It’s so great to see the enthusiasm from all 3 of them when talking about M5! M5 was by far the biggest brain back then, from what I remember they are so far ahead in the game, they can troll and still wins games.

I really like the SKT team from 2013-14: They won Champions Summer 2013, went on to win the world championship, then topped it off by having a perfect winter OGN season, not even dropping a game in Champions Winter 2014. On top of that, Faker's peak mechanical level compared to his contemporaries during that run is arguably the highest peak, such that assassins were nerfed, DFG was removed, etc.

I really hate the fact that everytime there's a stupid t1 fan twitter, they just shit on it like it's the entire t1 fanbases opinion.

2016 SKT almost also completed the Golden Road just lost domestically 3 2 to KT Rolster.

The fact that there are actually people in this chat unironically implying DRX should have been on a list of Best LOL Teams of all time 😂

It feels a little sus to criticize T1 for being favorites in 2022 but not mention that JDG were HEAVY favorites to win 2023 up til they lost.

All the classics in this episode. Emotional letdown of KT, hating T1 fans, Hating TSM, Froggen mentioned, M5 shenanigans, shitting on riot's formats, mentioning Korean exodus, and shitting on fan opinions. I can't wait to revisit this in time.

monte saying the lpl having communication issues at worlds 2015 why skt was so dominant meanwhile edg won msi literally few months before that

Amazing episode ty guys for all this amazing content, you three together always makes a great episode!

Looking back at this episode the preparation is pretty shit. Such a low quality video Their criterias are all over the place One team is good because of a tournament but some teams cant be considered because of their performance in multiple Even they dont seem to know where theyre going

This was really cool to listen to the thought process between this. Super hard thing to do to evaluate all of these teams by accomplishments, eye test, and the context at the time. Awesome job

This was an amazing episode, thank you for this! 🙂

This trio on historical stuff is my favorite, another great video boys

Awesome video guys, only you could do it! Really enjoy when Dom is present too

You guys have kept us waiting too long for another video like this. Great content as always.

Think that whole discussion on 2019 missed the mark. G2 obviously deserves their flowers-maybe the most creative team ever. However, they act like FPX was good for one tournament. They were 1st seed in regular season for spring and lost to Zoom having the series of his life. They then won summer convincingly again as the 1st seed in the regular season (only losing one series). They then won worlds after having a horrendous group stage by dictating the meta, similar to these T1 teams that have recently gotten praise at the past two worlds. Pair this with G2 completely avoiding the lpl the entire year until worlds finals after the lpl had an insanely dominant 2018, and I think there’s some concern about them actually being the dominant team of that year with different draws. I don’t necessarily think FPX was some insane team that should be ranked amongst the best ever, but I do find it hypocritical that team was consistently ridiculed throughout the video while the g2 of that year was praised as one of the best ever.

