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"Depending of what you believe, this game is either an optimistic love story or a complete tragedy." Personally, I feel the best love stories are both.

rinoa represents livin for today so u dont hav regrets later, while ultimecia represents bein consumed n obsessed by ur past n past regrets. hope/joy vs regret/despair

FF8 is an infinite time loop where you the OP Rinoa sends a feather to squall in ED to let him know she was Ultimecia. Game is hiding the aspect but I will write down the biggest point for the theory. 1. Time compression room where Rinoa meets Edea has many save points. This indicate that she went there many times. Plus, the Squall ED shows him meeting Rinoa many times. There is a scene where he is circling himself while Rinoa cling to him. I think this indicate the loop part of Rinoa story. 2. Black and White Rinoa picture clearly shows Black and white feathers. Also the OP shows Rinoa coming from black feathers not white! Hence the ending is Rinoa after getting rid of Ultimecia. The one who died came back to Rinoa. Not forgeting after beating Final Ultimecia, white feathers comes out of her. 3. Griever is funny subject but Rinoa says in Japanese whe tries to become a lion when Squall tell her the ring name, Which is what happened in the final battle. 4. Ultimecia Castle is where the promise garden which shows a link between the players and Ultimecia. 5. The logo is clearly shows Rinoa's finger going to become a witch clearly. The sad love story she is losing memory because of the GF. Hence can't remember Squall. But she has feeling which leave all the hints of the place of the castle and the monsters etc. 6. In FF8 Ultimania supposed to be named Eternal. We can speculate that is comes from the eternal loop she is living. This is one is not in the game but "Maybe I'am a Lion" naming is really intresting. If you take the "a lion" you can change it to "Maybe I'am Linoa" In Japanese, the don't have the letter L therefor it could saying"Maybe I'am Rinoa" Japanese analyze it throughly more than any English video I have seen.

Rinoa as Ultimecia didn't know she was fighting her former lover and herself at the end of the game due to having Griever junctioned for so long. There's no way the lore of amnesia as a consequence of using GFs only comes into play in the story just once for the orphanage scene. It happens too early on for it to never be a factor again. I believe that scene was meant to demonstrate how bad it can be, and lets you imagine how much worse it can get if you keep using them indefinitely. Rinoa at the flower field laments about what she thinks might happen to her if she remains a sorceress. Edea gives Rinoa advice on being a sorceress, saying she should have a knight by her side. She postulates that Ultimecia doesn't have a knight in her time. Rinoa makes Squall her knight, and says that it would only be okay for Squall to "pierce my heart." Ellone's motives for sending Squall and co. to the past was to try to get Laguna to stay in Winhill with Raine so he could be with her when she died. She failed, but she tells Squall that it was good enough to see how loved she was. This could parallel Ultimecia's motivation to see the past, so that she can experience that feeling again after her heart turned bitter after losing her knight, Squall, whom she forgot about due to her GF, Griever. Years of being ostracized, of being hunted and hated, of being ALONE, have corrupted her, turning her white wings to black. However, seeing the past with no memory of it in order to see how loved you once were is an exercise in futility. I can see that eventually she would have nothing left to lose, which is a dangerous state for anyone to be in, let alone a sorceress. Junction Machine Ellone is no longer enough; thus her motivations to find Ellone, achieve time compression, and essentially wipe everyone and everything out, because the hell with everyone for treating me this way. Squall and Rinoa later battle each other and don't know it due to the GFs. Squall pierces her heart like they talked about, only neither know whom they're actually facing. This doesn't necessarily have to define the story as a tragedy if you accept that there isn't necessarily a time loop. The story only says that you can't change the PAST; it doesn't say that peoples' actions in the present can't determine a different future, meaning there is not necessarily a concept of fate or destiny. So when they return to their time, maybe things can turn out differently. Even if there is a loop, they are still together, happy, until Squall's eventual death. The theme of loneliness vs. love shines through either way.

She’s a great contrast to Ultimecia like the inverse Ying and yang equivalent of eachother, I’ve never understood why the fanbase barely mentions her and she’s developed this underrated status.

I always took Ultimecia wanting time compression to have everything in one "place" so she could finally find Squall because she couldn't exactly find him and I think theres something to the GF Greiver affecting her memory after a while. I mean Squall and the gang (excluding Rinoa) used GFs for maybe 5 years and forgot about their childhood to an extent so imagine using a GF for MUCH longer .. idk I just love to believe this because it really adds so much to the game because otherwise Ultimecia wanting time compression is for what? Plus Ultimecias castle is where her and Squall promised to meet she probably doesnt remember why she literally chained her castle to "That Place"

It's neat that Rinoa got Squall to be more comfortable showing his emotions and letting his friends in more. Squall is still introverted(not a bad thing at all) but at the end trusts his close friends more and lets them in instead of pushing them away. This is thanks to Rinoa. At the same time when Rinoa becomes a Sorceress she start expressing introverted qualities herself and ends up disliking the company of others except her few friends and obviously Squall. So while she taught Squall the importance of friendship in the middle to late game he also taught her the power of introspective strength when you have a lot to process in life.

Something to note is that I don't think Ultimecia actually looses. She created a loop that lets her live the cycle on and on, younger Edea getting those powers created that loop, so even when she "dies" she'll get to live out her past again and again. She picks Edea as a prime target to connect to Squall on this loop, who pretty much encouraged Squall, as his destiny, to face Ultimecia. Part of the this theory could be that she does this to keep the loop intentionally keep the past she laments loosing, this could possibly be her past with Squall in this theory. It could be thought that her attacking them is all part of the plan knowing she will lose to him (and friends) setting up the cycle to repeat during the compression. The start of the battle with her, she's very... wacky, loud, laughing and all that. But in the last form, suddenly takes a different tone, and drops the accent, perhaps knowing that the time has come to "recycle," at least if she doesn't get what is at least perceived to be her way in the end. Honestly, if she is the only one that can survive in the truly time-compressed world. What would all that power matter if everyone and everything else is gone? Who knows what happens between the "present" and Ultimecia's future, but it's very interesting. I like the theory because it adds a sense of connection with the theme, as to why she seems to set that loop up in that exact spot. It's tragic for sure.... but it can also be seen as the villain actually winning, as the loop will never actually let her (or anyone in the past she loved) die forever. Had another thought. On the note of Ellone trying to change the past, Ellone realized that she couldn't actually change it, but hoped to at least learn from viewing the past and understand things she didn't before, although they also do apparently say that their is minor influences? Laguna said he felt something in the past, and Rinoa hear's Squall before she's about to pass out? I feel like this could be a similar goal to the whole thing as well.

this was so great. Something else interesting about the character of Rinoa is how divided people seem to be on whether rinoa fits or totally breaks the female love interest stereotype. on one hand, people tend to point out the fact that she always gets into trouble, that she has a bubbly personality, and that she (apparently) only exists as a plot device to show squall's growth. The first two points are really just a result of her having a pampered upbringing, and I can't really agree with the latter as Rinoa goes through her own character arc, and is pretty fleshed-out. when you get down to it, Rinoa really broke the mold- she took on the aggressive role in courting squall, and turned out to be the one who saved him in the end, despite needing saving several times herself. all in all Rinoa was an incredibly realistic character, which makes sense if we're to believe the rumor that she was actually based on a real person who worked at Square at the time.

