They loosely followed the established comics with the MCU, they could have loosely adapted the Expanded Universe , but instead ignored it and now look where we are

Because the Marvel movies are all basically the same movie.

You need a proper figure head like Fiege for that to work. They had Kathleen Kennedy.

@@lko5545 he's getting into Star Wars now but damage is already done. Have you noticed how they are suddenly focusing on prequels or the past. Completely ignoring projects expanding upon Rey's trilogy? Even Kenobi & Anakin are back.

Disney is a Toxic Entity

its kind of hilarious that Rose saves the space horses and leaves the slave children. She's like a reverse Moses

Right? It’s like as she’s explaining how bad war is, and how the rich profit off the suffering of poor people, I was shocked Finn didn’t just tell her “I know, I literally grew up in a military”

Fin be like "well i know i was a child slave soldier"

@@user-vy7xo8kg8d It should have been Finn's story imo

It was peak comedy and a piece of art imitating life. Many examples in the west of liberal arts college students lecturing veterans and other people twice their age on things they don't know about.

They were only used to attract older Star Wars fans that grew up with the original trilogy but their scenes and appareances were more cameos than be a solid role .

It's the Girl Power giving her strength. LOL

No. 1 mistake Existing

Or how Palpetine said all Sith live within him even though sith cant become force ghosts and one with the force.

@@shawnkurtz4424 or the fact palpatine still being alive ruins Annakins entire story arc, rise fall and redemption. Destroying the sith and bringing balance to the force? Na! Annakin failed as Palpatine survived,,,,,,somehow!! Just so Rey could kill him because,,,,,, MA-REY-SUUEEEEEE!!!

@@adamduffield7782 True. So guess the prophecy was BS lol Anakin didn’t bring balance to shit

Thank You! Someone finally said it.

That's one of my numerous issues with these films. It basically just recycled more or less the same plot from the OT. Rebels vs Empire, Jedi remain extinct and Palpatine is behind it all. It's like as if nothing after Anakin Skywalker's sacrifice changed for the better.

Bingo!

@@death-king1834 I know. At the end of Episode VI, the villains were defeated, the heroes had won, and the Jedi were coming back. Yet, at the start of Episode VII, the villains were back in control, the heroes once more reduced to an underdog resistance, and the Jedi were extinct again. It's as if the efforts and sacrifices made by the OT heroes were all for nothing.

@@FuryanJedi13 This is exactly why I refuse to acknowledge these movies as being part of the same Saga or being the ''official'' continuation of the story. It didn't progress or advance anything. It just took everything back to square one. Honestly speaking the Expanded Universe by comparison did a much better job at advancing the progression of both the universe and story post VI minus a few things here and there.

You’ll always be maybe Darth Plagueis or Mace Windu in our hearts.

sorry snoke, your just a Palpatine puppet nothing more. utterly disappointing

There's a picture of Rian Johnson holding a mug that says "f*** your Snoke theory" while flipping off the camera. He literally insulted the audience for getting invested in JJ's story. Sounds jealous, psychotic, and emotionally immature to me.

@@josephb.4640 I expect a Star Wars film to be enjoyable and to Ryan Johnson’s credit he subverted my expectations.

@@LoopHoleLeeRoy snokes true origins has been revlead months ago by a star wars channel on youtube snoke is a clone of sidious he has some of sidious powers but not all of them he is a clone of sidious and snoke orginially was suposse to be darth lageuis in the last jedi but when it got leaked rian johnson changed it back to snoke but the true origin right now is that snoke is a clone of darth sidious he has some of sidious powers but not all of them just some

"Subverting expectations" just means unpredictable. You could've ended the trilogy with Jar Jar Binks wanking off on Han Solo's grave... doesn't make it good or compelling.

He knew damn well what he was doing. He even admitted that they were setting out to destroy Star Wars.

@@gregoryl.levitre9759 And The Last Jedi 2.0 is happening currently with Kenobi.

@@toddpacker1015 It is to be expected. Know your enemy.

That shit line destroy the past which they did

The biggest mistake was creating the character of Rey to begin with.

I mean they could have had it be that the first order had been corrupting the new republic’s government for decades so that after the attack in the first movie, the New Republic becomes fractured leaving the good guys having to rely on Allie’s they can’t trust as some switch sides and others try to make their own independent fiefdoms.

@@youthfulcurmudgeon3627 bingo. sequels should have been from the perspective of Finn & Ben from the start being trained by Luke

I always felt that, for the first movie at least, they should have turned this entire conflict around: Turn the First Order into a ragtag band of fanatical Terrorists (ISIS in Space, if you will, complete with a fundamentalist angle and suicide attacks) operating from a Hidden Fortress, fighting like cornered animals. In other words, let the Villains be the Underdogs for a change.

To be honest, I really only watch the original Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back with any regularity. While there are some great "scenes" in RotJ that's where I feel the commercial success of the first two films influenced the franchise and threw it off the rails from what was originally intended.

I've even watched the prequels several times. I went to see The Force Awakens in the theatres and kinda enjoyed it, but the next movie turned me off completely (I can't even remember the name of the movie if that says anything). I refused to pay money and be disappointed again, so I pirated the last movie.

Not watching Rise of Reywalker (or Solo, for that matter!) even ONCE is even worse..

in the comments you can see the different types of star wars fans

@@blueshattrick Snap. I have zero interest in watching either of those movies. The Last Jedi killed Star Wars for me. I have no interest in watching its corpse being desecrated further.

This has been my exact thought. Episode 9 reframes the entire series so that it is all about Palpatine and his effort at galactic domination, and the Skywalkers were just an insignificant speed bump towards that goal; Anakin was just a tool used by Palpatine, and Luke was his annoying son.

LOL! =)

Just another reason I absolutely detest these horrible movies and refuse to acknowledge them as being part of the same continuity. They have as much relevance to the story of the first six films as all the equally awful follow-ups for the original Highlander film. The Expanded Universe for all their ups and downs honestly told much more interesting stories post-Jedi then what the mouse gave us.

people like the sequel because it expend the universe of star wars.. no franchise have done it since...

Palpatine wasn’t a pussy. That’s a good thing

That is Rian in a nutshell. We never even got onto how Rian would not allow criticism of TLJ and called fans who voiced such opinions “manchilds”.