*I maintain that topping a GOAT list requires a GOATworthy peak. If you think of teams like you would a fantasy swordsman, and a monster that only the greatest swordsplay ever can beat is coming to kill you, you're going to be really fucking pissed when 3 idiots turn up with a team that averaged 91% of the greatest swordsplay ever over their entire 'life' and never exceeded 94%.* So, the solution for being the best team ever according to summoning insight is 'get an extremely favourable meta shift, 3-2 a slumping T1 and then get fucked by the same team in worlds semis'. What kind of argument is 'the stars aligned' even? Korea consistently lost tournaments in Korea for years before this worlds, T1 broke open the worlds meta, it's not like it was gifted to them like MSI was to JDG. "Versus the team that was peaking" like JDG wasn't peaking at MSI. Peaking at the right time, by the way, is a key part of being a great team. Peaking at the right time and beating JDG by being convincingly better than them at all the points they're lauded for in this video is not something that makes JDG look better. And like, talking about the pressure of being a 'super team'? What about the pressure of being fucking T1, there is none greater. Like shit, Dom is backing LPL and JDG so hard purely because of how much he hates T1 super fans, and they're every as bit as cancer to their 'fandom'. What do T1 need to do, lol? Convincingly stomping the entire LPL worlds qualifiers and winning worlds, and going 5 games with the eventual MSI winners in winners bracket finals in a meta that suited them more than any other team, while slumping, in 2023, AND being the clear best team of 2022 isn't enough to be considered better than JDG who people wouldn't even be talking about if they didn't win MSI? The over all most brilliant run for any roster ever, but not enough I guess. Even if they're obviously bigger benificiaries of the same logic that is applied to JDG to argue that they're GOATed. :Interlude to shout out to Thorin going on a stupid fucking spiel while Monte tries to establish some ground rules for the list, to ensure JDG can be best team ever in the list despite them doing nothing more impressive than several other teams in this list: Huge effort buddy ✊💦 I also think DWG 2020 are majorly slept on in this list. Does anyone actually think 2021 DWG wouldn't have done better if they remained as they were in 2020? What ever it is that makes a legendary team, that team had it and then some, and definitely had the potential to perform as well as JDG or better, over a longer time frame. As much as people love TheShy, Nuguri on Ornn 2020 was the best a top laner has ever performed, by far. It's just unbelievable how good he was on that champ, his Es were like heat seeking team wide CC spells. That from the pioneer of Klepto top lane ignore CS and just auto the enemy. So yeah, that's the gist. T1 in worlds actually looked unbeatable, not lucky and carried by circumstance. Hence, JDG can't be the GOAT team.

Did we forget when monte and dom said if rhis jdg teamdoesen't win or atleast makes finals , is massive faillure and it will be the biggest choke , this team was by far the most favourite team to win worlds , but they couldn't reach finals , crazy the bias here , but T1 are chockers , when they went to 3 internationnal finals and won one , atleat they made finals , what is Jdg excuse ??

Everyone has his/her own perspective on who is the greatest team in the world, so I am not going to delve into that. But there are problems on some of the Monte's take with respect to JDG's performance at Worlds. 1) Meta shifted during the Worlds in favor of T1 First of all, the game patch did not change in the middle of the Worlds. The same patch continued on from the start to the end of the Worlds. So the game patch was fairly applied to everyone at Worlds. So the more accurate description would be: T1 shifted the meta in their favor while JDG either failed to adjust to it or came up with their own strategy to lead/change the meta in their favor. And JDG simply couldn't become as good as T1 at this Worlds meta only shows that JDG wasn't as adaptable (as it is one of the indicators of being good at the game) or good as you guys make it out to be. Note: Worlds meta was changing every week as Keria said. If you look at T1's pick/bans during quarters, semi, and finals, their picks and team comps vary each week. So the meta was not 'shifting' but rather 'oscillating' continuously - T1 simply managed to adapt well to that constantly vibrating meta because their strength lies in having flexible picks 2) Monte is strongly suggesting that 'If this Worlds was double-elimination like MSI, JDG would have (or at least very likely to have) won Worlds. First of all, everything is probability - so I am not going to neglect the possibility that JDG wins the whole thing. But looking at how JDG was getting stomped in game 1, losing the only chance that were given to them in game 3, and losing game 4 convincingly even playing as a blue side only showed me that T1 was a better team than JDG at Worlds. Game 3 was more of a throw from T1 than JDG playing well. T1 was leading the whole time until their typical LCK throws happened after their baron. But despite throws, T1 managed to come back because they were mechanically better at teamfights. So I think T1 would go 3-1 again vs JDG in their second match-up (even after considering that this time JDG would be picking blue for game 1 after winning coin toss). If the Worlds were double elimination, I would still vote in favor of T1 winning the whole thing 70-30. +) I would still rate JDG as the best team of 2023, as they were the most consistent team this year. But just of that, we should not be biased toward them when evaluating teams at Worlds. T1 simply was much better team than JDG during Worlds. +) On a side note, T1 also played really well against JDG during the MSI. But during the MSI, T1 could not adapt well to MSI meta of Kindred-Nautilus and Jayce-Maokai, and (after going 2-1 against JDG) lost 2 games in a row because they lost in pick/ban phase. This is exactly why T1 just gave up on 'following other's pick/ban meta' but instead go with their own strengths - pick strong bot lane champs and play how they used to play well during their perfect runs in 2022 spring in LCK, which shifted the meta at Worlds. This time, JDG couldn't catch up to T1 and lost 3-1, which is much more convincing loss than T1's 2-3 against them at MSI. Also, on Dom's point of Worlds being over-evaluated. Sure, I agree. Players should not be judged just based on their performance at Worlds. But the Worlds is the most important tournament of the year. It only take about 15% of the entire year-season duration (3 months spring, 3 months summer, 1 month Worlds) but if you take into account the fame, size, and competitiveness, one should 'weight-average'out Worlds to be near 40%. (My thoughts: 40% Worlds, 25% MSI, 18% Summer, 17% Spring) Being good at the game when it matters the most (in the most important tournament of the year) is what differentiates a regular player to star players and sets the player value. You can see the same thing in football/soccer. Winning a league is important. But many view winning Euros or Champs to be much more important than winning a league. And finally, winning World Cup is the most important thing in soccer because the most number of people watch the game, and the fame and prestige that comes from winning World Cup greatly exceeds that of winning other tournaments. Carrying team in Champs or World Cup is very different than carrying in league games. So should we look at the team's entire season to evaluate their skills? Absolutely. But the Worlds should be heavily weighted in the calculation compared to MSI and other regional titles. So in that perspective, Worlds being overhyped or overvalued is normal (even from a skill evaluation point of view). If you are considering commerical and popularity standpoint, then Worlds simply outclasses all other tournaments combined

