If I had a nickel for every time a rather sussy purple space marine chapter was claimed to be Fists stock, I’d have two nickels. Which isn’t a lot but it’s weird it happened twice

Ultima founding: robute sais to belisarius: no traitor gene seed. Belisarius: yes my lord. Turns around. 'just a little bit'.

Another almost certaily Emperor's Children chapter are the Death Eagles. Because during the Heresy there was company of Emperor's Children who remained loyal, with said company being straight up called the Death Eagles. So almost certainly after the heresy they just painted their armor black and went "guys, we are totally Raven Guard successors" and called it a day.

Bile: *Spends all day trying to cure his legion’s space cancer* Cawl: “You are like little bab. Check this out!”

"If there is any doubt about who your primarch is just say Guilliman. Ultramarine successor chapters are a dime a dozen so nobody will question it!" -Sons of Luna giving advice to the Emperor's Adolescents

I love these guys, totally Fulgrims true sons to me. What I love about it is that it’s such a perfect disguise. Oh a lot of them have silver white hair? Well so did Dorn. And any aspects of them acting like Dorns sons are easily explained as the entire chapter totally believing that they are sons of Dorn and thus follow the lead of other Fist chapters. And I don’t know if it is cannon or not but I heard recently that these guys take a special interest in their mortal troops and often lead them directly. Could totally be fan talk, but if it isn’t I don’t know anything more like Fulgrim than to help those under you be BETTER!

Always got irked by the whole “if the traitors fell before they can fall again” argument. The loyalists aren’t immune to warp shenanigans or their own stupidity. Half the Dark angels were banished or outright fell to chaos due to what was basically a terrible emergency alert system combined with The Lion and Luther both pointing and yelling “he started it.”

The "Definelty not used Emperors Children geneseed" Chapter.

Looking forward to seeing the reaction of these guys when Clonegrim walks into the room… once Trazyn finally gets around to releasing him.

With the new Fulgrim model revealed last night, I expect him to return to the lore soon. We might get answers sooner than later.

Regardless of their true progenitor, I like how the sons of the phoenix show surprising links and similarities between the imperial fists and emperors children which are legions you don’t see directly compared very often outside of some Horus heresy stuff

It’s interesting to note that Belisarius never says that he wouldn’t ever use traitor gene seed. Just that he wouldn’t going FORWARD.

I really like the idea of them being Fulgums scions, it gives the setting some nice depth and some interesting ideas about how much gene seed actually effects a space marine

The Carcharadons are ravens guard specifically because Corvus Corrax exiled his Terran Astartes to the outer reaches of space since they were so brutal in their methods. The night lords and raven guard switched reputations once more of their respective Primarch’s home world flooded the legion

Sons of the Phoenix are what got me interested in successor chapters and loyalist space marines as a whole. I currently have an army being ran with Black Templar rules since that seems the most fitting. I’m even trying to recreate the Ember Phoenix characters too. Sovennes is almost done, I just need to paint him. And that new Daredao Dreadnought from Horus Heresy you know I’m making Vespian for sure.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SPACE SHARK MENTION

I also like that they actually use Clone Fulgrim in the Ember Phoenix comics cause I think it is an interesting idea that is just sitting in Trazyn’s collection

The next Iron Hand book series will involve the Sons of the Phenox as allies invading a Necron Tomb complex in order to retrieve an artifact and kill all hostile. Trazyn the Infinate will be directly implicated into the book and the Emperor's Children will make an appearance alongside Fabious Bile. Take this info with what you will.

I like the idea of them being EC successors mainly because I feel like it really harkens back to them being some of *the* most stalwart in their loyalty before the Laer happened. If Rylanor survived he would've definitely been their chapter master.

No problem g-man, I won't use any traitor gene seed! As I've already used it!

I love the old intro being back!! It is unique to you, and makes your channel feel more genuine.

