yeah seen a lot of people feeling this same way, it would’ve been more gratifying for salvor to have developed a bit more mental power and used the trick on the guy she was fighting rather than her keep falling for the same trick

@@dudeydude77_clips That would’ve been awesome!

Lol! Same. To be fair though, if someone used a mind trick to pose as one of my kids it would be greatly disturbing.

@@dudeydude77_clipsYep. Instead her trick was activating a trigger lock.

I think one good explanation is that what he was doing was not just changing her perception of his image, but also making her feel how she felt about Hugo - so when she was hurting / killing him he was making her feel that she was killing Hugo as well, not just seeing him like if he had a hologram projected around him

That meeting was one of my favourite parts of the episode and maybe the show so far. He knows who's in charge 😂

Can't wait for the human vs machine vs mentaliks

I didn't notice that until I saw it for the third time. Poor Day didn't even notice he was not being addressed lol

​@@fotografiasromero He's way stupider than Day from last season.

Demerzel serves the concept of Empire at this point, not just his DNA. How else could she have killed Dawn in Season 1 when it was found out he was trying to escape? Like Dawn and Dusk are constantly afraid of this season, they can always just decant another one. I do still think it was Demerzel that altered the DNA but if that's all that was needed then she would have killed them and escaped by now if that was her goal. I think her goals are more complicated than just escaping.

@@ClydeFogI don’t think she means to escape. I think she means to take over completely. Perhaps she was able to kill dawn because of his different DNA but the Cleons don’t know that’s she’s incapable because of their altered memories.

Ikr 😂 cleon just stayed quiet he didnt known how to react

@@ClydeFogmaybe she cant escape so she needed them a little but longer

I wondered that, too. How Demerzel could have killed Season 1 Dawn. Now a way is possible, if the DNA having been altered changes the "code" that Cleon 1 mentions. Demerzel altering the code makes perfect sense except that, wouldn't her programming to preserve the genetic dynasty prevent her from doing so? She definitely plays the long game.

Hari very much represents Asimov himself, I do not think he as pacifist and atheist would split skull of another person.

You couldn’t have said it any better

What if Tellem made them think she died while she shows as Harry, or she has successfully transferred to Gaal?

@@geokon3 she does seem like the Mule and was terrified of him. I dont think she would fool Hari twice, it seems like it was him because his outfit is the same. The transfer wouldn't be complete because the machine was activated to disrupt the brainwaves, I don't think she would have been able to fool them when it was activated.

that is a fair point, however, Tellem is so fucking hateable, well make a collective exception for her@@Feefa99

Sf?

@markobolo4465 Science Fiction

I too, am older than most in these chat groups -so glad to see that I am not alone in the older set! I read the books over a summer long ago, and then used the books to get my two sons -- and now one grandson - into reading. Worked like a charm! I urge that you reread them all if you haven't already. It's truly fun to find little nuggets that have either been forgotten or that are newly caught with raised eyebrows. If the Apple series does nothing else, it has introduced a new generation to the works of Asimov.

@@michaellerner528 I haven't watched the Apple series so I don't know if my favourite Asimov quotation made it into the series: "Violence is the last resort of an incompetent".

@@johnwilson4120 Yikes! how do I put this..... Yes, the quotation made it into the series, said by Salvor as (she) was holding a high capacity weapon, ready to use it on a moments notice. I had at least hoped she might smoke a cigar, but alas, we lost out on that one as well. That quote is a lifetime favorite of mine - and so many others - as well. Especially these days! I stopped watching the series after the first season as I didn't want to pay for it. All I 'm doing in the chat groups is trying to find ways to defend the books, urging people to read them.

He is the worst most evil version of Cleon by far....

Forreal

the robots went to war with humans, and they lost. when you aim for the king you better not miss, or you might find yourself sentient and vivasected placed in a 5 thousand year tomb then enslaved to a clone dynasty for god knows how long more. it's in the handbook.

She is sooo tired of humans, am I right?!

@@universalcollective427 pretty sure a lot of the technology they had back then was lost im not sure theyll be able to win now

A centralized government vs a decentralized

* Which is why Empire falls, no? * No, the Galactic Empire did not fall because of Demerzel. The Galactic Empire is falling because of economics. The Galactic Empire is too set in its way to change.

🎯🎯🎯

@@StevenSiew2 "economics" LUL

Well said!

Lol, me too!!!!

Me to 😅

Same.

Also on this ride.

"All Day"... Like Brother Day....

