I like that!

@@user-yv4fp4do8m No, that quote’s been around for a long time. I can’t find who said it first, but it wasn’t from a podcast

dead right

Yeah this is so true. Also if the person is your frenemy or a narcissist…they’re likely going to project their own shortcomings onto you.

love this!!!

Yep! That is the truth!

Yup, this is if the person is a NORMAL human WITH NORMAL EMOTIONAL SWINGS... Not fit for personality disorders.

nice modeling of persecutor and victim all in one.

@@shiny_x3 Um, no. Not every person on the planet can be worked with in the ways Betwixt said in the video. Trump for example, would LOVE to shove you into the victim spot, and pretend you're the one in the attacker spot. You can't just curtly dismiss what nokateno said. I won't assume your intentions, but for anyone else looking/reading these comments, you might come off as if you're projecting.

I'm on the spectrum 😭 I'm usually stuck in abusive situations

​@@tapiwashendelane518 I'm sorry. I used to be like that as well. I think it has more to do with taking people at face value / trusting them when they shouldn't be trusted. When you can't read subtle emotional cues, it's easier to get taken advantage of. It helps to be with other neurodivergent people, if you can.

@@tapiwashendelane518 same.

@@alliem.182 no, this does not at all help. i am high functioning aspergers with add, and i have tried having friendships with other autistic or borderliners, because they are the only ones who can, THROUGH DOMINANCE, be in a relationship with me. however it is this dominance and abuse, that do not work for me. so i am mostly alone, but nonverbal social cues are like a different language completely.

Went out with an autistic girl. She would be quite rude with the 'just say what we see' routine, but I notice she would be triggered and upset when I did the same and made relatively minor observations. I realise this is a sample of one, but I wonder if other autistics have this double standard.

And/or conversely somehow you usually encounter really good people. Yeah, that was a narcissist for sure though.

omg that sucks, my heart goes to you and I really really hope those people will have karma

Never agree to go to a back alley alone with anyone for any reason.

​@@helenhighwater5313absolutely no argument there.

Yeah this approach doesn't seem to take into account people who are actually abusive. Just telling them what you want is not going to work, it's not safe. I think she should have added a caveat to that effect.

Yes! Me too!

Yesssss

Same here. Motel cleaning is the worst, never had a good boss

Too many people don't know what spirit is. I can't figure out what animates them.

​@@theobserver9131We all know, just very few of us are privileged and able enough (within our circumstances) to actually be allowed to breach the surface anymore and let our spirits breathe. We're being drowned en masse by the great whte (as in the social construct that demands every human being be stripped of culture and humanity and fall in line under penalty of d3ath, not the color) parasite

Right

Exactly. It's not going to work with someone who is actually abusive.

i got very good at speaking out to my abusive partner, but eventually i came to realize it did absolutely nothing in the long term. and that's how i realized i needed to leave.

Everyone is constantly involved in power relations. They can't be avoided. Even the two sides of your self are in power relations. The very best you can do is recognize it and face it directly.

I worked with someone in a management group for our building. Early on, I felt I couldn't trust her (she love bombed hard). Ultimately, I left the group- I wasn't getting paid for putting up with her antics. No one would've believed how bad she really was- she had such a nice lady facade. I did point out to others she was very controlling, so they could protect themselves a little. There was zero good to be gained from confronting her as her manipulative ways was her entire persona that she enjoyed being. I would have just gotten backlash.

Sometimes people can't leave the job or get away from bosses because they have a family to feed or no job market is non existent easier said than done. This video tells how to change a negative dynamic around.

@@nonasmith2405 Anyone can absolutely quit any job. We hold transitory things too dearly and sell our lives too cheaply. If your boss believes that you can't possibly quit, you are seriously screwed.

@@nonasmith2405 it really doesn't. Whatever you do in the short term find a different source of income in the long term. This one isn't stable.