Sure, the expectation is there. But Rian actually didn't have to accommodate the previous story. Remember: He was able to do whatever the fuck he wanted after JJ was done. He even asked JJ to change the ending of EP7 to accommodate his story in 8.

I can see your point there.

He didn't have that obligation to accommodate the story from TFA as Disney and KK never forced that issue with 8 and 9. In fact JJ had written outlines for the next two movies, but Johnson threw it out in favor of doing what he did with TLJ (a bad knockoff of Empire with a little RotJ thrown in). To be honest, Johnson was the wrong person to count on to write and direct a chapter in the ongoing story of the Skywalker family. He admits himself he has no interest in world building, and these movies, if nothing else, rely heavily on world building for their success.

I'd say that Abrams wrote Johnson into a corner due to how incredibly shallow the worldbuilding was in TFA. Remember, it was Abrams who set up questions of: 1) Why did Luke exile himself in the first place and not return when the galaxy and his friends were in trouble? 2) Who is Snoke? 3) Why is Rey so special? Who are her parents? 4) Why is Finn the only Stormtrooper to defect? 5) Where did the First Order come from? Why is the Resistance separate from the New Republic? 6) How did Ben Solo fall to the dark side? 7) ...Is Poe even a character? Johnson somehow had to provide answers to these 'mystery boxes'

@@MMARVEL2003 Nevertheless, for whatever reason, she has an unbroken track record of success against a villain whose first appearance showed him stopped laser beams mid-flight. He was never that intimidating past that first scene. Luke spent his first two films getting smacked around most of the time and needing help from Ben Kenobi and Han repeatedly. He even got some training, and yet Vader still maimed him on their first encounter. Vader felt like a real threat.

Even Fin held his own against Ren. Granted Ren was injured but....come on man!!!

@@lvldarwin Matt Easton did a video series with IGN a while back where he analyzed the Lightsaber combat in all three trilogies. When he was reviewing the Finn v Ren duel he noted that Ren seemed to be toying with Finn, and the moment he actually pressed Ren he was disarmed and slashed across his back. I highly recommend checking those videos out for yourself, they're good.

@@MMARVEL2003 Because the writers said so due to backlash. It's not natural at all.

@Football Oklahoma Yeah, they toned the gore down hard. But with regard to Finn's injury, Kylo Ren dragged it up his back slowly in a shallow path that would leave a nasty wound rather than cleaving him through, presumably to show how the audience how cruel he is while also getting to keep Finn for the next movie. And he spent about a week in a coma while getting some combination of surgery and Bacta treatments, not sure how the jacket is still pristine though XD

There are.

How dare you say Rey made a mistake!

@@franchisefanatic4142 such as?

There were consequences. Financial ones😋

Gets captured - rescues herself. Fights a fully trained Kylo Ren - wins without a scratch. Luke doesn't train her - already has everything she needs. Rushes off to redeem Ben - Snoke dies and she escapes. Blows up a ship accidently - Chewy wasn't on it. Goes to an island to hide after thinking she killed Chewy - Luke gives her a new ship. Dies defeating the Emperor - brought back to life. It never stops.

who's lei?

Why was Luke's hand obviously metal and skeletal looking. In Empire Strikes Back, his new hand looked like a real hand. I did not like Luke or Leia in The Last Jedi. Neither one of them was acting like themselves.

Leia is a "strong woman" She lends credibility to the resistance just by being there. And if they killed her off, the feminists would have burned this movie to the ground. If she died, who would have told all the men what to do all the time? Narratively, it should be Poe, hero of the resistance. But he's a dude and after getting yelled at and demoted for wasting lives with reckless behavior, Leia and Holda waste lives with their stupid plan. But because they are "strong women", they can't possibly be wrong.

that would be the worst thing possible

Unless you intentionally want to destroy a franchise

That wasn't Leia that was general organa they r different like luke Skywalker and Jake Skywalker

@@ericpeterson8732 Yeah, sure "the feminists"... And the incel has spoken. Dude try improved personal hygiene and not being an obnoxious asshole. It's you, mate. It's not them, it is you!

@@JNeedleVids it was a robot arm and right after he stops and says he will never turn to the dark side but ok.

@@JNeedleVids did we not watch the same ending in ROTJ or did you never finish the movie lol

@@JNeedleVids u need to go rewatch the film and learn what context is

And they could've used that to properly explain his downfall. But instead Luke probes the mind of Kylo and decides to kill him for a single moment.

What.. Luke interrupted his force training because he didn't believe in his friends lmao.

Same here and I even point out in my head and sometimes to others because of the sheer bullshit moments in them even with SW logic

As someone in your age group I couldn’t agree more, from my experience most kids who’s first experience with Star Wars was the sequels ended up assuming they hate Star Wars, the Star Wars Saga will always be 6 movies no matter what Disney says

Thank you for restoring my faith in humanity in this regard.

You are a smart kid.

@@alcarbo8613 it’s funny you say this. I’m 27 and when I was a kid the prequels were coming out. Most fans rejected that trilogy and said only the original 3 are real Star Wars movies lol. Tho I definitely agree that the most recent trilogy are clearly pretty awful. There are at least some things I like about the prequels, especially episode 3. With these new ones I’m not sure if they’ll eventually be accepted or not.

*FART*

oh hi mark

And also what her own sister did at the start of the film. That scene really made no sense at all.

Actually in epsd 7 I feel finn was meant with Rey

@@Quincy299 do you mean Rey and Finn were supposed to be together? I got a bit of that vibe in Ep7, though part of me says it was more one sided than reciprocal.

Except Finn would've died pointlessly accomplishing exactly nothing. The vehicle Fin was using was literally falling apart around him and everybody was screaming at him to stop. Rose saved Finn from killing himself for nothing.

@@immortalfrieza you’re trying to use this logic as if she didn’t crash into him RIGHT in front of the enemy line anyways. They would have both been fucking killed. The movie just glosses over this fact and apparently they walked hundreds of yards back towards their allies while injured without dying in clear view of an entire enemy fleet.

I mean I think he put it perfectly say what you will about the prequel trilogy but that had a plan it had a set storyline and it had a progression to get where it was going. Meanwhile the sequel trilogy is just a jumbled mess that never had a clear overarching story and by the end it just was doing its best to limp to the finish line and be done.

And not only a new set of movies, but episodes 7, 8, and 9 in an on going story. You would think that they would have made a better effort to make their movies a natural continuation of the previous films.