Space sharks *are* raven guard successors. They were a group of raven guard attached to sons of Horus so they learned their assault tactics and ways of combat. This ostracized them from the rest of their raven guard brothers, so they kept isolated. Sons of Horus deployed demoralising tactics such as torture and trophy display, as well as brutal assault warfare. There is no evidence that Carcaradons are night lords, in fact night lords only attack those weaker than themselves where the Carcaradons will attack larger targets than themselves (and often win).

I really like the idea of traitor legion successor chapters. Something had to happen with the portions of their legions that stayed loyal and survived Isstvan or their regional equivalent. The sons of the phoenix as an ultima founding chapter aren't exactly that, but i think its just neat that you can have loyalist space marines that derive from the unique qualities of the traitor legions, just as you can have chaos marines that are loyalist successors and turned traitor as individual chapters.

I dont think Guilliman denied Cawl because he thought they would turn, I think he denied it because he had just been revived with Mechanicus and Xeno BS and people would be very skeptical of him starting to change things rapidly. Like Ending the imperial creed with a flip of a switch would open up Eclesiarchy to shout that the filthy xenos had corrupted the son of god. and Guilliman greenlighting the manufacturing of Traitor geneseed Astartes would likely go down the same rabbithole. Some members of Mechanicus and Eclesiarchy claiming that the Avenging son is corrupted by chaos and trys to build an army for the traitors. HH loyalist traitors didnt have much chance either but atleast if they managed to prove themselves they were taken in the loyalists. That wouldnt fly in M42 when every deviation from the norm of the Imperium and Imperial Creed is considered heresy.

These guys are totally the Emperor's Grandchildren.

Weren't the Emperor's Children given their name and the aquilla symbol for them sacrificing most of their marines to protect Big E during an assassination attempt?

My own personal head canon for the Minotaurs is that I’ve always thought of them more as untainted world eater geneseed, in the Angron primarch novel the legion has a very spartan flavor to its way of warfare that I always enjoyed before they took the nails and devolved into what they’ve become

I am an Emperor's Children Enjoyer so ofc they gotta be EC successors. Waiting for Trazyn to free my boy so we can have the clash of the century between loyalist and traitor EC legions

I love these vids! I don't see many obscure chapters spoken about!

When you talk about the Space Sharks, will you include a picture of Garchomp?

I think sons of the Phoenix being EC successor, and Clonegrim coming back to do battle against the EC and Daemon Fulgrim would be righteous. Narratively I enjoy the idea of Daemon Fulgrim losing over and over, just like after Rylanor he is a troubled lesser being who can’t escape how far he’s fallen. After each loss his warp presence diminishes until he’s a whisper in the warp. Clonegrim wouldn’t have to win or survive, just so long as Fulgrim loses over and over.

Dude, we love you, no matter which intro you use. As long as it's the old one, of course! But we love you anyway.

Look I love your content and I am also a night lords/curze simp. Space sharks are raven guard "Arkhas Fal was the Shade Lord of the XIXth Legion during The Great Crusade, before the Legion was reunited with their Primarch Corvus Corax. He was exiled to the outer dark as part of a nomad-predation fleet" shit lines up to nicely

We also have the confirmed one in the Silver Skulls. Loyalist Iron Warriors.

I believe it was confirmed that the Minotaurs are an Iron Warrior’s successor, which is why they only take their orders from the high lords.

I would like them to be Emps Children. As you mentioned, I think it could lead to great storytelling. Imagine if they discovered they were actually Emperor's Children the whole time and also learn about there being a purified version of their genefather trapped by the Necrons. Essentially these space marines trying to do a heist on Trazyn the Infinite to free their primarch while demon Fulgrim tries to corrupt the chapter at every turn on their mission. I also think it could be entirely possible if A, Both Imperial Fist and Emperor's Children were mixed together. Or B, The Sons of The Phoenix are made up of pure Emperor's Children geneseed, but given the Imperial Fist playbook. (In a nutshell, born emps children, raised as imperial fists)

Thank you for bringing back the awkward intro😊. Sending love and kisses to oatmeal😘

Bobby G: "No traitor gene seed!" Cawl: "Wot? Sunspots...signal breaking up..."

