Girl Gone with the Wind You good because No Ma'am. I just can't and won't. It got backlash but it still got the Pulitzer Prize and the National Book Award. I was reading Habibi a couple of years ago And I rushed through it but hated the depiction of women and of Islam. I didn't like it and I said so when I reviewed it. I I feel as if you should read what you can take. If you can't take it then stop. I don't feel as if you have to go through all of that when there are largely better books out there about slavery. Funny I saw a review where someone was affirming that it was historically accurate. I guess you could say accurate in the sense that slave owners didn't feel like black people were people. The example you gave sounds to be a clear and cut case of Mitchell not being able to hide her true feelings. Thanks for this discussion! I really enjoyed it. It's a tough one.

I think it's important to be unapologetic about removing oneself from harmful or reprehensible narratives. There are so many examples of this that I experience in my own life, and a lot of the time I find myself in these situations where I'm looking around (either literally or metaphorically) to these people around me, as if to see if this isnt also troubling to them. I say that there is no need to expose yourself to--let alone align your tastes in literature with--ideas that are so contrary to the work that you do as an individual. (To better your understanding of the world, race relations, etc.) To be complacent with such passive racism, whether or not it is acclaimed, is to undermine ones own efforts to be more than someone who relies on herd mentality and antiquated caricatures of real people (as opposed to critical thought and analysis).

I felt the same way about the depiction of black people in Fried Green Tomatoes. In a live discussion I had with other book club members a couple of years ago I brought this up, how it pissed me off, and I remember the response was just like you mentioned, "Oh, it's the time period." I felt like my concerns over that were dismissed. It is incredibly frustrating. To answer your question, I found Fried Green Tomatoes offensive but didn't put it down simply because I knew we were going to have the live show and wanted to have read it all the way through so that we I could discuss it in full. Usually, if I find a piece offensive in any way it won't be something I love.

I'm late to the conversation, just found your channel. I think the question for me is what is considered a classic and why. It's a classic but for who exactly, who gets to decide that. I wouldn't discourage anyone from reading the book but in personally not going to. There are so many great reads, I just wouldn't put myself through that.

I like how you articulated that your issue is when the isms come from author rather than the characters; often find myself making the same distinction. However, sometimes it is hard because characters are often an extension of the author's beliefs. I have found it really useful to read books (written in other time periods in particular) to better understand how people like the author think/thought and felt about a topic. In particular, the way history articulates imperialism and wars changes dramatically whether it is an account reflecting on the older time period or something written during the event. Accounts of the civil and revolutionary wars have changed a lot even in just the last 25 years. To this end, I feel like Gone with the Wind is a portrayal of how some white people thought about the civil war. From it I learned more about how some whites thought they were being benevolent to their slaves and in particular how they really felt that their slaves should want to stay with them. While I think a modern writer could discuss these topics with more finesse, reading the way that an author thought about them in their own time period can provide insight into how our history (and how we tell our history) has changed over time. That said, of course their are certain problematic portrayals that are harder for me personally to read. Or that are hard to read at a certain time. I am not sure I could read Gone with the Wind right now. In general, I think part of the answer for me is to separate my enjoyment of reading a book from what I like and dislike about the writing, story, and characters (not always possible). I know a lot of people see them as throw away but I really like publishing groups that add intros to older works to give both some history and some context. I when I read Gone with the Wind a friend of my mom's gave me an essay that discussed the history of mistralization of African Americans and the backlash to the book and the author's response. For me the most rewarding thing about reading is learning how to see the world from other points of view especially those I completely disagree with. It is really hard to think about perspectives that are completely anathema to your own world view if you are never exposed to them. I think there still might be a lot of white people who don't understand what a mistral depiction of a slave looks like or how problematic the chosen one or the good ones mentality can be maybe by reading something like Gone with the Wind and having some context there might be better understanding. (I am also terrified that reading books with these kind of portrayals normalizes problematic beliefs and behaviors which I guess is why we have to try to read critically)

This video was fantastic. I have been having these similar thoughts while reading Huckleberry Finn. The thoughts are similar to those I had while reading Me Before You by JoJo Moyes, a story whose depiction of disability is extremely problematic. My approach is usually to finish the book, because I feel the best way to combat a problematic piece is to criticize it in an informed way which only comes, typically, from finishing the piece in its entirety. However, I also acknowledge that part of why it has been so easy for me to finish Huck Finn and MBY in particular is because, like you mentioned, I do not belong to either of the groups being misrepresented (although I do believe that Huck Finn is a story about a boy navigating a complicated world of racism, religion, and other societal flaws, and therefore has more merit than a story like MBY in which none of the characters or readers learn are forced to navigate or learn about anything being discussed in the story). Great video!