@@JohnDoe-wq5eu Amazing, you've described all of the trilogies. Also, having a 'plan' does not equal a good or even cohesive story and I find this a shallow critique lobbed at the sequels. Don't get me wrong, the sequels aren't all that good, but planning an overall story wasn't it's issue in the slightest. Personally I would have preferred JJ Abrams fanboi finger to stay off the franchise because to me that's really where everything doesn't work. It's the 'reboot but not really' first movie combined with this silly 'mystery box' thing where he's fine to ask questions, but never bothers to answer them because when he does, it shows that he didn't have a handle on anything to begin with, just a concept with no follow through. I think Rian had a better set of ideas and fresher thinking for the series and it's a shame we didn't get him on all three movies in some capacity, whether directing, story or screenplay because he was opening up the universe in TLJ, something that JJ apparently wasn't unable or unwilling to do. The funniest thing about star wars is it's a huge battle spanning galaxies and yet only 6 people apparently are even halfway important in it? What a small galaxy apparently. Then again, I'm not a fan of long running IPs in general because even movies with just one sequel rarely justify their existence in the movie itself. It's only justification is *outside* the movie which is always 'yea it'll probably make the studio some money with low effort."

@@JohnDoe-wq5eu that’s what I think about the prequels too they had a planned story not a well executed story, but there was an idea to where to take the plot in that trilogy.

@@heavysystemsinc. You're talking about the deeper issues. Stuff like series fatigue, corporate greed and how mediocre at best most writers in Hollywood are. All true and all factors in why Star Wars died long before the sequel trilogy existed.

They hire the worst kind of people to work at Lucasfilm too, and fire people who were just speaking their opinions online at their own free time no less.

Ya I heard kk Actually said that we are scared of strong women i mean bro i like Ashoka tano and she is crazy powerful i mean she held her own against greavus as a padawan and took on Darth Vader later on and even damaged him Quite a bit which is a great feat to accomplish and here kk says that the sequel's are good but the fans are shocked by strong women

He would if the narrative was being driven by an overarching need to sunset traditional heroes.

The feck why does luke have a wife and kid isn't that against the Jedi code. The EU makes no sense

@@tango6130 the New Jedi Order set out to right the wrongs of the Jedi Order from the prequels. The old Jedi became complacent, blind, and dogmatic. Luke set out to make a better order. One change was Jedi could marry. Attachments weren't the path to the dark side, Jedi SHOULD love, the fear of losing those attachments was what lead to the dark side. Btw, Ki-Adi-Mundi had like 5 wives and 7 kids. Etain Tur-Mukan married a Clone Commando. Ayla Secura and Kit Fisto had a secret romance. Quinlain Voss had a wife and kids. Obi-Wan had like 5 different love interests. It was all over the Jedi of the prequels too.

@@Nidstang_ to be fair, Mundi only had wives because his species was endangered, and he didn't care about any of them

@@Nidstang_ i think the new jedi order really corrected the mistakes of the old jedi order, and improved the jedi as a whole. plus i loved the whole njo series it was great

I will never understand why!

@For the 501st "save" she nearly killed him. And it's still a mystery how they managed to get back to the base safely and before everyone else. Well to be fair, they already did that few moment earlier by escaping the ship (with incredible luck) and arriving before everyone else, somehow. Also a mystery how she managed to turn back and catch him by taking a longer path while he was obviously going as fast as he could in a straight line.

I fully agree. I actually leaned in from utter disbelief when Finn began his charge and remember thinking "they might actually salvage this movie", then Rose happens and I just check out. It just gets worse from there unfortunately.

I never really respected Finns character he was always somewhat of wasted potential right? When I was in the theater and he was about to yeet him self to save everyone it was one of the few times I felt any emotion when watching the sequel trilogy and then Rose came and knocked him out the way and I lost all respect I actually walked out of the theater at that very moment I’m a huge Star Wars fan have been my whole life but when that happened there was no hope left in my body to try and salvage the Shity Disney franchise in my mind

@@zenithquasar9623 It might have something to do with the fact that Finn would've gotten obliterated by the cannon and accomplished precisely nothing.

You mean the part when her and Kylo are about to team up against the Emperor?

What last fight in the Rise of the Skywalker are you talking about?? She was not fighting Stormtroopers there.

Not all facts are fun.

*Rey

@@HardCR0W Okay, sith troupers. All the same. She fights them twice in a row. It's the same fight. Same shot. Just a different camera angle and new cg.

But...she wasn't in a position to save anyone? It was the slave children who saved Rose, and they used the horses to save her and Finn. Trying to get the children out of there while already being hunted down by the police would have accomplished nothing. Meanwhile, setting the horses free wasn't the original goal as much as it was a pleasant byproduct.

@@JiveTAB That's even worse then, endangering animals to save their own asses. Fuck this movie.

@@JiveTAB not to mention they didn't go back to save the children after their fun little side quest lol.

@@purefoldnz3070 I don't exactly know how to respond to this comment. At this point, it seems like you're so dead-set on seeing flaws in this movie that you'll twist anything I say into a perceived crime. That said, I still don't see how "endangering animals to save themselves" is a logical reading of what occurred in the film. It was the kids who let the animals free, and as far as "endangering" goes, they would probably be far safer by attempting to escape the city than they would be remaining in captivity.

@@purefoldnz3070 The idea of the main characters returning to save the enslaved children is yet another baffling complaint that smells like you're simply trying to cook up critiques. I think it would be amazing for Finn, Rose, and co. to eventually return to Canto Bight to bring justice to the criminals and victims there, but to think that they should do so at the end of TLJ, where they barely managed to escape with their lives in tact, is asinine. Meanwhile, the ending of TLJ does bring up back to the children and shows that the main characters did in fact accomplish something for the children -- they provided the kids with hope. Specifically, what we're shown is that Luke's act on Crait became a story that swiftly traveled the universe, bringing hope to children within the universe in the same way that Luke in the original trilogy brought hope to children in the real world. And if you turn around and say that hope is worthless in comparison to actually saving the kids from their captivity, then I would have to surmise that you don't actually understand one of the major themes of the original trilogy.