The theory just adds so much more depth to the story and the two characters. I love the theory.

I love Rinoa she changed Squall for the better seems like Squall seems comfortable around Rinoa :)

I was just thinking about Ultimecia. If you think about the in game draw system, you can equate what Ultimecia has been doing with the sorceress throughout all time, controlling them from her time, through some machine(I forgot how). When she takes a hold of the sorceresses, one at a time, it seems like she has access to their memories as well as their present day, as well. Remember the ring that Rinoa takes and copies? That, and all of the things Rinoa experienced, about herself, Squall, and the time around her, Ultimecia had full access to when she took hold of her at the end of disc two, into disc three. Maybe Rinoa isn't Ultimecia. (How else would Ultimecia know to make a reference to Squall Dancing with Rinoa in Dissidia?)

I personally prefer the "Rinoa is Ultimecia" theory. It, to me, completes the story. I do understand why some fans reject the theory. As far as Ultimecia going insane and wanting to destroy SeeD and Squall, that makes alot more sense than Ultimecia just being a random sorceress going after them. Your final words at the end about "Ultimecia couldn't accept the past" whereas the orphans accepted the past and moved on, I like that contrast between the two.

It’s been awhile since I played the game but I don’t remember ultimecia ever trying to kill past squall and rinoa, hear me out, I remember her sending the statues after rinoa to “kill” her but they reached her immediately and barely laid a hand on her by the time squall reached her even though she was incapable of defending herself, and the part that invited the squall death theory, when he was impaled by edea, instead of killing him he’s healed and taken captive and rinoa whom was literally standing right there, was returned to her father. Doesn’t sound like something someone who wants you dead would do.

If Rinoa is Ultimecia that makes the song The Extreme all the more impactful, because Squall has to put down the Woman he loves.

About your remarks on Rinoa's impulsivity at 3:08 : I read someone's article about this. Actually Rinoa suggested to discuss a rather good idea about subduing Edea by using the necklace. However, nobody listens to her, they shut her down, because they saw her as a naive amateur.

Do you think Rinoa has a more negative reaction to the party playing Eyes On Me (compared to her more favourable reaction to the trad song), at Fisherman’s Horizon because it reminds her of her dead mother and so she’s more sensitive to it not being performed correctly? Just something I thought about during my current playthrough, where I forgot which song gets the best reaction!

Just saying, Squall GF is called Griever for a reason. Grief is ultimately a pain that more often than not, sets us down a very dark path. Meaning that Ultimecia is literally weaponizing her own internal grief, not to mention, that it was stated about the mid point in the game that GF causes memory loss. You could see the transformations that take place during the boss fight as symbolic of the twisted state of her mind as she loses more control during the fight. I wish this theory was canonized because it can in my opinion give way more to work with, and even more to ponder with.

Your ability to understand the narrative sharply and properly on its own terms is really refreshing against the wave of narrative deconstruction. And you're extremely articulate too! Good stuff!

This game gets a lot of undue criticism because the plot isn't spoonfed to the player like it is with most other games

Underrated ff channal

The algorithm suggested this video once and I turned it down as I was playing the game. Came up again just now as I finished it a few days ago. You've gained a sub. Rinoa is Ultimecia.

Just finished the game today and read up on it. On one han di really want to believe the rinoa is ultimecia theory because this would result in a lot fo interesting themes. Especially the thought of her doing the whole timeloop plan to get back to the good days, yet her G.F. she desperately held on to to remember Squall erasing her memory of him. There is something amazignly tragic about someone waiting thousands of years to bring back someone they lost, only to forget the objective along the way and not even recognizing them when they come back. The evidence stil seems forced to me though sadly. Durign my playthrough i almost expected her to be Ellione since she basically used the same power as her. Still kinda confused about this, i thought Ellione was a witch since she had this power, but she was never considered as a target for ultimecia and i really didn't get how she defeated Adell and cause the timetravel into the future. Still, if she had like an actual relationship to squall this might have made sence, but despite being his sister they really didn't do much

Great video, this theory is always intriguing. You mention how it undermines the game’s themes and character development etc, but your analysis left me with a competing interpretation I wanted to share. What if we consider that Rinoa both is and isn’t Ultimecia? To me, it seems feasible that Rinoa could, in at least 1 timeline, join the SeeD party, prosper through the climactic battle with the evil sorceress in time compressed reality, and return to / bring Squall back from the void to their reality/meeting place-only to still succumb to pain, fear and isolation (negative themes in the game, but acknowledged in Eyes On Me choruses) to become Ultimecia and repeat the cycle. But to me the redemption arc is achieved if we infer the possibility of a timeline wherein Sorceress Rinoa endures the influential trauma assumed by R=U (squalls death, being ostracized, whatever) and passes her power as her lifespan naturally ends. I see it as though, regardless of how many timelines Rinoa DOES become Ultimecia, the manifestation of a single timeline where Rinoa doesn’t become Ultimecia is our more meaningful happy love story ending. R=U adds so much more context to the game’s story in my opinion, so I’m probably just unreasonably resistant to discard the theory. Anyways, great video, just wanted to share my takeaway.

After accepting R=U, the theory for Ultimecias seemingly senseless attempts to kill her long lost lover Squall and past self Rinoa in the time compressed world would be that, the continuous use of GFs over the centuries have drained her core memories to the point of forgetting who they are. So not just a loss of her lover, but a loss of herself, which is an ultimate conclusion to her pessimist view of passage of time. Makes the game that much more fucked up. I like it

you know what would be cool? if ultimecia's first stage has a second phase where she uses "angel wings" and gives herself haste, reflect (that gets demoted to shell after a couple turns), and protect. for added coolness, her wings could open up and the black feathers could fall off revealing a white layer underneath

I'd always wondered why Griever appeared in the final battle, but the way you explained it reminds me of Gozer conjuring up the Stay Puft marshmallow man in Ghostbusters.

