Hey everyone, small edit to make! I mistook Marc the Cyborg for the wrong person and have corrected the description to include his channel. Sorry about that!

Doomer: “You guys are talking to me like I’m a fucking moron!” Mauler: “ Well….”

Don't you understand, bad takes are the only thing that brings him happiness in his life

Doomer: "I never pay attention to storys in video games and I always skip over any storytelling when i can. Do you have problem with that?" Fringy: "Well I feel like you aren't giving video game stories a fair chase" Doomer: "I'VE PLAYING GAMES FOR 30 YEARS!!!!! >:C"

"Your takes are so bad YOU could argue against them" is a bar, god damn

Meanwhile in an alternate universe D: "Sorry, I misspoke, I meant to say I don't care about stories in games, not that there are no good ones." M: "I think you're missing out." D: "It's just not my taste." M: "To each their own." *Roll credits.*

"I've been skipping cutscenes for 30 years!" - Gollum Baggins

All he had to say was “I don’t like how modern games force you to watch cutscenes for almost ten minutes at a time.” Literally could’ve avoided all that in a single sentence

This is just such a weird hill to die on. Doomer made a massive sweeping statement and got angry when the crew called him out for it. It would be like if I said "I never gave a shit about any food that wasn't italian", my friends asked if I ever tried sushi and my answer would be "I'VE BEEN EATING FOOD FOR 30 YEARS" and run away crying, never to be heard from again. It's also doubly funny given how much content efap made about games with great stories, like Soma or God of War.

It's really kinda depressing that Doomer burned down so many bridges, ended so many relationships, embarrassed himself in front of so many people and basically deleted himself from the internet... All because he refused to admit that he made a small mistake and said something silly.

“I skip all the cutscenes” and “you act like I don’t interact with game stories” is really the core issue here. Yes you’re exactly correct. Avoiding the story means you avoid the story. It shouldn’t be so hard to understand.

This quite literally a “hurt itself in its out confusion” moment

I'VE BEEN PLAYING VIDEO GAMES FOR 30 YEARS

The funniest thing to me is that the guy who made the "Vaush is unironically evil" video started arguing like Vaush the instant someone pushed back on a take.

Playing video games for 30 years while ignoring stories in them is the only thing that brings joy to Doomers life.

RIP Doomer. I still can’t believe he went on so damn long with his inane take.

"You fucking idiots, I've done nothing wrong!" - Doomer, gone soon to be forgotten.

His hot take is one thing, it’s another that he was so stubborn and unwilling to hear anyone else’s arguments.

Don't forget, he first made a terrible post on r/mauler, doubling down on his trash take and playing the victim, THEN he deleted said post after getting torn a third asshole in the replies. Then, and ONLY then, did he rage quit the internet.

Poor Marc... He was trying to politely engage with Doomer, then he yelled at him...

I mean it’s sort of a shame. He seemed like such a cool dude but he chose to die on such a weird hill, like he says games DON’T have good stories but then he admits they do, then he says that there is no good game stories in recent years but then admits he doesn’t pay attention to the story, then he says he doesn’t like stories in games but then he says he wouldn’t like the stories even if it was given through background and notes he doesn’t want it. What a strange take.

The one time/guest where even Rags is like, “this person is too unhinged even for me to deal with”.

That was the first time I saw MauLer raising his voice like that. Scary

Doomer: "You guys are talking to me like I'm a fucking moron!" Mauler: "Well..." Fucking spit my drink out

I feel bad for Doomer. He got emotional and was too proud to reflect on it. I also feel bad for ER, he got swept in to being the mediator and I don't think he enjoyed it.

Doomer wanted to be different from everyone else so bad that he went too far into the cringe 😢

After his bizarre Arcane take, can’t say this wasn’t inevitable.