@ Agreed! I think majority of us dont even want something new. We are more comfortable with things we are familiar with. The exploitation of nostalgia was not always like this so I'm curious what this means for the future of hollywood and media in general. (btw I enjoy these movies too its not that I dislike nostalgia in media in general)

@ True! I love Rogue One

That is the big difference between the people in charge of marvel and the people in charge of Star wars. They didn't even try to have a basic outline of where they wanted things to go. It wouldn't have even been an issue having different directors had they had basic things in place that couldn't be messed with instead they thought it would be a good idea to give these guys all the slack they wanted to do basically whatever they wanted. And the results were exactly what you'd expect.

@Steven Perez Have to agree - There was a definite lack of imagination... Or far too much, Lets be fair - Rian Johnson wanted to do something different and NOT play it safe - Yeah, he totally screwed it up, but to his credit he did take chances... To a degree!!! Disney, Rian Johnson and JJ Abrahams all made one CARDINAL MISTAKE!!! And it shows when you really look at it... I am a fan of the Movies, I am not well versed in Expanded Universe or Legends Material... But even I could see very, very clearly that ALL decided to try and appease Legends / EU fans by constantly borrowing or referencing EU Materials - Really bad with Johnson as he even posted Twitter Photos to explain where he got ideas from - Forcing Fans to read the EU Materials to understand his vision!!! NO! THAT IS NOT HOW A VISUAL MEDIUM WORKS!!! Palpatine back from the Grave in a Clone Body - Its in the EU, so CHECK! Palpatine's Grandchild... Its in the EU so CHECK! Rey being Related to a PREMIER Force User... Pure Sodding Fan Service ... CHECK! Yellow Lightsabre - Knights of the Old Republic, An EU Game so... CHECK! What makes it worse is with a little thought and imagination - These pieces of Fan Service COULD HAVE WORKED!!! They really could have... SCRAP Rey being related to ANY FORCE USER... That's NOT how the Force Works despite fans ASSUMING it does!!! (If it did, Then the Entire Star Wars Universe is about Incest!!! GROSS!!!) Have Snoke being one of Palpatines Clones!!! One that is steadily failing... MAKE SENSE! The Yellow Lightsabre is when Rey realises that True Balance means Embracing BOTH Light and Dark Side... And she forms teh GREY JEDI... Leading to another Trilogy then where Both Jedi and Sith can be Antagonists as BOTH believe they have the true path! There was simply NO THOUGHT! Only MONEY!

Good point!

It helps that there's source material to go off of. Sure Kevin Feige changed things, but he mostly stayed true to what was already in the comics. KK/JJ Abrams/Rian threw everything out, EU and George's own drafts, in favor of their own shallow, uninspired, and derivative writing.

You mean the story that spent over a dozen entries painting Purple Hulk and his minions as evil douchebags and then turned around and expected the viewers to turn around and like him because he farted out some bullshit about random genocide creating balance?

I also remember watching Star Wars in theaters. Before it was renamed episode 4 A New Hope in 1981. I figured George Lucas was seduced by the Dark Side and he saw an opportunity to make more movies and merchandise.

@@whitehorse4318 I mean... Can you blame the guy? And in the end, we all should be thankful for it, at least before Mouse fucked it up.

The Last Jedi...the whole movie was basically the scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail where Lancelot is running towards the castle. It cuts back to the guards, then back to him. Sometimes it seems like he gets further away and then after a few minutes, "HA!" and he starts killing everyone...but stretch it out for the length of a whole movie.

I was lucky enough to see an original print of episode 1 in a private viewing back in 2019. It was so cool seeing that piece of history. The sequels are just trash. I too never went back to rewatch Ep 8 or 9. They just make me feel apathy or annoyance.

As a man who saw all of the original trilogy in theaters, I liked the sequels,...for the most part. I mean sure, they weren't super terrific awesome, but at least they were still better than the prequels. Hell,...Force Awakens and Last Jedi were even better than Return of the Jedi! I'll take a Porg over an Ewok any day!

Same here!

Absolutely true. Most of us wanted to see Rey train with Luke, Kylo to train with Snoke, we wanted Finn to become a Jedi aswell, wanted to see the Knight of Ren being more than a bad cameo but to do something. To see what happened to Lukes Academy. So many interesting plotpoints - completely ignored by Roundhead Rian Johnson.

Yeah I use to like it a lot too.. not anymore since I know episodes 8 and 9 retroactively ruin it.. actually it ruins alot of original trilogy.. ACTUALLY that applies to the prequel trilogy aswell lol. Just gonna pretend these new movies were all non canon.

I walked out of the theater pissed off when I saw The Force Awakens. That trash movie showed me what to expect from Disney Star Wars.

Yes. It's a very cool shot, but does ruin the entire universe. TLJ is the worst movie I have ever seen.

Cause it's a 1 in a million shot 🤣🤣

Because suicide is a bad idea and a last resort, and they had a plan that could have worked with a few figters. If it "broke" the whooe franchise then why would jan ever bother doimg calculations and worry about colliding with things when jumping to light speed? Hitting things has been a part of the lore of hyperspeed since the first movie so please stfu. Its a moronic argument about a bloody scifi movie about space wizards.

@@ge2719 You could just make a droid pilot it.

@@pepsiipep7842 pilot what, an entire capital ship? As if the rebelion has tons of those just lying around. Also its shown droids have personalities, do they would still need to be willing to kill themselves. And even then the both of the death stars were a lot more massive than the ship snoke had.

For the same reason there is no scene in the original trilogy where Yoda meets Vader or Palpatine and Obiwan's scenes with Vader and Yoda are short. And Owen and Beru are killed off-screen by stormtroopers without ever meeting Vader.

THANK YOU!!!!!

@@TheHobgoblyn all the characters you listed were supporting roles. Bad analogy. Han, Leia and Luke not coming together for even a single scene is a mistake that can never be forgotten or forgiven.

@@TheKoboldHoard Not all of the cast from the prequels (generation 1) appeared in nor had many scenes together in the middle trilogy (generation 2), it should then follow that the third trilogy (generation 3) should not contain any more of the middle trilogy's characters than the prequel characters were in the sequels. If anything, they were in the movies way, way too much. Rise of Skywalker even brought in a bunch of supporting rebel pilot characters for a cameo. It really seems to me that what you wanted was not new stories but just a nostalgic 30 year anniversary cast reunion fan event.

