That is so cool, I love coming across stuff like that but never seem to find newspapers that old, make sure you keep it safe

Thanks :)

Agreed

At the time I think it had more to do with the status of the family tbh.

I thought the same! Agreed.

120 years ago did ins companies do their own investigations as well as work with police? With ins policy on one victim,and several other victims in the same place,both could have been suspicious. Then there are the doctors at the nut hut,oops,I mean institution,they would also want to know what was poisoning their bread and butter,oops,I mean their patients.

Crystal M same. I’m so sad :(

Same 💔

Isn't virtue signalling FUN!? And the best part is you don't have to actually DO anything to make things better! it's like .... like .... praying!

@@t4705mb6 I'm not a virtue signaler, believe me. The case actually just made me sad.

@@t4705mb6 it's ok to feel things, Keyboard Warrior-Child. In fact, many contend it's a big part of what we loosely describe as 'humanity'. If this story doesn't provoke feels then you might be, at best, a Vulcan.

The fact that people said there was a history of insanity in the family, I'd say that Caroline was unwell. However, I sometimes wonder about this as well given the lack of education on mental illness during the period. Mary Ann had a choice to make and the decision was to murder her sister. It's disgusting that she only viewed her mentally ill sister as a way to get money... and for what? To get enough money for a marriage certificate?

And she was nice enough to share it too :(

I guess since I’m an RN, I just keep thinking about how horrible her death was. And this was the sister she was so close to and missed so much?

Back in the Victorian era, that is how they did things, I guess? Mary Ann didn't have to pay her employers money for rent because she was working for them, I take it... which means that she could save up her wages. I guess, she'd have to pay for other living expenses and she wouldn't have made much. Poor girl should have found a better employer that would have paid her higher wages instead of having to murder her mentally ill sister whose only crime at that point was merely existing. Also, given the time this happened. It's not uncommon for loving family members to turn their backs on their loved ones who weren't normal. The Victorians were very set on what made the perfect member of society- and unfortunately people like Caroline who suffered through mental illnesses didn't fit that mould.

Also this was fairly premeditated, I don't know why there was so much effort spent trying to save this woman. Her actions put not only her sister but several other additional innocents at risk, what is there to save?

@@oncebluemoon Exactly!

PinkOld Maybe so, unbelievably cruel to plan and poison her own sister, but she slept on the kitchen floor of her employer’s house!!! Good Lord, how selfish and greedy were the people who she worked for! I realise it was VERY common for the time, but a little kindness and compassion from them would have gone a very long way and saved several people! How incredibly desperate must she have got?

jennifer McDonald In England there was an unabashed caste system and people born into money felt they were worth more as human beings than poor people. This was an idea widely accepted.

@Barbara Kuru Exactly

@Toni Sumblin i agree,im living from day to day,im thankful i was able to bring my children into adulthood but now were afraid because everything is so expensive and its not easy at all,thank you ,i love your comment

My great-granny was born is 1903, saw both WWs and lived through the aftermath, etc. She was so frugal, she didnt turn on the lights, only few well placed table lamps were on after dark. When she broke her hip after one fumble in the dark, we kinda made her flip on some more lights. She really needed to wear a hearing aid later in life, but she rather “saved the batteries”, so we YELLED most of the time. She used coffee grounds twice, teabags three times. Every sliver of wrapping paper was saved and re-used, this lead to funny confusion in every Christmas, since there were multiple names written on the packages.. I got to draw only on butcher paper, not on “the good paper”. I might add that the time I got around in the seventies, she wasnt poor anymore and there really was no future war in the horizon or other reason to skimp on everything, but she was a creature of habit. She lived to be 95 years old, so I got to ‘have’ her for over twenty years, but I wish she could still be here. She was the smartest and kindest lady Ive known, only her coffee was not fit for human consumption :) And I have her hand mirror (plus sewing scissors), its well over 50 years by now. My mom broke the one she had before when she was a little girl. Its my treasure.

