Do Putter Face Grooves And Inserts Make a Difference

Рет қаралды 16,470

3 жыл бұрын

Some falsely claim that putter face grooves and inserts Gear Effect the ball into the hole or that face milling gets putts rolling sooner. In this video I explain the purpose of face milling and putter face inserts and demonstrate again that Pyramid Grooves do not gear effect the ball.
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Hello! I’m John, Mister One Putt. I started this KZfaq channel to help you make more putts and share a little fun. In addition to putting tips drills and product reviews, I post the occasional fun video with golf humor or beverage cart shenanigans!
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#WhyDoPuttersHaveGrooves, #FaceMilling, #PutterFaceGrooves

Пікірлер: 44

@misteroneputt 3 жыл бұрын

Do Putter Face Grooves and Inserts really gear effect the ball into the hole? Does face milling actually make the ball roll sooner, straighter, and better? Absolutely not! Not physically or scientifically possible with a putter. So, Why do putters have grooves anyway? This video explains all of that and more.

@Lamster66 8 ай бұрын

I'd always assumed a face was milled to make it flatter. I've only just heard about the "Rolls better myth" which I was struggling to understand how that was meant to work. Hence finding your video I will slightly correct you, Weight is the result of gravity acting upon a mass. So on earth Weight and Mass in Kgs are the same thing. An object of mass 1Kg weighs 1kg under 1g= 9.81m/s^2 On the Moon under 1/6th gravity the same mass would weigh 166 grams I can see that by milling the face you reduce the contact area Which will not change the mass of the club hitting the ball F=MA but the reduced contact will alter pressure excerted /square inch on the ball which would possibly effect the feel of the contact.( making the ball bounce off with a softer feel maybe) As putting is all about feel if it improves feel then great. I still use the same spalding forged blade putter I learnt to putt with about 50 years ago as a kid. It just feels right.

@Flatstick. 2 жыл бұрын

Great video clip! Appreciate it. Thank you!

@malcolmcoull1240 2 жыл бұрын

Came here for this video, but seeing some of the others on the channel have subscribed - putting constantly lets me down so here's hoping for some useful tips.

@aimeagle Жыл бұрын

I'll just say this. It's basically impossible to hit two balls at the exact same time. However, I agree with your assessments. I have more than a few putters lol. I currently have a couple evroll putters, a ping heppler (smooth face), that one company that has white inserts, and older TM Rossa daytona. The putter I feel most confident with is the evnroll Trainer putter. Maybe it is because of the fact that it has the goofy neck on it but whatever it is I like it. I really 100% believe and have found the best putter is the one you have faith in! That along with practice and learning your particular path to the ball are the most important things in putting. Note!!! Reading greens and pace is more important than the actual putter will ever be!

@Lamster66 8 ай бұрын

Lol I played as a Kid and had an A.G.Spalding Forged blade putter. I outgrew my junior clubs and packed up playing. I just started playing again 6 months ago after over 40 years of not playing. I initially used my late fathers Accushnett bullseye and tried several putters Anser style Mallets and blades. Ended up withat least half a dozen putters that didn't feel right. Fortunately when I gave my junior clubs away I forgot to include the putter. I put a new grip on it and its back in my bag. It's not perfect becuse I'm a bit taller and fatter than I was as a young teen. So it feels like it ought to be a bit longer and a tad heavier. Otherwise it's perfect.

@StudioGMinistry Жыл бұрын

I really like my milled heavy mallet style putter I finally understood what they meant buy putting effortlessly around the green 😎❤️⛳

@rstar88105 2 жыл бұрын

So I have never even heard of “gear affect” before this video and that just seems bizarre. I can see the grooves or texture of the face providing a place for water or grass residue to go from the contact patch when playing like the way a car’s tire tread can improve the contact patch on a preventing hydro planning. Whereas a mirror smooth surface finish on a putter would be like racing slicks - best on a dry day and on a clean well prepared track. My question to you is I have an old stainless steel Ping Zing 2 that needs to be reworked (some nicks and scuffs) and with a basic machining background I plan to restore it. For the face of the putter after looking at an Ra(um) grinding surface finish chart, where would your target be? I am an amateur with a putting average of 2.1 this year.