@@TheHobgoblyn this is correct I don't want new Star wars movies. They can't do better they can't get even close don't even try please f*** off. And are you using the prequels in an argument? Those colossal s*** f*** films? No one wants to be little Annie and no one wants to be Rey. Everybody wants to be Luke Skywalker or Han Solo or princess Leia from the original trilogy. If they thought they had to make it, which they clearly did, having a short scene with these three in it should have been a thing. Literally no one agrees with you you're not going to win this one please log off and uninstall.

Ryan Johnson did that intentional. People waited decades for those characters to return. And this was the best they could give them within their older years is terrible. Alec Guinness did not want to play a major role in the original trilogy. But Mark Hamill did. Mark could of at least been the same mentor to ray without being a space ghost. And the wayfinder could of been what luke was seeking which could of lead to palpatine in the third movie. The story had so much potential. It was trash.

Yes 💪

Ikr

This was a prime example why Rian shouldn't have been trusted with Episode 8. He didn't care about the continuity.

@@Nick-4K Honestly though, Disney should have had a laid out plan and stuck to it. Instead it really does feel like they were doing a lot of stuff on the fly making important decisions script revisions etc. The whole two different directors thing wouldn't have been such an issue had they been forced to stick to a more rigid framework which of course they weren't.

@@Nick-4K It's just as much on Abrams for putting a highly visible wound on a major character in such a terrible spot to begin with. Abrams wasn't thinking about how it'd look a few scenes down the track so Rian had to deal with the mistake. At any point he could have said 'what's the gong to look like by the third movie' and seen his mistake. I really don't like TLJ or a lot of Rian's decisions but there are plenty of instances like that where he was handed something bad to work with and had to make the best of it.

Mark's finest insertion

I know right

J.j. Abrams and Kathleen Kennedy.

Everything about the prequel trilogy just feels rushed and poorly written. It's very clear they didn't even have a basic outline where they wanted to go with it and just sort of built the bridge as they were crossing it as they say. That and the fact that Ray suffers from the same problem 99.9% of female protagonists have in these movies. No decent progression and no needing to overcome any obstacles or adversity just they are super powerful no need to explain why the end.

Well that's just insulting to the Empire... they were incredibly well organized :P

I don't agree that it's the biggest issue. You don't necessarily need it all mapped out. Making a bad movie, then an awful movie, then another bad movie is the biggest issue. Not caring about the characters, the story, plot holes, inconsistencies, contrivances is the biggest issue.

The story of the original movies was pretty much just made up as they went along too. Much as Lucas likes to pretend he had a plan-- he really didn't. Anakin was never meant to be Vader, Leia was never meant to be the mysterious twin sister, Luke was never meant to be the one to take down the emperor (that was going to be his sister in her own trilogy), Jabba wasn't meant to be a big slug monster, etc. His original plans were a far messier and more convoluted story and they quickly veered off that plan by Emperor Strikes Back. Instead the sequel was going to be Splinter of the Mind's Eye. Only the prequels had a "road map" and even that got royally screwed up by choices that were made in the Phantom Menace. But there was at least a set end-point they needed to reach.

Yeah and that sent out the worst message to kids. Rey's character basically saying that, talent without dedication would yield success. Which is not true.

And I'll just remind you that after Anakin became a Padawan and trained under Obi-Wan and Yoda for several YEARS, Dooku just annihilated his ass in a minute.

Fact it stumbled so bad and fell not only on its face but apparently on its face into a giant pile of dog crap is just the monumental failure of Disney all around on this trilogy. Multiple directors, Katherine Kennedy the horrible horrible basic writing and the fact that they couldn't even form a basic arc structure for the freaking story ahead of time really shows how poorly planned out it all was. Everything about this feels so rushed to get a product out and it shows.

"The best thing they could've done..." was to give it to somebody else to make the movie. Logically, the appropriate story would be for Rey-Rey to be identified as a force user and be hunted down. We didn't need a so-called first order, just the remnants of the Empire trying to keep control and assassinate threats to their power.

Finn and Poe should been paired up and fought together like in a buddy movie, like a live-action version of Robotech. That would've been a perfect counterpoint to the heavier scenes of Rey training and being tempted by the Dark Side.

>Come on people, this stuff writes itself. True, but not if making money is the whole of your so-called "creative vision" :)

Cmon man do you really think that the lady who strutted around the premiere wearing a shirt that said the force is female would allow Rey to go bad

I mean it is hard to have a reasonable conversation considering the absolute fervent anger and hatred toward it. And though I think most of that is warranted I do feel like it's gotten way out of control for what it is. I have to say though at least things like the mandalorian prove Disney can do things properly it's just you can't rush it.

I mean-- so long as you are a character who has existed in more than one scene in Star Wars, a crash landing is never fatal. That was long, long established before that scene. The really silly part is just how long of a conversation they have out in the open in front of a large army with no other targets. The first order was rather considerate to just stand there motionless for a good two or three minutes to let them have their emotional scene.

The parts of the last trilogy I hated was all the repeated times Finn kept hollering "Rey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!", plus he couldn't use a lightsaber, and yet he said he felt the force. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

@@TheHobgoblyn I dunno man, the way they shot it made it look like she murdered Finn. I remember watching the HISHE of this movie and I thought they exaggerated the crash for humor only to find out that's exactly how it looked in the movie.

@@CJDM310 ehh, in the last one, kyli survive an even more brutal one without even a scratch !

@@laurentmaquiet5631 Yeah, that was also dumb

I roll my eyes whenever I see a Star Wars fangirl cosplaying as Rey. Like, if you want female role models in Star Wars, there's Ahsoka Tano, Padme Amidala, Princess Leia, all far better options.

Well, being immature has a tendency to do that for some people.

i hated episodes 7 8 an d 9 i blame kathleen kennedy j j and rian johnson of course disney themselfs for destroying the sequel trilogy rushing it and not taking their time with each film ot and pt trilogy took 2 years between films the only charecter i liked was kylo ren/ben solo but they didnt how to use the charecter and i hated this entire dyad bullshit which screws up the entire first 6 films they are changing the sith rule of two to match up with that piece of garbage film known as the rise of skywalker i hated the last jedi i loath that film defending the sequel trilogy is wrong the sequel trilogy is garbage pure garbage u grew up eading star wars books and movies and rey is not a true skywalker shes a palpatine at the end of the sequel she gets the rank as jedi master she never trained nobody how come she gets that rank plus jedis dont kill but kylo ren killed snoke in bloody murder when you kill off the main bad guy snoke was suposse the new palpatine but then they killed off te main bad guy and brought back a bad guy whos already dead the sequel trilogy is garbage and it will alwas will be garbage rey is the worst charecter ever created known to mankind

Filming had completed on The Last Jedi and Carrie Fisher was signed up for Ep9., and you want a director to completely restructure a story due to her death? You don't like the movie, you don't like Rian Johnson...fine...but suggesting that a scene be re-purposed (and completely changing the plot of the movie as a consequence) simply to provide a tacky death scene for Leia...is just nonsense.