Shoutouts to the longest johns!! Glad to see monte enjoy their songs~~ The crossover with my favorite youtubers feels great

Damwon 2021 is better team than 2020 but T1 2022 is dogshit 😂

this is the moment we get sad, but later down this series we will be overcome with joy

Thorin really said that Bin Xiahou Gala Ming are forgotten player ( Wei maybe) ?

Best early Christmas gift ever along with the reflections that’s been coming out lately. Fucking banger

Thorins response to the last question is really well put. Learning how to actually listen to people is a skill that is undervalued. Get out of your own head, stop thinking what you’re going to say next or guessing what they’re going to say next. Also, every single person thinks they matter to the random people, you don’t matter to them just like they don’t matter to you, get out of your own head and relieve your anxiety

Wooo another great season!

Thorin's point on social skills was great and i liked Monte's point on discipline and routine / learning, habit building when younger makes it even easier to maintain into adulthood so this advice is phenomenal for younger people

2023 jdg benefit from the non carry top meta the whole year why they got exposed in the end 😂

DWG is pretty underrated imo, 2 games from golden road and extremely dominant worlds win.

JDG was paid and expected to win the world championship yet they didn't. They won and lost vs SKT in the two global semi-finals. They did not achieve the golden road and did not show dominance over Korean teams in their 4-5 best of 5's globally. They cannot be considered the best of all time unless you are talking about LPL domestically.

Thorin shouting out Boards Of Canada is something I never expected. Fuck yeah.

is there a fucking arguement about this topic when T1's won 4 times????

Big KRIT is a good shout Dom, there are a few more modern rappers who i still really like today like Conway. Westside Gunn and JID too

Some really good advice from that last question. Especially what IWD said at the end, what I myself should have learned way faster. If you know of yourself to be competent, you will be okay.

Thorin mentioning Fred Again was not what I was expecting from this episode

Thank god I'm not an LPL or LCK meat eater 💀, these 3 arguing that JDG is the best team of all time when T1 literally stomped their competition and them in pretty much the only league tournament that matters is never not gonna be funny 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

as long as they are consistent on other sports im pretty fine with the jdg pick. as long as they all consider the 2007 patriots the best team of all time in football, and the 2015-16 warriors the best team in basketball. imo you need to win the big game at the end to be considered the best team of all time, but i can understand the position of someone who thinks jdg and the pats are the best teams ever. as long as they think both are.

the whole exedous was such a tragady, if that Samsung episode would have stayed togeather, good lord.

