softroadingthewest thanks Donald 🙏! You may have noticed more B-roll than usual in this video. That’s because I’ve learned from you and Edward! So thanks for that! I really loved this trip, maybe in part to not being the guy that got stuck 🤣. The challenge to get Channing unstuck was met with open arms. It was such a great exercise in putting my recovery preparations to use. We’re all better from this experience. It wasn’t my first time helping with a recovery, but it seems every time, I get better and better at it.

That's how it felt while driving, suspenseful! Especially going downhill!

Vitale Wilkins thank you 🙏. This trip turned out to be a good day putting a lot of theory and past experience into practice. Thanks for stopping by to leave this comment.

Danny Rocksteady thanks 🙏! We still need to collaborate And show the world what America’s #1 selling crossover can do offroad!

JonDZ Adventuring definitely! Let’s plan on doing something soon-we have a variety of terrain and climate available to us right now!

William Nelson at 3:05 I talk about the difference between 1.) dedicated winter tires, 2.) winter rated all terrain tires and 3.) a regular all terrain tire. I believe the main difference is the rubber compounds that are used. I used to drive a 2008 FJ with BFG all terrains (non winter rated) and it was scary as hell driving that thing in the snow. Just like in the illustration a winter rated all terrain tire is a MASSIVE improvement in snow traction. Hands down, a winter rated all terrain tire is the best for snow, but in places like Southern California they aren’t practical. Also, keep in mind this is an unmaintained off-road trail. Both our vehicles have lift kits installed and taller tires. the reason the crosstrek initially got stuck was because he became high centered. He also should have put on his snow chains ⛓

William Nelson by the way. What year Pilot do you have?

For those of us who don't live in snowy areas and might only drive in snow a few times a year - and who are running all-terrain tires anyway - it makes little sense to invest in a whole additional set of tires, which we may not even know we needed to have on the car until too late. Winter rated AT can in fact do just fine, as long as it's in actual snow and not ice. My KO2s pack snow quite well and are very grippy and sure-footed in the snow...all the more reason for me to not to sink money and storage space into an additional set of wheels and tires. Where they fail however is on hard-packed icy surfaces like Jon and Channing hit in this video. I'm sure a dedicated winter tire would provide superior results in those conditions. I would think any vehicle, regardless of tire, would risk getting hung up as the Crosstrek did if high centered on that much snow, especially if it's that wet sticky snow that likes to pack up rather than loose dry powder that you can just plow right through.

softroadingthewest I think a snow rated all terrain is great for all around driving. Applying a set of snow chains should surpass the capabilities of a dedicated winter tire.

William Nelson Traditional snow tires (Blizzaks, Micheline X-Ice, etc) are the best for on-road winter driving. If you are going off-road, however, they don't always do as well as an A/T winter-rated tire. When you get into deep snow, especially if the snow is sitting on rocks, mud, etc., winter-rated A/Ts are the way to go. Hands down. And if you encounter packed snow or ice, you just throw chains on them. Winter driving is difficult because, well, nothing does well. It is extremely unpredictable. But if you are staying on-road, "commuter" style snow tires are indeed best, you are correct. Off-road, they don'tt hold up, though. For some background, I like to go off-roading as a minor hobby, but I also spend quite a bit of time driving in rough conditions for my work. I work in residential construction, and while that doesn't sound like rough driving, consider this: We build luxury homes in Northern Michigan. Most of these homes are in the middle of nowhere. Very frequently down long two-tracks, as a lot of our clients want to "get away."(Which I can totally dig 😄). Obviously, a driveway isn't put in until the end. So now imagine a two-track that has had lumber trucks and cranes driving up and down it for several months. You get ruts over a foot deep. Usually filled with mud, because, well, it's Michigan. Now throw snow into the mix. And hills. It's a damn mess heh. And no, not every job is like that. But a lot of them are. The majority, for sure. You cannot get to the site without 4-wheel-drive. And we have had a couple jobs in just the last year where even that wasn't enough for some people. So I do have a fair bit of experience with this. It is more or less a way of life for me. TL;DR Winter tires are great. A/T winter tires are also great, but they are more specialized and probably aren't as useful for the general public. If you don't know when they should be used, then you probably don't need them, if that makes sense.

Krzysztof Sobkowiak thank you 🙏

The Doodle Riley thanks 🙏. Have fun on your adventures.

