I'm just here for the wow cursor pointing at items

All friendships go out of the window when Corrupted Ashbringer is on the line.

**gnome voice** "Mind if i roll need ??"

Mak'gora System is Best System. Whoever wants one particular loot, strip down to your undies, pound your chest, and punch each other until only one remains. He gets the loot.

“Oh yeah thats a hunter weapon”

"I remeber loot from 15 years ago but I can't remember what I had for breakfast yesterday." True shit

The "getting" loot part is so true, This happened in Wotlk, every guy that got shadowmourne quit a few weeks after getting it

the way you speak during your videos, makes me feel like i'm laying my head on your lap and you're stroking my hair, telling me a story

" THATS 50 DKP MINUS"

Loot in classic WOW: 98% of it goes to Hunters, but they can't equip maces. So that means Sulfuras goes to Druids first.

Madseason, it’s honestly amazing how every bit of background footage is perfectly correlated with what you’re talking about. You have an art of putting these together!

I got into Classic a month ago and I have really been enjoying your videos. You help remind me of things I forgot through the years, and I even pick up a few new tricks too which is fun for such an old game. Keep it up Madseason

The guild I am a part of does a combination of Free for All rolling and with a few caveats. First, you get two "premium" items and one "premium" weapon. Once you have your items, you are locked out of rolling until everyone in your role (tank, caster, healer, etc) has their items. Tier stuff is distributed based on rolls, but also trying to get people to meaningful bonuses. So if a t2 priest item drops, they favor people who already have two t2 items since the three set bonus on priest is a massive upgrade. So far it has worked out, but I think it's party because everyone does seem to more or less want everyone to be at their best.

Look I'm just saying that the eye of sulfuras can be made into a good hammer and I think my hunter should get it.

Love the use of the Goldeneye music in this video, really set the tone for how people go nuts over loot in this game. As always, another great video

Im so happy on how your channel has grown. keep it up i love your streams and videos.

I like the simple rolling. I've seen loot pass me by, mage blades, and other, then I eventuality won my mage blade and it was such a memorable experience. I won't forget it, it was so exciting waiting for that super epic piece to drop and hoping you can win that roll. All my gear, but TOEP, all other pieces came from pug's, and it was really fun and exciting winning loot this way. Loot doesn't make me agree, it makes me super happy. You have to have the right attitude.

11:19 Diggin the Chrono trigger music!

Guardia Forest music at the end made me smile, one of my favorite pieces of music

"Hunter weapon" The worst phrase ever.

You know what really grinds my gears? Doing the same instance over and over again, just hoping for a specific item to drop, and then boom! That sucker drops on the first run with your alt who has no need for it...

I was in a guild with a loot council and admittedly I was probably very lucky. From vanilla to lich king we very very very rarely had people disagree with the choices. Like you said, it kept people engaged and in the guild longer. Every raid, for the most part, everyone got something they could use.

Love your content! It's literally freaky all the comparisons you make like i'm like was this guy in my vanilla guild? Cause you describe everything perfectly.

That was wonderful, Mad. Thankyou.

11:40 Chrono Trigger forest music. Love it.

What loot? People are getting loot in classic?

My first progression EQ guild had loot council. It, honestly, was incredibly fair. The GL and his wife ran the guild but they always passed loot to who needed the biggest upgrades. We ended up being top 3 on our server for Velious, Luclin and Planes of Power. It was great

Definitely love the Alundra music lol. You’re the man MadSeason. Keep living my wow addiction through you. - Wetsdabed

I got screwed by EPGP and Loot Council so many times back in the day, so I don't really miss the old loot system.

Yo that Goldeneye 007 music in the background took me back

Insta like the moment I heard the background music! Ahhh good ol' memories!

Really dig the old school video game music in the background 🤙

Loot council is ok and fair most of the time, until a big ticket item drops. You know pretty fast where you stand there then^^

Couple of additional points I think you could have put in; With any point system that rewards activity outside of raid, what can start as a good intention to reward activity can turn into a "daily quest" type grind, either through donations or having to run dungeons. Plus dungeon running can just become a "daily" within a clique that actually only benefits a small group and not the wider Guild. Loot council can suffer some drama just from RNG. If you raid for 12 weeks and only get one TOEP drop, you're going to have some mad casters even if the "right" person wins it. Even if it isn't personal it can definitely feel it. Great video though, loot drama remains the hardest content in Classic WoW

The endings on your videos are so cool

GREAT VID as always!