Great content. Thank you.

thinking on this more, I think they T1 rosters were pretty slept on in this video tbh, especially 2013 & 2016 SKT. Also no shot IG should be above 2022-2023 T1, they were way less consistent results-wise, had a less well rounded roster, and they had an easier worlds run.

IG had a crazy ceiling, was super fun to watch them play but I'm weak to Damwon, Canyon was rank 1 in EUW playing top and mid, he is probably the best player to ever touch the game, to me they are the best team.

Faker missed 8 games, how is that missing 25% when LCK awards is decided upon both domestical and international games? It counts the playoffs too so it's more like missing 15%.

1:15:58 isn’t JDG losing to T1 who lost to DRX in 2022 also embarassing? 😏

Monte really wasn't kidding when he said he listened to all kinds of music huh

@Montecristo if you like Longest Johns then I highly recommend The Dreadnoughts, specifically their album Into the North. It's not acapella, but they have some really nice shanties. Joli Rouge is my fave

Damn I did NOT expect Thorin to mention Boards of Canada.. it's been a while since I heard that name :(

Why does it not surprise me that the real, most objective, best team/roster of all time isn't even discussed beyond minor considerations? SKT 2015, like JDG this year, had exactly one Bo5 the entire year they lost (in game 5 due to EDG's excellent draft counters). They absolutely styled on both of their 2nd place opponents (KOO/GE Tigers & KT Rolster) in Spring and Summer domestical finals 3-0, and by Worlds the EDG team they lost to at MSI got run over just as easily in Worlds '15 Groups. They had one of the most dominant Summer splits of any team, and like Damwon 2020 it seemed inevitable (and indeed was) they would win Worlds that year. All that, while Faker (and even Bengi in Spring playoffs and 3 regular season games) was splitting playtime due to Kkoma trying to preserve the team's versatility until Faker had his control mage glow-up in Summer. 2015 SKT had the same quality of JDG of being able to claw back from nearly any gold deficit (in an era without shutdown gold or tower bonuses), and nearly every player could shift their style to fit any comp and meta. MaRin spent both domestic splits quietly being overshadowed by Smeb and Ssumday, yet clowned on both of them in the two respective finals. He was the reason SKT even made both domestical finals (i.e. Maokai play versus CJ Entus in Spring semis) and Game 5 at MSI, he was undefeatable on Maokai that year and probably the greatest Rumble player of all time even considering his strong competition in that regard. Bengi was the ultimate facilitator of his TWO different midlaners and their unique styles. Easyhoon was still a very strong individual player in his own right despite a more conservative playstyle to Faker, dunking on Kuro in Spring finals. Faker needs no additional glazing for the year he had in its totality. Bang was to SKT '15 what Ruler was to JDG '23 this year, sporting extraordinarily high KDA's and still clutch playmaking when necessary. Wolf was the perfect initiator and was perhaps the only weak point of the roster that year as Bengi had yet to significantly decline until the next year. SKT 2015 is the only team besides T1 2022 to ever not finish at least 2nd place for the entire year at every tournament, both domestic and international, that they attended. Not even JDG this year could accomplish this, in no small part due to Faker once against standing in the way. All of this they accomplished during a year when China had parasitized much of the talent OGN had cultivated the year previous. It could perhaps be argued that weakening Korea made it easier for Faker to win domestically, but if that's the case, then what about Korea still finishing Top 4 minimum at Worlds in spite of losing nearly every player of their Top 4 teams (SSB, SSW, KTA, CJB) to China?

The format to MSI was nice. The patch was bs compared to what teams played in spring.

When it comes to the "Best team of all time" debate, there are SO MANY criteria like: world titles, longevity (meta-proof or not), win rate (dominance level), etc. Ppl can have different opinion about their pick, but they will never go outside of these criteria. And then, we have these three guys here decided to ignore ALL that🙄🙄, and come down to criteria like: the eyeball factor, communication issue, choke factor, fundamentals (aka, classis front-to-back teamfight), msi win (double elim ofc)...... No shit JDG is the best of all time then 😂😂. This entire critiria is tailor-made for JDG.