I still don't get why, if he doesnt like stories in games, he has been playing story heavy RPG's like Disco Elysium, Cyberpunk 2077, and Fallout New Vegas

The most frustrating part of this is Doomer crying about everyone else turning this into a debate when literally all they're trying to do is get him to admit he's overlooking an entire medium of storytelling based on false assumptions and he himself is getting super defensive and using shitty debate tactics to try and obfuscate the reality of the conversation. I kinda get it from his side, tensions were high, alcohol was involved and he was mostly alone against the panel. However, the fact that he couldn't get past it and kept trying to argue the next day on r/MauLer then deleted everything like a child made me lose all respect for him. Edit: Also great work on the intro/outro Wolf, ya killin it boi.

okay but to play devil’s advocate, i think Doomer might just be uncomfortable with the fact that Silco kisses Jinx in every video game cutscene, which is kind of weird and gross

I love Marc, he held out his hand to help Doomer out of his hole. Doomer then flipped him off and kept digging with his excavator

Taking criticism is part of the package being a personality on the internet. If you cant handle it professionally and move forward, then you dont need to be apart of that space.

This my friends is an example of what not to do when cornered Edit: by ‘cornered’ I meant being the only one in the room to have a different opinion, and stand headlong in denial, despite contradicting evidence. should’ve been more precise with my words.

As bad a take as it was, it's still an acceptable one to have IF he he also said that he gives videogame stories a chance whenever he can. You can't fucking cite your decades of experience of NOT engaging with videogame story telling if you want your opinion of it to be taken seriously. I'm guessing the only reason he liked New Vegas' story was because you have to pay attention to the dialogue to get what you want and figure out where you need to go next. Oh, look, it's possible to discover characters and world building through videogames even as your desire for meaningful gameplay is satiated? I wonder if other videogames are capable of such a fea...ON TO THE NEXT THING! lol

When Mauler said "Dude, DSP's played a lot of video games" I laughed harder than I should have. Doomer is having a DarkSydePhil level take here.

I feel bad for Mark, trying to calm Doomer down and ask reasonable clarifying questions, and between getting cut off by everyone else, Doomer whines and whinges at him.

That "my fucking god" from MauLer was an immediate red flag things were about to go south lol

Man, if he said "I dont play games for the stories, I just don't care, I just want game play" it wouldn't be anything. You do you. But he said that he has never played a game with a good story. Then he hates cut scene's. Then when asked about story via not cut scene, he asked for examples. He then said I don't care. He couldn't just keep it simple and just say, I misspoke, and just say I don't like stories in games, that's not why I play it. Instead he was needlessly combative.

The epitome of “It’s difficult to argue with an intelligent person, but impossible to argue with an idiot”

3:58 When Doomer says later that he never said anything descriptive or prescriptive. This is where he did. "Most games barely have a story." That is descriptive, and I think that was what got stuck in the rest the cast's minds.

“I know what I said” **doesn’t know what he said**

"This isn't a debate!" "YOU CAN'T WIN THIS!" Doomer is an embodiment of the tism.

Doomer skipping cutscenes for 30 years is the only thing that brings him joy in life. The violent movies analogy was pitiful too.

Man I forgot how much Doomer misrepresents other peoples quotes when they call him out on his horrendous takes. Fringy even went back and double checked the boneheaded things he said, and all he could do was spaz out and essentially call MauLer a liar. The man is all class

“I’ve never played a game with a story I gave a shit about. Ever.” “Oh New Vegas had a good story” “I never said anything wrong” ***this mf***

Moriarty leaving because he already knew that Doomer is a lost cause.

Interrupting everyone literally every two seconds with "STOP{STOSOYHGSPOTYPSTOPLSP}"TTS:"OTSO, let me talk" is so fucking infuriating

3:57 “Most games barely have a story!” Knights of the Old Republic 1, 2, and SW:TOR. Homeworld 1, 2, and Deserts of Kharak StarCraft 1 and 2 Mass Effect 1, 2, and 3 Tyranny Baldur’s Gate 1, 2, and 3 God of War: the entire series Galaxy on Fire 2 Every game under the Command & Conquer brand *THE ENTIRE JRPG SUBGENRE*

it will always be funny how doomer coined the term 'cope spyral' only to be a huge victim of it

This reminds me of the great Hiddle Subletees who once said "Fuck dis shitting game, the story was barely worth (loud burb) my time" Before flipping the chess board and passing out drunk.

