I went to visit KC Fellowship (pre-IHOP) in the early 90’s. I liked the message of devotion to Jesus that Bickle spoke but didn’t feel right about the KC prophets. I told my dad about Paul Cain’s influence in KC. He had grown up attending large tent meetings by Cain, AA Allen, Oral Roberts, etc.. Upon hearing about Cain’s re-emerging, he immediately remembered that Cain disappeared from the ministry due to a scandal. He had a young male traveling companion with him at all times and allegations were surfacing that he was in a homosexual relationship with this young man. This was back in the 50’s I think. My dad immediately debunked this notion that Cain was in solitude waiting on the Lord for a pure prophetic ministry to arise. He disappeared because of the scandal. If Bickle and others had done a little research and vetting of Cain, they could have discovered this instead of buying his false narrative. I have never heard this mentioned so thought I would mention this here!

❤❤ Thank you for not leaving behind the gifts and the works of the holy spirit. This stuff hit me hard when it came out. I used to travel from Minnesota to Kansas city for conferences. And I was drawn in. Yet something about Mike bickle , I didn't feel right about. I just didn't know what it was. But now I'm a missionary in Uganda. And have seen a lot of healing, prophecy, and deliverance. We just don't know who can be trusted or believed. All of this makes my stomach hurt. Thank you for being faithful

“I try and stay out of cults” 🤣🤣

What matters most? “A minister who loves his wife, loves his kids, and can admit when he is wrong.” Humility. Character. Amen. Such a good point.

When other pastors are so desperate to restore these fallen "leaders" practically with no questions asked...It almost seems that they believe that God can't move on earth without that person... as if God is dependent on that person's perceived "anointing". I appreciated what sweet Tammy Woods said (what a precious sister) ... how can we imagine that God cares more about these leaders anointing than he cares about his single sheep? I think we need to consider what Jesus himself said...a bad tree CANNOT produce good fruit... and a good tree CANNOT produce bad fruit. Unless someone shows me in scripture that these men could be both good trees producing bad fruit, I think we need to take Jesus at his word.

"The prophetic history seems like an oxymoron" 🥂🤣

I have the cds. When my husband left in 2006, I was devastated. I listened to all of them and I was all in. Now I see that I was in that super vulnerable place to be deceived. I didn’t know who Cain or Jones were. Now I am having to rethink Everything. Thank you for walking me through all this. ❤️

“Mike Bickle is exposing himself… literally.” 😂

Thanks! When these guys were brought into the Vineyard movement during the 80's, we all believed the story. We trusted Wimber, and he was mistaken. While he later kicked the prophets out of Vineyard, we never received an explanation. So most of us thought these guys were on the up and up. It's shocking now to find out how off things were. Many of us are re-evaluating the prophecies we heard during those years. And many, many Vineyard and former Vineyard people visited IHOPKC because they believed it was a place where God was really moving. We had no idea that Paul Cain and Bob Jones were researching people and pretending to prophesy details about their lives. And we had no idea the things MB has done for decades.

I don’t think they were ever real prophets of God. Remember there ARE LYING signs and wonders!!

There is great redemptive value in exposing the deeds done in darkness. It’s completely biblical to affirm bad fruit as evidence of a bad tree. It’s also the primary component of repentance to fully acknowledge sin so you can reject it and turn from it.

I love you guys so much!! Ima 68 year old Grandma intercessor who has gone thru different versions of church hurt. I am extremely proud of you 2!!! I so appreciate you as a young married couple with children, being bold enough to speak out and expose something that is seriously wrong and against God and His Word!! Your courage emboldens others!! You are bringing clarity to confusion and truth to what has been skewed and false!! I applaud you and thank you for your biblical approach to this matter!! You are also showing the godly way a ministry should be run. Your parents must be proud!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻❤️

Thank you for all the work you guys are doing!! As someone who's been in KC for 10 years and indoctrinated by IHOP for the last 17 years your videos have been so helpful. Thank you!!!