Ikr 💀

I also think Day was pissed because this reminds him that he is a clone without a soul, and implies that Demerzel is that real power behind the throne because she can just create more copies of him whenever she wants to do so.

...and possibly: "The God's made wine for those whom can not afford revenge"?

@@themidcentrist nah his main frustration is that he is born a copy and his main fear is that he will not make a difference. Thats why he felt the need to say i will be the cleon that will choose peace

Agreed 100%

Exactly. Demerzel has more humanity than humans, even in the OG

Proliferation of immortal beings on this show gotta stop! also, you missed the "mentalick psyche transferred to another body" selves.

@@nitzky8936 that line is over with thanks to a good bashing from one of the other immortals. Also I would not be surprised if the Mule turns out to be the kid we saw helping Salvor. 🤷

@@RandomNPC001 My money was on the Mule being Tellem, after she transferred her consciousness into the kid's body, but considering she was genuinely afraid of him, yeah, it's just the kid.

And the look on Hari's face like 'You're not fit to run an ice cream stand, let alone a galactic realm.'

Incredible, didn't know that, loved Voyager

Wow

She has directed many different shows, she's very talented.

Very good directing. Shit writing .. especially with Foundations "lack of" preparation for war .. and ... the great escaped from powerful Mentallics by Gaal & Salvor. The Foundation had 150 odd years ... to prepare for war with Empire .. and all they had was the Invictus, multiple Whisper ships .. and .. a church making all sorts of high tech gadgets. A grade for Directing. C+ Writing.

Yes, I wondered if that was the same person. She's also got 'executive producer' credits in Foundation.

If it was on a more popular streaming service, it would be. Then again, if that service was Netflix, it would've been cancelled after S1 because it didn't instantly get 100 million views or whatever...

@@corey2232Well, Ted Lasso did just fine on Apple. But they definitely need to make a better job marketing it. Season. 1 didn’t do much…

@@corey2232 And it would look way worse

The problem is, it isn't remotely the Foundation series. It's about 10% of the plot, 40% of the characters and 5% of the scientific speculation of the books. Very frustrating to watch.

​​​​​​​​​​​​@PeterDrake imho - apple tv+'s foundation is more like 10% from books (might be less) 10% game of throne 10% star wars 5% x-men apocalypse 30% cgi (out of this 5% science stuff crap) n 25% character 10% sjw disney horses*** Ps1: the books had psycho-historians in Terminus the whole time but this show has zero p-historian there!!!!!😢 2: channel video review was good; but the cgi was v v good 3: again imho - story writing was good ep1-5 ok for 6-7 terrible for 8 n 9 4: the theme of foundation (I love when I read book 1) was doing small things to change undesired outcome in history (this is missing in these ep.s esp. after ep6 maybe also 5) I m only happy bcoz cgi was excellent, n acting

harris is real deal, the genuine article

Don't forget terror season 1. Also his father Richard Harris was a legendry actor. Dumbledor in Harry potter

And he was also Moriaty in the Sherlock Holmes movies.

"The Expanse" was just another level....

​@@ABDULQADIR-yy6qmi'd say with this episode, foundation has overtaken the expanse. but ofc, the expanse is still the gold standard in hard scifi.

She will probably drop her hands, when she will have the chance/ power to disobey ..

From the first encounter of her in Season 1, I always saw this hand hold as submission and absolute dedication to 'Empire'.

My guess at why she suddenly pauses and leaves, is that somehow she founds out the current Dawn is now a father and his DNA is mixed with Sareth's, so basically she is not bound anymore to the next heir to the throne. So at that point she knows she can ditch Day. Basically the chip forcing her to do that is useless. And she might be free. Or soon.

@@Pomaufour Most likely she got an urgent message from the original empire:)). So far the show didn't show us this capability of the future Asimov envisioned but it exist in canon. I think the consciousness' of Joanne d'Arc and Voltaire where somehow recreated.??

A hell of a thing. Hard to see how even so experienced a robot could survive such conflicted programming.

I kinda hope so, Game of Thrones was outstanding serie that have a massive cult talking about it. But Foundation, as a book or serie could potentially be bigger than that if only in could reach a large audience.

Yasss

Pretty sure they would've announced S3 by now if it weren't for the months long writers/actors strike. Sadly, the strike is going to result in very delayed seasons of a lot of good shows.

4 season's , just an F y i

But a lot of people say it's deviating from the books although I haven't read them

@@markobolo4465 each book has a new generation of character's , where as in the tv show , there fixed on only a few , which is why i like pauly in season 2

I was actually expecting Demerzel to just basically take Day out or freeze him and later just make him forget, to discuss with Hari in private.