E;R is always barely alive after an hour of an EFAP - it's fuckin' hilarious listening to him catch up on the conversation in real-time.

“Sometimes letting things go is an act of far greater power than defending or hanging on.” Eckhart Tolle and certainly not Doomer.

“Cutscenes are distasteful… TO ME!” -Doomer

All he had to do was admit that he mispoke, then none of this would've happened.

This is probably the closest simulation to what it would be like if EFAP ever hosted Synthetic Man.

Leaving comments about "the only thing that brings me joy in life" is the only thing that brings me joy in life.

He was really stubborn. Just say you mispoke and move on but nope, he had to die in tha hill even if its the size of an ant hill.

Bioshock had a great story with a 30s cutscene at the beginning, and a 5 minute scene at the very end. HL2 tells story without cutscenes, but it still uses “scenes.”

This was hilarious to watch. Doomer had a bad take and was extremely defensive/agitated for no reason. This is how conversations, even debates happen. If I say "I don't like X" to a group of people. Why should I be surprised if they ask me or challenge me on that take. People seek understanding and we do that through talking. Doomer just kept making it worse and then calling everyone crazy.

This clip is only 32 minutes long? Watching it live felt like 2 hours.

Guys, I'VE PLAYED GAMES FOR 30 YEARS OK. That means something and I'm going to keep repeating it!

It’s hilarious to consider that all of this could have been avoided if Doomer simply said, “Oh, did I say that? My bad. I meant to say that I preferred good gameplay rather than good story.” Which itself, isn’t the greatest take when you could have both, but it’s one that won’t get you roasted into oblivion.

Zelda actually has a rather elaborate story, though it isn't consistent across the entire series The first game had several pages of booklet devoted to the plot (remember when they used to do that?) Ocarina of Time is for many one of the first story centric games they remember

Mauler mentioning DSP is the only thing that gives me happiness in my life

It's worth mentioning that this wasn't Doomer's first weird/bad take. A lot of people pointed out his strange argument with the panel on the 2nd Arcane stream, with him deciding not to come to the next episode, even tho nobody had any beef with him. There's also his really bad video on Dave Chapelle and his multiple strange takes on various streams of the Adam and Sitch show, with many people responding and refuting his arguments, only to him to double down on these takes -most of them-. At this point, a lot of people noticed that Doomer can't really take criticism, or that at leats he struggles with it, which I can understand, he doesn't seem like a stupid or even bad person, he just gets really emotional and stubborn sometimes, but overall he was always a chill dude mos of the time. And then we arrive at this episode, at a point where everybody is drunk and having a laugh and then Doomer decides to say something dumb - which was part of a coherent point, only badly expressed - and when pressed by the rest, specially Fringy and Mauler, he tries to retckon the conversation and change his original statement, only to then double down on it. And remember, everybody was drunk and tired. So yeah, to the people that saying dumb shit like "this was harrasment/bullying", you clearly didn't pay attention. Doomer has no one to blame but himself. Also, what a banger of a thumbnail, Wolf! Edit: spelling error

“I don’t care about stories in games… now give me examples where I would care about the thing I said I wouldn’t. Just so I can say I’d not care about them anyway.”

Doomer: you guys are triggered (A couple seconds ago) Doomer: now I’m triggered

In his battle against breadtubers, he has become the very thing he hates.

man, this one still hurts ngl

Poor E;R, he just wanted to sleep

Rags' quote at 7:42 has always stuck with me because it's so true. Lol

It's such a crazy take, it's like saying "I hate all music, I wish movies had no OST."

Doomer grew up surrounded by video games for 30 years

It seems like doomer felt like he was being attacked and took a defensive stance intead of actually listening. this causes him to warp the viewpoint to fit an unrealistic unfightable state while fully believing that the flaws of his logic do not exist. A interesting look into that type of defense

"I know what I said" Oh my god I forgot all about this moment, I remember witnessing it live, it's like a real life (well, internet-real life) and perfect example of that South Park episode when Cartman gaslights himself into thinking that he wrote Jimmy Valmer's greatest joke of all time ("Do you like fish sticks?"). It's a REAL THING and people do it all the time. It's hilarious in hindsight but really frustrating in the moment. Thank you EFAP Highlights, thumbs up.