Great episode as always. but for what it's worth to the 59:27 point Monte made - "can a player win MVP with 25% games missed?" It did happen in the NBA but basically once - Bill Walton won his lone MVP in 1977 with 58 games played (70%), he broke his foot and came back for playoffs. Embiid last year also only played 66 so exactly 80%, Bob cousy won with 64 (78%) in 1957 too. So ye it's rare but technically possible to win MVP with so many games missed (not anymore in NBA now tho cos they just have introduced a lower bound of 65 games, so basically 80%, to be eligible). but Faker shouldn't win lck player of the year ofc, chovy was better whole year bar only worlds. the case in traditional sports does exist tho.

great vid, sad to hear it wasn't well received, commenting for algo!

I feel like all of the things applying to jdg‘s playstyle apply to 2015 skt only they were even closer to winning everything and were more dominant at worlds than jdg at their msi also if we go player for player accountikg for skill inflation i feel like 2015 skt is as good as jdg (albeit that faker hard carries cause he was just sooooooooooo much above the rest it‘s insane i mean he do youargue for as 2nd at worlds febiven? bjergsen or rookie who went out in groups? xpeke who was already declining a bit? no one was remotely on fakers level that game they lost in the finals was also from arrogance imo everyone knows they have the tigers number and they didnt care it‘s 2015 skt for me

For 2018 RNG, I also think their group stage performance was very suspect and that the writing was on the wall even ahead of the G2 match. They lost to both C9 and Vitality, and nearly lost to C9 again in the tiebreaker.

There's little more than half as many teams in MSI than Worlds. Playins are pretty much identical, Worlds has one more bo5. 13 vs 22 teams. Worlds has Swiss stage with 20 bo1s & 13 bo3s. And a normal single elim playoffs of 7 bo5s. MSI has no Swiss and just 14 bo5s. If Worlds got rid of Swiss, a double elim could work. Swiss can have a maximum of 59 games (if 2-1) while 46 games (if 2-0). 7 extra bo5s can give us 35 games.

What is with the griffin roaster ? They looked unbeatable but I don’t fully remember why it failed. I think it got labeled as choking but can’t remember

39:53 well it could compute given those mix, doesn’t work as well for taking other teams into account

BEST CHRISTMAS GIFT EVER!!! LOVE THESE TYPES OF EPISODES!!

1:05:18 - 1:05:47, that argument can be used fro JDG as well, the second they were not playing their own playstyle they became weaker. at least try to be consistent

how they talk about 2018-2019 iG vs how they talk about 2022-2023 T1 and it’s evident it’s clown central. The fact that they spent the whole T1 section speaking of reasons to “disqualify them” already shows they are a contender. Top 3 in every tournament for 2.5 years straight lol. Their precious JDG couldn’t handle a single meta shift.

Im not even a T1 fan, but these JDG vs T1 takes are VERY disingenuous. 😂 A lot of the arguments they used against T1 you could also use against JDG, but were never brought up.

I feel like the title should be "who is the best roster" not the best team. For the best team there's not much debate

The year is 2030. Team 1 (formerly known as T1) celebrates their 8th title, with faker once again silencing any doubters claiming middle aged men cant play at the highest level. The closely fought 3-2 win prevented underdogs Good Luck Have Fun Gaming from completing the Cinderella run, being the only chinese roster to feature only 2 world champions on it. As the Brazilean crowd celebrated the famous final at the Maracana, meanwhile in some dark and dimly lit room in an undisclosed cold and wet part of Britain, there sat an angry ginger bloke. He is inexplicably wearing a thick trench coat indoors despite having central heating, and is cursing at his monitor. Notepad up, he begins to write his 17th thinkpiece this year on why the worlds format sucked and we should all stop having fun. Discord rings, its time to join his third podcast of the day. Excited, he has already mentally prepared his opening monologue, but feels a tinge of sadness when he realizes that once again his arguments will fall on deaf ears.