@anthonygiuliano6574 Жыл бұрын

Is there an insert or the milled face that come off not as hot? I tend to hit the ball past the hole a lot

@misteroneputt Жыл бұрын

Not that I’m aware.

@-Thunder 2 жыл бұрын

I could see grooves clearing water on a damp day making for better contact. I could see an insert changing the COR or springiness of the face. Certainly they could change the sound. But overall... very skeptical of any other performance claim.

@misteroneputt 2 жыл бұрын

Exactly

@petermartinaitis8166 2 жыл бұрын

I found that on a wet day the grooves on a putter collected more grass and debris.

@robertsutton2407 13 күн бұрын

If I have groves that are damaged, dented in, scratched across the insert face etc. Does it matter? Is there a way to use a groove sharpener to repair putter grooves or some other tool?

@misteroneputt 12 күн бұрын

I would say the damage dented mangled grooves would have an impact because where the grooves are higher and lower that affects how much of the face contacts the ball. So things might wobble a little bit off-line. I would think you could straighten them out with a groove sharpener.

@robertsutton2407 12 күн бұрын

Yes I think it may too. I will attempt it but my TM Rossa 7 cgb has curved crossing grooves....could be tricky

@robertsutton2407 12 күн бұрын

Although they are aluminum I think so obviously soft.

@vicgeier3482 Ай бұрын

I have a putter that has no grooves but has gear effect, a clubmaker friend of mine had 300 cnc'd, some red wings players have them as I do. Put a ball on the heel and one on the toe and putt, the ball come together in the middle. Breeds Confidence is the name. Also, what do you think of descending loft putters? I have a Cobra with that and the roll is incredible.

@misteroneputt Ай бұрын

I think descending loft putters help a lot of people get the ball rolling faster

@vicgeier3482 Ай бұрын

I am best with my futura for direction, cobra 3d for roll and still getting used to my Honu

@TigerInTheWoods Жыл бұрын

I'm an average golfer everything depends on a person skills and abilities it's not about equipment. Even the most expensive clubs when it used, it doesn't mean you gonna beat the best player. Like going to the driving range, I've seen golfers hitting balls after balls w/o any information or knowledge on how to use specific club/s.

@YouNeedToHearThis Жыл бұрын

4:06 I don't agree that the test done here can be claimed to prove that heel or toe strikes don't affect ball path. Heel or Toe strikes twist the putter face during contact - by hitting off both the heel and the toe together, the twisting forces are canceled out.

@misteroneputt Жыл бұрын

I see your point and agree...but must also add that the ball is on the putter face such a brief time that twisting caused by heel or tie strikes doesn't affect ball direction...they do affect speed. My point with heel and toe strikes here is that putter grooves and milling don't gear effect the ball back on line.

@YouNeedToHearThis Жыл бұрын

@@misteroneputt Thanks for the reply, and for the great video!

@user-li7vu7nk2n Жыл бұрын

@@misteroneputt the claim is not that they affect the direction/gear effect, but rather the over spin of the ball? To say grooves don't affect spin is like saying the grooves on an iron have no effect on back spin which we all know is rubbish. It doesn't matter that the ball is in contact with the face for a fraction of a second, spin can still be imparted to the ball in that split fraction. With the white hot insert, saying it still contacts the metal of the putter therefore it negates the 'softening' effect of the putter is incorrect. You previously said that Scotty mills his face to reduce the amount of metal impacting the ball and this makes a difference to mass and feel... So why doesn't an insert limit the amount of metal impacting the ball and therefore the feel/mass as well?

@misteroneputt Жыл бұрын

The putter face may twist on impact but the ball does not dwell on the face long enough for that twisting to affect path. The ball is already gone by the time the face twists. It’s been proven in high tech labs

@misteroneputt Жыл бұрын

@@user-li7vu7nk2n certainly an insert does do that but why make an insert that only hits part of the ball ? Why not make the insert larger. And it’s been proven with slow motion cameras that grooves on a putter face do not affect spin. Putters are not irons and the swing is not the same

@robertsutton2407 16 күн бұрын

Will aluminum face with grooves be different than copper face with grooves

@misteroneputt 16 күн бұрын

I dont think so. The grooves simply soften the strike by applying less face to the ball...the ball doesnt compress into the grooves.

@robertsutton2407 15 күн бұрын

What about the mass of copper vs. Aluminum for the same size insert?