Oh boy, here we go again...

Tonald and more recently Cinematic Venom are proof that the Toxic Fandom will forgive anyone. I suspect that somehow Doomer will return.

"I never played a game with a story I gave a shit about" "New Vegas has a pretty good story" "What games have no cutscenes and story?" *Gets a hypothetical and is, like Rags pointed out, not able to engage with it *Gets an actual example *It's getting said an example is not necessary "I don't know what you are talking about, give me an example" *Gets pointed out that he got an example and then deflects *Goes to other games where there is "hardly any story", i.e. there is story but he doesn't want to admit that *Deflects even more and can't just admit that he was wrong No one believes him that he doesn't care about story in games.

Cutscenes are not a genre you deviled egg. Please stop comparing not liking cutscenes to not liking horror movies or action movies. On a more serious note, this is literally what having a bad/incorrect opinion looks like. Saying "I dislike X" is an opinion and cannot be invalidated by appeals to logic. Saying "I dislike X because of Y" is using logic to justify an opinion. The underlying opinion can still be valid, Doomer can say he hates all stories in games, but attempting to justify that opinion with any references opens you up to contradictions. If you say you hate stories in games because you hate cutscenes, examples of games that have stories without cutscenes will undermine your argument. Again, the end conclusion is subjective. You can choose to ignore the logical contradiction in your position and fall back on the original opinion, but in a reasoned discussion where other people are trying to understand your perspective, an inability to appeal to any underlying reason for your beliefs is going to make you look silly. Another example would be saying you hate Zero from Mega Man because their armor is red, and you don't like the color red. If you later say "I love Mario," then you've contradicted the logic of your original statement. That contradiction doesn't mean you suddenly like Zero, but it does mean that the original reason you gave for disliking Zero is no longer sufficient. If you're going to use some logical argument to justify your opinion, then you'd better make sure it's consistent. Perhaps more importantly, making absolutist statements like "I hate stories in games. I've never played a videogame with a story I gave a shit about" is idiotic. First of all, Doomer immediately contradicts that statement with examples of games where he did care about the story. This invalidates the original statement on a logical level. However, realizing this, he quickly moves the goal posts to "I hate stories in games. I've never played a videogame with a story I gave a shit about, except maybe *those."* This argument fails because the existence of one game with a story you like is proof that other games may also have stories you like. If you want to argue that there are not other games out there with stories you may like, you're going to need to provide some rational for why the previous examples are exceptions to your rule. These reasons can then be attacked with logical argumentation. Once again, you can always fall back on the "it's just my opinion" defense, but without any logic to explain your perspective, you're basically just telling people that you like or dislike things for no particular reason. This is not a useful perspective to have in a discussion. Avoid making sweeping generalizations. They take an extraordinary amount of effort to back up with any kind of consistent logic. Finally, there's the meta level, i.e. that this take is just extremely trash. That videogames rely on stories and narratives, both big and small, to get the player to care about the world. That even the simplest games include microscopic elements of what could be generously be called a story to guide the player. Gatekeeping what is and isn't story telling in videogames is like trying to gatekeep what is and isn't art. The entire world is constructed by humans for humans. It's very difficult to distinguish logically between elements of what we might formally call a story, and the little touches, like a trail of blood leading around a corner in a survival horror game, warning the player of potential danger. Both are constructed by the game's creator(s), both are designed to communicate information to the player about the world and their position in it, and neither can be said to be purely gameplay mechanics. I leave the philosophical question of what is and is not a story to people with more free time than me (a small group considering I just wrote a 650+ word KZfaq comment on a clip from a livestream that aired over a year ago.)

"Video games don't have stories. Not with 30 years of playing games could you disprove this. It is folly." -Boromir after playing games for 30 years.

