Vegeta was already cracking the Super Saiyan barrier with Super Vegeta after only 1 year of training. I find it impossible to believe he wouldn't figure it out in SEVEN years of non-stop training. Especially after witnessing it first hand so he has an idea of what to look for.

I never understood this debate. As soon as Vegeta said he supassed Gohan due to him slacking off training that should make it obvious that Vegeta was a SSJ2. Do people honestly beleive Vegeta supassed SSJ2 Gohan with only SSJ1? Also do people honestly beleive that Vegeta who was a genious couldn't attain SSJ2 after 7 years of constant training?

yes he was already able to transform to ss2 the manga supports this very very plainly, idk why this is still a debate

When goku Turned against Yahkon vegeta himself said. “So you too have broken through the super saiyan barrier” implying he himself has also done so. He wasn’t commenting on that he was mad or jealous or angry but that goku was holding back. Aka he knew goku had ssj2 and wasn’t upset because he also had it.

He definitely did because he would have been so pissed if he saw Goku did but he didn’t during the Yakon fight.

Vegeta turned Ssj2 like it was nothing, and Toriyama himself didn't make any huge dramatic scene of Vegeta turning into Ssj2 as if it were his first time. So even by illustration, it's clear that Toriyama is conveying this is not the first time Vegeta has turned Ssj2. He also writes this into the confident personality of Vegeta and how condescending he is of Gohan. Contrast this with how he is much more willing to sit back if he is weaker (like the times of the Cell arc). He was not patient at all when Gohan fought Dabura. Like the video says, Vegeta was feeling confident in fighting Goku during the tournament before they were interrupted by Babidi. If Vegeta only had mastered Super Saiyan 1 (which is what Goku had 7 years ago), he would NOT feel confident to fight Goku. Vegeta believes Goku's Ssj2 is probably stronger once we get to see Goku fight Yakon. If Vegeta got Ssj2 from Babidi's mind control, Toriyama would've mentioned it.

I’d say vegeta’s Body acclimated to the majin boost And he retained the same level of power when he fought kid boo…even without the mark. Same as with goku and the God ritual

Vegeta was able to go ssj2 because he was an introvert.

Another thing that might've helped Vegeta to reach SSJ2 was that years ago he did take note of Goku and Gohan's training but was initially too stubborn to accept it. He never tried to master the regular SSJ state (despite knowing the benefits) when he trained in the hyperbolic time chamber the second time as he was more likely obsessed with trying to surpass Goku with his own methods before the Cell Games. Given SSJ2 is a direct evolution of the mastered super saiyan state it would make sense for Vegeta to possibly eventually reach it by reluctantly accepting Goku's method during the seven year gap. In the end as you rightly say Vegeta wanted Babidi's magic to bridge the gap between his and Goku's SSJ2 forms. There's no way he would imply he was stronger than Gohan if he hadn't reached SSJ2 already. Doesn't matter if Gohan slacked off over the years as Gohan was still SSJ2 so no doubt Vegeta had to be SSJ2 before the majin boost.

Great video , very informative and great look at details. I always believed this.

I think all these arguments are diminished by the fact that we're supposed to believe SSj2 is only 2x stronger than Grade 4. Before the Super Exciting Guide came out in 2007 and stated this multiplier, everyone had SSj2 at like 5-8x SSj1. Then it was really a difficult gap to close without having the transformation. With 2x? Not so much. Still, of course Vegeta could use SSj2 before the Babidi boost, that much is pretty obvious from the manga. Even if it weren't, there is not a single hint that Babidi's power up unlocked this extra form for Vegeta, since he transforms quickly and normally just like Goku does.

Vegeta when gohan became ssj2 in the tournament at the beginning of buu saga:"He (Gohan) is way stronger when he fought cell"-means Vegeta know the extent of ssj2 because he already achieved it.