"Loot makes people angry." .... "I'm on a loot council." Ah! So this is a therapy video. Good to see MadSeason taking care of their mental health.

I very much appreciated the GoldenEye64 soundtrack making an appearance.

Nice Chrono Trigger music! Enjoyed the vid, cheers.

Haha, was that some Goldeneye N64 Music in the background? AS always madseason, great video!

MadSeasonShow never had the makings of a Varsity athlete.

What you do, is say oh let’s say netherwind robes drop off nef ok? So the guild master looter goes and does a raid warning saying oh netherwind robes dropped mages roll. Everyone gets a chance to get everything. The thing is that the only people that get into that BWL are the active people that are really nice and stuff. It’s an amazing system and I love it, there is also a wishlist system for MC because at this point most people want 1 or so things, so they immediately get it if it is wishlisted and they roll on it if there is more than 1 person who wishlisted it. It’s very nice because our guild is just a group of casual really nice people. The people that aren’t nice, and are hardcore hate our raids and that’s good because we don’t want people to get pissed over not getting something.

Madseas: Cue the Wiz 11:40 epic mic drop my friend, as always. :)

Damn mad season just explained my loot council guild perfectly

*Polish my Thunderfury* Proceeds to polish with censorship 😭

The hardest part about being on a Loot Council in classic is figuring out whos in it for the long haul. If a good weapon goes to a weaker player, you can shrug it off because it's still an upgrade. But when it goes to someone that quits a week later, or gets poached by another guild, that's bad feels all around. I've never actually seen anyone leave because they ran out of loot to win, they just start chasing parses at that point.

Wow the music from Saturday Night Slam Masters. Cant believe i instantly recognised it after all these years

a new mad season vid = my one rare source for smiles these days

druid here in a loot council guild, its been feeling like hell lately I get the impression im literally last in priority for everything despite making good numbers in more fights with what I have. the last druid (and officers) got 3 pieces of Stormrage in 1 night including chest and gloves, I got none, he ended up maining a warlock next raid and those pieces have not dropped since. Im not mad but im feeeling increasingly crushed the more time goes on... I dont feel like I have any control over getting anything ever

Loot council has caused the most drama with me, I prefer rolling. Personal loot was nice change. In pugs of modern wow I get nervous when it's not personal loot.

Perfect video, you should make it a series

Watching these videos makes me wish I played this game when it first launched and over the years

Inb4 the bald one reacts.

I can honestly say I've never had that issue with loot council guilds.

This channel is amazing U have my sub mate

Loot Council is about the classes (for me, I was playing a Rogue) So we had a thing called WISHLIST for each class, I swear to god this was so good. You made a spreadsheet and the person next on that item that dropped, gets the loot. OMG its so fucking simple and I loved it. Now in a guild with /roll and EPGP, don't ask its confusing...

"For some reason we never had fury warriors in our raids" - lol gee, i wonder why lol.

What about Suicide Kings? My classic guild is the first guild ive been in that used it, but its the best loot system I've been a part of. Everyone goes on Wep / Shared /Tier lists. When an item drops, the top person on the list can take the item, then get moved to the bottom of the list. Each list is populated by each person rolling. Your roll with dictate your original spot on the loot list. And of course, each item is given a prio. Corehound Tooth prio goes Rogue then Warr/Hunter. The only drama that has really come from this is some raiders thinking themselves better than the rest and getting butthurt when a Drakefang Talisman goes to the 3rd best warr instead of the best warr (in terms of parses).

Great moment tonight. I invited a resto Druid to guild yesterday. He worked hard all day to get ready for mc tonight. Then he cleaned house with his cenarion gear. (All the others already had. ) it was good to give a guy 6 pieces of loot that would otherwise get de. A new hunter also got the leaf and the sinew tonight! Great stuff.

