Aegon is better for the realm. The precedent should be set and stay that way. Otherwise, succession wars like this will happen constantly.

Totally agree-I think that’s the point though because wars in general reign terror down on the common people ❤️‍🩹

*the afterthought here being that Aegon is very young and has a long time to really screw up the tealm(old J the conciliator and Vizzy the peaceful are exceptions to the rule more often than not for this fam I mean once ‘conquered’ setting up future and just straight day to day and such👑🤴🏼🫅🏼

@@KingSlayer_. The precedent was set in 101AC. Rhaenyra was the heir presumptive but upon the birth of Aegon he became the apparent.

I have no stakes in this game, but my question to TB fans is this: since a person's gender has no bearing on their ability, why does their age or bloodline matter? Why are Targaryens, or older siblings considered more able to govern the realm? Isn't that just as stupid? I mean, at least TG fans are consistent.

I agree with you

True they are making Team Green fully villain. I don't understand why it’s happening when RR Martin is one of the creator of this series!

TB stans do seem to have more of the most vapid audience members tho but overall leaning hard on either side is ridiculous

When you have war there were always crimes ob both side. When country X invades country Y, for sure many soldiers and leaders Y will be made controversialdecisiosn and commit atrocities to win war. But it is still country X that started this war - all further things are their fault, not Y. Same here. Greens commited usurpation solely because of Rhaneyra's gender, not because she was bad ruler. Therefore all war atrocities that Black faction will commit during war are Greens fault and Greens alone. Rhaneyra throne was stolen and if she wants to win it back, she can't be saint. That's reality of war. But moral rights is on her side, since it where Greens that wronged her.

@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 That really depends on how you view succession laws, whether a king can bend the law for himself or not.

@@KaiHung-wv3ulEven president in democratic coutry can pardon (meaning: released without aquittal) criminals - and we are not talking about dmocracy: we are talking about absolute monarchy. Head of state can always affect the way country and law work, so choosing his heir was Viderys' privilage and right. None objected when named Rhaenyra his heir. Everything that happened against her was treason.

​@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 fighting a war to defend your country from foreign aggression is a lot more morally justified than fighting a war merely to win a throne from your own half brother that you feel entitled to, stolen or not. Rhaenyra had the option to negotiate a peace, nobody forced her to go to war. Also no country Y is still responsible for its own war crimes. Just because you are not responsible for the war doesn't mean you cannot be held accountable for war crimes, what an absurd notion is that? Last jut not least, Rhaenyra's cause isn't as righteous and infallible as you want it to be.

I like all the Greens and only Daemon and maybe Corlys on the Blacks. The Blacks just aren't that interesting.

A moment of silence and lighting for the funeral pyres of: Vhagar, Dreamfyre, Vermithor, Silverwing, Caraxes, Meleys, Syrax, Seasmoke, Sunfyre, Tessarion, Vermax, Arrax, Tyraxes, Stormcloud, Moondancer, Morghul, Shrykos and poor little Morning who didn't even see warfare or revolt and yet still barely grew before dying

@@browniebeardamn, all those dragons-dead. What a loss.

Funny how Tyland Lannister was Aegon III's best friend and favorite Hand of the King.

the starks needed two years to get down into the south.... robb managed it in 5-6months🤣 hour of the wolf my ass

@@CorvoThan The Late Cregan Stark.

you literally said mysogyny then said that Rhaenyra isn't the rightful heir -_-

both are awfull

I think the problem is its critques don't build a better world ideas and comprimise does.Westeros may change but, not the stuff he critiques.