Yes but at a certain point you have to decide if you want to stay a victim or move forward and many people want to stay in their victim role because that is the thing they know the best

You are so right! I was so afraid of 'conflict' I would never speak up and I could never have done what she did.

@JohnSmith-lk8cy I had periods of fear of conflict in my life. It's difficult to know exactly how to respond to these people, because if you don't do it the right right way you risk getting in a lot of trouble or giving them an excuse to bully you even more. I studied psychology as a hobby and that have helped me a lot. I also use tarot cards to help me understand people's real intentions.

​@@realglutenfreeWhat a convenient excuse to discard victims. Blame them for their own victimization and say they're asking for it.

@@realglutenfreebecause they don't know better. They don't know how to handle the situation in a different way, they didn't see it in happening in positive ways before. Its not their fault, but they have to find out.

In such situations, like you said leaving is the most rational thing to do. However her advice isn't flawed, It just isn't applicable to extreme situations.

Exactly. This solution doesn't acknowledge the enormous amount of narcisscists who seek out power roles to feed off other people's energy by causing conflict. This term is thrown around a lot, but if you've ever been in this type of relationship/trauma bond, no further explanation is needed. Gray rock is the only way to go.

@@arlenebrown2184 Exactly so. And leave the arena so as not to be thrown to the lions again, for their unholy amusement. However, I truly appreciated the insights into the three roles we can fall into. They're usually unconscious, so bringing them to consciousness will liberate many from knee jerk responses; and as our video host said, we are stronger than we think, and can find our own way out. The true vampires, who feed off negative emotions, can only be vanquished with a very good impression of a human-shaped void; anything they say or do goes nowhere; no reaction, no emotion, no involvement, or attachment; just pure detachment and indifference. And no forwarding address.

⁠@@arlenebrown2184People say that narcissism is thrown around but honestly I feel like we are underestimating how wide narcissistic behavior is. Maybe they aren’t all narcissists yet but folks are working hard to get there

That's literally not what the video is about though. Narcissists and other types of people youre describing can/will play all roles in that triangle on a dime, meaning that this advice doesn't necessarily apply because those kinds of people switch up so fast for power. This is talking about normal people who fall into cycles. A narcissist will be a victim then a helper then the persecutor willfully by their own choice constantly because they aren't PART of A "drama cycle" that they unknowingly fit into, like shes describing, but they literally are their own drama sphere. Without the influence of others. This advice doesn't logically seem like it would work against people very very explicitly trying to do harm or be evil because again that's not a person caught in a cycle, thats someone perpetuating their own cycle they created onto you

can u expand how you incorporate exiting or not entering the DT with avoiding narc etc. behavior, esp. at the workplace?

That is why I divorced my family. When this is what you have know since birth, it takes a while to catch on.

@@user-kt5cp7lv5e yes. i intimately understand. took decades for me to catch on.

You'd probably be surprised to know that every single person holds narcissistic traits, some just more than others. So it's good to be aware of other people, but self-awareness is also key. Many severe narcissists don't even know they are.

@@VBoo459 malignant and covert narcs have no clue about their narcissism correct, and yes we all have narc traits. i agree.

same things happens to me, but when I become assertive in line with the amount of grade of bullying then I am the one labelled unfit for work.

Classic bait and switch manipulation. ​@@zeeeeekaaaay

I started using lines like "based on your logic", "I'm sorry you feel that way", "I'm sure you're right" and whoever is 'trying' me typically backs off. I of course say those lines while looking them directly in the eyes with a lot of conviction in my eyes

This is how I survived high school. When guys tried poking and provoking me, all I could see was a caveman-simpleton who never knew the beauty and strength of sincere care and support, or of unified action between boys. I recall Stephen Fry talking somewhere about how disempowering it is to look upon others with pity.

Yes, with bullies logic and reason don't work. You need to show a healthy level of aggression. Mature talks like in this video will only result in temporary relief because they'd eventually go back in their old ways ensnaring you in an endless loop of reminding them of your boundaries. Ultimately, they will be who they are and as long as you are existing within their circle, you'd be affected by their toxicity.