Additional thought on why Rinoa can't be Ultimecia: The theory requires accepting the idea that Sorceresses are immortal, or at least ageless. However that idea is only supported by the one line at the end of the game where it's stated that a Sorceress cannot die in piece without passing on her powers. However I don't think that means what people pretend it does. It's only saying a Sorceress cannot "die in piece" without passing on her powers, not that a Sorceress can chose to extend her life by not passing on her powers. Also, the idea of immortal or ageless Sorceresses undermines themes and plot points of the story. For instance if Adel had no reason to fear, or at least plan for death, Ellone never would have been kidnapped. If Ellone were never kidnapped, Odine never would have studied her and created the Junction Machine Ellone. Without the Junction Machine Ellone, Ultimecia would never have been able to posses people in the past to attempt Time Compression. In fact, Ultimecia would have little reason to want to attempt Time Compression if Sorceresses were immortal or ageless. Her whole reason for wanting Time Compression is to achieve ultimate power by drawing on the power of all Sorceresses caught in Time Compression, and to make her self immortal so that she doesn't have to face death. As you so well pointed out, Ultimecia fears death.

Currently about halfway through the video, I'm just gonna say it: Yoshinori Kitase has confirmed that the Rinoa/Ultimecia theory is bunk. But personally, I say feel free to have your own head-canon. It's nowhere near as stupid as the Shepard Indoctrination Theory.

I personally don't see the connection between Rinoa & Ultimecia. Edea is a prime example. She was a Sorceress long before Ultimecia possessed her. Did Edea go on a rampage before then? No, she didn't. Both Edea & Rinoa wanted to be good people & were good people. Adel on the other hand was very clearly evil, and even by Adel's appearance, heavily monstrous. Adel wasn't possessed by anyone, heck Ultimecia wasn't aware of Adel til much much later. And if Rinoa really was Ultimecia, then she would've known about Adel, and she would've known about quite a number of other events, such as Rinoa's memory of killing Ultimecia. Ultimecia in the final fight does indeed mention that she will pull the thing that Squall sees as the strongest thing in existence and use it against him. Now tell me, if she was Rinoa and was ALREADY in possession of Griever, what would be the point of pulling it out of someone else's mind? GF's get stronger as your bond with them increases and thus allows them to use greater & greater power, compounded by the power of the user - In other words, Ultimecia's GF in this (dumb) theory would be MUCH MUCH more powerful than Squall's. There are other things to consider: Possession. Possessing someone requires overtaking their mind. The mind is what allows us to control our bodies. But what else is in the mind? Memories and Knowledge. Ultimecia possessed both Edea and Rinoa, then finally Adel in an effort to use that power she wanted to use. Again, lets say she is Rinoa, then her Possession of Rinoa would be like a reminder for her: "Wait, I'm possessing myself, I remember being possessed before" and would've known about her past self's attempt to assassinate Edea, that Seifer would lose multiple times, and that Edea would eventually be freed of her will, and thus would inevitably lead to her death. If she REALLY was Rinoa, she'd have knowledge of events that ALREADY HAPPENED FOR HER. And on to the whole bit of her forgetting Squall and becoming Ultimecia in an effort to find him again: Easy solution: DON'T ENACT THE PLAN, the future inevitably changes, and since there was no "Time Compression" that caused Rinoa to lose Squall in the first place, they'd never lose each other. And how the bloody hell does it make any sense to try to kill the one you love, the one you've been trying to find all this time, multiple times???? Yes, GFs causes you to lose your memories, but as stated earlier, if she already had Griever, there'd be no reason to pull it out of Squall's mind, especially since her Griever would be much more powerful. And again if she were Rinoa, simply possessing her younger self would be enough to jog her memory! And finally, since GFs causes you to lose your memory, then wouldn't she had forgotten about Squall ENTIRELY by then? Seifer was forgetting about things as well and did end up reverting to his old ways, and since Time Compression would have eliminated a huge chunk of her memory, using a GF constantly (as theorists claim) would have significantly erased more of her past, Rinoa met Squall she was a Young Adult, so if she had a GF and had been constantly using it, for whatever reason, the memory of Squall would've been long gone, which defeats the entire point of doing time compression in an effort to save someone you can't remember... How do you save someone when you can't remember them? How can you still love this person when you can't remember them? And yes, Sorceress powers are Inherited but at the choice of the Sorceress in their final moments. They cannot die until they pass on their powers to another. And if Ultimecia is Rinoa, then wouldn't it make more sense to pass on that power to your younger self? Instead Ultimecia gave it to Edea, the very woman she possessed previously. No one is born a sorceress, it was explained and shown in the game ffs. It's like the theorists have been using GFs of their own, otherwise they'd know this fact. Plus he's another one for you all - Edea has always been a Brunette even before she acquired serious power from Ultimecia, why didn't her hair color change? People are claiming that Rinoa is Ultimecia, both have different hair colors, both look young, what would be the point of changing your hair color to match a person you previously fought so hard to defeat? Why get the exact same tattoos? Why dress up in the exact same outfit? Rinoa lost Squall after they defeated Ultimecia, so why make yourself look exactly like the being your lover previously killed?????? Do you see the inconsistencies of this theory??? It makes no bloody sense for Rinoa and Ultimecia to be the same person. Plus, there's another inconsistency to think about. She inherited Ultimecia's powers. She saw Ultimecia's face. Which would mean she would much later see Rinoa's face and have seen the connection. Plus EVERYONE ELSE, they all would've had the same thought: "Ultimecia oddly looks like Rinoa", yet none of them did. Here's a more likely possibility: She's a descendent, not an immediate like daughter or grand daughter, but very likely several generations. Could the descendant inherit the powers needed from another Sorceress? Yes. Entirely possible. It's not passed on like genetics, it's passed on by the choice of the dying Sorceress. And there'd could have been several Sorceresses after Edea and whoever else might've been a Sorceress. It's way more likely that Ultimecia did it for selfish reasons just like every other Final Boss of The Final Fantasy series. Every Final Boss has one goal in mind, more power. And once they've achieved whatever goal they want, they want to destroy absolutely everything. Kefka, Neo-Ex-Death, Zeromus, Sephiroth, and many others tried to end everything. It sounds more like the theorists are just desperate to make the final boss seem relatable in an effort to make her different from the other Final Bosses.