Short answer, yes! Otherwise he wouldnt be berating Gohan constantly during the latter's fight with Dabura. You wouldn't berate someone stronger than you

Yeah, it's honestly strange how this misinformation has propagated through the DB fanbase, I don't know if it maybe has something to do with the Funi dub? This is a good analysis on the in universe statements in the manga, but I would like to present the Daizenshuu 7 entry on SSJ2: 「This form has power that surpasses Super Saiyan in all ways. Gohan naturally transformed into this form through his anger at Cell's brutal actions, while Goku and Vegeta learned it through harsh training.」 So as you can see, Vegeta specifically attained SSJ2 from training, and not from Babidi's boost.

Vegeta could go SS2, but I believe the quality of it wouldn't be on the same level as Goku without the help of the Majin seal. The gap probably is still the same as it was at the end of Cell games, if not slightly wider.

At first, I wasn't on board with you saying Vegita wanted to instigate the Babidi boost, but it actually makes sense. It seems like a crisis of identity for him. Babidi was an opportunity to test himself against Goku if he had remained an evil douche bag. It was a way to get closure about his value had he made different choices in his life. Vegeta is Vegeta's biggest problem, and I really like this idea as a path for character growth. Now he knows that he isn't actually that much stronger than what he could have been.

Haven't watched the video but the answer is yes. And I think it's pretty well known. Still appreciate any dragon Ball content that isn't obnoxious or copyCat stuff.

If Vegeta was not a Super Saiyan 2 before Babidi's spell, then that would put Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta at more than 2x stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Gohan since he was already stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Gohan. But since he's not, that means Vegeta had Super Saiyan 2 before Babidi's spell.

Heres the thing once vegeta and goku seen the ssj2 and felt its power naturally they would be able to train for it and obtain it.

3:08 Man he roasted Kabiito who got slaughtered.

If he wasnt a super saiyan 2 pre babidi that means he was a monster when it came to strength

I believe Vegeta was more powerful when he fought kid Buu and you were mistaken saying he was weaker, simply because his fight with Goku did exhaust him to the point of a zenkai boost. That's why he needed a sensu bean. He hates taking senzu beans and he only takes them when absolutely necessary meaning he was completely drained and beaten badly enough for a zenkai. Also different zenka's give different amounts of power level increases depending on the situation at hand and the amount of power needed and understood by the Saiyan prior to the boost. Just my opinion in this regard.

Why in the hell would Vegeta not have Super Saiyan 2 after seven years of training?

I never thought about it at all but I guess I always knew because I remember him saying Gohan was weaker than him and Goku now.

The spell just enhanced his pride ki

I mean there's nothing that clearly says he transformed into super saiyan 2. It's not out of the question that Vegeta could have raised the power of super saiyan passed the level of Gohan's super saiyan 2 in 7 years. Up to that point super saiyan 2 wasn't even called super saiyan 2 yet so I don't think Toriyama really knew what he wanted to do before that battle with Goku.

Let’s be real. Vegeta was able to become ssj2. Even future trunks in the video games achieved it

Without watching the video, yes.

Vegeta wanted the boost to be able to keep up w goku & possibly beat him but he knows goku always get the edge on him

Your Vegeta Impression is light weight on point😂

Good Video, Don't know if I agree the "Majin Vegeta was stronger than SSj2 Vegeta while fighting Kid Boo." When he fought Fat Boo he clearly had broken the spell but still had the power.. I think its his now.

It just wouldn't make sense for vegeta to not obtain it over those years. He just was shocked kakarot obtained it also so kakarot was a bit over vegeta from training in other world. He knew there was a difference in power cause kakarot actually trained in other world and him having unlimited stamina allowed him to traim effectively. Vegeta just closed that gap with the majin mark. Now heres the icing on the cake vegeta obtain ssj god off screen right? So whats the problem with this scenario? ...

vegeta be like. who cares about ssj2. if my ssj1 is on par with ssj2

I could've told you that just from the Budokai games playing with Base Characters at certain States.

Yes within the 7 years of training.

Also when you first see vegeta transform into ssj2 he did it instantly, every single time we see a saiyain access a new level of super saiyan it also takes them a while. It’s only after testing it out multiple times can they do it so easily

Yes. babs just give him a power boost

so basically SSJ2 Goku = SSJ2+Majin Boost Vegeta > SSJ2 Vegeta(without boost) > SSJ2 Gohan(against Cell).