Absolutely disagree on JDG being in the conversation. Throughout this entire year, JDG played around Ruler. 369 was placed on tank, missing on engage support, kanavi on aggressive junglers. And somehow they played this style all year long without changing much. Which is why they got beaten by T1 eventually. T1 simply placed a ward in JDG's top jungle and lane crush you and it is game over. In short, JDG is not meta proof. They are just one-trick team. I don't get why LPL fanboys place SO MUCH credit on how well a team can teamfight. To them, teamfight is EVERYTHING you need to judge if a team's good or bad. I personally watch a shit load of LPL and I do enjoy watching great teamfight, but never once did I believe that is the only way to win games. Btw, JDG is NOT the best teamfighting team ever. They are the best front-to-back teamfighting team, which is just one teamfight style out of many. If everyone are forced to play this style against each other, then maybe JDG is the best ever. But there are so many other winning strategies like poking, flanking, lane rushing, etc. If you want to the best, you gotta at least master a few of them so that you don't look like a fool when meta shift comes.

Alright boys this show is no longer unbiased and analytical one , so what now we have dom that hate Lck/T1 and super biased towards lpl , thorin just a bot that get fed lpl biased opinions , and monte as we know has super dogshit opinions and goes with the show , this shit is getting real bad , Dom on The T1 side didn't mention how strong their record 19-2 at world vs the the so called best reging in the world that has the "godly" team Jdg , and he mentioned how this eduration team of T1 is a meta one trick , but in the span of 2 years somehow forgot they won spring 2022 after going 18-0 with a compeletly diff meta , and went to worlds 2022 finals with a complete diff meta , somehow Jdg that was abusing the shit out of zeri and tank toplane meta this year , when they played against T1 this worlds with diff meta got shit on ,

Anyone who hasn't heard big krit gotta go listen to 4eva is a mighty long time. 90 minutes of straight fire. Reading comments about league is known to cause brain damage so I figured I'd comment on music instead.

I lost it when JDG - BEST TEAM IN HISTORY (Chokes Worlds being literally the biggest favorites in a tournament ever) T1 - NOT THE BEST TEAM due to choking too much I dont think T1 is the best in history but what is this insane logic?

On the topic of M5, it's pretty cool that Darien and Diamondprox still stream league

I like the narrative of jdg but they ironically lost in team fighting and clutch moments what if's aren't real and g2 got probably one of the luckiest runs ever along with drx i know its a troll when they say worlds aren't important

Felt like every time t1 get to final, faker will take out Gods and play in front of the team and be like “don’t you dare let riot make 3rd video about me losing at final”

Tsm taking a game off of ssw was like when when the KD warriors went 16-1 in the playoffs but instead of Lebron and kyrie having one of the best games of their lives it was dandy and pawn fkin around

Imagine Thorin stating that never considers t1 to be the best (I am not saying they are or are not. I am just giving an argument) is because they are fcking finals. But then considers jdg to be the best team not just this year but the best team ever. Who wasnt even able to reach worlds finals.

Dom is super based for the BIG KRIT take.

THANK THE LORD I NEEDED SOME DOM IN MY LIFE

100% agree with Dom. Texas bbq destroys Korean bbq. It's great for hanging out with people but the food is very average

SKT w Marin and Koo Tigers were both really good teams.

I love that DRX gets a (not) LOOOL

During worlds 2014 I specifically remember Monte saying something like “if you think Samsung White is good, wait until you see Blue - they’re better”. The format was strange in that we didn’t see SSB play until like day 5 and up until then, although SSW looked very dominant, Monte still had a lot of faith in SSB.

thorin and the eye test. name a more iconic duo

37:27 imho that langye’s just saying words, redundant almost, the point is in sufficiently constructed arfument

Very poor quality video, Im not even a T1 fan or what, but it when you talk about SKT 2015 and T1 2022/2023 you seem to forget to say why they were very good and on this list... You just try to explain why they aren't that good lol

1:01:01 Well, Dom has explicitly stated that he does hate T1, there is a clip of it from his stream somewhere. Ofc I don't think Monte and Thorin are T1 haters though.

If JDG won they could have cemented being the best team to be ever constructed. Losing at the most important tournament out of the 4 matters there resume has to be discounted. Maybe it just bad luck or they folded under the pressure but ur season has to be discounted just like how the Warriors 73 win season were. Just like track athlete losing at the olympics would. When you know certain event is the pinnacle of your sport that moment matters to your legacy. JDG for that reason can not be the greatest team ever.