@solar fry thanks for the info! That's a good idea! I actually have some rope I carry in my cargo compartments at all times.

Thanks @umbra says! It was a fun time out there.

ColoradoDashCam whew! 5 tugs! That sounds like an ordeal. You’re pilot isn’t the lightest vehicle 🤣. I’ve seen all sorts of vehicles stuck in the snow. It seems to all come down to if the vehicle is high centered or not. Even a lifted Jeep Rubicon on 37’s is getting stuck when high centered in the snow. Actually, I have a video about that. 3 Subaru's play in Heavy Snow, Hot Springs, Jeep Rescue kzfaq.info/get/bejne/j9Bif91myra0iIk.html

Josh Wolff thanks 🙏

Thanks @John Cook! I own the Honda Passport (black vehicle) and it has a traditional traction control system + power based torque vectoring in the rear, it's a full time AWD system. The Subaru Crosstrek (blue vehicle) has a mechanical full time AWD system (the rear diff is coupled) but the general consensus is that because it has a CVT, the traction control system cuts power to protect the transmission.

OMGodfrey thanks 🙏

Richard Fuller thanks!

Jesus That sounds like a scary situation and I’m glad you’re okay. I’m sure you’ll never forget, and you’ll be prepared next tome.

Soul Surfer I have thrown away the tow hook strap 😇, a lot of people were concerned about me using it.

digi63 thanks for watching! That’s a really good question, one I asked myself after this trip. What went wrong? What could we have done better? We both had snow chains, but we simply forgot to use them. Time and time again, I find that if I don’t stop to think, I’ll just keep going with the solution I “think” is working.

Thanks Tyler 🙏 ! The blue crosstrek has Falken Wildpeak AT3’s. He got stuck because he became high centered. One thing I didn’t talk about, and I wish I did, was that there were all sorts of capable rigs out there. We were the only two unibody framed crossover/SUV’s out there. On our way down we came across atleast 20 dedicated off-roaders. I saw atleast (3) built 80 series land cruisers with 40 inch tires, jeeps, 4runners. The only people we didn’t see come back down the mountain was the group of trucks that rolled up behind us. They were taking this trail up to their cabin in Big Bear and I really hoped they made it. If those trucks cleared the path for us to where the crosstrek wouldn’t get high centered, then there would be a good chance to get past. That Dodge Ram has really y’all tires, they were atleast 37 inch. But his front crossmember was hanging way down where it would have acted as a snow plow. A stock 4 runner has 9.5 inches of minimum ground clearance but 18 inches of max clearance. A stock Honda Passport has 8.1” of min clearance and 12” of max clearance and a stock crosstrek has 8.7” of min clearance and 10” of max clearance. That 18 inches of max clearance would mean that your 4 runner would get further than our vehicles. Even further than my 2 inch lifted Passport with 2 inch taller tires. I’ve only improved my max ground clearance to 15 inches. The problem with the Subaru’s is they need a subframe drop in the rear, so even after being lifted their max ground clearance doesn’t improve as much. (The older Subaru’s get full benefit from a lift).

Tyler basically, whatever my Honda Passport can do offroad, your 4runner will do better. So my channel will be a good easy trail guide for you 😃

I'm not sure where I would mount the winch, but it's definitely on the list of upgrades. There's a guy with a FWD honda fit that was able to get up a pretty rough road (the rewards mine) by using a winch. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fq2llLV2sZbIlKc.html

Videos I’ve never considered one before, but while I was in the middle of working that recovery.... I really wished I had one! It’s on the list now for sure!!! Also, one thing I forgot to mention in this video is that I wish I would have put on my tire chains to have more traction while I performed the tow recovery.

@@JonDZ_Adventuring Yup, tire chains are great in snow. I carry a set as well. Maybe you'll get another opportunity in snow to use them in the future, and can post a video showing that. Maybe even a "with" and "without" sort of thing. :-)

Videos that’s a good idea 💡! Yeah, I really would do that! Thanks for the suggestion!

Lion Runner oh, please be careful! I’ll travel solo in the snow, but only on maintained highways that are constantly plowed.

I’m really bad in planning trips 🤦🏻‍♂️ If we wake up early on the weekend we quickly grab some food to go and a quick glance at Gaia maps and off we go. Most snow trails are the same ones we have experienced in summer. So at least have some idea. But again it’s a risk that will definitely try to reduce.