A book can be a painting of the time or setting it was written in as well as the writer's mindset, and while it may be great and not impervious to critique, it may still hold good technical qualities (prose, plot, structure etc)Whenever I come across something like that, I take time to analyse it and try to distinguish if it's done out of bigotry, ignorance, or actual artistic and literary purposes, and to add to the cognitive dissonance, I cant just arrive to a conclusion of a text not being offensive without taking into consideration those who are being offended. I don't think it's as easy as black and white when it comes to a morality scale, literature rides a very wide grey area, especially older works. Sometimes it is clear that an author is prejudiced or ignorant and it reflects on the writing, and these aggression if done on purpose, should not just be brushed over, it's important to take time to acknowledge them, but other times an author might write something offensive because they are trying to portray a real moment, meaning they want to show racism, they want to show rape, they want to show genocide. these are things that exist and artists shouldn't shy away from them. This of course brings up that other issue of whether a writer is speaking from a knowledgeable place, and how far should a writer go when trying to portray these things, and whether they do it tastefully. As for Gone With The Wind you aren't the only person that it's taken a toll on, I've heard many people say they can't finish it, great film, but quite honestly I'm not very interested in reading it. Sorry for the wall of text, but this is something I often think about as well and haven't had the chance to discuss.

Interestingly, I never really bad this problem with William Faulkner (despite him being problematic in his ways), but this definitely came into effect with Flannery O'Connor. I was in the middle of reading her first short story collection and made the mistake of also reading her published book of correspondence letters called The Habit of Being. I almost quite my reading of her entirely, but persevered. It wasn't just her racism, but her general nastiness and prejudice to almost everyone that made me reconsider her. I'm not sure I will go back to reading her.

My goodness, Sis. I have never read GWTW, but I have seen the movie, and I've heard many people talk of their love for it, but I know due to the time period that is based on and who the main characters that are in it, it wouldn't be a good book for me to read without feeling some kind of way. but I also understand that "good/great" books are supposed to inspire feelings in the reader be it good or bad. What grinds my gears is that they are so quick to label these books as "classics" and on turn if you haven't read them you could be considered not "well read". I enjoy the thrill of a Stephen King book, but the frequency of certain racial slurs sometimes hurts the whole process, and I have been one of those people who just skips over it, and then I feel guilty for doing it, for letting it slide and not taking a stand. like slave narratives for example, I am so utterly exhausted with the amount of slave narratives and movies that have been shown in the last couple of years. that I have put a personal boycott on them. Has that limited me to only reading certain things? maybe. but I can't keep swallowing the pill of "our whole ancestry is slavery" There are books that I love, that yes have their problems, but I think again, and ask myself questions about it and the terms or situations that were seen and I ask myself, "could the author have done this differently? and if they did would it have had the same affect?" Honestly, if something you are reading is really rubbing you raw , don't finish it, there are so many other things that you can be reading.

"Gone with the wind" was the first book that popped into my mind! I read it as a young teen and I don't think I was really aware back then how many -isms it contained - I was focused on the romance and the suspense. But when I read it again as an adult, I was appalled and repulsed, and I simply couldn't say: "Oh, that's just how it was back then!" and like the book regardless - I HATED it.

I have so many things to say. This is a great video. I think this brings up the concept of framing. How we approach and contextualize the story is important. Personally, I consider it sort of a lesson in ‘knowing thine enemy.’ My dad once told me he sees novels as a look into the way the author sees the world. Reading problematic works gives us a look into the world as seen by problematic people and that can be a helpful perspective. And I think taking into account the time period should not be grounds to ignore what’s offensive about a piece of media. I think reckoning with these perspectives and thinking about how the time period may have fed into that perspective can enrich that experience and understanding. By maintaining that critical look we can get even more from the piece than it was originally worth. It can be a sort of reclamation, too. We can turn it into satire (sort of) by choosing to see it as ridiculous, or misinformed, and choosing to expand our understanding of a warped perspective. I cannot think of a book or anything that I’ve put down. On the other hand, I remember on a 5hr bus ride once I went back and rewatched the movie Robots(2005). It was a fun film, as I remembered, but it also contained the “man in a dress” gag(alternatively spelled “Transmisogyny”). That part of the movie was really distressing to me and muddied the whole experience. I finished the movie because it made the bus ride faster, but it wasn’t a super enjoyable experience because even the parts I liked felt tainted, but that’s almost unavoidable. There’s so much oppressive ideology baked into everything. One of my favorite books is called Invisible Monsters by Chuck Palahniuk. It’s a book with several trans women in it, but it’s not always great about how they’re represented. My biggest issue is the way it hyper-focuses on their ‘masculine’ features. But the book also has the trans women be characters, so it’s sort of a mixed experience. And there’s definitely truth that it’s easier to keep reading something when its problematic aspects aren’t directed at you. One of my favorite books, Lost at Sea by Bryan Lee O’Malley, uses the R-word once or twice, and it’s easier for me to continue through the book than people who that slur is directed at. I try to frame it in my head as making sense for the characters because they’re all sort of immature, but I still know it’s not cool that the word is in there and is never held up to critique. As a writer, when I read things that are sexist or homophobic or transphobic, I like to think of it as an act of reclaiming. I’m looking at a piece and trying to learn more writing craft all the time with the end goal of taking what I learn and creating awesome trans-woman-positive work. I guess, at the end of the day, there’s no easy way to interact with problematic works. And the question gets at the larger idea: how do we interact with problematic culture? Because that’s what literature is, it’s a part of culture. How do we interact with oppressive systems in productive ways? (550 words later...sorry for the essay, but you really set my train of thought rolling)