I don't understand Rian Johnson's defenders, this is a 101 of what not to do

@@daviddobarganes9115 i consider episode 8 a trashfire of a film i hate this whole force dyad stuff im a star wars superfan but this is not how to make a film this movie trilogy is totally disjointeded and feels rushed

@@SwirlyThings clearly rian johnson does not understand star wars at all he turned my all time favorite charecter into a douchebag the killed him off

The actor said this himself. He actively complains now that his character arc goes nowhere and was basically a bait and switch. He should have become a Jedi (Rey does train him in an animation but that's too late). He should have had a far larger importance.

@Jon Hesson I know they delete certain people from the marketing, but Disney knew before TFA China hates "British" people. So why even bother giving him the dope backstory and the second lead? Its almost as if Disney is now run by a bunch of dipsh*ts.

@Jon Hesson Is saying "black" taboo or something? But yes, one of the main reasons I never made it past TFA was Finn running around like an idiot after "Reeeyyyyy!!!" Just a waste of potential.

@@carltonbanks5470 REEEYYYYY originally they were going to be in a romance story too but that was also cut.

at no point before Ep 9 was Finn hinted at as being Force sensitive

"Imagine a more depressing statement." Man, calm down. Its just a movie.

It's true though. If the sequels are the first introduction they get to Star Wars when they are young then they'll like them.

God forbid we let children have their own opinions about the movies they enjoy

I doubt the sequels will even be remembered by many kids. The Marvel films will have a greater impact overall. I remember when I was a kid (during the time the prequels were being released) and stores had whole rows devoted to Star Wars toys. Despite the critical reception to the prequels, the toys were selling like hot cakes. That demand simply doesn't exist for sequels merchandise.

@@thenewapelles6448 I think was different times. In that era, you didnt have the internet and the impact on internet in children today... Like, there is even content dedicated to kids on KZfaq. I barely see my little cousin with toys, he is more watching some random dumb youtube channel

A reflection of the current horrible zeitgeist

It's only viewed as hatred for the source material because it was bad Were it a solid film in its own right, breaking the cycle of "we know exactly how this is going to happen because it's a Star Wars movie and Jedi are good and perfect and anything else is bad and evil" would've made for a very compelling film in the movies Looking into any of the SW lore outside the main 9 films tells you the universe and the dichotomy of the Light and Dark side is more nuanced, tells you not all Jedi are good/not all Sith are bad, etc. The destruction of countless years of dogmatic religious worship, the recognition of Yoda's failings and how his dogmatism led to the rise of Vader and Palpatine, etc are examples of themes that could've been explored and resulted in something very much fitting for the source material, but the film (independent of the Star Wars name) wasn't all that great, which means instead of the message of "the fact we keep doing the same things over and over expecting different results and that clearly doesn't work" (i.e. "Kill the past if you have to") could've made for a very compelling narrative, *especially* immediately following The Force Awakens which might as well been a shot-for-shot remake of A New Hope The Last Jedi had the potential to be one of the best Star Wars stories we had, but RJ clearly didn't want to step on too many toes, didn't care enough about the characters (Yoda I personally think was done well but Rey is still garbage and Luke was a major disappointment), and JJ was just gonna retcon anything too outside the norm anyway If JJ or RJ had control over the entire set of sequels, we would've gotten very different films. JJ would've made a fanservice extravaganza where Rey is perfect cuz god forbid she not be (I still think it would've been crap tbh) RJ might've made something that added complexity to the story the way Darth Vader's character arc added complexity to the originals. Personally, of the 3 films, TLJ is my favorite, to many people's surprise, because it at least took some risks and wasn't phoned in copy-paste like 7 and 9 were to me. It doesn't hate the source material, it just tried (badly) to do something actually *NEW* with it pulling from lore outside the main movies, and big daddy Disney didn't want too much of that, and JJ basically gave the finger to all of it in The Rise of Skywalker (like RJ did to TFA in TLJ) As someone who grew up with Star Wars, it was a much-anticipated breathe of fresh air for the series to me, and unfortunately that "fresh air" ended up being a strong hit from an exhaust pipe instead. Of all the sequels I actually have the most respect for TLJ, even with all its fuckups, because at least it isn't a friggin' clone of movies we've already seen. That's still a very, very low amount of respect and I don't intend to ever rewatch any of those films, but I'll take "new risks" instead of "laughably rehashed money printer".

@@stravask9835 I think rian has a lot of issue's in that fuck up mind of his.

I, like millions of others, walked out of the theatre for The Last Jedi, and then out of the Star Wars fandom forever. Disney doesn’t want my money. If they did, they wouldn’t have released The Last Jedi.

@@haircutdeluxe Your past and your memories mean little to these weasels.

He legit served no purpose in the entire set of films

Check out Mauler's critiques (each one is even longer than the movies' runtimes) and Red Letter Media does a great job too.

What I find so fascinating is that a movie made in the 70's is so well made. Wouldn't you think that a movie today would be better?

Disney probably did have a plan, it's just that it got constantpy changed due to everyone's reaction after TFA, everyone, and I literally mean *everyone* loved it, then after 2 months *everyone* again decided it's a trash rehash. Then the plan probably got completely scrapped after TLJ.

@@oliverklosov5153 Seriously? Mauler? The same guy that makes 15 hour long podcasts bullying people who disagree with him? That guy is a full blown degenerate, idk how can anyone follow him.

@@user-ly2ll5od1r Allegedly, JJ had scripts written for 7 8 and 9, but Rian Johnson threw out the script 100% for 8, which is why its so out of place and doesn't make much sense, and why 9 retconned much of 8, and was also a huge mess.

It was a bland, boring and mediocre movie written by someone who doesn't know much about Star Wars.

@@gregoryl.levitre9759 This. And the Andor series is just as mediocre and has nothing to do with Star Wars at all. Not to mention, Rogue One is just as dumb as The Force Awakens if you think even a little bit about what's going on there.