@Hippie Sunshine I will start with the words of the original post... "It is very difficult for us TODAY to understand the depths of poverty. " I'm not sure what part of that doesn't imply that it no longer exists in the same way it did in the past. While I agree that poverty of the past may be difficult to understand for some people, for others, poverty is very much reality. The most glaring example to me was that the person she mentions had a house to live in, that's a lot more then many people today have. I don't think Toni jumped to any conclusion.

I am Poor eventhough i have apprenticeship... i cant afford enough food. Stfu

​@@janemiettinen5176 I'm barely 30 & my grandma was also born around 1903 too(but in India) bc my mom is the youngest of 9 sibs. Grandma saw both world wars or all the wars of the 20t century and even lived under colonization. but nothing ever happened where she lived. Idk if any of her family went to any of the world wars but her brothers died of a plague- I think it was the Third Pandemic, the designation of a major bubonic plague pandemic. I only got to had my grandparents for 5 years but she seemed to b frugal too and passed it on to my uncles, aunts, and even my female cousins. I want to ask my oldest aunts(both born around 1915-1930) for pictures & other items but no one else in the whole extended family even cares. And I forgot to ask her when I went to visit her during my dad's funeral

We today dont know how lucky we have it. 😎

Standard practice back then . Wealthier people would have given a tiny bedroom - usually shared with another maid.

@Jennifer.. and they liked her!! How did they treat their employees they felt didn't live up to their expectations?

I make all my maids sleep on the kitchen floor too.

Some things never change. Poor people just get loans now. Slave to the bank.

It's Pakistan, Saudi, and most of the Arab countries right now, it still goes on

Where would she have slept if they HADDN'T liked her? My sister has at least 3 bed room in her home in West Virginia. She makes her son sleep in her basement. Of course he's only had a job pumping gas for two weeks in his entire life and he's almost 60 years old. He's not retarded just lazy. She keeps him around to do stuff she thinks is beneath her like cutting grass, shoveling snow, cleaning and filling the fireplace, taking the garbage out. When things don't go her way she takes it out on her son. Now my sister's daughter can do no wrong. 'She's' had private school from day one and colleges up the kazoo while she ignored her son who didn't even finish high school. He can tell you in detail anything and everything about baseball sats or about who did what in the Civil War and about all the battles. He was a very talented artist but never bothered or was encouraged to improve on that talent. I took care of my mom & stepdad for 17 yrs and they died 4 months apart from each other in 2010. In short the step kids & my sister and family cut me out of the 'Wills', step sis even stole my mother's ashes. Mom never got a funeral because my blood sister canceled her funeral, I was left out in the streets homeless. I've been in a dump Hud building for 7 years, unfortunately for 'sis' during metal detecting I found some very valuable coins that soon will go to auction. There's over 100 Morgan Silver Dollars and alot more coins. Hopefully they'll sell well. If they do I'll get a nice strong decent sized home (not anything like a mansion) in the mountains by a nice lake with a boat house and doc. where me and 2 or 3 dogs , and the same in cats, & a bunch of chickens/& males/accupple of cows, goats and horses that would have a nice sturdy safe barn could live. I'd play a joke on the clowns who left me homeless, I'd RENT a very fancy mansion for a very short time and hire some photo taking folks and we'd use the mansion like a studio. Have changes of clothes, wigs, to make it look like I've lived there for years, ha, ha,ha. Not give outthe address. Then let them drool.😆😅😄😃😂😁😀 Meanwhile I'd be in a rugged, very sturdy home in the mountains and I'd work hard to take care of my beloved animals and very wisely invest some money and get some inventions off the ground 😁. My sister is a drinker and a hater/thief, I'll let God short her kind out but she'd best NEVER come on my property....EVER after what she's done to me all my life with the hitting ect, she's 7 yrs older than me. I spent 14 yrs in the Army, now have 2 3rd degree black belts. Was a Drill Sargeant for seven years, I hit what I aim at, enough said.😎

@@azeema74 Disgusting, abysmal, uncaring....these words don't even begin to describe such inhumanity.