29:00 guy literally brought up new Vegas, a game he played and enjoyed the story of earlier

tl;dr - Doomer: **high-pitched tismic screeching**

I think what happened here is Doomer got caught up on the subjectivity of the broad take, “I don’t like stories in video games,” and thought that meant no criticism could be levied his way because it was a preference. Whereas the rest of the crew we focusing on the reasoning Doomer gave for his preference, that being the cutscenes. To exaggerate this, it’d be like someone saying, “I don’t like New Hope, because it has women in it and I hate women.” One person thinks they’re in the clear because, broadly, the take is subjective, and they’re missing the point of the rest of the crew who are targeting the reasoning, “I don’t like women.”

I've been ragequitting for 30 years, alright? You're the one who's trying to turn this into a debate. I'm not wrong.

So, Doomer was overly broad in what he said, so when he was challenged he became a scrambling online-debatebro. Thats... rather pathetic.

Classic case of taking a strong stance without thinking about it too much, then getting upset because you lacked information and it bit you in the ass… yeowch

I have never been able to sit through this whole argument. It hurts.

The escalating music sold it to me.

It was so strange watching his decline into insanity. But hey, the Internet isn't for everyone.

As a fan of ferrets/weasels, I do hope Doomer has a redemption arc. As I go through a majority of the EFAPs randomly, I seem to keep getting invested in creators that got caught in controversy and whatnot, and never made a return. It saddens me. Also, if Cinematic Venom can have a redemption arc, then there's maybe hope for the Weird Take Weasel. As well, I just feel kind of bad for the guy.

So if anyone is curious about how bad Doomers take is. It's like saying, "There is no animated movie with a good story. I just watch it for how silly the characters act" This implies that animated movies could never have a deep story and are just Scooby Doo levels of character writing. It's a shallow take on how a medium of story telling can only be told in a specific way and no other.

Doomer and Lewis would probably get along really well... As long as Doomer makes sure to finish all the games he plays.

He doomed, he doom, he doomered

On a recent Chudlogic stream Doomer blamed EFAP for ruining his life

Doomer likes movies. Videogame cutscenes are basically movies. Doomer hates cuscenes.

It was really funny seeing him stay on the stream in silence while arguing with the discord chat over his stupid take.

10:26 that's probably the loudest I've ever heard Mauler get

To be fair, I think he’s been on Sitch and Adam’s show a couple times since this. He just stopped making his own content because it turns out after his star video thrashing Vaush that Doomer himself holds some rather bafflingly bad views and gets rather “touchy” when facing pushback.

Man. Reliving the pain. I think this might be the worst take I've actually heard. It's not even the insane take, it's the constant doubling down and gaslighting. "I've played video games for 30 years. I've never played a game with a good story." "Okay, there were one or two but that's it!" "I don't know what enviromental storytelling is." "I don't care about your example." "You're all lying. I never said that. I never asked that." "You didn't name any games that I've played that have good stories." "I've played a lot of video games with stories and I know they aren't good, so now I just skip all of the cutscenes." "None of you are even trying to understand me." "I wasn't wrong about Arcane and everything I've said in the last 24 hours is 100% uncontroversial." EDITED for clarity. I was too charitable. "I won't start liking game stories/cutscenes even if I started watching them. I just want to hit things. This was what I said from the start." "I already know I don't like video game stories. I don't need to play your examples. I already know I'll hate them." "I need to work. I don't have time for games." "You're saying I haven't played enough video games yet?" (30 YEARS!) "I didn't misspeak. I meant everything I said literally." "This is not a debate." "I told you from the start that you should brainstorm video games until you come up with one I've played that has a good story." "Is there any chance you'll admit you're wrong if I go back and take notes?" "I know what I said." "If I say 'I hate cutscenes - I can't think of a single game where I cared about the story' I don't mean that literally."

Redemption Arcs are probably most EFAP fans' favorite thing about EFAP... As much as I dislike various people to some extent who interact with EFAP, it's *always* a shame when they go the polar opposite direction from a "Redemption Arc." No matter my disagreements, I'd *always* rather have an *ally* than an "enemy."