The fan theory makes the Ultimecia character so much deeper and tragic. I like it. Makes the character so much more interesting. Without it, the character feels cheap. It'll be one of the best plot twist in gaming also. If FFVIII were to ever get a remake, i hope they consider the R=U theory. Everything fits. Griever would also be given a much deeper feel. Remember only Rinoa knew who or what Griever was since she's the only one that we know of that Squall told. There's too much to support it.

The game is absolutely filled with things that scream R=U but to me the biggest is when Squall and Rinoa agree that if they ever get lost, they'll meet at the flower field - she'll be waiting for him there. Later, Ultimecia's castle is in that exact spot. I mean come on. When Kitase "denied" it he had to be winking. Either that or he and the writer aren't on the same page. I didn't play Dissidia but I've heard there's even more R=U stuff in the game.

Pretty cool, you're passionate enough about this that I, as a person who never played this game, stuck around to hear your thoughts on the theory. I love final fantasy 10 in the way you love this game so I can relate. I assume the squall is dead theory is also interesting but not true as well then.

I always took griever to be Rinoa's desperate attempt to bring Squall back to life as a GF after his death It's not worked out fully and that inside that giant Lion Monster is squall sonewhere

Anybody else think Rinoa & Ultimecia are stuck in a time loop? A time loop created bu time distortion. Ultimecia will always return to squalls orphanage and Rinoa will always search & seek Squall at the dance. Always trying to relive her love while unable to change its fate.

Why couldn’t they have remade THIS game instead of FF VII, SquareEnix always gives attention to FF VII, and great games like this one really suffer because of it. If they remade this game, so many new changes could be made because it involves Time, and Ultimecia being able to manipulate it to her liking. All the great theories that all of us fans spoke of and thought about, could actually become Canon and True, if SquareEnix were to ever surprise us with a Final Fantasy VIII Remake. It would be awesome if they gave players great choices to have branching paths throughout their quest if Final Fantasy VIII was ever remade. Just imagine the great possibilities of storytelling 🤔. Characters like Squall, Rinoa, Irvine, Seifer, Laguna, Edea and Quistis would all be very different if they were given certain choices throughout the Final Fantasy VIII game.

I feel like I already commented on so many of your videos about all of these Ultimecia theories, so please excuse me for bringing it up again. I just think that now it doesnt really matter to me anymore if Rinoa is actually Ultimecia or not. I feel like there is a solid thematic basis for basically any possible interpretation of FF8s events and I think that is beautiful in itself. Wheather the Antagonist serves as a tragic figure with a close connection to the main party or as an enigmatic personification of the games themes, I think it now works for me either way. The fact alone that the themes and the games events can be interpreted in multiple ways like that is really interesting to me, even if it did bother me for quite some time. Other than that I feel like its important to respect the interpretations and theories of others, especially since I have already seen so many arguments become toxic between fans about which idea is right and wrong, when it mostly just depends on our own individual look at the games themes and how we ourselves would rather have it.

Awesome! you're growing man!

My theory is ultimacia is the daughter of rinoa and squall from the distant future.. And i believe she hates her dad so much and is also obsessed of her mothers sorceress powers that she tricks her to transfer her powers to her. Rinoa and Squall didnt have time for ultimacia for squall is busy being the commander of balamb garden and Rinoa the sorceress, became the most loved ruler of her country with the help of Squall. Ultimacia grew up hating her parents that shes obsessed on destroying her dad and SeeD that the only way is time compression. Ultemacia cant destroy her dad in her time because Squall was too powerful for her and she also wants to stop the founding of Garden to stop creating future Seeds and by doing that she needs time compression so that she wouldn't worry and stil exist in the world. Ultimacia stole the ring from rinoa because she knew it was the symbol of her parents love, that ultimacia creates it into a GF so that symbol will be the one to destroy them. Ultemacia was told a story from her grandfather laguna about her Aunt Ellones ability to bring the consciousness of people back to the past and she also learned about the junction machine ellone that Dr. Odine invented which the doctor get the idea from the ability of ellone. Ultimacia has the same appearance as her mothers white angel wings but Ultimacia has black wings for she was corrupted and obsessed with power and immortality while her mother was a pure kinded sorceress with the help of squall, rinoa kept in her mind and put it her heart what the previous sorceress Edea advice her to always have your knight by her side and Ultemacia doesnt have knight and maybe this is why she became psychotic.

From 20:38 to the end is the best part of the video.

You actually made complete sense of the story for me. Thank you!

So, after recently beating the game again, I'd like to throw in an additional bit that got me to thinking more about this theory, as a sort of amendment to my other comment I left. I never noticed in the original as a kid, in the final form of Ultimicia, that the lower half of her is a body, junctioned to the top, faceless part that addresses herself as Ultimicia, possibly being her "true" form. She has to draw Apocalypse from the dangling body in order to cast it. Maybe Ultimicia isn't actually Rinoa... but instead had possessed the future Rinoa as a host body and has stayed Junctioned to her, like Adel had done to Rinoa. It got me thinking and wanting to find more about this idea but it seems more elusive than just the theories saying she is or isn't. They, suspiciously gave Rinoa Apocalypse in Dissidia. It could perhaps be that the entity of Ulitimicia has actually preyed on the intent and memories of Rinoa in the future or became one by some other tragic thing that sort of plays into a lot of the hints to the theory as well. Perhaps Ultimicia is an entity separate from Rinoa, but lives on through her in some part of the weird time shenanigans going on in this game. I know that when you go to target her lower half, it's also just named "Ultimicia" but at that point, it could just be that the two are passed junction and truly are one by that point, or at least Ultimicia has made it so. It's just an interesting hint as to what might actually be going on. A sort of host/parasite situation. In a way, maybe both answers are true.

Great video. The story in this game is so great, I believe they were scared not to make it too complicated, so they left some plot lines, but hints were already build in the game. I also kind of missed that Laguna is Squall dad. I thought Rinoa went mad over the time and transformed into Ultimecia, Angelo her dog was actually a GF and he transformed into this Cat powerful GF. She had her grief only for lost one so she renamed him to Griever. Ultimecia is the opposite to Rinoa. bad-good, red dress - blue dress, white hair - black hair, cat pet(GF) - dog pet (GF). Ultimecia had also Seifer as guardian knight (just like Rinoa had Squall) and like Rinoa she dropped him off because he was not her true love and protector. I believe time compression happened at some point and Rinoa could not find Squall, they could not keep their promise and this broke her. Probably over time her memory was lost and only the her GF Griever remained. She wanted time compression to go back to this very moment. When they defeated Ultimecia in the end , Rinoa has found Squall and he didn't die. The lost mad version of Rinoa from the future --> Ultimecia never happened.

