Just discovered this channel and it's hilarious watching them now after seeing the toilet fire of season 8.

Yeah I love how no one thought it could get so much worse but hey they subverted our expectations

@@ryanmcclean7394 Oh my sweet summer child

Hold my Starbucks

*"Hold my Arbor gold..."

Yes. After season 5, it went from being a properly written TV show such as the Wire to a cyclic and illogical show such as Smallville.

@@agentK1896 yeah s1 - s5 was amaizing then s6- s7 was alright... then came s8....

Dumber and Dumber infected the characters and made them more and more stupid as the seasons go by.

@@grumpyoldtroll5676 they just made them one dimensional, but the whole reason the show was good because at the start they weren't one dimensional

Jon was dumb before lol

I just started reading the books, and I’m really happy that I’ve done this. That is the real story. The show’s got NOTHING on the books.

Fabian Kirchgessner totally agree

@Fabian Kirchgessner It's almost like someone else wrote everything.

They dumb every character down to their relative intelligence. The intelligence of the characters is relative to the writers' intelligence. D&D intelligence * X = George RR Martin's intelligence Any character's intelligence in later seasons * X = Said character's intelligence in the books X is the same for both equations.

To be fair, it isn't hard to take out a loan. That's a pretty bad example of him being smart. I believe they even state in the books that the interest rate is going to cripple the night watch for years, so it's not like he negotiated a good deal.

I dun wan eht

@@firasasiri9136 spoilers!

You ah my qeueun

Muh queen

Muh qwuehhhhhnnnnnnn !

Nah hbo did a scene were he said goodbye to snow but they cut it cause it cost money for cgi

Poor Snow, Jon will probably feed him to one of Dany's dragons soon.

Seriously?

@@redmilo92 r u talking to me or ur man

The shows budget certainly didn't forget the wolf, and that is why it is gone.

@fane babanu thats how you loose the soul of the series. Gane of thrones only got popular becuse it was so complicated

Yes. Everyone is terrible. To me Jon Snow is the worst, then comes Arya, Tyrion, Jaime, Bronn, Euron and the Sand Snakes...

fane babanu in saying that, the nerds are loyal whereas the retards are fickle. That’s how Star Trek has survived and flourished, despite being a cancelled series back in the 60’s Never underestimate the power of the nerd fandom;-)

@fane babanu how about doing quality work or trying to adapt a masterpiece as faithfully as possible to build something great?

@fane babanu I'm certain the show producers already have lots of money.

It's kinda depressing that thanks to later seasons I almost agree. The line that encapsulated the wildlings' foolish bigotry that cost them multiple battles and thousands of lives is now simply and unironically true outside of the wildlings' narrow-minded worldview.

Nah it's his personality, or mayhaps both!

She’s má queeeeeen! Ei dun wan ih!

@@KaiHung-wv3ulhe’s a total retard and weak character…..plain stupid and boring

d&d: "Ser 20, man. You gotta luv im".

@@squashedeyeball I love that joke

@@emiliocamachoerice6380 Ramsay became a classic villain sue in season 5 before being rewritten as villain idiot at the end of season 6.

@@alanpennie8013 true dat

this numpty ideas is taking the piss. but he has actually made a few $s at all the clicking on his wind up heading he should have called IT jon snow is dumb and more intelligent than me, you got to be a fool not knowing that he is acting how hes told to WHAT A COMPLETE GIMP

😂😂😂

Yep... all he had to do was give Dany some D.

It destroys everything that has been building up for 8 yrs. Its mind boggling to me

I started a reread of the books last night and was immediately blown away by how perceptive and intelligent Jon is in the first few chapters. And that’s before all of his growth in the Nights Watch. Show Jon is such a disappointment.

@@mattfoulgerBC Same here. I was super skeptical of the books, but I started reading Game of Thrones last week and I'm utterly blown away by how much more personality and feeling Jon has in the books.

@@anthonyplanzo1082 This right here I agree with. Jon was ultimately destroyed by the end. I was crying for him in episode four when he's speaking with Dany of his parentage and later his siblings. His entire attitude to me was like watching Aqua-Man drown, we were seeing shit that shouldn't exist. Seasons seven and eight version of Jon shouldn't exist. Like...what the hell?

Just get him to do his twirly thing with his big sword, all the girls love that.

In the books he makes big mistakes, but we can see why. In the show it's such the stupid stuff we see.

Jacob Sailor he’s the kid who tells the teacher they didn’t collect the homework, yet forgot that he didn’t do the homework himself.

Italian Waffle LOL

@@italianwaffle5592 It's okay; he'll just get out of detention like nothing happened.

This is awesome! Especially because I was that kid.

Jacob Sailor 😂😂😂

OMG you are a genious. I never knew that

water isn't wet, it makes other things wet

He was always dumb.

There’s no denying Jon Snow makes some utterly moronic decisions, but I stand by my opinion that Sansa was also partially to blame for the BoTB fiasco. If she had let Jon know her plan in advance, there was a possibility that a bloodbath could have been avoided. I mean, all those soldiers including Jon, were all risking their lives for Sansa. The least she could do is tell them the truth and not hide her genius plan from people who are probably going to die for her.