I always knew this

I don't think vegeta only aquire the majin charm to just be on par with super Saiyan 2 goku i think he did it because he wanted to actually close the gap between them and it did to a certain extent if pay close attention to the fight, super Saiyan 2 majin Vegeta still had a slight edge. Also, i believe super Saiyan 2 vegeta without the majin charm vs super Saiyan 2 Goku is equal at best.

Yes he could, there’s a lot of proof. But he took Babadi’s power to tap into his “I don’t give a fuck” side

I've also believed he already possessed the ability to turn Super Saiyan 2. When Vegeta faces Goku after destroying the tournament arena and killing a ton of people on the stands, the both of them move locations, then Goku turns Super Saiyan 2 to face Vegeta. In the anime at least, after this display, Vegeta is slightly amused and says: "Well, at least you're stronger than your son was against Cell." Then Vegeta immediately powers up to Super Saiyan 2 himself. I don't believe he would have the confidence, or made a comment like that towards Goku if he couldn't have transformed already. My guess is like yours, Babidi's magic closed the gap between them a bit, but DID NOT give Vegeta the ability to transform into Super Saiyan 2. He already had the power.

The problem was that Goku's SS2 was stronger than Vegeta's SS2. He wanted his own potential unleashed like Yamu and spopovitch. Goku had a head start with Grade4, 7 years back. But vegeta didn't realize Goku's Dead immortal body was why Goku was so strong.

Nice breakdown! This proves why Goku'll always be stronger than Vegeta at the end of the day.

Yes

I can't believe that it's almost half of 2024 and people still debate this non issue 😂😂 Think about it, if Vegeta couldn't achive SSJ2 before the majin spell, but he knew he was stronger than SSJ2 kid gohan and thus cell, surely could vaporize dabura as he is weaker than cell, so a SSJ1 vegeta would be at SSJ2 Gohan level, which is impossible by that time. Vegeta going SSJ2 would put him at SSJ3 Goku's level, if SSJ1 Vegeta was SPC Cell level 😂😂😂

I just think it’s more narratively fitting for him to get the transformation after the magic

Yes. He already knew it. The daizenshu also says it.

Goku reach ssj2 but because he surpass ssj2 with his ssj3 form his ssj2 is much stronger than vegeta ssj2 vegeta reach ssj2 form 2 but he know after he saw goku power against yakon he realized his ssj2 is inferior to Goku ssj2 so he allowed babide to get a boost of his ssj2, so when he became Majin vegeta he ssj2 now is the same ore much stronger than goku ssj2, what vegeta didn't know goku has another form ssj3,

Vegeta v goku, vegeta says the reason for him letting abide take control of him, and it’s because he wanted to be evil again, he didn’t want to be an earthling and all that. He could def go ss2 BEFORE!!!

So if you recall, Gohan is clearly fighting Dabura as a Super Saiyan 2. Dabura is about the same Strength as Super Perfect Cell. Gohan, much weaker than his teen counter part, had trouble with Dabura. This makes sense. Now Remember Vegeta's words? Vegeta stated he should have fought Dabura because he knew he was strong enough to defeat Dabura. Yes, Vegeta is of course able to turn Super Saiyan 2.

You are right on 99% of what you said. The one percent you are wrong on is Vegeta never lost any power level. I can prove it.

Technically it's a mental amp because he states he was back to his roots a ruthless Saiyan

It feels like if Goku had told him that he could go beyond SSJ2, he wouldn't have let Babidi control him to close the gap as it wouldn't have helped him reduce the gap.

The answer is OBVIOUS. Yes he had SSJ2 b4 Majin.

This debate was kinda a waste of time. Dragon ball super pretty much shows you that he can at least keep up with goku blue . What that beast mode hit for is the real question

Oh, and Vegeta kept Babidi's power up after dying

Goku achieved a higher grade SS2 than Vegeta that’s why he needed Babidi to level the playing field.