20:18 I wonder about the attachment part of the wings basically looking like a loop. They could have chosen to design it in another way, but they chose a loop. Plus, it is a basic guideline of writing that the villain be personally connected to the protagonist, not just some random big bad that shows up out of nowhere and the protag vows to defeat without having any personal stakes in it. That's why the Rinoa-Ultimecia connection makes so much more sense. During the ball she immediately gravitates towards him. As if she recognised him despite the two never knowing each other before. Sure, she says he's the most handsome guy there, but this feels like a flimsy excuse. She wasn't in tne orphanage, she had no motivation to bring Squall out of his shell, unless compelled to do this by a bubbling memory of them being together before

I reckon ultimecia could be rinoa, without it being a tragic ending. What if ultimecia is rinoa from the future, but when you kill ultimecia, that timeline where rinoa becomes ultimecia dissapears. And rinoa then goes on to live happily. So just like rinoa helped squall fight his own inner demons, squall also fought rinoas inner demon, literally. I think thats the best of both worlds. Its still a happy ending.

I really, really liked this video. I was only 12 when I played this game. I remember thinking Rinoa was so annoying, but cool. I wanted to be cute like her and to...STICK IT TO THE MAN! This game was so much more complex than I remember. The theory you went over was so interesting to me. I'm older now, so it seems I need to play this game and see everything I never really noticed. Thank you so much for sharing your brilliance with us. ⭐

What I think the game's ending and overall story means: TL;DR - Rinoa is not Ultimecia. Rinoa needs to die in space. Once she dies, Ultimecia dies with her. After defeating Ultimecia, Squall and his friends are separated. Squall believes that he can return to them if he calls out to them. However, he realizes that this is no longer possible and succumbs to his greatest fear - being abandoned and alone. When he sees the white feather falling from the sky, he is reminded of the promise he made to Rinoa. Rinoa is his way back; without her, he is lost at the end of time. Final Fantasy VIII's plot is a time loop/paradox. Recall that Squall gives Edea the idea to build SeeD and Garden when he ended up in the past after defeating Ultimecia. His past self, "young Squall," would later grow up to take part in the events of the game (Squall defeats Edea, Edea transfers her power to Rinoa, Rinoa frees Adel in space, Squall rescues Rinoa and defeats future Ultimecia, Ultimecia transfers her power to Matron, young Squall is raised by Matron and grows up to defeat Edea, etc.). This loop will continue forever, because young Squall does not have the benefit of knowledge or hindsight as the Squall trapped at the end of the paradox. He cannot go back in time to alter his decisions because he does not belong in that timeline (Matron: "Please return. You do not belong here.") The bizarre replays of Rinoa walking in the ending: Squall begins to see replays of when he first met Rinoa at the SeeD banquet in Balamb Garden; this is where the loop begins. Once he meets her at the party, the game's events will take place; you see them replay over and over (you see shots of Rinoa at the party being in frame, then wiped away - as if she is absent). Squall comes to realize that he is forever locked in an eternal battle with Ultimecia, and in this loop, Ultimecia can never truly die. Recall that the only way to truly ensure a sorceress is forever vanquished is for the sorceress to die with her powers. Ultimecia is NOT Rinoa, but their deaths are intertwined, and are also consequently what will end up saving the rest of the world. No matter what kind of action Squall takes in the game in an effort to save Rinoa, it will always end in the same result: replaying the time loop. With the benefit of hindsight, in order to break this time loop, Squall must let Rinoa die in space alone (her life support runs out and her helmet shatters in the ending). If Squall decides not to save her after the destruction of the Moon Base, Rinoa dies with Ultimecia's powers in the vast emptiness of space, unable to transfer them to anyone, thus ending Ultimecia's existence. Squall can then return to the planet to defeat Seifer and a weakened Adel (who needed Rinoa's sorceress powers in order to become strong again), and the party will never have to experience time compression to rush into the future to defeat Ultimecia because she no longer exists - thus saving the world. Squall realizes this (if you recall him crying in the finale); in order to fully destroy Ultimecia, he must sacrifice the only person he truly loves - Rinoa. He must live the remainder of his life alone, broken, and grieving - knowing he abandoned Rinoa to die. The rest of the world will move on, celebrating the end of the succession of witches. The entire game has been about Squall saving Rinoa's life multiple times (fake President Deling, Sorceress Edea at Deling City, from falling off during the Balamb vs Galbadia Garden siege, carrying her to Esthar, from drifting away in space). It's the trope of the knight saving the "Princess" (remember Rinoa's nickname in the Timber Owls?) or in this case "sorceress." In the end, Rinoa rescues Squall. Free of Ultimecia's influence and no longer a sorceress, it's the "Princess" who ends up saving her knight.

Ultimecia trying to kill Squall and Rinoa is not a plot hole for the theory. According to the theory Ultimecia forgot Squall and that she was Rinoa because she used G.F. for a long time. But in the end I still don't believe the theory anymore. It kinda ruins the theme of FF8.

I want to remind everybody in the comments who hasn't picked up on this yet, but the Ultimecia = Rinoa theory has already been debunked by the devs. They did however show interest in it and they like it. Take it as you will, I would have been fully content with the theory being confirmed, but let's not get ahead of ourselves and start assuming things to be true when they aren't. Bottom line is however, that both characters are great to compare and as many stated, they can add a lot of depth to each other. But they are not the same person.

In the book entitled The Legend Of FF VIII, I also read that Rinoa/Ultimecia theory and I was astonished some ppl couold actually think that. It's brilliantly debunked on the book, if I remember well. Thanks a lot for this vid, I like it most rather than the one on Squall, tbh. ++

The numerous save points just kicked a whole door in on my sad mortal brain. I knew it meant something. Wow.

Brilliant video!

My only problem with the theory is why would Ultimecia try to kill Riona which is herself?

It just never made any sense how ultimecia came to aquire griever until this theory came out.. But now they say it's not the case.. Soooo, how did ultimecia end up with griever then? Someone please clarify...

I like to think that Ultimecia is attacking the SeeD because theres hardly any of Rinoa left in her She's gone Mad in grief after Squall died

I always knew Rinoa wasn’t Ultimecia, it was so funny is school when I was the only one that said she was a broken lonely sorceress from the future trying to get back what was taken from her, and the others said she was Rinoa. Glad I was finally proved right lol

Here is how this is a happy end. Ultimecia will be the last Sorceress. With her all Sorceresses disappear, because she went back in time. We don't know why this is a happy end, because we don't the future, but... maybe she needed to seal some kind horrible power away from the world... forever.