@@ghostcityshelton9378 Your family is severely toxic. Your sister is likely a pathological narcissist. I know the word is over used these days but it is a freaking epidemic. Your sister's son is NOT lazy. He is damaged. Very damaged by his mother and likely has complex PTSD. He probably feels helpless and hopeless. He probably has a tough time focusing and concentrating and figuring out 'where to start.' It's too bad he doesn't write about what he is knowledgeable about. He could write a blog with such knowledge. Have a youtube channel talking about what he knows. Two channels in fact: one for the civil war knowledge and one for the baseball knowledge. Anyway, he sounds like your sister's scapegoat and her daughter the golden child. What you write in your comment reeks of that awful and very damaging and abusive dynamic. If you don't know about narcissism and the toxic dynamic that creates, definitely look into it. And remember those terms: Scapegoat (SG) and Golden Child (GC).

GhostCity Shelton Too much family info for a KZfaq comment.

I wonder if Mary thought she was doing a good thing for her sister. Mental asylums were unspeakably horrible in those days. Just a thought.

@@vickidickinson2888 Keep in mind _HOW_ she killed her. That's a brutal way to go, with plenty of needless suffering.

Vicki Dickinson I doubt she murdered with good intentions.

Coommunists are evil.

I was surprised given the historical period there was sympathy for the culprit. Perhaps if she were a man, she would not have received any.

Both sisters were victims. One was declared insane, the other was driven insane by her heartless, evil employers.

@@barrymichlowitz1071 For my study I had to look at statistics of court history in London and interestingly women often came off better than their male counterparts for the same crimes, and even when they got the death sentence it was usually not carried out. Instead they'd be deported to Australia or another penal colony. Men often were indeed executed, so there seems to be more sympathy for female criminals throughout this period and perhaps until now.

@@lulurumbel8093 What did her employers do?

*She* was picking on the vulnerable? Don't you know anything about mental asylums back then? They tortured the patients, places like that were cruel! I don't know about you but I'd rather die than be tortured in a mental asylum

A F thanks grammar Nazi now go get an actual life - jackass

I must also admit that I have too.

Lets make that a trifecta✋

Sometimes it’s the only way to have an intelligent conversation. 😉

Mary Reed, True! I was only saying that to myself yesterday 😁

Naw, talking to ourselves won't make us mad....It's when we start answering ourselves that's when we should be alarmed.

I was thinking the same thing about those insane asylums. I was also thinking that the police and the pathologist were more inept than some in the 20th and 21st centuries. Poison is often over looked because they don’t often look for it.

Thanks :)

​@Rebecca Farleyhello Rebecca . . . . . .being a big fan of Chesterton and Belloc as I am, I fully understand your observation and it's worth mentioning yours truly is apolitical. That said, there is truth in GBS's "contention" (having been raised in poverty) and it's the love of money and thence hegemony of such, by an extreme few one can argue that "creates" the poverty, which helps drive (if not fuel) so much crime. Take for example say the epitome of the rich and privileged, the Royal family down the centuries and all their offshoots and family branches across Europe and so on, thereby numbering members in the thousands and thousands - how many have ever been convicted of say shoplifting or indeed any crime at all? Not one? (Think also say Bullingdon club mindsets). The argument probably being they don't need to steal, though of course some of them have in far more profound ways. Will Prince Andrew be convicted? There would be no chance of that in England of course, however, given the internet and say an American "push", maybe, just maybe something will come of it in terms of justice, otherwise . . . . . . . . It's such systemic unfairness, indeed obscene abuse, a tottering imbalance that creates a "vacuum" into which spills so much. Ciao.

So true

Allan Lindsay Thanks for constant reminders and a beating heart

life was extremely hard for the poor in those days, and life in asylum was horrible. i think she was prob schizophrenic

proudbluestaterful true...I live in a historical red light district in Memphis, Tennessee (USA) and I often think of the options for women back in day...the fact I am great full for the modern choices I have had. But I would NEVER know what it was like growing up dirt poor and watching mental illness take away my loved ones. But you have to give credit to the police and asylum caregivers to care about her. Can’t imagine being in one of those places either...it’s just a sad story.

Oh I see what you did there.

🤣 Cute! 🤗

Takes the biscuit more like! !

Go home!! Nah that's cute lol

:)))

Yeah, right

That’s my great great aunt😐

thats only for people with bad intentions its actually a good safety net if you are poor you dont wanna die and leave your family nothing

Truth! Remember those two old bags that were taking in homeless men. They were shining them up to look like their spouses if i remember correct. They backed their car over one poor and forward and back etc UGH!!!

