS mission much better than heavier Mk82 class and above for LIC, while still being able to carry Mk83 and Mk84 class JDAMs for conventional target interdiction. F-35 will have a very detailed, high resolution picture of Blue Forces and Red Forces in the TIC area, and be able to precision-strike select targets to protect ground forces in a way that has not been available before, especially in bad weather with over-the-horizon toss capability.

And PLEASE show your PRIMARY source that is better than these guys. OR, eat lead.

EdoVIPER 17-1 at red flag

Mig 29 goes up that high too. Nothing special about that. And a blind man could see the side rudder the F-22 has. I am pretty sure, the F-22 performs scalable by physics. and the Russians have wind tunnels too.

Actually, Russian disinformation ops people like you are the ones with zero credibility. And how's the PAK-FA coming along? Last I read, Russia only built five, one caught on fire and the others rarely fly. India pulled out of the project because their engineers said it wasn't stealthy, its avionics were already obsolete, and the engine performed badly and was unreliable. Maybe Russia can buy some Chinese planes, or maybe from Brazil.

Larry Roberts I'm an f35 fanboy, and an a10 fanboy. I'm convinced the f35 can do the f16, f18 and harrier missions better than those planes, and probably a couple of others in time, like the growler. I'm not convinced it can do CAS better than the a10, but I am convinced it can do CAS better than any other plane the AF has doing it, and they have a lot of other planes doing CAS. The economics are an issue.

OK-------------- SRD ------- I agree with you that the F-35 can do most jobs better than the classic fighters. And I think you are agreeing that the A-10 is in a class of its own for close support simply because it can be there to see and take out pin point targets only meters from our troops if needed. The only other aircraft that even comes close is the AC-130 gunships. While I have seen what the A-10 can do close up, all you need to do is watch a few hours of A-10 videos to see for yourself what it can do. With the new upgrades they are finally putting on the fighter it will even be better. Also look at a few other videos on F-16 and F-18 attacks and you will understand their high speed problems. Unless they have a laser marker to paint the targets or an exact GPS location they miss more times than they hit which is why they are limited to molti-kilometer wide clearance zones from all friendly troops . Even the GPS 2,000lbs bombs with a kill radius of kilometers, have been known to hit friendly troops when the bomber mixes up the coordinates or simply mixes up a number. You can even watch an airstrike video of troops on a ridge 5 kilometers away having to bury their heads below or behind ground cover to keep from getting hit by their own bombs fragmentation. Sorry but the Airforce should keep a lot more A-10 in the inventory than the few they are keeping simply because i keep hearing about our and friendly troops getting getting over run because the A-10's are busy elsewhere. Fact is it is why we are losing in Afghanistan right now. The only way the few troops we have in Afghanistan can work and win, is if they have an overwhelming Air presence and not just a few dozen A-10 and the Occasional high altitude bomber, to keep costs down.

USMC use harriers and f18s for CAS, NOT A10's so I imagine the F35 is outstanding for them.

A-10 Is the King of CAS.... if you control the sky's and there no heavy AAA threat on the ground. In first Iraq war A-10 took hits and lots of damage when engaging ground units with AAA. In green flag exercise F-35 took no loses while F-16 and A10 were shot down.. this was there CAS role in threat environment with Air threats and AAA.

'The F-35 is not designed to handle the ordinance as the A-10 ThunderBolt II

PSG1JOHN1 the A-10 ThunderBolt II can take more punishment than the F-35 Lightning via actual ComBat

airforcemax If the A-10 enters a place with out total air superiority and face ground based SAM and MANPADS, it dead does not matter what armor you have on the plane. The Armor on the A-10 was made to stop cannon fire 23mm around pilot, because when the A-10 was made its biggest threat was all those Russian 23mm ground based AAA. Did you know the role of the A-10 in the 70-90 was to do a suicide attack on Russian armor to try block the roads if the Russian push into Germany, because of Russian had SAM/MANPODS and AAA and fighter cover. We know the A-10 carry's a huge Payload and has better armor then the F-35, we are talking about survivability when faced with SAM system and MANPODS and air threats. Just look at Ukraine with All those Su-25 being shoot down with MANPODS. Su-25 is the Russian A-10. Though out the History of the SU-25 MANPODS were it biggest threat and if you put A-10 in a postion facing MAPODS threat your going have dead A-10. Like I said before the A-10 is King of CAS if you control the Air and the ground threat does not have heavy AAA or MANPODS. A-10 is a great anti insurgent air weapon in Iraq Afghanistan when the enemy does not have heavy AAA and MANPODS and Aircover of anykind

During the Gulf war, A-10s were downed with small AAA.