Privileged

@@jgk-bp8sx Yes thank you, I do feel very privileged to be working with those I work with.

I am glad you survived and thrived. Often businesses have an employer who is the linch pin performs and understands the company, plays a critical role, knows a lot and is overlooked, never rises above. When they leave for any reason the entire business is in chaos they don't know where keys are, who to call if something breaks, how the file system works, key things management overlooks because it is a hive mind.

Did you find a good job? Or you just kept moving from one job to another all the time? I’m also in the spectrum and worry I might never stay in a job longer than a year.

@@yuegodelg from what I understand in this modern age, it is actually pretty good to not stay at a job for more than a few years. Longer u stay at a company the longer ur gonna have to do more and get paid less than the new hire

Could you imagine saying this to a narc boss while looking them in the eye? The ego bruise. They would have it out for you forever 😅

Exactly, they wouldn't even understand how it's aimed at them - they'd find a way to twist it into a personal failure on YOUR part and how what YOU did is wrong.

So true. Or a boss who's on crack (I have experienced it!).

Yeah, some of the perpetrators will ignore your attempts to be assertive or roll their eyes.

DARVO?

@@sergioalcantar3290 Deny Attack Reverse Victim and Offender

Saying the awkward, not being awkward. You are right though, I calmly asked our resident narcissist not to intrude on my personal space! 6weeks later, he's still acting like a victim and trying to isolate me from everyone. I'm just pretending he doesn't exist. Maybe when he realises the well is dry he might leave me alone, although I doubt it, because I have the upper hand, they hate that.

@@CB19087 You are right. It's not about what you are, but about the subjective interpretation of the person watching your normal human reactions to their unsufferable bullsh*t. Sorry about what that person is doing to you. No one deserves that.

Yessss

I thought so but they sometimes they just take silence as submission, admission of guilt, et cetera

Yeas and the smearing you to others is the worst!

Exactly. Some of us have learned through unfortunate experiences how to identify those who have redeeming qualities v. those who are bent on harming others.

💯

Huge congrats for building this awareness and freedom for yourself! I’m sorry to hear about what you had to go through in order to get here, though 🩶🩶🩶

Same also 55yo. Get as far away from them as you can.

I did too 26 years ago.

everything u did was correct. as a black man in a similar situation, i don't have that option not to care. i will LOSE the job, and income. then the argument, but then just go to another job...then u must explain your past, and no one believes a black man.

Oh, I’m so glad! And yes, these models (Drama Triangle in particular) have helped me to grasp what’s going on in uncomfortable social situations. Welcome to the community 🩶

The narcissist knows exactly what they are doing. There is nothing much going on that isn’t planned.

damn how do you try to stop fixing other people’s problems.. it’s such a bad habit of mine. i do it all the time to my family but i realize it probably often comes of as nagging, although i think it comes from a place of well meaning.