​@@VergilNotVigillegally based on the great council she can't be

​@@VergilNotVigil Her father didn't change the laws. He could have changed them to match Dorne, but that would have given them so much unrest and conflict, because of all the older sisters of other noble houses who suddenly are able to inherit before their younger brothers. King Viserys only wanted to make an exception for his daughter and her children and nothing more. She has a claim, but with not changing laws Aegon has a claim as well. And due to her having illegitimate children he actually does have a better one, because his children with Halaena are legitimate. And pointing things pointing things out isn't mysogyny, that's just how it is.

not everyone. Plenty of people I know refuse to read the book and still try to debate me (mostly my sister) and it’s *oof* sometimes 😂

@@joeysalazar98 I mean even without the books you have to realize who wins lol Arya talks about it in the show

and i wish for world-peace, my way of doing it may be as existing as viserys´ was but i still wont get a noble-prize for peace

yeah, I can't argue with that. @@CorvoThan

Not true Aegon the 5th, Queen Alysanne, Daenerys Martell, Princess Maegaell, all fought for the rights or did things to help the common folk during their Era

@@roguerodriguez8215 I should have specified that I meant in the shows.

The problem isn't so much that Rhaenys levelled the Dragon Pit (even tho it's ridiculous and should'nt have been added), the problem is that the writers themselves saw it as "heroic/triumphant" for Rhaenys which is worrying. It's their job to recognize the story they're telling accurately. If they start deluding themselves then we end up with moments/stories like s5-8 of GoT

Daemon is the one to root for

Correct. If they really wanted to do that scene, it should've been to showcase the Targs apathy for the commons. Instead, they framed it as a "triumphant" moment for the character, which is very alarming writing-wise.@@browniebear

Daenys* She was the dreamer, not Daena

Hey if you're the only dragonriding family left, you're the most poweful by default.

Exactly he could care less about tradition in fact he was pro rhaenyra as long as it kept Daemon from the throne

@@roguerodriguez8215 I mean kinda understandable considering that Daemon would be horrible as a King.

​@@chiaraschweizer5665True but oddly enough, Daemon would've been a good Hand for Viserys. They would've balanced each other out: - Viserys, passive and conflict-avoidant, sparks admiration of the ppl/nobles - Daemon, impulsive and efficient, sparks fear (resulting in respect) and loyalty (look at the Gold Cloaks). Viserys tried to be as hands off as he could but with Daemon as Hand, Viserys would be forced to keep him in check and take active duty in governing the realm with his brother. It's the perfect match that never was and could not be, such is often the tragedy in this storyworld

Exactly! Otto just wanted his family on the throne.

​@@browniebear No Daemon is a sociopath. Charismatic, but he has no emotional empathy, he only does what is best for himself and he disregards other peoples feelings constantly. Plus politics is mostly about using soft power, but Daemon only knows how to use hard power. He would be the second most powerful man if the continent and being able to use soft power is crucial for the position.

that is no wrong i dont know where to start... first of all: the valyrian were conquerors whose empire was built on the destruction and enslavement of their neighbours. So in itself aegon did exactly what you meant he should do. Second: yes not beeing worshipped enough was exactly the problem the targaryen were dealing with. Third: Where? where should i create a new empire without having to conquer the people living in an area? And please dont say the stepstones or any other uninhabited rock. Empires are built on people, not on dragons. Where ever he settled he needed somekind of peasant ready to produce food and other products. i could go on but i think it should be clear that the targaryens certainly did not lost themselves in westeros. Not when they never truly accepted the culture they conquered in the first place. Their failures come from a dangerous mix of self-entitlement and complete disregard for the conquered peoples ideals and morals, which resulted out of their valyrian-empire mindset.

Are we watching the same show???😂😂😂 because based on what the majority audience and show runners are saying there seems to be a 80/20 divide favoring TB. I agree with you on “ theirs no good or evil” but I disagree on everything else because even the writers aren’t following this logic THERE IS CLEARLY A SIDE TO ROOT FOR IN THE SHOW (team girl boss) and there is the issue. There’s no nuance.

@@youngveteran6368 STFU. 80/20? really? i hope you father is who your father is

Definitely team green over Rt.