Thank you for your continuous investigation into MB and IHOPKC. I'm in the UK but I was greatly influenced by MB and his "ministry"😔 I even participated in the 40 day fast last year 2023 (though only for 5 straight days). I suppose the good thing that has come out of all this drama for me is that I'm more discerning & less religious💯👍🏾🇬🇧

Saying Mike was "giddy" was the perfect characterization. He would sometimes say the worst things but with a kind, giddy face. He always had a smile on. And now i realize how fake it was. It came off as weird when he would keep it up at weird moments. I remember him praying over me once and i would often tell men not to touch me during prayer due to trauma. He kept trying to grab my head and make me fall over. He kept saying "just let go". I remember feeling creeped out. The cracks showed sometimes but I was just too young and naive to notice.

It makes me feel good that Jack Deere wrote this. These details about Paul Cain are so sad. What a broken and deceitful man. This is so sad. Keep you the great work guys.

You guys are really refreshing to watch on all this. The fact that you can call out the hypocrisy while not becoming entirely jaded toward God or spiritual gifts speaks well of you.

“No redemptive value in exposing Paul Cain”?? What about redeeming and restoring the minds, hearts and faith of those who were subject to his abuse and deception? What about defending the name and honor of the Lord who died for their freedom and their souls?

I’ve been glued, literally glued to your channel since I saw it on my KZfaq feed a few weeks ago. This topic is so interesting, important and yet devastating at the same time. Maybe it’s because I’m older…don’t know, I’m going to be 64, but nothing about IHOPKC or NAR, or Bethel Church ever interested me. ( And I am a Charismatic Christian) I always felt something was off. Now all this is coming out and I’m floored! The more I hear about this, the more it sounds like a cult. You are doing a great job. I hope you continue. Blessings and Shalom.

You can not restore a false , abusive narcissist,they wear a mask to deceive and are deceived themselves. I don't believe they are beyond the grace of God but the problem is they don't think they need to repent and turn from sin,they love the darkness and you know them by their fruit.

Oxymoron 🤣😂 Your brilliant Kristina, yep Blaze you are a Blessed man. Love you two !

It sounds like Mike sent Jack a veiled threat with the mention of Ernie G. The thought is, "You don't want to end up like Ernie G. You know what happens when someone speaks ill of the 'Lord's anointed.'" Yuck!

Amen... Love your Wife.. Love your Family...Be humble.. Love God with all your heart ❤️ Jesus Help us ❤

‘Just because something is true or it happens it doesn’t mean it’s from The Holy Spirit’ I think that’s an excellent point. Coming from a charismatic point of view myself.

You guys are amazing. I love your willingness to expose the darkness in love and power

Appreciate you B & C. Keep exposing the deeds of darkness

Thank you guys for being faithful to pursue the things you feel God is leading you to.

My best friends got involved in IHOPKC like 5 years ago. Before they moved, I warned and begged them, after I ended up watching ALL the prophetic history. That was my intro to IHOP. Witnessing that nonsense and losing those friends got me, as a young teen, entrenched in theology and apologetics. I thank God for using something difficult to draw me to Himself, and I pray ardently for both healing and justice for everyone involved. Thanks Blaise and Christina!

Wow, that email from Mike Bickle to Paul Cain starting around 45:30 is *crazy*.

Thank YOU Lord for Your Light ! !!!! Yes ! I’m so wowed by the manipulation of Mike . My mind continues to be blown . Love U guys . Yall are so real and know what’s Up .

12:22 Where did Shawn Bolz admit to Facebook mining?🤔

That letter! The ramblings of a narcissist. He uses his words to control. Trying to control everyone’s actions and perceptions. Who does he think he is??

2:00 "What is the prophetic history? It sounds like an oxymoron." LOL That was funny. Good one Christina! Also at 4:00. Christina again. "Condescending." Thats the word Austin was searching for regarding Mike Bickle responding to his questions of the propgetic history. Austin was a good guest. He clearly needs room to answer questions. A very thoughtful young man who when given space provides good content.

That letter to JD could be used as a textbook on how to exercise selfish ambition cloaked as pastoring. Pure, masterful evil.

This has links to the NAR movement as well, especially in Southeast Asia. There are House of Prayers all over the world. Wimber, Paul Caine, Jack Deere came to Singapore in early 1990s. It had a huge impact on the churches in Singapore. I am unpacking all the threads of my own theological foundations . I keep coming back to the words of Jesus in John 15. How we need to remain in the Vine.