L. Danielle Ayers I’m thinking about getting another pair so I have chains for each tire. Otherwise it’s safest to put them on the rear tires. They were so much cost effective with my smaller tires on the Subaru at around $50. But they’re $109 for my 265/65R18’s 😭.

Ronald Marsh you’re a good person for helping people out and you bring up a really good point! I bought these cold weather pants from an Instagram ad. They were $62 but they aren’t exactly waterproof like they were advertised as. However, they worked great at keeping me warm here (they’re fleece lined).

bruceyyyyy I always love your comments, even though you hate me 🤣. So, that’s another thing I forgot to bring up. I have a snatch strap, but I was so terrified of using it! I feared Channing would slide down the hill if we unleashed too much kinetic energy.

@@JonDZ_Adventuring Ohhh that makes sense. The timing on that truck crew showing up was just about perfectly wrong.

bruceyyyyy yeah. Channing made the right call. Good for him for doing that. We were the only ones out there until they showed up. Glad we had the opportunity to exercise our recovery skills, and I’m thankful they all pitched in to help us.

@@JonDZ_Adventuring Also wait, did the XV have a winch? I thought I saw it in some shots.

bruceyyyyy I thought the same thing when I first saw it, but it’s actually a toll road transponder.

Ian Abbott Subaru’s have a full time AWD system. The rear wheels are mechanically coupled. I think my best way to explain what’s happening is the wheels have to get permission from the CVT before getting power. An older Subaru wouldn’t have issue.

Chris M they are made by Husky and I bought them from Home Depot for $4 each 😃.

JonDZ Adventuring any model # or size?

Chris M I’m not sure about the model number, but they’re about 12-3/4” by 7”

Del1000r good question! There a loop on the front driver side, but it’s not very heavy duty. I have a 2 inch hitch receiver in the rear that that’s heavy duty, but only because I installed one. Other than that, I’d probably have to use one of the lower control arms.

JonDZ Adventuring I hate that. All new vehicles seem to forget a sturdy recovery point. Just like most unibodies have a horrible jacklift point. Those two things should be sorted by now. Lol.

Jon, this you tube channel has a lot of good recoveries with no winches involved Matt's Off Road Recovery kzfaq.info/love/wdVOry0oNF9WIe_3uCfz9Q

JOHN-OKC I love watching Matt’s offroad recovery! One thing I learned about his channel is that he has a tow point on the center of his Cherokee. Unfortunately, my Honda’s front recovery point is located by my front driver side tire, so it’s a bit offset. I also notice that Matt spreads out the load and hooks up to both sides of the vehicle he is recovering. As far as the kinetic rope. I had one, but I felt it was too risky. I did not have experience using it, AND, I’ve seen enough kinetic rope mishaps on KZfaq to know too much kinetic energy being released can have my buddy sliding off the edge. I wanted a more controlled pull. I think the main problem here is that the Subaru had too much snow and ice caught up under, so it really struggled with maneuvering out of there.

@@JonDZ_Adventuring It couldn't stay in the tracks it kept sliding right, the whole time i was thing "if he only had a winch and pulley, there were trees uphill he could pull him back to the center." The crosstrek driver was actually steering himself towards the right, you can see it in your video, i think he was wiggling the wheel and lost track of where center was kzfaq.info/get/bejne/i8mCfaZ51ci6lWg.html.

@@JonDZ_Adventuring With the kinetic rope you can start as gentle as you want and build up speed and distance as needed, you don't go 100% on your first try.

JOHN-OKC a winch is definitely on my upgrade list, but first I want to get the 77 lb full size spare tire off my roof (it sits in the cargo carrier). I plan on getting a rear hitch tire carrier. I’ve also been working on switching out my 2 inch lift with a 3.5 inch. After that, I’ll look into a winch, then sliders.

Are dedicated winter tires better than chains?

@@Ktheodoss yes, in my opinion.

@@Ktheodoss chains give you more traction but they’re so inconvenient that if you have an AWD/4WD with snow tires your life will be much easier.

Kevin Moore not many good ones to be honest. The front recovery point is this loop on the driver side of the front crossmember. Behind the front bumper. The rear doesn’t have any dedicated recovery points, but you can strap to the rear cross member. If you install a hitch receiver, it comes with recovery points.