Yeap! and he tells her "you'll just uncork another" which really pisses him off. It reminds him that he is a clone with apparently no soul.

Omg this is the best take yet i really think he did

Another crisis before The Mule perhaps

She potentially started making robots long ago, physical Hari is probably a robot, Kalle is probably a robot, Hari’s lover was most likely a robot and wasn’t really pregnant… someone’s pulling his strings for sure.

⁠​⁠@@djBlindFaith Bedroom assassination episode, she stated that her consciousness is “decentralized”. That would imply multiple physical spares of herself, with the same directive to serve the empire. Then also safe to assume creating robots with three robotic laws built in , repeats past enslavement of her kind. And reproducing robots with free will, is against her programming. So what is her end game, ending the clone dynasty? Or taking down the entire empire , aka whole galaxy of humans to gain her freedom?

ohhh, I like that, I thought he may have uploaded information into her, somehow, just like he tagged a ride inside Brother Constant. But I think you may be right with Hari altering her code and freeing the shackles, a bit.

I don't think you understand. Harl is now a Robot A.I. and so is the "Prime Radiant" it has a Robot A.I. that Harl did not create. Then their is Demerzel as well, this not looking good for Brother Day who doesn't really know what is going on.

@@Madame702 I do understand that, but that’s not what I’m talking about. When I saw all three of them together in that one scene, I realized that they all have the common thread of longevity in their story line. Harry and Cleon are not their original selves because they’ve managed a way to bypass the constraints of mortality by prolonging their time and existence to see their plans unfold. Since Demerzel is a robot she naturally has time on her side. They’re the only 3 characters of the show that share that common thread of longevity. To your point, yes, it’s not looking good for Day because he’s unable to see the destruction that his Ego is creating, hence becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy if Demerzel doesn’t take heed of Harri’s advice.

@@3cords_1braidyou’re entirely correct. Well spotted.

The Empire- Clones Hari- the Vault nanotech Demerzel- Robot Kalle- Prime Radiant Gaal and Salvor- Cryopods

Gaal and Salvor's story on Ignis is set days or more before what we see happen on Terminus. I think there is a reason, and the fact we have been shown that mentalics can project illusions might play into my theory that Terminus wasn't destroyed. If the mentalics projected the illusion to fool Empire, and no one on Terminus died, we might see Glawyn talk to Bel over the private comm that he had established - fueling Bel's desire to aide Foundation. It would take a lot of mentalics to project that scale of an illusion but with the aide of the Spacers they might be able to get there in time. Perhaps the spacers tagged Hober Mallow based to help Gaal - remember, Gaal's story is taking place before Hober is found by Poly. Gaal could have a future vision of Terminus and know what to do.

@@mojorothat’s a stunning, ambitious take. If it goes down like this I’d like to see how they swing it.

b not m

Cleons will fall, she will be exposed as being ‚the enemy resurrected‘ and go into hiding. She will have ‚robots in disguise‘ planted throughout the empire to aid her in her goals (whatever they are)

Except for Gael

A very nice episode but i wasnt expecting Terminus to be destroyed. cuz now in fact there's no foundation except for the prime Radiant

@@Jean-jw4hw did the Foundation scientists get evacuated as prisoners?

@@Jean-jw4hwThere's literally a book called The Second Foundation, it's mentioned all throughout the series as well.

I just finished and came here immediately……shit I’m blown away…

yes but no, the second foundation is supposed to exist at the same timeline as the 1st, and except if i missed something, we have no info about the 2nd foundation,and to me its not yet created, since gaal chose something else. @@laszlosteiner

It could be the prime radiant hacking the visuals , I hope foundation as a series doesn't do something as cheap but hey who knows

That is the understatement of the year. I mean WTF!!! Terminus was DESTROYED??!!?? When did that happen in the books?? We are in uncharted territory now

I just hope they don't do some stupid time traveling to the past and bring it back. I have no idea where the story is going to go now.@@Doremon95

My thoughts exactly... It's virtually plagiarism!

Indeed. It was a bit jarring in season 1 given how different this show is firm the books but it has really come into its own in season 2 and is now its own creation.