I am a game developer and I learn a lot from your keen insight with wow.

i remember my cata days that when i was over geared for the raid, i just helped other ppl just for fun. and past time i was punishing fresh dings in pvp xD and when it come to loot. if there is some one that is rolling on the same item and its bigger upgrade to them ill pass it for them

I never played vanilla before classic, however when we started out i ended up joining a guild that seemed pretty cool, they talked about how they wanted "casual raiding" which sounded neat in my ears, however when we finally started hitting 60 they all of a sudden decided to go loot council, put 1 guy who only played for raids and gave himself all the gear "because im the main tank", and another guy who would threaten to kick you out of the guild everytime you said something he didnt like (while he would always be talking about how much of a b*tch his wife was in guild chat), and when i asked why tank were first to get head of onyxia (didnt now, never played vanilla) i was told to "STFU and accept our loot decisions", after which i questioned it i was kicked from the guild. people get weird over ingame bling man.

Hi MadSeason. I like your videos. They're relaxing.

I had the extreme fortune of joining a Classic WoW guild with plenty of RL friends in it, and many of them were Officers/Loot Council in our guild. You'd think this would be ripe for abuse, but it was actually the most fair loot council I've ever seen. There were barely any issues and we had one of the most tight-knit groups of 40 people on the server. It created a great raiding atmosphere where a lot of times people would pass on items they won because they thought it'd be better for someone else, and everyone was cool with it. Unfortunately a lot of them burnt out, but we had an amicable guild dissolution. It was a great 6 months.

Why didn’t you mention Suicide Kings? Even has an addon to keep it clear to the raid like dkp

My guild lootcouncils, and it's a guild that has been around for years before I joined it in Classic. They seem to heavily favor loot to their old members, two of their old guildies came along months after we started raiding, rolled locks and they started to get pretty much all loot, and have passed me gearwise now. They both got Neltharion's Tear first as well.

12:51 is the funniest thing ever. CRUSHED

This must be the very first video I ever looked from you directly without having Azmongold looking it on my behalf and me looking his comment on it. I actually genuinely love both your content and your voice. I didn't decide yet which I prefer though, hard to tell. I just subbed, simply subbed. You rock buddy, keep on going.

hope you're enjoying the FF7R madseason!

DKP also has to be implemented in such a way, that it gives good points for attending progression raids, and learning new bosses. If not, you'll suddenly find that a lot of members are "busy" on those raid nights. Then once you are close to beating the boss, everyone wants in again. And those who were there, for all those nights of wiping, might just find themselves get shifted out for people who just happened to be "busy" in recent weeks, with the excuse "Could you sit out tonight please, so Sunderpants can play, he haven't had time to raid in weeks".

I liked Loot Council back in my vanilla days... My guild had a system of seniority where the most prolific members would generally get new tier loot first, but after they got something they'd immediately be put on the back burner and someone else in that class would get the next item if they wanted it. Everyone essentially had a list of items they specifically wanted and anyone with the item on their list had immediate priority over those who didn't, unless the upgrade was significant enough for everyone to feel it was for the greater good to go elsewhere. We actually didn't have too much drama over it, so we might have gotten lucky.

Hey MadSeason, Big fan of your videos man.. I have a request I think a lot of the community will back me on. Prior to classic releasing you made a class guide.. Could you please make an updated video for the classes for TBC? Changes, new spells, main specs, what to expect kind of thing? Thank you brother! 😀

So i am playing on a german server and i think we have one of the best loot systems and people should do it that way too. Each class has an own teamspeak channel and before the raid everyone discusses who should get it next. So many people are just pissed because they are not cummunicating. Also we got an item list for each class and for items which can be useful for more classes. Everyone has the mentality that when something is a bigger upgrade for someone he should get it. We are 120 members and i think in the last 2 months 2 people left the guild who where actively raiding. Also we got a forum where everyone gives in their item wish and priolist. People are forgetting what it means to b in a guild and care for it. They were helping me to farm brd drops hand of justice and the chest for 2 weeks straight everyday and they were just happy for me i got it. In return i help them out if i am not pvping. ❤️

There is another system, the 'soft reserve' system. Before a raid, when you sign up, each raider can 'soft reserve' one item from that raid. If that item drops, only people who reserved it can roll on it. Highest roll wins. If you are the only one that reserves an item and it drops, its yours. If an item drops that has not been reserved, then it's a MS>OS free roll.