Prophetic history = oxymoron😂 You two are doing amazing work... thank you!

I’m in 💯agreement with you. I mentioned in another podcast that my husband pastor had been exposed in his double life. He was apart of a large denomination. If I mentioned the name you would know about it. His denomination coddled him while black balling my daughter in law for speaking truth. We as his wife and children have been judged and criticized for leaving him and refusing to have any contact with him. Jacke Deere seems to be describing my situation. Paul Cains assistant bailed my former husband out of jail. Hmmm. I am sickened by this horrible sin in the body of Christ. I am not bitter. I was able to fully forgive my former husband for his sexual sin, his embezzlement, his lying and his manipulation of me over a span of 45 yrs. He has now met his maker. I truly hope he repented. But only God knows. My point is so many are so damaged by this demonic behavior operating in church. God help us. I am so free to move forward. I owned my own by allowing myself to be deceived. Operating with orphan thinking. Thanks to my amazing children, his sin was exposed. They stood for truth and with me as their mother. God is good and faithful. ❤

Appreciate your content! I'd like to see you guys do an interview with John Collins. His revival history podcast is extremely thorough in going over what influenced William Branham and how Branham influenced Paul Cain, which led to NAR movements like IHOPkc and others. Again, I appreciate the scriptural perspective on these matters. Ultimately in the book of Acts, the signs and wonders were simply following the message of the gospel and the focus was on Christ and Him crucified, and not on miraculous signs - they were the means of authenticating the message and demonstrating Christ's compassion on the sick. May God help us to balance the command God gives by Paul to "earnestly desire spiritual gifts" yet not have an ungodly desire for power, but rather to see God glorified by saving people and displaying His power as He sees fit.

You two are my favorite! I always feel like your points are so right on. This one was really helpful for one who was one of the young people at KCF from 83 to 92. Great unpacking-Thanks :)

Public ministry that offends (preys upon) the vulnerable must be exposed publicly. We have no record of Jesus going Matt 18:1 with the Pharisees before He laid into them in chapter 23.

Yes, Accountability is needed! We have different days of prayer meetings at our church!

Thank you Blaise and Christina for sharing the unpublished draft that was supposed to be part of Jack Deere’s third book regrading the voice of God. While I appreciate Deere’s forthrightness in assessing Paul Cain’s character, I do not believe Paul Cain operated by the Spirit of God. Simply put, the idea of 3 different types of prophets is not supported by Scripture. The Bible never uses the term carnal prophets. It only speaks of genuine prophets of God and false prophets. Respectfully to Deere and Blaise, Matthew 7:21-23 does not teach the workers of iniquity (v 23) formerly operated by God-given spiritual power. Please reread the text. Verse 21 says not everyone claiming to be part of the heavenly kingdom actually are and v. 23 declares they never were. These people, Jesus says, will claim they prophesied and cast out demons in God’s name. Jesus’ response does not suggest they indeed did those things. If that’s what Jesus meant He would have said so but he did not. People like Paul Cain operate by deceit. Their source of prophetic information is a conglomeration of evil supernatural workings, and in the case of personal prophecies, is derived through natural means. Paul Cain was William Branham’s protege who trafficked in trickery long before there was the internet. Paul learned his craft well from Branham. As for healings, I’m convinced most of what passes today in the American church for God’s healing power is genuine. That is not to say I believe God no longer heals. Like both of you, I still believe in the charismatic gifts of the Spirit for today’s church. If people were ever genuinely healed under people like Paul Cain it was either through lying signs and wonders or it was the result of God responding to faith on the part of a sick person. False prophets and teachers do not “traffic” in God’s power. There is not one Bible verse that says this and that includes 1 Thessalonians 5:19-21. You guys are wonderful Christian people and I’m thrilled that you are doing these podcasts. You are helping a lot of people. You are spot on with your comments on the evil nature of these past and present icons of the so-called modern day prophetic movement. Prophecy is a gift for today’s church but this movement stinks to high heaven. It is not of God but false and it appears God is currently tearing it down.