A troll movie

Me too. Well said

You have my sympathy. The few times I've been among an audience that clapped at the end of a commercial playback of a recording left me feeling embarrassed to be part of such a group. Fun fact: _Rouge One_ was originally going to be titled Vermilion One. They changed it when Disney's accountants discovered they were going to be charged by the letter.

I saw the Force Awakens in 5th grade as well, and I liked it, as well as Rogue One. The Last Jedi I thought was divisive and I didn't get any answers of origins stories for characters and things looked pretty slow. When TROS came out I kinda liked it cuz it wasn't like TLJ.

I had the same reaction. Throughout my first viewing of TLJ I kept thinking to myself “there’s no way this guy is Luke.” The character we see in the sequels just doesn’t feel like the character in the original trilogy.

For some reason nowadays people think it is "character development" if you make someone the total opposite of their personality with no legitimate reason.

In RoS when Luke says "a Jedis weapon deserves more respect", I wanted to shout "then why did you throw yours away??" in the theater.

Yeah, a tie figher literally crashed from space and both survive? That made me instantly worry about TFA as i watched it in cinema. I feel like not enough people talk about that aspect.

@@BenRai2k I wasn't even thinking about that aspect. I was referring to how Poe just disappears, the ship sinks underground and later he's like 'yeah. Don't worry about how I escaped certain death. It's not important'. He might as well have just said 'I'm a main character, idiot'. I think movies like f&f have made me numb to crashes actually causing anyone harm.

As I understood it. Poe was supposed to die then. But as with the rest of the writing they went screw it.

Just shows the lack of effort that went into the writing. Originally was supposed to die, but JJ, upon hearing that so many of Oscar Isaacs characters have been killed decided that he would spare Poe. However he didnt bother changing the story to justify that decision.

JJ Abrams being involved was the first and only sign necessary to prove that the movie would be piss poor writing

agree 110% The way the movie started set that up better than anything. It follows Finn the most, treats him as the protagonist, then kicks him to the curb once Rey comes into the picture.

Maybe have Poe serve as a rebel who becomes a Stormtrooper?

@@austinreed7343 he would have to become brain washed or mind controlled to do that, but it might be a bit too much

@@gravityfalls1826 Not necessarily. Holdo could cause him to lose faith.

If I could rewrite the Sequel Trilogy I'd keep everything exactly the way it is... up until the end of The Last Jedi. The entire Sequel Trilogy was doing brilliantly up to the end of the second movie... and then Disney sadly decided to listen to the blind haters and thus made Rise of Skywalker (A stupid name to start with) ignore, retcon, or even outright mock everything The Last Jedi established. What they should have done was continue with rather than avoid the rather large amount of plot hooks that TLJ set up. Most notably, the fact that the Resistance is reduced to a handful of people in an old smuggler's freighter and the fact that a psychopathic manchild was in control of the most powerful military force in the galaxy. Either one of those alone would've been enough material for an entire TV series not to mention a third movie.

Honestly though, I have no idea how you can defend these movies. I've seen some people try, and it's kind of pitiful. Like if you enjoy them, that's cool, but you can't say it's a good trio of movies overall, because they objectively don't work as a complete package, especially if you try and marathon them with the first 6 films. I don't think they're going to get any better as the years go on. I heard CinemaWins (I really enjoy his videos, but his ROS video is just sad) argue that some of the things that happened when kids watch them will seem normal, because they hadn't had years of experience loving the original movies. When Palpatine shot lightning in ROTJ, you aren't thinking "that's wrong! Since when has Force lightning been a thing?" But Force lightning doesn't contradict previous movies. Palpatine is the strongest Sith we've ever known, and he's been ruling for years, of course he has powers that we've never seen before. But the Force powers introduced in the ST create plot holes, and I don't use that word lightly. Healing, being the biggest example. And don't give me that "they can do it because they're a dyad" bs, because Grogu used it in The Mandalorian, clearly this is a power anybody can use. The Prequels on the other hand, they REALLY work. They expanded the story, they showed the past that the OT just talked about, and they even got dark. Episode 3 in particular was the first SW film rated PG-13, and it earned that. A lot of people don't like them because of the dialogue and CGI, but the story is good enough for me to ignore them.

@@captainvader921 The CGI criticism is way overblown, the movies don't look nearly as bad as people make them out to be, in fact, I'd say the CG holds up quite well for the most part. Sure, some of the dialogue is kind of cheesy, but hey, this is a space opera, not a dramatic adaptation of a famous piece of literature, and the same can be said about the original trilogy

@@captainvader921 How you gonna tell this dude his opinion is wrong. Your's is just as subjective as his. That's the shit I hate about fandom. Everybody think their opinions is law

@@kingkoop28 when did I say "your opinion is wrong?" I specifically said in my comment "if you enjoy them that's cool"

@@captainvader921 I guess you don't remember telling dude that you don't understand how can anybody defend the movies. And that they are objectively bad. Sorry bud everything you said is subjective. Your opinion is not the law Judge Dredd

I'm guessing the whole palpatine angle was basically an incredibly lazy and hackneyed attempt to explain/shoehorn in the poorest way possible at the last possible second why she somehow has an innate ability to basically do all the crazy crap they think she's capable of doing for some reason. I mean the movie has the worst tendencies with the Ray character it takes the worst and I mean worst current trends in movies and just shoves them into this movie in the most in your face we don't give a damn it's all about the message kind of way. I really truly hope that the series is finally done and we will never see another continuation of the story ever again.

"Force Awakens is a lazy rehash." Ayup.

@@JohnDoe-wq5eu the crazy thing about trying to explain Rey’s powers is that it’s already done in The Last Jedi. Snoke says, “Darkness rises and light, to meet it.” The reason why he wanted to kill Luke is because he thought it was him, not expecting it to be Rey, which ties in well with the whole thing about heroes coming from common or unexpected places. The force awakened and Kylo and Rey are the emissaries who will decide how things balance out in this new age. I was satisfied enough with that, but 🤷🏾‍♂️.

Dark Lady *Kuntleen* Kennedy is a genius and I will not have anybody criticize her direction of Star Wars!

Palpatine was just... Before the final film I read that Jar-Jar could be revealed as planning everything as a Master Villain, that would definitely been better.

It wasn't called episode 4 back then, it was just STAR WARS.