So why not wish for a power boost if your gonna submit for an unearned powerboost

Fact of the matter he never goes ssj2 until babidi all you guys are speculating

Vegeta kept his majin power boost when he came back to life he was equal to Goku aside from Super Saiyan 3 Goku

It took him 3 years to become a ssj why wouldn't he get ssj 2 in 7...plus he made statements left and right how he was stronger than Gohan

In my opinion vegeta is with Majin booster ssj 2.5 yes ssj 3 is indeed stronger but ssj goku vs vegeta is equal oder maybe vegeta is stronger

Obviously

*Vegeta vs Kid Buu is way stronger than Majin Vegeta. Vegeta got alot of hits in. Piccolo says Gotenks is Super Buus equal. Goku is stronger than Gotenks & Super Buu cause Supreme Kai says Kid Buu was the strongest form. Vegeta did good vs Kid Buu. Fat Buu did a little better vs Kid Buu than Vegeta did.*

yes vegeta ss2 power level is most likely onpar with kid gohan and stronger than kid gohan and equal to goku after the majin boost.

It seems like you cannot get it organically on earth conditions. Gohan achieved it in the time chamber realm & Goku in the spirit world & Trunks with the z sword in the kai realm fighting a demon & Vegeta in a gravity room.

I think vegeta did have ssj2 but his wasn't as good as gokus he was prob between like cell games gohans ssj2 form and gokus ssj2 so that's probably why he was upset/jealous when he got a glimpse of gokus power.

Why is this even a question.

Why are people still talking about this

I was okay with that until you said Majin Vegeta is stronger then dead ssj2 Vegeta ... Did we forget about zenkai boosts ?

Bull shit nobody ever said that u lose ur powered once ur no longer under Babidi's spell

Is kid buu the weakest buu that’s the real question

How do you know if Vegeta needed to go ssj2 to surpass Gohan's own ssj2? He could have possibly been able to go ssj his power level could be between high school gohan's ssj2 and cell saga gohan's ssj2

Man you cant compare the manga to the anime its different stories smh

I want to belive tht vegeta knew ssj2 before babidi but the issue here is what vegeta said. "Maybe it would close the distance between us" never was this implying tht vegeta was close enough to achieving strentgh of ssj2 before babidi IF anything it was further implying tht vegeta could not achieve ssj2 without babidi and he was trying to close the distance by acheiving ssj2 and being on his level.Vegeta stating goku is more gifted then him basicly states tht he couldnt go sjj2 and he saw that when he saw goku powering up to ssj2 against babidid monster as vegeta states.when he gets ssj2 from babidi goku says we are now even now. then vegeta when he talks about strentgh he was talking about his own training as they get stronger even base form compared to 7 years ago. 7 years ago ssj vegeta would lose to buu base vegeta .your implying all the text thinking tht vegeta already knew ssj2 when in reality he did not achieve it and yes he did get strong enough to destory cell but in regular ssj form

vegeta fans are so delusional. man got bullied 80% of the time in Z

How can anyone even argue this? Vegeta could not go Ss2 before becoming Majin Vegeta. It's no secret that Gohan didn't train for 7years after cell. Vegeta isn't trying to hint he can go Ss2, he's straight out telling Gohan "youve gotten weaker". If Vegeta was able to go Ss2, there would be no reason or need to join babidi

My take on Vegeta.... Vegata was strong enough to go ss2 just need a burst of rage not hold him back he really want to spare with Goku and be the better man with the babidi spell he can reach his full ss2 state without nothing holding him back

Why are people still debating this, obviously he could go ssj2 before babidi ☠️

Lol another rubbish video out there... Vegeta was probably on the edge of ssj 2 but not quit there, Vegeta did stop training for a short while as it shows trunks talking about vegeta stopping after gohan killed cell in the bojack film and vegeta passed trunks his sword as he was fighting bojack. the reason he was belittling gohan was to get dabura's attention. To get babidi to use his magic on vegeta. But you even stated yourself in this video dabura's was the same power level of cell which gave adult gohan a hard time which shows how much power gohan has lost... As a teenager gohan was alot stronger, so I think vegeta with his ego and his killer saiyan instincts would beat adult gohan and dabura with his experience. But don't forget back in the dbz time vegeta always found it hard to beat someone like rackon, frieza, android 18, and cell and it was either goku or gohan had that upper edge and vegeta hated that as he was the prince of all saiyans which he explains whilst Fighting goku. And he knew to get back that edge he needed babidi to awaken the evil in vegeta heart. And you try justifying his super saiyan 2 against kid buu, well at that point babidi had already unlocked his power 😂😂 Terrible video, your in need of rewatching the dbz saga and the films 😂😂😂