What makes the sons of the phoenix so interesting a concept to what the traitors legions could have looked like in 40k should they have stayed loyal. I could buy the idea that over time the emperors children would go from idolizing the emperors to worshiping him as a god

To be fair any chapter descended from a legion which uses the "pain glove" is just some sexy mood music and lavender scented oils away from Slaanesh anyway.

You literally made a poll on which intro we liked. Don’t act surprised.

Hi I found your channel recently and your really funny but was wondering if there's anywhere to watch your old streams since twitch doesn't have them

If you don't already know the Minotaurs are confirmed IW successors. You don't have a lot of lore cred.

Im not sure the imperial fists or the iron hands would appreciate new chapters with iron warriors and emperors children geneseed. Also i like the idea of loyalist chapters having tendencies similar to traitor genelines but genuinely are sons of loyalist primarchs to show geneseed wont pre determine chapter culture

You forgot about the Soul Drinkers who were purple and gold too and supposed to be Imperial fist successors. They were loyal, but got tricked by daemons and kinda turned to chaos and got mutated. But then they found out and don't like chaos are now considered chaotic neutral but everyone hates them. Their current chapter master killed the last one in a duel and now has 4 spider legs which he got as "gifts" for winning the duel and was also their chief librarian at the time. And they were then put on trial by the IFs and were told my an apothecary their gene seed is not imperial fists after all.

I'm here to support the Old Intro and as always the background music.

It is important to note that some chapter have in universe rumors of being successors of traitor legions

Pre-Heresy Emperor's Children are the coolest of all the legions so some loyalist successors would be awesome

Redeemed Clonegrim vs Daemon Fulgrim would be awesome

Wooooo! These are my bois! As soon as I saw their armor I fell in love♡ Now I'm making them with Zumikito's recepie, tedious to say the least but love the results♡ I also found it extremely interesting that their gene-seed could be either/both Fists and EC. The potential powder-keg waiting to explode is cool as hell to think about! But I agree that it is more interesting as a mystery, a lot of people are bound to be dissapointed if it is revealed one way or the other.

Chaotic Voices has a short seires on the Sons of the Phoenix. I enjoyed it very much and I'm glad to find out they are a real chapter. Thank you Arthur for letting me know about the webcomic. I will definitely check that out.

Thanks for bringing back the old intro. You saved me having to make a disappointed comment.

would be a funny/interesting story if Clonegrim managed to escape Trazyn's museum and blend in with the sons of the phoenix and is more than enthusiastic with the constant crusades after finding out he's not just a clone but also the original Fulgrim and his legion done fuct up.

Fan of them and stumbled onto channel by chance. You earn a like good sir!

Hoping you'll one day do a video on the Black Dragons.

May I ask for the name of the background music? I like it.

I just made a joke about these recently and now there is a video on them lol. Though I thought their cover was they were blood angels successors.

When it comes to more Chimeric geneseed, I thought the Minitaurs were made from a mix of Iron warriors and the World eaters for some reason. It makes sense in my head but I'm not entirely sure how to explain it

You should do a video on Tyberos or mix him into the Cahracaradon video he is one of my favorite space marine character also Retributor chapter when?

Is there a place where all the chapters of ember phoenix are together? I can only find like the first three on reddit and nothing else.

I heard once he tried to get gene seed from the [REDACTED] legions casue apparently there still in stock?