Add in greed. Poverty and life insurance is not the killer. Greed is. Many poor people have life insurance just to cover their own burial expenses or leave something for their beloved children.

The bread and butter of White People.

@@funbranditoo4763 I have it was on deadly women

True

Annie Hall Slave owners here in America did the same thing with their cooks and maids.

The "real" Dowton Abbey.

@@NYC1927 the difference here is that she is not a slave, but hired help

I'm a newbie, will be joining you. :-)

@@ibdalia69 awesome!☕☕☕

True

I probably wouldn’t have changed my mind either (the judges decision). People that are “truly” insane generally wouldn’t have been so cunning. Life insurance. Then write a letter lying about her parents death and implicating that another relative sent it. Try to poison twice. Nope, that shows cunning of a sane person.

Thanks :)

It seems insane to me also that the cost of the certificate should be so high, and that her employers should be so cheap!

Agreed

@@-Reagan Ummm I'm sure the poster probably realizes all this but was making a light hearted joke.... which by the way was fucking BRILLIANT!!!!! 😆

No not insanity. You would have another opinion if today a sister killed another to get money. All murder is done by people unstable but most don't pass the bar of mental illness. You proposition would mean a mother who kills her children to get a boyfriend to marry her is insane. No not insane. We might not understand it but some people have little regard for children, parents, siblings and spouses.

boy you got that right!

same, i was listening to warhammer lore. then boom

Ur cute

thanks. but if i were gay you would not be my type.

Yes! I love these stories!

Joseph C. 😂😂😂😂😂

Thanks :)

Thankyou, I have used different ones but for a while stuck with this one - Thanks :)

Thanks :)

Thanks :)

Thanks :)

You're welcome, you are a great storyteller my friend, an ancient profession that was revered in the past, a true lost art... Until Brief Case brought it back to life. Thank you for bringing us into your world where we see into the past... Ash...

Mage Craft 😊🙌💜👊💜🙌💪

Thanks :)

40 wow. that is probably my biggest ever audience TY so much :)

You deserve it Brief case. Your the man.

Right!?! And Boston cream anything. Yikes.

@@wordivore Just remember this: cyanide can smells like almonds... While arsenic smells like licorice... 😳😳😳

Shit...i just ate yellow cream filled cake...but it was delish 😜

@@abelis644 I remember that cyanide was said to smell like almond. But arsenic smelling like licorice is a new discovery for me. Thanks 🖒

Abelis Wait? Is this true 😳?

Thanks :)

It's 7 : 41 am here in Baltimore, Maryland USA., just finished watching Brief Case and eating breakfast. Have a wonderful day ! .

12.55pm, lunch time, in Scotland!

In my bedroom in California, USA

5.10 AM

8:10 here in Ontario, Canada and just finished brekkie! Lovely day/evening to you all.

Thanks for listening :)

Thanks :)

Yes, how times have changed, now people get away with multiple murder and still get released, life was at least valued in those days, and the punisment was real.

@@derekstocker6661 , Yes!!!

They are many people even today falsely imprisoned for crimes they didn't commit. By your logic we should kill everyone who is accused of committing a crime. Forget trial, appeal and justice. Smh

@@chaoticmiss29 In ironclad cases such as this, you would prefer that the guilty party go free? We're talking about someone who is 100% guilty of coolly and calmly murdering someone getting executed, not your gigantic straw man of executing everyone who gets *accused* of having committed a crime.

That's a stupid "opinion." Smh...

Thanks :)

Thanks :)

@Damarys Dingui what time zone are you in?

@Damarys Dingui late morning huh? O:-

@Damarys Dingui I go to work at 7:30 AM eastern time. Lol.

@@cadillacdeville5828 films

Thanks :)

Thanks :)

Sthembile Msabala nami, enjoying the way he narrates the case. I’m in Saudi Arabia

Have you tried ObsoleteOddity, he also narrates eloquently,the language is rich. Try and let me know.

I actually have, amazing work by him

Thanks :)

Thanks :)