Man I love those videos - watching people getting so emotional over some pixels :)

Never change the intro its the best

My first dkp guild i joined years ago.. I raided a new raid since my old guild fell. There was no upgrades or then i lost because i had no points. But i watched how the system worked. Then there was gloves that dropped and nobody else needed.. GM told me to bid max. I asked why. He told me to just do it... I did watch and learn how the system worked and bid 1. I got the gloves but was kicked recently after that. Left bad taste for dkp :/

Best method is for the master looter to hold each item. Everyone exit instance and duuuuueeeellll over items.

We use a loot council/roll and I have no bad experience with it yet. I am really blessed with an awesome guild.

Love the soundtrack to this video: Battle toads and Double dragon Wooo! haha

Or you could use my patented method of not lvling to max and never even entering raids in the first place.

The timing of this video couldn't have been more perfect. I just quit yesterday due to Lootcouncil and Loot (T2 Hunter Helm). Last night I lost the Cross-bow from BWL because my roll didn't show up and only two hunters were allowed to roll. I said since day 1 I will pass all loot to Hunters for the Cross-bow. I wanted it for PvP since that's what I do. I raid to help the guild but that didn't matter. I've been farming the T2 Helm for 7 damn months. 15 Raids I was the only Hunter and it didn't drop. 5 Months ago I lost it again to Lootcouncil Need(PvE) vs Need (PvP). The Cross-bow was the last nail in the coffin. Truth is I won't waste another 7 months to farm a fucking T2 helm and a Cross-bow in a game. I will wait for TBC where I can get my gear from Arenas and not let others decide for me. See you in TBC Boys :)

One reason the guild I was in lasted for 9 years was the fairness of its loot system. We used a modified zero-sum DKP system (your DKP is added to the roll, if you win, it resets to zero) and in all those years we had precisely one issue of loot drama, involving a hunter, of course. Legendaries, however, were handled by a Loot Council, which I sat on as executive officer, but when it came time to award the guild's 1st (and server 4th) Shadowmourne, I recused myself from the Loot Council as I was in contention for the weapon. I won, and rather than keep the bonus Shadowmourne goodies for myself, I gave them all away as rewards in a WoW trivia contest for the guild.

This whole discussion of loot's value just reminded me of that scene from Isle of Dogs. Dog 1: 'Is it worth it?' (Pulls back cloth, revealing Corrupted Ashbringer) Dog 2: 'Yup. It's worth it.' (An entire pack of dogs begins tearing each other apart)

I don't think I'd ever join a raiding guild where a rogue is raid lead or guild master tbh, unless I already knew them really well. Hard pass based on the typical personalities of rogue players

Your first point about "who is more active" doesn't really makes sense to me personally. Honestly, if a player who never spoke a word or who doesn't play 10 hours a day makes sure that he/she comes every raid night and performs just as good as (maybe even better than) the main tank and gets the roll, you can bet your sweet ass im giving him/her the loot.

My semi-casual progression guild is loot council on set pcs. and dkp on everything else. So far it's worked out great! However we seem to be lucky being a daytime raiding guild and having older members. All of our classes seem to work closely on the needs to each and try to obtain what they want. Even the rogues and warriors work together on specific pcs. Nice world compared to when I originally played.

Konfer Suicide Kings is a pretty satisfying system. Round robin to eligible/prioritized roles. Highest bidder? Bottom of list. Get loot. Miss three weeks of raid? Bottom of list. Every item that is won cycles the KSK list. You can get an item last week and be 20/44 by the next week. Highest spot? You win the next high prio item. Mix this system with a few key items being LC via a defined loot table, and you have a reasonable system.

4 views crew where u at

Absolutely detest this aspect of WoW from both guild member and leadership ends. Personal loot by far the best, eliminates many problems and drama.