@@proto-geek248 episode 4 is the first thing you see at the beginning genius.

The retroactive subtitle "Episode IV: A New Hope" was not added until 1981. The original theatrical release was simply called Star Wars. The title change was in anticipation of plans to make a horrible prequel trilogy & the eventual addition of Jar Jar Binks level CGI bullcrap to the original trilogy. Any real Star Wars fan will get the original theatrical version of Star Wars & chuck their CGI-laden Episode IV: A New Hope DVD into the trash where it belongs.

@@proto-geek248 Or...you could get some therapy

@@proto-geek248 I've seen an original title crawl on KZfaq without Episode IV written in. Probably edited digitally but still looked good. From my understanding the studio took back all the prints from 77. All subsequent home media releases have episode IV written on the title crawl.

Episode III is a masterpiece.

III is my favorite star wars movie. I grew up with the clone wars and that era. II was ass tho

@@RaulGarfias I agree with you, except for the outrageous overacting of the guy playing Palpatine, and the fact that Anakin Skywalker - a guy who has literally led armies into battle for the last three years - still doesn't seem to know how to do anything except act like a spoiled teenager.

Why? You appreciate there being 6 bad Star Wars movies instead of just 3 bad ones?

@@quntface1518 I appreciate George Lucas more than Kathleen Kennedy, yes.

the thing is it's not like Disney doesn't have tons of legacy content pre-Disney, that they can just bring over, they did it with their TV show by bringing characters like Thrawn, they sit on a gold mine of ready-made contents for star wars that go beyond original and the squandered it all by making these awful sequels.

But at least the prequels followed the lore of the original trilogy

Probably has something to do with the fact that George Lucas is a no talent credit stealing hack who in reality had barely anything at all to do with the Original Trilogy and thus creating Star Wars.

@@immortalfrieza I don't think that's true. He does have talent, but that talent comes across much better when he collaborates with people who are willing to offer constructive criticism and challenge him when needed. And for far too long, he surrounded himself with people who were the exact opposite of that.

@@immortalfrieza That' is a pathetic and short-sighted and ignorant take

I'm 51, a long time Star Wars fan from 1977 on... 🎬 The Force Awakens 3rd act clearly sets up Luke as a super hero who swings in to save the good guys(new cast). The audiences would go 🍌🍌🍌🍌 if JJ ended The Force Awakens with Luke returning.

I didn't like it, because we didn't get to see the transition. I get that because the actors were so old they were kind of limited on what they could do, but ideally we should see the story of why Luke would be so jaded. We see that he makes a bad decision, one that I don't think he would ever make, and that's what we're supposed to believe jaded him.

I don't even think the way he behaved was so much the problem. Just change the backstory. Make it so that the importance he placed on family and blind optimism caused him to totally spoil his nephew and ignore the growing dark side influence in him until it took over and when the Knights of Ren attacked the temple, Ben sided with them. That would have linked his motivations from RotJ to the sense that he had lost faith in the Jedi ways and had no interest in teaching anyone-- especially if they showed dark side tendencies.

If you want the REAL grandmotherfuckingmaster Luke skywalker, legends have you covered

@@michelecastellotti9172 Nah-- Legends Luke Skywalker is like "comic book that should have ended years ago and is written by a dozen people who don't know how to resolve a story without just giving the hero more powers to trivialize any enemy we can dream up for him" Luke Skywalker. As that was never what the character was ever meant to be, can't really call that the 'real' version. More like the bad fanfic version.

It would have taken one hour and a whiteboard for a rough but workable skeleton for the entire trilogy. This could have taken place at the same time they seemingly just let Michael Arndt struggle alone on the script for episode 7 for a year or so. Heck, they could have let him look at and contribute to the bigger picture of the trilogy as a whole as a constructive way to help him out of his rut. But instead they just let him flounder, panicked when time ran short, kicked him out and got JJ Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan to rewrite the script from scratch in 6 weeks, leaving a ridiculously short amount of time to contemplate any planning beyond the next immediate deadline. Shambolic.

Thanks for posting this. I am 2:33 in and paused to comment on how shocked I was to be witnessing actual maturity and reasonableness. That and I completely agree about Rogue 1 😀.

@@srutzky Rogue 1 might have been ok if they had actually thought of giving any of the characters actual personality traits or even personalities.

People are really exaggerating Rey's abilities. The only time Rey ever beats anyone is when she's already got a massive advantage like when Kylo was badly injured before the fight. She gets manhandled by anyone that's fresh remotely competent like how she got smacked around by Snoke. If Rise of Skywalker got anything right it was showing that even with some training and both at their best Rey doesn't stand a chance against Kylo Ren in a straight fight.

He obviously took so much time figuring that out congrats to him it’s hard to coney that. I agree

I agree....but it's pretty passive aggressive after the beginning. He's saying it's complete rubbish in a polite, calm and structured way after his disclaimer. Even making comedy skits about how bad the writing is (which was laugh out loud funny). You don't have to look far to see what camp he is in.

@@thebassconnection7226 there's no camp. He's making a valid argument and he's supporting it well. His points are further supported by the exponential decrease in ticket sales from episodes 7-9 and all of the offshoots. The movies are bad for all the reasons he mentioned and more. If there's a camp, you're the one who's in it.

@@jw9737 I highly dislike the films, yes, but its still subjective..I know people that love the films and some opinion on youtube wouldnt change their minds...I have no idea why the aggressive reply though.

@@thebassconnection7226 Its not subjective. Certain things are, but overall its objective.

It would have if George hadn't switched to the prequel era back in the 90's.

@@darthkai8242 Yes, I agree that story arc was complete in ROTJ. I still want to see more adventures with him, the founding of the new jedi school, the events of the sequels NEVER HAPPENING and his school is a success....

@@lookingforwookiecopilot They should still do it with sebastian stan in the role. Completely erase the sh*t stain that is the sequels.

@@maxheadroom4659 I'm cool with them doing more with that guy as the young Luke. ,...but it won't erase where he's headed!

Dam and I was five when Episode III came out.

I don't completely get the "grew up with the prequels/sequels talk - both groups watched the originals first, right?

@@JH-pt6ih I grew up with the clone wars but yeah I watched the originals first.

@@JH-pt6ih “grew up with” means they weren’t adult enough to see the faults of said trilogy when they first saw them

Cheers for making me feel ancient