It's combat range and ferry range is far more than we've been led to believe with some of the open source info out there. It has twice the ability to stay on station as a 2 tank F-15C. Another recent slip came from a career F-15E pilot who said they have more legs in the F-35A than an F-15E, which didn't sound right at the time. Now that the Israelis say they are able to penetrate Iran and fly back to Israel without refueling, I'm really scratching my head. You can tell Burke and the other guy in this video are keeping the cards close to their vests, and just said they chuckle when people say the F-35 doesn't have legs.

F-35I was used in combat over Syria within 1 month of delivery to Israel, and has recently been conducting penetrations of Iranian airspace, defeating S-300 IADS for sport.

@Boogieman Since that comment 2 years ago, USMC F-35Bs, USAF F-35As, UK F-35Bs, Israeli F-35Is, Norwegian F-35As, and Italian F-35As have all conducted sustained operational and combat missions, including delivery of weapons on enemy forces in CENTCOM, massive ISR collection efforts over CENTCOM, Defensive and Offensive Counter Air, Maritime Escort, Strike, and Close Air Support on a rolling basis. Readiness reads in the forward-deployed units have been much higher than advertised by POGO, even among the more complex F-35B in USMC and Royal Air Forces units. Commanders said they're experiencing twice the readiness rates from the F-35B compared with the AV-8B even off of LHDs.

You cretins are plentiful.

What are you rambling on about?

Who cares?

Sandra Barreto you believe everything you hear? I have a Lamborghini for sale, only 2 grand. send me the money and I promise I'll send you a Lamborghini.

***** How much is for the engine? LOL

It's a special engine so a grand. it's really cool.

***** Why didn't you state it at once? could it run w/o the engine?

You are clearly a moron. That is NOT what he said.

Must be a world wide conspiracy. Everyone says its good.

Jorge F yea okay jorge, what do you do for a living? Im guessing your much more knowledgeable than these experts right? Haha ignorance at its best

You do realise that other nations pilots test fly it and rave about how good it is. Or is it a world wide conspiracy now. hahaha. Maybe you should listen to the people that have their asses on the line. the pilots.

​@@yakidin63 > Pilots are not big government people. I know many ex military pilots because of the work I do. They are not the kind of people who would lie because the big, bad government wants them to. If a Military pilot says they are good, that is good enough for me. You say listen to the pilots. Have you actually read on any of the recent pilot reports? Everyone I have read, stated they will take the f-35 over any of the legacy aircraft they came from.

Thanks, Ivan. Obviously, you you know more than the many F-35 pilots who've tested it and now fly it in operation. Now have another vodka and raise a toast to your dictator.

And so you missed the part where they pilot said it is on-par with the F-16 in terms of flying characteristics but that also the envelope really hasn't been pushed yet?

I agree, it is a Vector aircraft but one with the capability of defending itself, especially in a squad configuration.

Izno Iznogoud Your post is utter bullshite. And you proved it by listening to Sprey. Facts are clearly not your forte.

Izno Iznogoud You trolls continue to post lies. Hostage did not make that comment about F35s and has said so. That was debunked a long time ago. Lies lies lies from the troll.

airforcemax imbecile

Thats what they said when the F-15 came out, to this day it has never lost a dog fight.

bob robertson 17-1 at red flag.

Izno Iznogoud More of your baseless bullshit posts.

bob robertson the musket and now and arrow worked well to...imagine if someone other than you had such a fucked up outlook..we would still be using muskets and bows...