I agree with everything you wrote but also one of the main problem I have with her bastards is that they really obvious like in the show the have brown hair and white while both parents have white hair and there father is darker skinned. Like she knows that is obvious but just thinks everyone has to accept it because she wants it that way. I mean why couldn’t she find some other Velaryon to have offspring with in order for her children and her to be accepted. This for me just shows that she lacks foresight and an understanding of the people she wants to govern. Like she creates issues for herself is willing to kill anyone who dare to say to obvious about her children and when she doesn’t get what she what she wants she cries to her father about how unfair it is.

Ah, fellow Team Smallfolk supporter.

Actually Otto suggested this but King Vissy the not true dragon dreamer was against it.

​@@ladyviking89when did this happen?

Rhaenys never did that in the book so it shouldn't have been in the show. I'm team Green and still think that scene was stupid.

blood and cheese?)

@@g23s23 that still hasn't happened yet. But regardless, Otto may be a slime ball, but he never beat his wife to death, and he never had an innocent guard killed.

No, he just instigated a war instead...

​@@DreamersOfReality technically, that was Aemond. And it was an accident. If we're being honest, Rhaenyra, at least on paper, would make a terrible queen. Daemon would make a worse king.

@@DreamersOfReality as if demon a saint

not unless you buy into the unhinged theory that Aemond and Alys Rivers’ bastard was Arya’s ancestor through the Tully side of her family. (I don’t, but that softened the blow for me a little bit 😂)

Anti-feminism isn't anti-woman. It's depicted that way today but that's not the truth of it.

@@matro2 ….👀 I can assume what you could mean but I’d also love to hear more.

Wild indeed.

It's even wilder how you're exposing your insecurity and projecting hard. TheEmpyrean is undoubtedly one of the best ppl breaking down this show and its characters. His philosophy is on par with ppl like Just an Observation, Like Stories of Old, Thomas Flight and LocalScriptman.

You are just a salty blackcels😂

Like it's really that simple

Being "named heir" isn't enough when said heir is the embodiment of breaking tradition of not just Targaryens but Westeros. Rhaenyra would literally have to be Jaehaerys I reborn for her to be accepted and even then some would still doubt her. She is fighting an uphill battle from the start and has to act accordingly to put her best foot forward but she can't even be a decent ruler, only pretend when it's convenient for her. It's the King's Word (a king who later dies and whose final words become misinterpreted to contradict his previous word on succession) vs Centuries of law and tradition. The result is inevitably conflict, but more accurately: Tragedy everywhere (Dynasty, Targaryen survivors, dragons, Noble Houses both Paramount and Vassal and smallfolk). So no, it's not that simple.

@@browniebear Westeros is only 100 years old and traditions are still being built either way what traditions did she break? Why would she have to be Jaehaerys reborn to be accepted? Cuz Otto said so? What do you know about her ruling or her policy? She hasn’t done anything so what has she pretended to be a good ruler of? The kings word is final and the king made his Choice and again by this point Westeros I’d only 100 years old so where you getting centuries of traditions… So yeah it is once again that simple… nice try tho