Armando V that’s a really good question! The answer is yes. With the 2016+ pilot 2017+ Ridgeline and 2019+ passport, you can air down and disable traction control with no problem. I’ve aired down to 12 PSI once, and there was no issue. It’s crazy you can’t do this on the older Honda’s.

Ok, thanks! Yeah I have an 06 Ridgeline. Can’t do it.

Yevgen Vasyliv I never use snow mode. It just starts the transmission in 2nd gear and dulls throttle inputs. I find mud and sand mode better for driving in snow. For ice, I’ll drive in normal mode, Sport mode and take manual control of shifts so I could utilize engine braking for going down hill and around corners.

Burns canyon road (2N02) Here are the coordinates: 34.203454, -116.577390 The trail leads up to Big Bear Lake, CA Here's a video of this trail when it's not snowy: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/q9Jxgbebp77PfY0.html

His is burns canyon road 3N02. It’s located between Joshua Tree and Big Bear

@@JonDZ_Adventuring So, I'm wildly wrong! Your videos are awesome. Have you guys been on Saline Valley Road? I'm not doing that one, till I get all terrains.

Also he should be spinning his wheels already when you snatch him. Yeah its going to make a slightly larger hole but once yank him it should pull him towards the top of the hole and his spinning wheels will pull him over the time and also make less of a steep hole as he wears it down as it goes. So if you have to yank a second time it should be easier for him to get out.

Thanks for the comment. Many people have commented about the metal hook. I threw it away shortly after.

Christopher Sanchez definitely young at heart!

Two reasons. 1.) can’t sleep in the Ridgeline, I need the SUV form factor. 2.) the 2017-2019 Ridgelines only have the Honda 6 speed which only has a 14:1 crawl ratio. For 2020, the Ridgeline gets the ZF9 speed, which will increase its capability.

@@JonDZ_Adventuring I was looking at getting an 18 Ridgeline with a four wheel camper but since watching your videos I think I might spring for a 20 Ridgeline. What size tires are you running? You say 32s but are they true 32s? I'll probably run a 265/70 17. Not to big but big enough to help.

Richard Destefano so, there are a few 17 inch wheels out there that may clear the brake calipers, but the safe bet is to go with an 18 inch wheel. The tires I run are 265/65R18. They’re 31.6” but since they’re all-terrains, they have 0.4” of tread height. I was able to mount them by trimming my wheel well. you won’t be able to fit anything larger than a 31 inch tire without rubbing. Even 265/60R18 will rub slightly (those are 30.5” + 0.4” tread). There’s a 3.5 inch lift kit available. This should allow you to fit taller tires. I’m thinking of upgrading to this lift kit, which should allow me to run 265/70R18 (32.6” + 0.4 tread).

@@JonDZ_Adventuring Please explain about the 'crawl ratio'. (I have a '19 touring pilot with 265/60r18 & falken wildpeak at3w. Also got it to camp in, there's just enough more space in the Pilot than PP.)

As far as drivetrain, it’s all the same. As far as the suspension, the Ridgeline has slightly beefier shocks and springs (I had them implanted into my Passport). The Passport and Ridgeline both have tougher trailing arms, the Pilot (Atleast older ones) does not. It’s essentially all the same though, and it wouldn’t be very hard to swap in parts.

Kathy Smith it was fun, and my friend and I knew very well someone could get stuck. It was a good learning experience in utilizing our preparations and executing a recovery. It went well, could have been better. There’s plenty of people that inadvertently put themselves in danger driving to the ski resort. With all the vehicles that drive around, it’s in my opinion, more dangerous. The same holiday weekend, a friend of mine was part of an accident were a car slid into the oncoming lane and had a head on collision and flipped over. This was driving up highway 38 to the Big Bear ski resorts. I hope everyone stays safe 😇

Yep, but people that want you to spend money on winter tires will tell you that A/T’s are garbage and will pay tire rack to make a KZfaq video about it 🤣

@@JonDZ_Adventuring I know right😂 I do appreciate your videos, thanks you!

👊

Sorry to say but you should have brought a JEEP !

Kathy Smith living in a bubble isn’t for everyone, but yeah, you’re kinda right! If you’re not prepared for this kind of environment, it’s best to stay home. Also, many people think that their Ford Raptor can drive over anything, but that’s far from the truth. These tips in the video apply to all vehicles. Be prepared, stay home, or risk death 💀

We're guys. We like doing such things.