All I know is that the Leviathan box is perfect for them (fire and meelee is the main things in that box)

I personally err on the side of Emperor's Children successors. Another suspect chapter in my opinion is the Silver Templars. Also knight-vibe, very melee and more specifically duel-oriented, with a high emphasis on martial perfection with weapons made by their own hands. They may not have any purple in their color scheme, and are supposedly of Roboute Guilliman's gene heritage, but they do not exhibit his uncanny knack for tactics and logistics, and Guilliman isn't particularly known for his swordsmanship. An odd point about the Silver Templars is that they form deep connections with the machine spirits of their masterfully self-crafted arms, and have an intuitive ease with understanding technology. At first glance, this trait could come from several different primarchs. Vulkan, Ferrus Manus, Perturabo, and Fulgrim come to mind. We can automatically count Vulkan and Ferrus Manus out since they're both loyal and their sons have no reason to lie about their gene heritage. Perturabo quickly gains knowledge on how technological things work, but does not necessarily hold a fondness for melee combat, and is in fact one of, if not the only Primarch, to favor ranged weaponry. Perturabo's designs usually favor pragmatism over flair, and his methods are more geared towards digging in for prolonged siege warfare than carving dangerous paths to enemy commanders for quick, decisive eliminations of key targets. Where Perturabo represents a slow march of trenches and continuous bombardments and carefully calculated pressure on enemy defenses, Fulgrim is much more like a swift scalpel, moving with a disciplined gracefulness that cuts deep into enemy lines. Fulgrim and his sons were few enough in number that they couldn't afford any manner of prolonged, head-on conflict. That, and people often forget that Fulgrim is extremely competent at understanding and improving technologies. He started out on Chemos as a lowly miner, made enough improvements to the mining equipment that the world's economy could thrive again, and achieved a level of artistry with artifice that even Ferrus Manus couldn't deny it. I don't think Fulgrim's understanding of technology is the same as Perty's (literal book smarts versus intuitive vibing), but he still demonstrates a great aptitude for master craftsmanship. If the Silver Templars are descendants of Fulgrim, it stands to reason that they'd be masters of artfice, capable of crafting great works of both artistic value and of exceptional lethality.

Is there a website or book that shows EVERY legion and successor chapters?

Ahhh good old ice-cream truck Arthur is back! 😉

Back at it again with another banger

I theorize that the Wolfspear chapter are a chimeric mix of Russ/Horus

I like the idea that the Sons of the Phoenix were made from the geneseed of members of the Emperors Children that DIDN'T become corrupt.

Where can i find the ember phoenix Web comic?

Could we perhaps get a Carcharadons video? I know that we don't know which founding they are a part of but.... I mean they are pretty cool. I appreciate you brining them up at the start here.

Song In the background?

Came for the "uuuh", Stayed for the "hi!" Regardless of the intro, the content is always fun and interesting. Love your work

The old intro is unique to you and is what actually caught my attention with your videos SOOO!!! glad you brought it back the new one was simply put DEPRESSING AS HELL!!!

Hmm, "the phoenecian" is actually from the phoenecian people of the Levant back in the BC age. They were traders who made the very rare purple dye from crustaceans!

Where can we find the comic, link please?

dude i love your work by far one of my favorite Warhammer lore creators

Hey man, if it makes you feel any better, I straight up did not notice your intro had changed

i think there desendents of treader liganions as that idea is one of the most popular fan ideas cents the days of the blood ravens. gw love playing with the idea of lolouset desendest of trader primarks

Idk if one exists but I’d love to see a video on a totally not world eater’s successor

Nice two see more stuff on the colour scheme I'm going for

Part of the Caracharadons’ charm is their less-than-likely ancestry-Raven Guard makes sense if they were a 2nd Founding chapter since the RG got annihilated on Istvan, and the projects Corvus was desperate enough to try ended up with so many twisted and horrendous mutations among recruits. I like to think they're a chimeric chapter, Raven Guard basis with founding members counting Loyalist Night Lords that thought Curze was a drama queen and World Eaters that somehow escaped the Butcher’s Nails implantation/weren't nearly as affected by them as the rest of the Anger-on Fan Club. Also the Maori aesthetic is fuckin’ metal as sin!