@@jaed3183 Noble Houses in Westeros existed thousands of years before the conquest. Therefore traditions have been carried out for centuries. The male claim comes before the female to inherit whether it's at Duskendale or Winterfell or wherever else in the Realm (as it is now known). In Old Valyria, the male claim came before the female claim to inherit. Targaryens were one of the more minor of Dragonlord Ruling houses but still they kept in line with centuries-old traditions. There's a reason Aegon I was the ruling King and not Visenya the ruling Queen. Yes Visenya held great power but it's through Aegon's allowance (similar to Jaehaerys with Alysanne). We can gauge based on her character as we have seen her, her philosophy and how she would work as a ruler. She has had practice in politics and she's shown promise but also extreme neglect and faults. Also in F&B it's shown how dreadful she managed her reign and why it only lasted 6 months. Her character faults caused her downfall; disregard for nobles unless it was convenient to her, poor tactical acumen and paranoia, disregard for small folk, reluctance to utilize strengths in warfare such as dragons even when she has superior numbers. The King's Word is final until the king is dead and/or percieved unfit to rule. In this case Viserys did not prepare Rhaenyra or the Realm anywhere near enough for her to succeed him. People aren't going to follow just because "the King's word is final". There had to be efficient plans in motion to cause the necessary shift in public opinion (similar to how Jaehaerys and Alysanne sent 7 Preachers of the Faith spreading "The Doctrine of Exceptionalism" so that ppl would accept Targaryen incest.) Whether you like it or not, her being a woman is a major obstacle in the storyworld and that's why she would have to be perceived as Jaehaerys I reborn and actually be very close to his level so that she could then be able to back up her claim and win over the Lords Paramount and Vassal. One great example is Rhaenys "The Queen Who Never Was", she may not have been at Jaehaerys's level but she would certainly have been better than Viserys or Aenys or Maegor and certainly better than Rhaenyra or Aegon II. Just because Aegon II wouldn't make a good king doesn't mean his claim isn't the strongest. Look at Aenys, Aegon IV, Aerys I, Aerys II. Aegon II's claim is stronger than Rhaenyra's since it holds tradition in tact and does not open Pandora's box for succession disputes throughout the Realm. There was no "villain/hero" no "right or wrong side", ultimately the war was a tragedy; tearing the realm apart, smallfolk caught in the crossfire as collateral and the beginning of the fall of the dynasty (symbolized through the death of Targaryens and dragons). If you can't understand that then the story went over your head and you have poor storytelling comprehension.

@@browniebear tough the king named her heir so she is heir

I think you’re forgetting the conflict around that “moral center”. Breaking an oath is a dishonorable act in Westeros yes, but they can be broken for good reason. Jaime broke his oath to protect king Aerys so he could save the people. The Baratheon’s, Tully’s, Arryn’s, AND The Starks all formed a rebellion to go against the Targaryens because of their cruelty. Even the Lannisters who family head was friends with the king at one point turned on him(though that was more for selfish gain). Jon Snow swore an oath to Daenerys and he still killed her for the greater good. Keeping an oath doesn’t make the act good or “right”. Sure maybe in terms of law but personally? Morally? No. The houses swore to Rhaenyra but the people who made those oaths are mostly dead and their descendants don’t owe Rhaenyra anything. She treats them like trash when she’s young and then isolates herself from them when she gets older. She’s a stranger to them and has done nothing to truly instill any sense of loyalty in her vassals. Not everyone is a Stark that will follow along blindly for no reason but even then as I mentioned before they can be pushed over the edge too. So an oath doesn’t matter if you’ve done nothing to warrant the keeping of it.

Your reasoning is so simplistic

The Starks during the Dance are not the same as those during the main series. And I'm not convinced Cregan Stark was that much for TB since he only showed up right after the Dance ended, and before that he only sent 2000 men south, who, while extremely experienced, is still not what a fully dedicated war effort looks like. Just look at the Hightowers for the Greens or the Riverlanders for Rhaenyra, THAT is what dedication to a cause looks like.

@@TheEmpyreanSpeaks Your reasoning doesn't make much sense here either. Because we're talking about a secession. One can make that argument about anybody who inherits the throne. "Well what have they done for me?" That's just not how Westeros works. They literally usurped the throne Because she was a girl and they saw the benefit that they could get with Aegon II being in Power. That's not how it works. If you go against that you're in rebellion. Then it boils down to what you were saying, Is it a justified rebellion? How can anybody say it is?? Something to warrant war??? Nah

@@KaiHung-wv3ul You have to look into why they showed up late. They had to stay behind and feed the North. He had every intention of showing up with as many men as possible, He just couldn't do it

Aemond killed one dude so far in season 1 n Daemon has groomed his niece, executed people with no trial in episode 1, went to war without king’s permission, ambushed n killed his wife, threatens that wife’s family, threatens to take that dead wife’s family land, killed an innocent man to fake laenor death, executed vaemond from behind, endangers the white worm in episode 2, n of course CHOKES RHAENYRA AFTER SHE LOST HER CHILD N FATHER……

The Blacks have killed way more innocent people than the Greens have