da-bra???? have you watched the show? "Da-boor-a" come on

SMH... Let me break down something to ya'll so that you understand how this works. Kay? Super Saiyan is a rare ability. I know it doesn't feel like that because we see it being commonly used in the show and manga but there is a reason for this. Everyone who can do it is related to both Vegeta and Goku. Vegeta being a direct line of ROYALITY to the Saiyan blood lines. While Goku is just naturally talented because main character awesomeness. Majority of Saiyans could not reach super levels because of two simple factors. Their powers never growing higher than 5000-10000 and their emotional capabilities. Saiyans were naturally bred to suppress their natural emotions because they felt it held them back in battle. Yet we know to achieve Super Saiyan you need a certain power level and an emotional need. Goku's was desperation of survival. While Vegeta came to terms with his limitations, and his own self-hatred is what set it off. Now that we got that out of the way lets go into further detail. Despite Vegeta and Goku being special guys with the inherit ability to transform. They are still physical beings who are limited by their physical bodies. Its already been established that your average Saiyan warrior couldn't easily go Super. Now they are also limited by being full blooded Saiyans. A full blooded Saiyan has a lot of advantages but their over all potential is nothing when compared to a half Saiyans and Vegeta at one time even admits this. Gohan, Trunks, and Goten all share the unique quality of being half Saiyans. This is why despite Goku and Vegetas efforts to push themselves during the Cell saga (in the room where you can get YEARS of training in days) could not turn Super Saiyan 2 but Gohan could. Yet half Saiyans do not have the fighting spirit that a full blooded Saiyan do so despite having great potential. Its a lot more difficult for them to bring it out if they lack the need for battle. Trunks and Goten become Super Saiyans very young because their rivalry between one another pushed them to be better and thus their natural potential lead them to transforming. But then you are probably saying to yourself "well that doesn't make sense because Goku AND Vegeta DO become SSJ2" and you are right but you are right by TECHNICALITY. Goku died. He was no longer limited by his physical body and because of that he was able to discover not just Super Saiyan 2 but Super Saiyan 3. Super Saiyan 3 can't even be achieved by normal means. So Vegeta, not even Gohan could do it and yet Goku, Trunks and Goten can do it because why? Goku discovered it because again, he was dead and no longer limited by physical restraints. Trunks and Goten can only do it while fused. A fused body is special with different physical limitations. (I will say that because Goku and Vegeta both went way beyond their natural limits due to the God transformations in Super that it is possible for Vegeta to go 3 but just chooses not to.) We also know these physical restraints exist because Goku clearly states that it is harder for him to use Super Saiyan 3 while alive compared to when he was dead. So your question is; Can Vegeta go Super Saiyan 2 before going Majin? The answer is no because he needed the magic to push him beyond his regular limits. Its true that Vegeta WAS still stronger than Gohan and Cell without Super Saiyan 2 but to get to Goku's then "unfathomable" level, Vegeta needed the magic to physically grant him Super Saiyan 2 for his power boost. You seem to be under the false impression that a forms level debates the power of a user. This is proven false because Gohan's SSJ2 during Buu Saga is weaker than when he first powered up in Cell Saga. So despite Vegeta being trapped at level 1.5, he could still beat Gohan's level 2. Vegeta trained nonstop for 7 years and yet despite that he could not achieve Goku's level of ability. Why? Because Goku is naturally talented yes, but also because he was dead and no longer had physical limitations. Goku during the Buu saga is extremely strong. Yet he holds back because he wants to fight fair. Super Buu is the only threat to Goku. Vegito>>>>>Gohan Buu>Gotenks Buu>Goku>Kid Buu>Gohan Unlocked>Gotenks/Super Buu>Vegeta (after Majin)>Fat Buu>Vegeta>Dabra>Gohan>Trunks/Goten

I'm so confused on how videos like this get so many views