@misteroneputt 15 күн бұрын

@@robertsutton2407 obviously the weight is different, which would have the mass different, but I suspect that’s factored into the total weight of the putter

@robertsutton2407 15 күн бұрын

Yes I agree. I am changing out an insert face. Thus my question. Thanks

@tedp9945 2 жыл бұрын

Instant sub

@EricCartmenez1 2 жыл бұрын

evnroll, pyramid, taylormade, odyssey, ping, and now bettinardi all have their versions. The greatest putters and putter maker out there sticks to their (his) guns - face grooves don't affect the roll of the ball - loft does...Scotty Cameron has proven this through all of his patented high speed cameras at his studio....he's not selling ocean front property in Arizona, just makes the most well-balanced, best looking and feeling putters out there. I think i'll go with his opinion and not Guerin Rife...or anyone else spewing insert/groove technology.

@misteroneputt 2 жыл бұрын

Agree that grooves and inserts don't do the trick...dynamic loft at impact is the key. Agree that Scotty Cameron makes the best looking putters...cannot agree and can prove that 2 other brands, L.A.B. and Honu are more well balanced...then it is purely an opinion or preference, but I think the Honu feels better...not trying to argue here...

@peterkafieris992 2 жыл бұрын

If you hit two balls from the heel and toe at the same time are you not cancelling out the gear effect of each strike location. Better to just show either a toe or heel strike with a perfectly square face?

@misteroneputt 2 жыл бұрын

I see your point and in other videos, specifically the pyramid review video I have hit individual balls off both heel and toe and the ball did not gear effect. In fact, if the putter face is square the ball goes straight. There is no gear effect with a putter because the ball does not stay in contact with the putter face long enough for any grooves to influence the ball in that way. And if it was the grooves which were causing gear effect the two balls at the same time would gear into each other but they don't.

@ninpo1500 2 жыл бұрын

Correct Peter. Gear effect is named so because the action of the twisting of the face while in contact with the ball, because of the force of the ball imparting torque on the putter face... the result is an effect that acts like gears, the ball and the face of the club each rotating in opposite spin directions. This happens with any amount of friction, whether there are grooves or not. The club you'll notice this the most with is your driver, where most drivers purposefully have as little groves as possible. Hitting 2 balls of equal mass on opposite ends of the face cancels out a lot of the face twist you would otherwise get by hitting a single ball and is a very poor test in measuring gear effect.

@ninpo1500 2 жыл бұрын

I would agree with the author of the video though in gear effect having almost zero effect on most of your putts though just due to the low speeds and forces you are dealing with in the vast majority of putting... exceptions being very long putts... or putts from the fairway etc where you are whacking the ball pretty hard.. then for sure you'll get gear effect on off center hits.

@stephenperrone8694 8 ай бұрын

That's easily provable using a putting machine that keeps the face square to the target no matter where you hit it on the face. If you come into the ball in a twisting motion you will impart side spin giving the "gear effect". Think of a ping pong or tennis player. If they hit the ball straight through from back to front with a perfectly square strike, the ball will go perfectly straight. Simple physics. F=MA If the player comes in on an arc from inside to out, just like a golfer's swing path, the ball will start outward and spin inward because you are putting sidespin or "English" on that ball. If a tennis player wants to hit the ball very hard but enable it drop into the court, the player will swing from down to up to put "topspin" on the ball. With the ball moving forward but with topspin, the Bernoulli Effect caused by the friction of the air in the moving spinning object (which we all learned in high school physics) will take over and do its magic. What I was always taught is that you have to hit the putt consistently on the center of the face of the putter( or any club for that matter), straight back and straight through to get the ball rolling on the line you determined. The difference between pro's and amateurs is that the pro can more consistently hit the ball with all clubs on the center of the face of the club. On a down hill put, I was taught to purposely hit on the toe of the club but again with the club going straight through(not arcing). A toe hit will obviously not be in the center of mass of the putter so the ball on a down hill putt won't be overhit and overshoot the hole. It wasn't taught to hit it on the toe because of the "gear effect". It was to reduce the putter's moment of inertia from the off center hit to control the putt better. A glancing blow with any club or instrument(tennis racquet, ping pong paddle, etc ) will curve the path of the ball.