Ultimecia wanted to kill them because she wants to reach her goals and she had enough of love and wanted destroying her old self along squall

Damn. as many times as I've played this game I never picked up that Julia is Rinoa's Mother. How did you figure that one out? I guess they tell us at some point I must have missed it

Why would Ultimecia- while possessing Edea- feed her own self (Rinoa) to the Iguions? Ultimecia conjured the GF "Griever" because it would be a mindf*ck for Squall to defeat it, since it is, for a lack of a better term, his spirit animal.

You can say what you want about Ultimecia being a sudden addition to the end of the game, but it's nowhere near as bad as Necron from FF9 who just parachutes into the game and says "I'm the final boss now, RAAAAAGGGHHHHH!"

Search on youtube for; "Yoshinori Kitase retracts his statement on Rinoa/Ultimecia fan theory being debunked"

So guys, can you give me an answer, is Rinoa and Seifer do "that". I know the romance squareenix put her suvk, i just want a clarification from SE about this. I buy this game for a 50$ and you give me this suvk romance. Give me your clarification

As has been stated several times the devs debunked the R=U theory and I believe it was stated I'm the game that Ultimecia was a powerful sorceress from her time but was constantly under attack by SeeD and her actions in the past created a stable time loop where her and Squall end up at the orphanage where Squall tells edea about SeeD thus giving her the knowledge to create SeeD then Squall becomes a seed defeats Ultimecia then who knows how long in to the future a young Ultimecia is born and at some point gains her power later the SeeDs attack her she retaliated and this started a war between them ultimecia then uses the machine of ellobes powrr to transfer her mind to edea thus starting the events of the game and eventually leading to her defeat and at the end/beginning of the loop

I think Ultimecia is Rinoa's and Squall's or Seifer's Offspring. Odine bangle that she owned before even meeting Seeds, it is suppressing her sorceress power. So most likely she would not have become evil on her own, However a granddaughter in the future? Inheriting her Sorceress Power namely White Wing turned Black Wing, if only because of her being Persucated perhaps they found a way to kill Sorceress for good without them passing on their powers? And Ultimecia hunted etc just snapped went mad with rage and killed shit. it is implied that she learned of Seeds coming to kill her but perhaps it's rather than Squalls Timeline of Seeds that there were some Seeds still alive in her own timeline that she thought COULD kill her. And she decided time travel unmake the existence of seeds before me meaning no Seeds, nothing to worry makes sense no? Think about it she is mad as a hat popping out rabbits.

love it!

The funnest thing in all this is the rumor is now un-debunked!

Rinos is Ultimecia. So all the whole problem is because of HER!

I’ve always thought that the sorceress spirit was some evil timeless entity that has always existed (as far as the games plot is concerned.) to enslave humanity for some unknown reason. Sin maybe? Who knows. Anyway… The possibility to me is time compression wasn’t just the compression of all time, but all timeLINES as well (think dr strange in avengers.). Rinoamecia realizes through this that the only way to defeat the entity and save everyone is for the fated events to happen, including Squall surviving his fight with Edea and the icicles to the chest, which could have been a major turning point. It’s possible she felt guilty for it feeling like she much caused it to happen both through her impulsiveness and the sorceress spirit itself as Edea. Anyway, Rinoamecia sets the games coincidences in motion before completely succumbing to the sorceress spirit (because as we see in game, sorceress puppets still existin the body they are just possessed. Edea is a major example of this I think.). It seems also that the sorceress spirit’s motivations are to Rule the world, not freeze it in a sort of time compression. Both sorceresses we see in game besides Ultimecia existed alongside humans but to subjugate them not eradicate them. It’s a strange shift in what the true antagonist’s intentions are to me; very different brands of evil if you will. The entire plot is really ambiguous anyway. So many random, poorly explained elements, and this is from a guy who loves the golden era of final fantasy without exceptions. I actually feel that all of those games’ endings were intentionally left up for interpretation. Even 9, wtf was Necro? It ultimately adds charm, and community through theories like this, and keeps people talking about it to this day. Now whether intentional or not? Who can say.

Absolutely beautiful analysis! I'd love to add two more points to the R=U theory for you to consider. 1) Sorceress lifespan. We don't know for sure what is meant by "a sorceress cannot die as long as she has her powers", but i interpret it as sorceresses are immortal and do not age. One uncanny piece of evidence to support this is how Edea in the endgame party FMV looks identical to the Matron from 13ish years ago. Considering other works that explore immortality, specifically the tragedy of the elves in lord of the rings, I think being a sorceress would have a profound effect on Rinoa's psyche and outlook on life, especially as time passes and others age while she doesn't. I think she would grow to be less and less like the Rinoa in the game as more time passes, unless she manages to find a successor (as far as we know, she is the only sorceress remaining at the end of the game and it's an open question whether she will find a successor.) In any case, until Square canonizes either a successor for Rinoa or another sorceress from a different lineage, we have to assume Rinoa IS Ultimecia 🙃 2) Hyne. I think in discussing Rinoa becoming Ultimecia, we can't leave out the context of the origin of sorcery itself. We know from the old man in Balamb and the teacher on the white seed ship that Hyne created humans to be his tools, who revolted against him and were able to corner him. Why did he disperse his powers into human women? Why can these women pass their powers on? My personal theory is Hyne, a god, has been waiting eons for his powers to reunite in one being, presumably Ultimecia. Her very name implies she is the "ultimate", the "end of a process", i.e. the end of the succession. To your point about the inherent contradiction of a Rinoa-Ultimecia going back in time to kill herself, I believe that it's because she's not quite herself -- the combined power of Hyne has overwhelmed her mind to restart his war, triggered by a tragic loss such as Squall's death. But it could be Rinoa's hope to see her friends again left a kind of impression on Hyne, inspiring him to use time compression as his vehicle to conquer humanity -- which has the interesting side effect of combining every moment into one, allowing now to last forever. I think this theory of mine resolves a contradiction in ultimecia, how on the one hand she aggressively seeks dominance and to make humans her slaves forever, while at the same time giving her cryptic lamentations about time. A sort of split-personality duality in her between the powerful and dismissive Hyne and the loving, grieving Rinoa i think would be quite fascinating to see developed.

the only good rinoa/ultimecia video i've seen, thank you. i agree with you, a lot of the theory makes sense, but trying to kill her younger self is where it really loses traction. I also liked the Seifer is the antithesis of Squall as Ultimecia is to Rinoa opinion you threw in there, that rings true for me. From the very beginning of the game we see Squall and more or less his opposite in certain ways much like Neo/Smith, so it would make a lot of sense to also give Rinoa this dynamic by comparing her bright personality to Ultimecia's hatred for all things.