🤣😂😂😂😂

Right? Like ahhhhh I can just relax for a minute here and stop wondering about all the plot twists. ❤

The space battle was a joke. Foundation had 150 years to prepare for war with Empire .. including copying & improving the Invictus ... and all they had ... was the Invictus, multiple whisper ships with guns .. and .. and a Church making the latest greatest tech. FFS. Salvor Hardin ... stopped the Huntress .. jumping the Invictus .. into Trantor to destroy it completely ... and nobody on Terminus ... though have have Whisper ship Drones ... loaded with nukes ... prepare to jump into any of Empire's Battleships ... protecting the entire planet?

​@@abelincoln8885true, and they have boxes of personal shealds but no one was using them wtf is this. I was hoping for epic battle for terminus but they delivered nothing.

@@abelincoln8885 I didn’t feel “robbed” of a great battle because I don’t think that’s what Foundation is about. I expect that from Star Wars but not Foundation. But you’re not wrong, as there was some build up to this and confidence by the Foundation in winning the inevitable coming conflict with Empire. Maybe Terminus was some sort of decoy? The Foundation now has a presence in other systems

No but please remember the "Prime Radiant" has the Robot A.I. Kali within it. Will it influence Demerzel? She has been alone for so long how will she react to coming in contact with another Robot after so long. Can Kali change her A.I. ?

Well the "robots revolt" caricature is from Isaac Asimov. I would be surprised if they would not delve deeper into the three laws of robotics and why they were insufficient to prevent such revolution. It's something that really exists as a theoretical problem and there is no way to this day that would give us capability to permanently control truly sentient AI.

@@aleks5405 No they don't have the rights to that but they will light touch on it because "The foundation" series they do have rights to that. Just remember Demerzel is in both Robot and Foundation. So they walk a line where the Demerzel of Foundation exist and not go into the Robot Demerzel.

@@aleks5405 It is an Isaac Asimov trope BUT David Goyer is waaaaaaay off the map from the source material. And in this case, I prefer to hope that the hubris of man is ultimately what doomed him. As Seldon said, you can’t have both longevity and power.

Hold that thought about leaving the mess of the Empire..... Goyer mentioned that the seires will end like the books in his interview with Pete. No spoilers - just hold that thought.

I suspect they will blow up Trantor very soon. Shows often follow the “this is going to be awful (ie destroy terminus)” followed by something even worse (trantor destroyed or another planetary system)……..

Maybe that is what will bring the second foundation to Trantor? Where it was supposed to be accordingvto the books.

came here to say the same thing. Way to go Pete!

i recommend the podcast with the show runner too.

no problem

She-Hulk? lol

@@joso7228 top notch show right there lol.

He said it to Poly, who literally worships Harry

Ah, cool ! That should be interesting

Where can i find it ? ( no pun intended ), I'm in the UK

In all sincerity, there is no way with all the money they have spent, and not give us a proper finale. It wouldnt suprise me that it doesn't go to movie length at all.

I skipt the Foundation story line and only watch the Cleons. Happy there is less to skip now.

@@oXogon80 lol

I partially agree with you, but the destruction of Terminus looked pretty definitive to me. I hope they don't fall back into the trope of a time rewind, or it was just all in Day's head, as he is actually back in the vault with Seldon.

@@chs_ambs8356 well don't forget Hari wrote Hober Mallow on the Vault long after it appeared to them. The 4-dimensional nature of the Prime Radiant could make a lot of things possible. I guess we'll find out in a week.

When he said to Demerzel “invent a new one” I felt like he was saying “raise a better Cleon than this dude bro you brought me.”

@@kilgarywhen she told day that she had already failed and to let him do what he was always bound to do and it wasn’t their “win”

It could be in Cleon's head, since Demerzel in the books is a robot with mentallic powers so she could somehow control his mind

Yeah, the books would'be been really difficult to film in any direct way. What they've managed to build from its foundation (ha?) is actually quite impressive though. I know some people were lukewarm on S1, but I've greatly enjoyed S2 overall. In fact, this episode in particular was one of the best episodes of TV I've seen this year.

@@corey2232I agree completely. Season 2 really stepped up their game.

Agreed! I also love the portrayal of Seldon's character. Jared Harris is such a great actor; Loved him in the mini series "Chernobyl", in the first season of the "Terror" series, and in "Sherlock Holmes: A game of Shadows" as Moriarty! I hope the show runners don't kill off his Character!

The books in their written format were unfilmable. This adaptation while staying a long way from the books in story structure has kept the spirit of the story and that’s what counts.

it’s because his DNA had been altered, meaning he wasn’t pure cleon the 1st and could therefore be harmed by her

@@jacob3872 but also means that the regular Cleons can be harmed once they deviate too far genetically. Maybe we will see that scene play out.