You mentioned Covenant of Fire chapter, if Vulkan’s sons then wouldn’t many have the tell tale skin and eyes?

Oh yeah, *totally* not traitor geneseed G-man. These guys are pretty neat, I'd love to see them actually be emperors children descendents. On that note though. What I find interesting with Gulliman's response to cawl implementing traitor gene-seed to loyalist primaris chapters, is that for most part, its a very emotional and maybe even *traumatic* response. Cawl points in the dark imperium novels that many of his own gene-seed went traitor, so what logical difference does it make of having loyalist chapters with traitor gene seed serving the imperium? I'm guessing Gulliman held his brothers in high regard before they went traitor. Even to the point of abstaining and shooting down the proposition Cawl spouted with anger and a threat. Just so he doesn't Tarnish the "good" memories he had with them or their sons. I think it has less to do with them being traitor geneseed in an objective sense and worrying about following the sins of their fathers. As we well know Gulliman to be a master at grand strategy and logistics. So having more bodies, traitor gene-seed or not, would be more effective for preserving the imperium, no? I mean, he did this with his loyalist brothers gene-seed and made a legion sized army called "The unnumbered sons" that were meant to get rid division and promote the founding loyalist chapters with unity under the right guidance. Something the legiones astartes didn't really make a priority before or during the heresy. Speaking of and rather, I think he doesn't want the memory of the horus heresy being cropped up to his mind again. There's a lot of self-guilt and admission with him surrounding that, of what he thinks he could have done or interacted with his traitor brothers more so that galaxy shattering event would have never happened. I also think him using his traitor brother's sons would be too much of thorn in his thoughts of his self-proclaimed issues of being a failure and not having history repeat itself under his watch if he can help it. I can see why he'd take it personal. Good video man, although i think traitor geneseed making loyalist chapters could be its own series, it was awesome you touched on these guys!😂

5:41 I've seen that pic several times but only now do i notice the "mouth" looking weird.

It's not that we can't have nice things. it's just that we dont want new things.

Every time I come back to this channel I want to play Bioshock again and I don't know why.

I’d like to think that they’re emperors children just for the idea that there’s a dude like Saul Tarvitz still roaming around

Low key, my favorite character, not at least because there isn't much information yet. I mean, imagine what would happen if The Infinite just gave them clone Fulgrim! Yeah, it MAY not happen, but I'm headcaning it if it doesn't.

There's also the Blood Ravens who are probably Thousanf Son Descendants

Just one thing though, Phoenician refers to the purple colour, Phoenicia was a state in antiquity, which produced immense amounts of purple dye, (this is also the origin of the word Punic)

Trazyn: Oh wow! A shiny Emperor's Children! (throws pokeball)

I like the 'Hi' intro. It's happier

i have a little theory about the minotaurs, which is that they are Thunder warriors or just the leader of them. just bc, of the words they use to describe them is strange. like how they like fighting somewhat alone (like a bear! not wolves like space marines!) and dislike.... everyone. And it would make sense to give them the best gear AND how they were showing up in key points in the story. like on Terra when the Primaris first showed up. How are they still walking around you ask? well during the last stories with them (i forgot the book) they losey say they 'fixed" the dying problem they had with their Gene Seed. there's more to the theory or it probably already exists... its just worth a thought.

Sense were covering chapters, can I recommend the Exorcists for Imperial Fists, I know they're like number four in most popular Imperial Fist successor chapters, put everyone already knows the higher ones, And there's such a fun and oddball chapter that they're one of my favorites.

You're videos are actually pretty good. Before I usually clicked off them immediately after I heard the intro, thanks for getting rid of it.

I love the old intro. It is special. ❤

Ughhhhh, HI! Thank you for bringing back the old intro. Makes you unique

40k content? Subscribed

Man you crack me up Arthur! Love you man!❤😂🎉

I assure you Guilliman I didn't use *wink* any *wink* traitor *wink* geneseed *wink*