GREAT discussion and video, I am glad I just stumbled upon your channel. The absolute first thing that came to mind with this topic was the Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. We all know this commonly required high school reading, and I couldn't help but be reminded about the heated debate in America on whether or not the N word should still be used. Mark Twain refers to the slaves as the N word throughout the entire novel and if I remember correctly, there was a motion to revise the book to replace that N word for 'slave'. In this type of context, I actually side with keeping the N word. And that may seem blatantly offensive in itself, but the way I see it, in order for us to be able to move on and improve upon the issues in our society we have to be able to see the problems of our past. And this novel's use of the word is like an instant reminder to all those reading it that, oh wow this is how things were. The older texts in literature, specifically American literature, to me are important pieces of our history. I just think it is important we realize when something is a BAD piece of history. So for Huck Finn, I appreciate that novel because I grasp a better understanding of society in America in the 1800s (I think that is when it took place but I may be wrong), yet I am also able to recognize and analyze how wrong the use of the word is. This convo can go on forever and ever because there is a lot to it, but I just really felt like discussing that N word debate because I really do think that can be included in the 'Reading Problematic Literature' discussion. It is definitely a struggle trying to read a book with any racism or prejudice and separate judgement on the quality of writing and judging the presence of racism- putting them together then trying to give a rating is very hard.

Great discussion video! I have finished several books that come to mind that are problematic for me. The Help is one of them. I couldn't fathom why this book was being held as a masterpiece while perpetuating every negative sterotype about African Americans. I finished the book for a book club discussion in which I was in the minority who was troubled by the content. A book I read this year, Sold by Patricia McCormick centers on child sex trafficking in Nepal. I was fine with the book until the author introduced a white American to "save" the main character from trafficking.

i love this channel

It's funny you brought this up. I recently finished a book that was set right after the slaves were freed. The racist things said and how some of the black people were described made me want to throw the book and I almost quit reading a couple of times. The author was black but said in an interview that he wrote it that way to reflect the times. I understand he wanted to be as accurate as possible but it doesn't change the fact that I was bothered by it. I ended up finishing it and it was a good book overall but I wouldn't reread it and im hesitant to read books like that because to me it's draining and frustrating. I think books like this are necessary but I'm going to limit myself to them.

4:39 - 5:39 YES!!!

I've never read Gone with the wind, though my mom told me it was my grandmother's favorite book. I'm not exactly sure how to feel about that now. I have read Peter Pan though but didn't read that until I was in my 20s and did notice the racism and sexism in it. I sort of understand it's old and a "product of it's time" but it still bugged me...even though i'm not native american. Reading problematic Literature...it's difficult to know what to do with it because pretty much everything is problematic in some way. Because people are. And something can have problematic aspects but also have good aspects too. I don't think either should take away from the other but people do need to realize how hurtful things can be. I am white but I am also disabled and bisexual. I get so pissed off at ableism and biphobia (ableism is why I will never pick up Me Before You, I've heard what happens and I only mention it because I saw another comment mention it) because I am a part of those groups. When one is a part of said group that's getting hurt it's more personal. I wish people could remember that for groups they aren't a part of, just because it doesn't hit them personally doesn't mean it doesn't other people. We should be able to talk about problematic aspects without people thinking we are attacking them for liking something problematic as nothing is perfect but we can't do better if we don't talk about the issues. I hope i'm saying this right. It also reminds me of Dracula. I noticed the sexism in it, and I am a woman but I kept reading because "it's a product of it's time" and i'm sure it is, but it also bored me so much i'm surprised I finished it. And I like horror and vampires (so I thought i'd love Dracula...I was wrong). I apologize if I ramble or anything. Loved the video

Great points brought up. It gets tiring even in literature today that little stereotypical, not necessarily racist, descriptions or characters are found in books. It depends on the overall story and plot if I finish. L