So for what it's worth. I think whether you subscribe to the theory or not, I don't really believe Rinoa being Ultimecia really matters in the end. As stated, this is a story about the acceptance of time and impermanence, vs the lamenting of said concepts and an attempt to change them for self preservation. If Ultimecia is Rinao, it could make perfect sense that she would attempt to kill off the remnants and memories that plague her as obstacles to live in a self preserved chamber to herself (IE Squall and her past self). More over the concept of time compression itself is one where shackles in pain from a past present or future no longer exist so it is just a means to an end to no longer be attached to anything that was previously painful. The real tragic irony is that in doing so, you aren't really creating self preservation but rather committing suicide from the prospect of nothing having ground to be in your life. The theory just adds context and dimension to all of this, but it is just as easily understandable for it just to be an attempt for Ultimecia to relinquish all of this based on her persecution as a tortured soul being a sorceress. No matter what idea you subscribe to, it can all wind up the same with love, bonds, living in the present succeeding where fruitless tragic lamentation fails and Squall and Rinoa can live happily ever after in a timeline that was always meant to be.

I don't understand how one of the directors who shot down this idea could dislike the concept of Rinoa and Ultimecia being the same person so much. If this were leaned on further in any potential remake, I think it'd fill some of biggest holes the story leaves (not plot wise, but as in you feel like there's something missing to the narrative) and make ff8 stand out further. It already has Rinoa being a near perfect foil to Ultimecia, but Ultimecia is a foil to Squall as well with this theory; where as Squall starts off introverted then later opens up through the force of love, Rinoa starts off as a happy extrovert who loses her sanity and becomes isolated through the loss of love to become Ultimecia. I think it's the theory I prefer over Squall being dead (which the same director liked and said they'd consider for a remake). Plus there's some more rebuttals against it (not that I dislike the theory at all), mainly Ellone and the various mentions of gf usage being linked to memory loss, even Irvine's rather dramatic introduction and hesitance to shoot Edea. The story was always meant to be fantastic and out there, I don't think the shift between the tones between disks is that big of a deal.

Rinoa is not Ultimecia. This is not even open to debate. One literally has to ignore the story and official interviews to believe that. I do not know why these comments still exist.

Was Rinoa Heartlily created as a direct response to Tifa Lockhart’s character and creation? It seems almost as if Rinoa’s haters are the same folks that don’t like Marin Kitagawa with the main criticism being realistically impossible existence and fantasy wish fulfillment

For myself, I think that the narrative and themes of the game really push towards the reading that Ultimecia is a potential version of Rinoa. As you have stated, Rinoa's pathos and existential angst over the uncertainty of the future and the loss of self, married with the fear of persecution, mirrors Ultimecia's situation where all of those fears become validated. On the Ragnarok, Rinoa said something along the lines of "I just want the present to last forever, no future to worry about." This might be a quirk of the English script, but that's too close to Ultimecia's endgame to not imply what could be Rinoa's ultimate fate. As far as Ultimecia's plot, it is possible that she has only the faintest glimmer of who she once was due to years of junctioning GFs, and only remembers enough that a woman named Rinoa and a man named Squall were instrumental in her suffering- perhaps when she dies, she remembers the joy she experienced, which is why she passes on her powers to Edea, kickstarting the cycle again, almost like Elone sending the gang through Laguna's memories to, if not able to physically change, at least grow and learn from the past. The bittersweet ambiguity of Rinoa's future serves her thematic coloring marvelously, as she lives and loves in the moment regardless of what may come. There might be a fate, maybe even a cruel one. After all, time claims us all eventually. If we are locked into what is going to happen to us, we can at least choose how we get there, through our worldview and bonds. Rinoa's arc is one of growth, change, and acceptance, and the version of her that becomes Ultimecia is one that rejects those ideals. Will our Rinoa become Ultimecia? Maybe. Does that make it hopeless? As the cast learned, absolutely not. (If you're wondering "if Rinoa is Ultimecia and she winds up not becoming her, how does the plot happen with no Ultimecia?", time compression allows all futures to collide at once, therefore, Squall and company could have returned to a future where Rinoa does/doesn't become Ultimecia)

Hey I wanted to ask if you plan on doing something similar to this for 13 and 15? I was checking your channel out notice you there was lot less content for 15 and I think none for 13. Either way it's fine, I really enjoy the channel especially ff12 stuff...

legendary *S E E D*

Strange speculation here but could ultimcia be squall and rinoa's daughter?

Squall never died, for fucks sake the creator stated that he never died a thousand times to the point that it has become annoying... Rinoa the strong and independent women who needs no one.... until she fucks up her delusions and must carried ...

I believe in all Theories there are so many hinds and connections between rinoa and ultimecia .... the problem is ultimecias Story was undeveloped the game doesnt have much content about her I hope they change it in the future remake I dont care that square denied All These theories fact is they both look similar both have connection with griever and also when the time compression Comes u See rinoas face being futured to ultimecia so wtf square soft and thats Not all there are many many other hinds

Is rinoa Ultimecia? I say "might as well be" in the way she compressed all and time and space and emotion and individual unto herself including Rinoa specially for being a sorceress. If she's not what Rinoa eventually turns into it's what Rinoa is definetly eventually absorbed into.

Ultimecia has to be Rinoa - far too many coincidences as mentioned in the video and comments (“opposite” (light and dark) characterisation, Griever, sorceress and knight, timelines as a concept etc). But one thing people don’t seem to explore further is that Ultimecia - or future Rinoa - deliberately put this plan into motion and intended to die in order for her and Squall to “live happily ever after” in their timeline. So ultimately Ultimecia isn’t a villain at all, but a tragic hero.

best waifu and this theory is 100% canon. its the only way everything makes sense

Alternate timelines dont seem like too much a stretch for the FF series, especially since FF7 Remake

A other good vidoe dude keep it up you rock

Thanks alot for sharing this theory and your well put thoughts! (you do have another sub) I love to read these fans interpretations. You have stated in your video that at your Zell vid a german commentator left a hint (localisation) I have to look this up. I really wonder why in the german version they call Ultimecia Artemisia. For my, ultimate = the very final, makes more sense. But on the other hand there might be a hint in sorceress hierarchy? (I haven’t looked up who Artemesia is) If someone has any info on this, I would be delighted to hear. I have read most of the comments here. Nice to see how friendly and deep fact‘ial everyone here discusses! I just learned through you guys that there is a localisation error from jp to engl when Ultimecia summons Griever. That, in fact, Griever is Squalls „spirit animal“ and not actually her G.F. And Ultimecias strange accent at the beginning of the end battle… where she pronounces K instead of C. I am not fond of my mothertongue in games (which is german) but sometimes things getting clearer when one compares different languages. This is why I was triggered about your Zell comment above. So, now I am going to repeat the final fight in german the see how they translated the accent 🙂 FF8 ending theme is the only motif which gets me totally emotional, all over the years. Saw Arnie Roth conducting a FF concert in Berlin, when they played this theme, I was reduced to tears. FFVIII is underrated in terms of story, especially the ending sequence is touching.