This is a really important point. So many victims of abuse will grow up to naturally manipulate the people in their lives so that they can protect themselves, but tragically it just makes people angry. My theory about this is that in the cycle of abuse (this video premise is actually borrowed from the triad of abuse) you have the tension building phase, where the relationship will become more and more tense until you have an abusive incident, where the abuser blows up and harms the victim, then after this you’ll have a honeymoon phase, where the abuser asks for forgiveness and shows attrition through love bombing and gifts and kindness, and then this will eventually transition back into the tension building phase. It’s common for victims to do things to trigger the explosion after enduring the tension building for too long, because the stress of not knowing when or how the other shoe drops is overwhelming and maddening; and to get back to the honeymoon phase again. Of course this is all unconscious, even though it is completely instigated and perpetuated by the abuser, the cycle itself isn’t intentional to the abuser. They are just being their sh*tty selves and externalizing rage instead of attempting introspection and real empathy. But I’ve started to think the victims can come away with this need to sort of pop the pimple of anger they might sense growing in someone, bc they have a survival mechanism that helped get them this far, and so whenever they feel threatened, they may trigger the bomb and then take cover and hide. For a well meaning person, this is an infuriating experience because it feels like someone attacking you and then suddenly changing into this pitiful grey rock mentality, effectively walking you up to and then shoving you into this persecutor role that you never wanted to be in, and it’s unfair. Anyways my mom does this to me all the time but I know she doesn’t mean it. I grew up in abusive environments bc she did too and she will hook me in with putting me in the rescuer role, helping her with her neighbor who is bullying her or talking to some scammer that’s refusing to stop debuting her account weekly for hundreds of dollars. She’s incredibly passive aggressive and negative and she makes me feel terrible bc I’m angry but she just probably senses tension and unconsciously tries to pop the emotional zit. I have to enter into a visit with her from a very specific headspace, so in a way _extremely_ conscious, because if I don’t sometimes she makes me so mad I want to throw stuff. It’s exhausting and so sad bc I know she doesn’t understand why she’s alone and there’s no way to tell her it’s because she’s emotionally exhausting. I’ve gone no contact with her many times in my adult life but ultimately I still appreciate her for being the only real source of love I had growing up and she was a dedicated mom. We’ve just both been through a lot but I was lucky enough to grow up in a world where I could self help far enough to get real help and there are just more options. She’s so far into her own schemas now and even if she won’t do it, I can’t dig her out, and I have to stop trying. It’s tough bc her bs is relentless, but I still see glimmers of promise in her sometimes

​@@elsie4802 I had to practice for a few years of telling myself to just shut up, they are not asking for unsolicited advice (not to mention that it's annoying to give advice that people seem like they are looking for, only not to follow it). But be warned, you will then move to a new area where people think you are such a great listener... Cuz you just end up listening...so as you are practicing not rescuing, also practice healthy boundaries. Or just give the advice in hopes they will go away haha

@@stargazer7512 Oh well, i could take that. Thanks!

Mostly people do this so badly it’s just a minority different form of manipulation

Except that if your dealing with a narcissist or a cluster B personality disorder they don't care.

Yes I had a boss who was truly vindictive, abusive and spiteful. The only answer was to leave. I wish I had known that sooner. I stayed there for four years and have never been the same since.

Exactly. Some people are asses even if you do what the lady in video did: politely tell them you want calm comunication etc. Just becouse you tell them what you want doesnt mean they are gonna listen, or that they even know how to have calm comunication without blame

Ah, I LOVE this explanation!! “I just need to learn my (good) power again” 🙌🏼👏🏼🙌🏼👏🏼🙌🏼

Yes, I should do one! I prefer to call it the Authorship Triangle and focus on how we’re writing our own stories, but it’s based on TED. I’ll take a look at putting something together for a future shoot 🤍

I think you're on your way. 💛

​@@Bearwithme560 True, seeing clearly and accepting responsibility for our problems is a great first step.

Oh, thank you! And huge congrats for running with the info so successfully 🤩

Ooh, great! I’m so glad to hear it!! 😍

Ps. I did the same so I know it’s true. Thanks again!

Thank you!! 😍

Thanks! And yeah, if only more people genuinely attempted to live “no drama” lives 🩶

@@Betwixt_App Yes....if only 🤦

Yes, definitely! The awkward thing = (often emotional) honesty. It sounds simple, but people find it extremely difficult to express their emotions, and usually feel very awkward about it (if not downright afraid). So I’ve called it “the awkward thing” here to highlight the fact that these convos are never easy, and just because every cell in your body wants NOT to say the awkward thing isn’t a reason not to 🩶

Because they are not being honest. By you being honest, you are making them realize that. They are jealous, they are triggered, they see what they don't have in you. You "unmask" them (even if you don't mean to and you are just existing).

Well. "Let's look at the facts calmly" isn't all that awkward, is it?))

Thanks! And you’re welcome 🩶

Thank you! 🤩