KSK combined with longest BiS length council has done wonders in our guild as well for our dps as a raid I.e. Hunter T2 8 set bonus.

didnt have this issue in vanilla and didnt raid much beyond the starter raids in BC but I remember loot drama in Wrath. Our guild leader was the guy who thought he was a hardcore progression raider but our team was fairly casual in the beginning and a 10 man team. So he would try to get into 25 man raids by networking with other guilds. Of course this culminated in a 25 man ony fight at one point. The other guild was more or less the "host" of the fight since they had the majority of players present. They had a weird number system where they would deduct points based on performance, but the percentage was based solely on everyone magically performed equally. If you looked at it from a certain standpoint, it was designed to make the rich richer and the poor poorer, since the better gear you had odds were you would perform better thus anyone rolling against you would automatically start at a disadvantage when rolling. which in the end, the people with the better gear would get upgrades, widening the gap more each run. Which was fine, it was their run, their guild, their rules. The drama started when the 2H sword drops, and its between me and two warriors. Needless to say I was "under-performing" compared to them since we didnt do much raiding in the higher group numbers so their gear was definitely better than mine. Of course the drama started when, regardless of all the handicaps they placed on the loot rolls, lady luck shined on me that day and I rolled one of a handful of exceedingly high rolls which was 90+. The other two had pitiful rolls which left me the clear winner in the end. Shit straight up hit the fan and emotions ran high, with them claiming I didnt deserve the sword because I didnt meet their lofty standards, and like "they are a pug" so it should go to a "guildie". This went one for like half an hour. By their own rules, I won the sword fair and square, so it would be shitty of them to rob me of acquiring it, and my guildmates backed me the entire way. Eventually the raid leader just dropped the sword in my bags. Probably to avoid the possibility of them getting a reputation of going against their own stated loot rules. In the end, I had the 2H sword and my guild paid for all the upgrades which I do believe it had gem slots along with the berserking enchant. I still have that sword sitting in my bank on Antonidas to this day on my draenei paladin.

Loot drama is just all part of the experience. I love it.

Tokyo - Saturday Night Slam Masters SNES Version. First second already AWESOME :D

I played a Rogue in Vanilla when it first launched. I played him all the way through till BC came out. I was active on all raids and did anything possible. We used a DKP system and just due to the nature of Rogues being plentiful and the 2 Set pieces per week. I ended up having a Blue Eye Patch helm for the entire duration of BC. I didnt see the T1 or 2 set helm in my possession until the Re-release of the Onyxia raid some years later. Edit- I forgot to mention that for some reason Rogue gear NEVER seemed to drop for our guild. I believe we had Warrior and Warlock Gear the absolute most.

In our guild, bids would be made to the raid leader or loot officer via PM and the highest bid won. There were no open bidding wars. However, certain items were off limits but to the mains if it was toward completing a legendary or if the weapon was a massive upgrade. It wasn't perfect but everyone was on the same page and we didn't have collectors who bid on anything and everything, even if it wasn't necessarily an upgrade. I think the only issue we encountered from time to time are some players hoarding DKP and not bidding on definite upgrades, with the intent on securing a winning bid on a coveted item later down the road.

My guild uses closed bid DKP system, where you whisper the ML your bid and obviously the highest one wins. I like this system even though you usually "waste" a lot of points if you want to guarantee getting an item. There's also a possibility of collusion between ML and bidding participants ("psst, X bid more than you, wanna up your bid?", "hey, you don't need to go all in, I'll reduce your bid to Y amount and save you some DKP") - that can be solved somewhat by having the ML stream the raid or by having 2 people that have to be whispered in order for your bid to be valid.

10/10 video keep it up m8

I was always lucky in this regard. We had all been friends for so long, and had only a trickle of drama until the end. Just little things. But, people would always pass, based on need or even performance. We did end up splitting because of “extra farm days” after everyone was burned out in Sunwell. My WoTLK guild was super casual time wise, but kicked serious ass. And had only one or two trouble makers and burned out after server first Algalon. I was tiring of the game at this point and that was that. I trained up a replacement MT and said goodbye.

Best vid yet :D