Demerzel serves Empire. Dawn had to have been such a threat as she watched the chaos of Day and Dusk fighting, so she took matters into her own hands for the good of Empire.

The genetic drift! he was the start of the clones no longer being "Cleon!" And none of them would realize she overcame the law because they had no memory of knowledge of it until present time Dusk

All great movies / series are good because they have a great villain/actor , look at batman for example :)

yea its like 'hey we can't go get my 2nd in command and husband? we really need to blow it up this SECOND??' Day is such a dick but I think he still feels burned from Demerzel

agreed and I'm sure this Dawn would have liked to keep the Invictus for personal use (especially after seeing Hobor's Whisper Ship in action).

@@ClydeFog yeah he is a soldier in their army why would they just abandon him. Its just stupid

You know, deep down I knew Day was going to delete Glawen somehow so he could draw more loyalty from Bel Riose. That ending was just sooo tragic!

Selmac and his husband... Brother Constant's fathers?? Gone or protected inside the Vault.

@@DrMJTSilly me, I thought the guy with the mustache was her older brother and her mom must be Thespin because they both have purple eyes.

Sef and Paeta. Poly. The pain Constance felt knowing her parents were gone. Most of all Demerzel. Christ this story is so painful.

I'm not as emotionally attuned to their story, it's all frivolous time wasting to me between the robot and space ship stuff

kind words

The heck you were. EYE was waiting the whole day.

I was looking for this comment! I figured the necklace bel gave glawen before the battle had the little piece and expected him to put the bracelet on Day to switch their places.

It was still important though. It was the key to developing their whisper ship technology.

Loved his more austere Cleon I version

I thought she was going to say the name when she shared her history in the other form

I think that was deliberate. She danced around saying the name in a way that everyone who wanted to hear it thought it was coming at any second.

good question! maybe her mind is decentralized but the programming prevents her to change appearances, meaning she’ll have to remain Dermezel. And about her origin, on the podcast David told they have a flashback about it and if the series goes long enough we’ll see it.

Perhaps you need to read the I, Robot series. I wonder who has the broadcasting rights for those (hopefully not Will Smith)?

Weeellll..... there's what the books say about who built her/him and there's what the series has to say about about it. For finding out who built the robot -- and why -- read 'Caves of Steel' (quite dated, but the story serves as an introduction to all that follows including Foundation). It's a quick read, and is the base for everything that happens to - or deeds done by - this character. I don't think I can really spoil anything, as the series has gone off on it's own tangent, but still, the series has been known to throw sharp turns back to certain story threads and making complicated switchbacks to keep a theme going (?)and I think this is going to have to be one of them, if only because the ending would have to be rewritten (which would be the penultimate switch). I don't think Demerzel's story as it stands is finished - I think there will be a twist or two or three....or five.....At any rate, I hope it will somehow veer back to where it belong so it can end as the books do -- it's what made the books so satisficing. Let me try to work around some of your questions: In the little book 'Caves of Steel,' the original purpose of the robot R Daneel/Demerzel was to "blend in" to human crowds on Earth to get a sense of whether or not Earthers would be willing to migrate off of Earth. Because Earthers hated robots, the robot had to look like a human, hence the creation of a humaniform robot (created by 2 scientists form another planet called Arura who were working on Earth at the time). So yes the series was correct -- the robot was built on Earth and yes, the robot is 18,000 years old. That purpose was abruptly changed, however, due to a murder. The robot was then reprogramed with a strong pull towards justice, and he is matched up with a human detective to solve the murder. That in a nutshell, is the creation story. Next.... The robot's name in the books is actually R Daneel Olivaw , the R designating Daneel as a robot. The fact that he was a humaniform robot made him special and indeed, a very unique, one of a kind robot. - all others looked like mechanical robots -- think C3PO from Starwars, which itself paid homage to one of the major robots characters in Asimov's books. Several things over the course of the books made R Daneel even more unique: he came to act more like a person than a robot, and at one point, he gains the ability to "touch" human minds to strengthen an idea to move the human to a desired action (read 'Robots of Dawn' for this development). Finally, and most importantly he reprograms himself with the zeroth law (or 4th law as some people refer to it). This changes his entire dynamic. While he had "human owners", with the application of the zeroth law, he was freed of serving individual people. As Demerzel said in the series, she was built on Earth, but her ownership became complicated - she ended up with no owner. Freedom: no robot ever has complete freedom, at least as the books go. The kind of lost freedom Demerzel has is something entirely different in the series - it is literal, not related to the three laws of robotics at all. So yes -- I agree with you -- it is a plot hole, which I assume will be addressed - or not (some plotlines seem to just disappear... ). Robots in Asimov's worlds are strictly locked into the 3 laws of robotics. They serve humans - always. Except for R Daneel, who with the application of the zeroth law, was able to change his programing. He served no single person, but rather, all of humanity. He was regarded as a renegade, and there was a price on his head, but was always one step ahead of those who hunted him. He went about creating thousands of zeroth/Fourth law robots to help him with his work. This sparked the Robot Wars - a war between the 3 law and 4 law robots. The wars ended in a draw, and somewhere in it all it is mentioned that the wars were so carefully fought that humans didn't even know it was happening (a robot may not harm a human). So I don't know where the series is going with Demerzel's punishment as a result of the wars. Maybe it was just used as a device to get her to a punishment in that vault. What the character actually wants: What the character in the books wants is to stop existing -- 20,000 leaves any one - or thing - awfully tired. Precisely why he has not been able to stop is the breadth of 7 books. Again, it is the ending that makes the entire book series so satisfying -- it truly is what R Daneel wants. What the series does with this .... who can say...... I think there will be lot of swerving around to keep people guessing. I hope that the series will land on the ending that the books offer. I guess we will just have to wait and see.....