Mike Bickle said this would all blow over in a year or so. How wrong he has been. The destruction of his kingdom of lies is still growing. Mike come clean and repent. We all want to forgive you. With full and complete repentance with you you can then rest in the peace of Jesus and be welcomed back into his family of believers. That is the legacy your family needs to see. Humility. Come on home Mike.

8:07 There are standards in the Bible for pastors. I guess the IHOPKC leaders ripped 1 Timothy out of their Bibles.

Can you give a link to the Shawn Bolz admission? That needs to get more air.

Just curious, why hasn’t anyone asked Shawn Bolz about what he saw at IHOP? Wasn’t he there during a lot of these times?

You said that Shawn Bolz has used and admitted to Facebook data mining for his prophetic words. I have never heard this before. Can you please post a link or provide some evidence for this?

When did Sean Boltz admit to FB mining?

It's the exact reasoning of the narcissist. Preying on what he perceives to be people's self interests.

I can't believe the leaders didn't know of the abuse.

you should check out the interview John Collins did with Awen Dunning on the channel "leaving the message". Awen was a member of IHOP when it started and a part of that "special" "Bible study" group with the original Jane Doe. She also knew Cain and Jones. She mentioned that she opened up to Bickle about some things that were later "prophesied" to her by Cain... it is very interesting and might be supportive. God bless you and keep you

Shawn Bowlz- is there an article or video about him Admitting FB mining?

I have been listening to your videos, quite frankly, because my walk with the Lord (since 1975) has connected me to many of the subjects of your investigations. I move in the prophetic, but I have never had any leading to follow the ministries of the Kansas City prophets or Mike Bickle. I could go on and on, but right now, I wanted to share what I listened to today. I listened to John Paul Jackson’s message called “the perfect storm”which was given at iHopKC. If you haven’t heard it, you need to. Considering what was going on in the ministry….John Paul Jackson nailed the sin issue. I can only wonder if certain leaders were squirming in their seats. He also nailed so much of what is going on in the world right now. The video is on KZfaq. Check it out. I guess you could have been there when he spoke!

My favorite channel rn

Sadly we have elevated gift over character for far too long.

Thankyou for helping us process. The honesty and authenticity is so so so refreshing and life giving, it’s helpful and points us to Jesus. God bless you both for your faith

Where can I find where Shaun Boltz used fb to do prophecy. I know someone who is planning on attending Bethels ssm

“The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy” Rev 19:10 No Jesus no prophecy

WOW!!!! This THIS is how liars lie! This is what true watchmen (Jack Deere) endure when they expose and warn! This is how satan (in Paul Cain's life) can masquerade as an angel of light. (2 Corinthians 11:13-15) This should cause us all to examine ourselves and repent for anything we are being deceived of and pray for revelation of truth! Deception continues to be rampant and we are warned about this in Matthew 24:4. Take heed!!!

“ you are bitter “ ahhh… that’s what my pastor said to me for asking h questions. Utter and angry because I’m not getting my way and he told everyone on staff.

And in regards to Joyner's restoring Todd Bentley, which happened very quickly, Bentley went on to more egregious sins not just with women, but young men.......

Thank you!!

I appreciate this young couple's wisdom. They are very balanced in their discussion of spiritual abuse. I wish I'd had as much wisdom as they do when I was their age. Back then, I was in a church where there was spiritual abuse happening, but blissfully ignorant about it. And it was only last year that I finally realized that the first church I was a part of after getting saved in 1972 was not only into the discipleship error. but also an offshoot of William Branham's cult. Duh! But I got very blessed there by the worship songs we were taught, which Holy Spirit often brings out of my spirit to edify me, and there was some good teaching among the false. I think the best thing I ever heard was right at the beginning of my walk with God when my pastor, Ern Baxter said, "Get to know the Bible really well and examine everyone's teaching to see if it lines up with the Bible, including mine." I enjoyed Blaise's quip near the end where he said that when he read someone's letter exposing some minister's errors, he laughed and said, "Oh, he's bitter." They are so right that people should not be dismissed because they are still hurting from abuse. It takes some of us a long time to get over it. Like me, but all that time that people were annoyed when I talked about the past, I was putting a lot of work into sorting through what happened and trying to forgive. Bit by bit, year by year, I hated my parents less and loved them more. Finally, I had only a little bit of bitterness towards my mother, but even that was so heavy and I said to the Lord, "I am so tired of carrying this." And just like that, He lifted the rest of it off of me. Wow. It sure feels good to not be angry at her anymore, though sometimes in my dreams, I find myself yelling at her, then I know, "Oh, there's still some there. Well, please take that away, too, Lord."