Season 3 skt was insane. They had an aura that was like magic

Dude, you guys are so biased. Saying that the competition in 2015 was not so great, and saying that one of the reasons was because ROX tigers always choked to them and I'm like: was not BLG kind of the same against JDG? BLG never showed up against JDG, in fact, they were the ones that dominated the LPL summer.

no worlds jingdong lol best team? What the fuck

Ig lost to na half a year after winning worlds, they were fraudulent as a team being propped up entirely by their solo laners

T1 smashing the entire LPL honestly makes JDG's domestic titles a lot less impressive.

The part about JDG communication is wrong from what I have seen/heard. Ruler is the only one that doesn’t speak chinese.

I agree Chovy is the best mid, potentially the best player in the world but if you make the narrative that T1 can't be the best team because they lost all these finals but then excuse Chovy because he only disappears in some big games you contradict yourselves. Personally I don't think that either T1 or Chovy are the best in the world but definitely have the potential to be maybe next year.

Can a team that has never won a 'single' worlds be in the contest? I don't think so. I don't think JDG can get a chance.

Any version of t1 not bring the best incomingggg

I think JGD can be classed as best team ever and at the same time not depending on what you value. For example, when you look at team fights most people will say JGD is the best team ever, but I don't agree. JGD were the best front to back team fight team, but as soon as the meta shifted their team fighting got significantly worse it's the reason why they lost to T1 and looked shaky against KT. Most of the year front to back team fights were the meta, until worlds. So, can a team be classed as the best ever if they are amazing at one type of gameplay which was the same for the entire year then as soon as it changes, they looked demonstrating worse? just a thought? I would still rank them very highly.

I also think that REAL Italian food is not very heavy… Just the Americanised version of it is

Hasn't Brady won an MVP after a 4 game suspension tho?

No team was near 2020 DWG peak. JDG has the consistency, DWG has the peak

SKT from OGN Winter 13/14 was the most dominant team ever.

Crazy that this just dropped - I was just thinking about a video idea for this duo yesterday: I would love to see y’all rank the top players historically from each of the major reasons. Something like a five man 1st and 2nd team by role only for what those players accomplished in and for that reason specifically (so only Rookie’s accomplishments in LPL for example). I think you three have been around long enough to fairly give credit to players who were dominant before most people really watched league. Hope you consider this for the future!

Relative to their time, even if you account for Looper, the jg support peak in that SSW team is the most ridiculous shit I've ever seen. My brain can't put anyone over them. They are #1 of all time. I have a similar issue with DWG 2010, although they aren't reaching SSW 2014. Because unlike SSW that year, this team was undefeated since like 3rd of june 2020 or something coming into worlds. When their mid, jg top picked champions in the draft it gave you shivers thinking about what the enemy team was gonna have to deal with. And Jhin ofc. They way the zoned out drake/herald pits with that jhin ult positioning cemented their absolute control. The only real regen of the peak korean macro control style in this post 2018 game state environment that the region have had to realize that they've been taking for granted in the Faker/Samsung era. Best jg mid duo of all time imo. This JDG team was indeed a successful super team. You could say KT 2018 was aswell. Although they both failed when it really mattered at the end. JDG had the spring period over them though. Name value is absolutely insane. And only the future can put into perspective whether or not that is a solid pick. Because while Ruler is undisputed, there are players on that roster that are in a similar awkward state to Chovy, and which Smeb ended in. In that they haven't really done it on the big stage, save the MSI this roster won.

IMO the best team for every year is 2013-2017 SKT 2018 IG 2019 G2 2020-2021 DK 2022 GenG 2023 JDG/T1 They may have choked up at worlds but during those years as a whole they were the best

So these guys are discounting 2023 T1 by discounting the worlds championship itself? also JDG the "best team fighting team" just lost 3/3 team fights in game1, 2/3 team fights in game 3 and 3/3 team fights in game 4 vs T1 lol also they talked about the meta shift during worlds, guess which team led this meta shift.