Problematic books are my - I have never gotten past page 50 reading Gone With the Wind. I am prepared for the worst. I brace myself for the worst and when the worst comes, I get upset and the internal storm brews to the point where the book gets tossed across the room. Ditto for Tom Sawyer/HuckFinn. I wish I could get lost In the language and forgo the time period and circumstances during the books publication but I am not there. I do want to finish GWTW and the Twain books but I need to have some distance to appreciate the stories. This is brought to you by the letter w as in worst. :)

I saw a discussion of this book last week, on KZfaq and the group Romaticized the hell out of this book. When one commentator said "oh slavery was terrible, but weren't the plantations pretty, and oh the ball gowns!" and waxed poetic about the southern lifestyle being aspirational I almost keeled over. I've never read this book and I've been putting it off for years. I have a knee jerk reaction to things like this and have quit several books that upset me, lol, so I can't be a hypocrite and tell you to finish when I would have thrown it out of the window. Lol. Oddly enough this is a book I'd like to read at some point.

I think I left a comment on your last video where you were talking about reading Gone With the Wind so I might be repeating myself, I apologise. I don't think I've read anything - by choice - that is so blatant in it's ism as Gone with the Wind; I haven't read it, but I'm basing that on what I know of it, and the examples you gave in the video. I had to read a book in high school called The Cay that I remember being really repulsed by because of it's racism, and I think I've tried to block it out of my mind because it was a horrible reading experience. That said, I think when faced with any sort of bigotry within a book, I try to look at it from multiple angles - is it from the voice of a character? are we the reader led to see the fault of that character, or is it glorified and championed? is it coming from the narration, thus the author? All those questions will definitely dictate how I speak about it when referencing the piece. And even if I enjoy a book, I try to call it out for what it is. Regardless of those questions, I think it always makes me uncomfortable because just as people defend authors and characters because of their past time, I am existing in 2016 and I personally can't read that sort of thing without having some natural feeling of disgust, anger, disappointment, revulsion, etc. It's interesting that you brought up Peter Pan. I think I said in my comment last time that I was frustrated, but not too surprised that I'd seen people championing the book without a single comment about the racist portrayals. I feel really similar about Peter Pan. I see many people touting it as a childhood favourite, and I have to wonder if it's nostalgia that is clouding the acknowledgement of the racism, or if they would not mention it regardless. I think a lot of people - in this age of "fangirling" - struggle to feel comfortable picking faults of things they love. They seemingly equate criticism, no matter how fair or constructive, with hate. But I think it also speaks something if nothing is said, if that makes sense.

For me I think I draw the line when the racism or sexism is the point of the book rather than a peripheral issue. Like for example I can't stand Witches of Eastwick because Updike wrote it with the goal of shitting on feminists. It's a really tough topic to draw a firm line in the sand about, I guess in general it can still be interesting to read these books in a historical context or to challenge our ideas about what is and is not okay in literature, but at the same time I think it is totally valid to not enjoy books that represent offensive and outdated ideals. Great discussion topic I'm definitely going to creep in the comments and see what everyone else says.

I think it's up to you to decide if you want to finish it. I definitely know what you mean here. I had trouble reading She by H. Rider Haggard because he was ethnocentric and misogynistic and he infused those characteristics in his protagonist, Holly. It was difficult to read but I was determined to complete it just to see what's so great about the story and how it's written. I took breaks while reading to make it through the book.

You raise such important issues about literature in your videos. I think many readers have the ability to read with detachment. They place the piece into an historical context and read it from that perspective. Others find it impossible to bear the cruelty for commerce imbedded into the narrative. I stop reading immediately if I smell pandering.

This is why I've avoided reading Gone With the Wind. I know it's going to piss me off. As you've stated, with the way things are in America, now is not the time to read something like that. I don't know if I will ever be ready to read this book. As far as giving Margaret Mitchell a pass because of the time period Gone With the Wind was set in, Im not too sure I would. She was a wealthy southern debutante who's family lived through the Civil War and told her stories about it religiously. So it wouldn't surprise me if the way she wrote the Black characters represented how she actually felt about Blacks.

Damn, this is tough. I put down Twilight and Gone With The Wind because I found them both offensive AND boring, but I finished Peter Pan because while the segment with the Native Americans was godawfully offensive, the rest of the book was completely fantastic. Like a big gross wriggling maggot in an otherwise delicious apple.

I am so confused about this. I just finished Peter Pan, and the book is so sweet and dark and just fantastic, but the representations of Native people are just bleeerrrggg. It is rough, I have no idea how to deal with it. I really want to read Gone With the Wind, but I don't think I can deal with it right now. Oh how funny...you are talking about Peter Pan now, lol. Ohmygosh, yes!! That scene is INSANE. I don't think I have not finished a book because it is offensive, but honestly I might not have noticed if I read something offensive a few years ago. I might take a peak at my read books and see if there is something there. I am curious. OH...MY...GOD. Are you serious???!?!?! I am not surprised you put the book down after that scene.