Where can I find the info on Shawn Bolz FB mining? I didnt know that

Stephen Deere’s substack article, ‘IHOPKC Figure Aided Other Abusers, Sought to Buy "Forgiveness" shares the tragic story of his brother Scott’s death and Paul Cain’s bizarre advice and statement to his father, Jack at the time. My heart goes out to Jack and his family. So much pain in his life. Then he recently learns of Mike’s colossal betrayal.

Thanks for your post people need to know the truth

1:13:04 well said, Blaise. For me though, I'm done trying to reform and help ministries that are way off course. No more benefit of the doubt. No more excuses. Show up doing things properly or I'm out.

12:17 "Shawn Bolz has been outed for Facebook Mining and admitted to it" - Can you please provide citation?

We can seek the Lord and find the Supernatural. And we can seek the Supernatural and find the Supernatural. Externally, they look very similar. However, one will lead to "Well done, good and faithful servant" and the other will lead to "Depart from me, I never knew you". We, as believers in Christ, much be sure that we are seeking Him, not just His works.

Thank you for digging for the truth and warning others. It is so good to see you share your expeeience also Blaise. My prayer is that YHWH uses you two to set many others free from these cults. They are popping up everywhere! We are definitely moving quickly towards that great and terrible day!

So many of us have been affected by what has happened at IHOP. Even if we were never a part of IHOP, the teachings and prophecies have permeated the Charismatic churches. Many of the beliefs concerning the end time revival, signs and wonders, spiritual authority, the generation of the manifested sons of God, and the second coming of Christ have shaped our lives. The deep desire to give ourselves completely to God to be used greatly by Him runs deep in our hearts. The eager looking for the time of fulfillment captivated and looking toward those that would lead us. These beliefs are older than Mike Bickle, but we see them now coming together at IHOP. It seems to be a good time to look at the fruit and to examine our own hearts. These teachings hang together and influence those that follow them. When an authoritarian person comes along, the followers are groomed and susceptible to spiritual abuse. Thank you Blaise for stating that we should be looking to Jesus Christ. He is the one who died for us. He loves us, forgives our sins, and gives us life and salvation. May we ask His forgiveness and look to Him and His Word.

I was discouraged (but not surprised) to hear that Shawn Bolz admitted to FB mining. What was your source for that info? I couldn't find one

Okay wait I need more info on the Shawn bolz thing. I used to listen to him but the past few years it seems like he just covers every base with his prophetic words and some of it is just extremely obvious stuff with the economy so I’ve been sus

This should be used in a textbook on narcissism

Well, it's a pretty good chapter about Paul Cain, eh, finally telling the Body of Christ about the wolf under the sheep's clothing. Thank you, Jack Deere. You are a dear. The Body of Christ is entitled to know the truth, instead of being sucked in by the endorsements of Paul Cain's "ministry" by those who piggybacked on it.

Among other things, Bickle might consider this, an economy of words.

Please do a show(s) on Bob Jones as well - and thank you for bringing this info together

Very helpful. Thanks for speaking truth

The church as a whole has had a history of elevating gifts above fruit. Gifts are given "without repentance" (Romans 11:29) but fruit is cultivated. God is tearing down the altars/platforms of man and showing us what is REALLY important to Him. Fruit > gifts

THANK YOU JACK DEERE!!!! THANKS FOR TELLING THE TRUTH!!!

You can have an amazing gift from the Lord and because of a lack of repentance eventually be given over to a spirit of divination. 2 years ago I taught a class and I asked what’s more important character or gifts? I used Cain as an example. Isn’t the answer obvious?? I’ve always had the utmost respect for Jack Deere .