I think the main reason people want the whole 'Rinoa = Ultimecia, Squall = Griever' is because it add a layer to the story that without is just an emo melodrama with some badly writen time travel. Gameplay wise, there is a reason the first thing player search for are patches, difficulty mods and low level run are prevalent. It sell well only because of FF7 sucess and was so bad that it mitigate the sell of FF9 after. It was the worst of the 3d main line era.

I think you unknowingly explained why they confirmed this theory being wrong in the end. Its precisely because they didnt want the positive message of the game tainted. They couldnt have rinoa turn from good to evil so they cut the idea before release. Thus we feel the lack of ultimecias backstory even though all ff final bosses usually have very long ones. That being said i feel like them denying the theorie makes it so much more likely to have been a thing at one point during development.

if squall and rinoa gets married, it must be awkward for laguna, his partner, julia and her husband, during family gathering.. or will raine and julia's husband just laugh it out?

There's one evidence that Rinoa Is Ultimecia. Remember when she ask Zell If he could replicate the necklace that Squall was wearing and Ultimecia GF happens to be Griever.

I would choose Rinoa over Yuna any day.

If we let Rinoa died during adel held her in act 4, the game would be "Game over", there's no ultimecia in the future if rinoa got killed in the present.

The makers of the game confirmed Ultimecia is not Rinoa. Theory debunked

Great video. I was always a fan of this theory even though I don't think there's enough to say it's definitely what they were going for. I always find it annoying when people say Square refuted it themselves when it was just one person who said it wasn't true. Nothing to say he just didn't want it written in stone that it was true or nothing to say, like you said, that another writer was dropping hints for it independently. Also, I wouldn't like to take sources from outside the game, but Ultimecia wielding Squall's Gunblade and Rinoa's Blaster Edge in Dissidia was almost like a wry confirmation of the theory, or at least a nod to it as opposed to flatly denying it like some claim. One thing you didn't mention is that the only present-day Sorceresses that we know of are Edea and Adel. Rinoa ends up inheriting both of their powers, which could explain how a super-sorceress like Ultimecia could come to be. Maybe all the sorceress power in the world ended up in Rinoa. I think the wing symbolism is very significant. It's hard to look past Rinoa and Ultimecia sharing it, especially when it's such a core part of Rinoa's character. It's on her clothes, it's in her Limit Break and it's in her final weapon. The game even starts with feather imagery. For Ultimecia to share that motif seems like something that wouldn't be done randomly or carelessly. I don't think they contrast in the same way that Seifer and Squall do. I haven't looked at your other videos (yet) but my theory for Squall and Seifer's rivalry is that Seifer idolises Laguna and so is naturally (and unconsciously) antagonistic towards Squall who is Laguna's true heir so to speak. I don't think there is any explanation for why Rinoa and Ultimecia would be similarly rival characters, but if they were the same person it could make sense. There's also the scene in the final cutscene where Squall is breaking down and images of Rinoa and Ultimecia are flickering between each other, perhaps indicating that Squall is realising the truth. As for Ultimecia's motive being strange, another commenter has already mentioned the GF-induced amnesia. I think it would be very consistent if Rinoa's fear of losing Squall in the end is what drives her interest in manipulating time and as she loses her memory, all that's left is a drive to stop time, i.e. time compression. It's not so much her own death that she is lamenting but rather Squall's perhaps. The location of the Castle has been mentioned already too, in the flower field where they promised to wait for each other. Again there's some who say it's not actually at the field but given that that's our point of entry to the Castle, I'm happy that the association definitely exists. There's also the extravagant decoration of the castle which goes along with Rinoa's tastes. Is there any theory around the "In the Garden sleeps a Messenger" title for the painting puzzle? I always found that fascinating. The Garden is obvious but then who is the Messenger and why does Ultimecia have that painting? There's also the party's GF who end up in the Castle minibosses as Draws, the theory being that Rinoa ended up inheriting all of your GF, which we know can easily be passed from character to character. This is slightly contradictory though as they only end up in the bosses if you didn't acquire them in the first place. But there is still the link between Bahamut and Tiamat, who is apparently Bahamut after being corrupted by Ultimecia. How did he end up in the Castle? We know that Squall had some reverence for Bahamut because he recognises him and refers to him as "the great GF". So does Rinoa decide to take your greatest GF and make him a Castle guardian? One other weakness in the theory though is that there is no real analogue for Angelo with Ultimecia. Angelo is a core part of Rinoa's early character so you would have to think that there would be some replacement for him if she was Ultimecia. I used to think it was Griever because she summons him in battle similar to how Rinoa summons Angelo. But apparently he is only conjured up at the moment we fight her. Maybe Angelo is something else that she loses to drive her to madness? Such a great game to theorise on, shame it's so heavily underrated, though I'll grant that the gameplay mechanics are not great. Looking forward to watching your other vids!

4:28 thats a huge truck, lol

Half of the video is wasted on Rinoa being Ultimecia and what that means if it’s true. Rinoa is Rinoa. Just because some people theorized about it over the years doesn’t mean you have to entertain it, or at least entertain it for so long. I was kind of hoping to learn something I didn’t notice before about Rinoa, so it’s just a bit of a letdown. Maybe sometime in the future you’ll get bored enough to have another go at it and flesh out the discussion of Rinoa. Thanks anyway, it’s a good video in its own right, just not what I expected.

I'll still believe the theory even if Square says otherwise.

Grevier was all that últimicia had left from Squall, which is why she joins with it, and in the end it becomes her heart as her body merges with it. Rinoa is ultimica and she is trying to fight destiny by freezing time past present future... So she can be with Squall... Hense why they l lost their memories because they were pulled through time compression all of the orphange cree except irvin because he a dumb cowbow who doesn’t fit the story... Japan just like putting a randow cow boy into the story... Texas style