@@joso7228 Your hopes are well grounded -- Will Smith does NOT have the rights to the I Robot series - 20th Century Fox does. They sit on it very tightly. It's why Goyer can't use the name 'Daneel', as it would be a licensing infringement. Goyer has said that he has received permission to use "Daneel", but who knows? They've supposedly had someone writing scripts, but nothing has come of it. Goyer has now said that he would willing to take on the Elijah Baley /Daneel books , as 20th Century has loved what he has done with Foundation. I'm not a fan of Goyer' s work, so I step aside on conversations about his navigation those books.

@@michaellerner528 I appreciate you taking the time to drop that write-up. It's definitely informative. I haven't read the books, and I probably wasn't because I've really liked the show thus far, but I think I'm doing myself a disservice by not reading them. From what you wrote, seems like I'm seriously missing out on a lot. Any particular order I should start from?

Yes, wasn't there a thing when they found "the new Hari" on the giant hand where it was said "he's not registering as life sign" but because of the rushed circumstances (under attack by mining machines), they just grabbed him and moved on? Everything on that old mining planet speaks of AI's and robots under their own control and manipulating circumstances?

@@stevenjones6780I thought they said he did register as a life sign, which is how they found him on the statue.

@@nav579 Yup, I went back and watched it. Oh how they kill characters off several times in these modern shows!

@@stevenjones6780 so that brings up an interesting question. If he is suddenly in a live body, given to him by this mysterious person named Kalle… Who has the resources to clone a body like that? Also, Kalle is apparently someone Gaal knew from long ago. And on that planet with the statue, Kalle did not register as a life form. To me, this implies she is a robot. The connections with the empire’s capabilities are very interesting to me..

@@nav579Gaal never “knew” Kalle, but she read The 9th Proof of Folding which she used to solve Abraxas & thus leave Synnax to meet Hari.

or it could just be bad writing - they gave him a body so Tellem could mind-control him, then his return is the hologram embedded in their spaceship.

No no I think the second foundation might as well be the mentalics…

Its looking more and more that the 2nd Foundation will just be a continuation of the first imo

@@joso7228 I don't think the writing is bad. They are obviously using elements from all the books, as opposed to the somewhat segmented stories of the books. I was expecting some features from the books to have the same timeline in the show, even with the changes, but I'm not personally bothered by the changes. I'm just a bit confused as to what those changes will bring. Personally, I think putting the books on screen would have been boring. They are good as books but would not have made a good show if someone had directly translated them into a show. I'm pleased with their version of the story, yet I don't know where they go from here.

@@jportega9404 Maybe. Only time/more seasons will tell.

thanks so much!

Brother Day wants power and to win more than any single thing in the universe, that's his motivation, to outsmart Seldon and PsychoHistory, but he's not mentally or emotionally capable, so he reverts to his genetic programming and reveling in, what I believe to be, a very short lived scorched earth policy

Well their going to be a reckoning. Just remember we know that the Robots survived the Robot wars. Demerzel is one, the Kali is the other. Hari Seldon is now a Robot A.I. and the Prime Radiant has a Robot A.I. within it.

Yes, because: "The God's made wine (decanted yet another Cleo-ne) for those whom can't afford revenge"