In Japanese the word for sin can also mean a crime. I consider these prophets now to be criminals in that they were doing things that were illegal ( sexual involvement with minors, fraud, lies). We need to start recognizing that secular organizations have to hold their workers legally accountable and the church, who are meant to be “ salt and light” are not doing that. I’m deeply grieved but I believe God has been exposing false foundations.

First of all, I love you two! I thank the LORD for your testimony!

I don't know how you managed to get through this guys! But, thank you for all that you exposed here. It took me 2 days to get through the information on this video. I was overwhelmed with anxiety and grief. The only question I have no answer to is "were these men ever really called by God or even saved at all? I can't imagine being taken in by these men. Again, thank you for being courageous enough to share.

Chad Norris was recently outed as well. I didn't know about Shawn Bolz.....so sad that this is happening

Die große endzeitliche Verführung dieser Prediger und Propheten.

Fascinating series regarding what was happening at IHOP KC. I’ve seen almost every video you have produced. Excellent work. Would you be able to point me to any references regarding William Branham and Sean Bolz and their false prophecies? Studying the names and addresses of people in the churches where they were preaching? I have never, ever heard that before. That was very interesting. I first heard about William Branham in a book from many years ago called “God’s Generals“. I thought he was a true man of God…

Oh my goodness, Bickle's email is like a master class in manipulation. I wonder if he has a template he uses for these types of exchanges. The real lesson, however, is this is what it looks like to love the praises of men more than the praise of God and do whatever it takes to keep the former intact. Truly frightening!

I love you guys.

That letter! His whole motive he is pushing is “protect your reputation and mine.” Smh yuck

It makes me so mad hearing the level of arrogance in that email.

What im surprised about is that "this" is what pulled him out of hiding to correspond.....and has still NOT repented, confessed shown humility ! Ehhhhhhhh

Much of the prophecies of these guys are divination and are occcultic in nature. Just because someone prophesied and it was true that this is the persons name and his address and other personal details are spot on DOES NOT mean this is of the Holy Spirit. Discerning the spirits is Crucial and much much needed.

Good work. I left the message (founded by Branham) last year. These false teachers should be rebuked by true believers in Jesus; as their teachings have caused many problems for people. This is a simple matter of right and wrong.

I can't help but think this must be similar to what it was like for Joseph Smith and the birth of Mormonism. It feels like we are watching the birth and evolution of a cult that has gained a foothold on a portion of the body of Christ.

1:12:05 last one 🏁 great podcast guys! I remember a raging homeless man in California, no one was wanting to talk to him, and I got in the question as calmly as I could "Why are you so angry?" and I'll never forget his response. "THE PAVEMENT MAKES ME ANGRY!!" and I was like wow, yeah maybe we paved a bit too much of nature for the world's mental health 🤔 was he bitter? was he angry? Uhhh, likely. As you said though, didn't change the truth to be found 💯

This is just so eye opening… since all this came out I’ve kind of left off listening to “famous preachers” that I don’t know… I had a dream YEARS ago where Mike Bickle was so TIRED…as I remember, it had a sense of him operating in his own strength. it felt like it was from God but I pretty much wrote it off bc surely Mike Bickle was right in line with God, I couldn’t imagine him being off in a significant way. I never picked up on insincerity at all… part of me still really thinks he was actually sincere.

I am so grateful for you guys. I am a prodigal and I left in the first place bc of this crap. Also notice the focus is never on the victims healing and recovery, but always its about " the talent ", its really the total opposite of Jesus and His heart....

Wow. All these horrific revelations about all that Paul Cain did just swept aside by Bickle. No sympathy for what Jack Deere or others went through. Instead he tried to intimidate Deere by basically saying he would ruin his reputation. Unbelievable. And his email was all about ME, ME, ME.

"Mike is still sincere". We have to understand that this type of "sincerity" counts for nothing in scripture. One can be sincere, but sincerely wrong, or in other words deceived. To cloak unrighteousness and sin with the word sincere is a grave mistake. Scripture talks about "godly sincerity ". There's no godly sincerity in this case, but loads of deception.