@@janhavi1977 the only thing that would have changed then is that the knight of the vale also would be caught in Ramsays death trap thanks to Jon

I still say the bells is worse, that episode murdered any interest I had in the show.

jsa1993 I’d say the long night was worse bc they killed world of the show but the bells killed 8 seasons of character development

@@naimaahmed9730 I personally never cared for the White Walker plot. The Night King always seemed to me what he turned out to be in the end: a mindless generic zombie that wants to kill people for the sake of it. I never found that interesting, I loved Game of Thrones for it's complex human characters that can think, betray, plot schemes etc. Not some entity that was born 100% evil and just wants to kill everyone around him. Honestly I cheered when Arya killed him, I knew perfectly well it was really dumb and made no sense but I was so pleased that this plot was finally over and we'd have 3 episodes focusing on what I love Game of Thrones for. Oh if only I knew of the horrors awaiting me...if only...

@Niranjan Rajesh I have read the books and my opinion on the white walker plot did not change. To me it's just an annoying distraction from the interesting conflicts going on between the human characters. I simply have no interest in mindless zombies, that's what they were in the show and that's what they are now in the books (so far). I know that it's a huge issue for the characters to deal with (and having them all killed off so easily like in the show would make no sense), I just don't find it interesting. I have hated this plot since the prologue of season 1 and continued to hate this plot from season 3 onwards. It was a boring waste of time and I ended up hating Jon Snow's scenes because of it. The night king hasn't even been introduced in the books, in the highly unlikely chance George RR Martin finishes the books I'd be surprised if he's anymore interesting than he was in the show. I'm sure it'll be more difficult to kill him but hopefully George RR Martin doesn't drag it out for too long.

@Niranjan Rajesh As I say I watch game of thrones for the interesting and complex human characters that can scheme, betray, think for themselves. On the other hand I watch something like Terminator 2 Judgment day because I'm intrigued by the threat they're facing, what the characters (and the world) could lose if they don't act. I'm sure that if halfway through they added scenes about the election or something I'd consider those a boring waste of time.

Yeah, like Ned Stark, Robb Stark, Cersei, Dany, who were also not stupid in the books. Suuuuure.

Jon's already stupid in the books

@Frank Castle I disagree, In my opinion Jon is pretty stupid in the books too and has some of the worst chapters also. Just reading them back makes me realise how outdated the Jon chapters feel today

Yeah, Jon made some bad decisions in ADWD that realistically led to his downfall, but I don't believe they were truly stupid. More in the line of Ned, honorable to a fault, and like Mormont says, led by his "noble heart."

I thought book Jon was quite stupid, but it seems the show managed to make him even worse? I did not like Jon snow at all. He has his moments in the book but he's still juvenile and impulsive.

And his smiling

@Frank Castle about that, I like him being rhaegar and lyanna's son, what I wouldn't like is if he is the prince that was promissed (sory about my english)

Mandy Fleischer while I like the idea of Jon being a Targaryen it would have meant that much more if he was Ned Starks bastard and became king of the iron throne as Jon snow the bastard king.

AGREED. His whole intrigue to me was that he was a bastard who earned all that he got, like becoming the Lord Commander. It wasn't because of his family name, but because people thought he was a good leader. By making him the rightful heir all along, it erases his entire character build up of not technically "deserving" any titles, but earning them nonetheless. If they wanted to go the R+L=J route that's okay, but WHY have it so that Rhaegar annulled the marriage? It makes Rhaegar an even bigger asshole (I've always thought him and Lyanna were foolish and selfish, but annulling your marriage when you have children?), and it also just unnecessarily tries to force the idea yet again that Jon's supposed to be the one that all of us support. I honestly hope he doesn't end up on the throne, even though I do like him, because this whole "rightful heir" thing just seems like a stupid way to appease the fans since he's such a popular character.

@Frank Castle actually, Jon could be the product of R+L and not be the rightful heir because the show conveniently has record of a one sided divorce request by Rhaegar and aother, or the same, for a marriage with Lyanna. The books merely imply that R+L happened fully and that Jon mmight be the end result, but without a marriage it would still make him a bastard and therefore the exact same thing as before just with an even better bastard name.

@Frank Castle well all clues so far tell us that being this chosen one in particular will not be very fun for those involved.

The first seasons could have been a lot better(They just ignored a lot of material). However since you have an interesting plot line to follow it was fine. D&D have been ruining the world of ice and fire since the beginning and now that they got no source material they show their incompetence in full.

Thranduil 82 The character behaving intelligently in the last season was, amazingly, Cersei.

When the books ran out D&D became actual writers (which isn't really their forte). Which is why we'll never get the rest of the books. As for John, as far as he knew his whole family, other than Sansaa is dead, so he was tired of fighting, and Winterfell never really felt like home except for the rest of the family. Keep in mind, Cat pretty much threw him out when Ned left for K.L. As for the B. of the B., had Sansaa told him about the Veil being hers for the asking, things would have been extremely different. So, does Jon do stupid things.....yes, but thinking about his entire character, they make an odd kind of sense.

@Frank Castle I do agree....if they had done the show like the books.....we'd still be in Season 1 😏. I'm not sure any TV adaption, or even movie would have been able to keep with the books.

Tyrion and Petyr Baelish are also examples of characters behaving stupidly.

with the power of feminism and stronk womyin

@@mindfortress105 It amazes me how stupid people have become after episode 3 this season.. Did you really believe in warging dragons wolves three eyed ravens a wall made of ice by men? Really?

@@ozking842 its not about that tho, its about a sense of disbelief regarding a character's safety. If a character survives things that they otherwise shouldn't have, people no longer feel on edge if there is a fight scene or danger scene because.... they have plot armour and cannot die.... Its entirely different to comparing it to the fantasy aspect of the show

@@GSDII1 It's called TV.. I myself did not agree with the futile death of the NK but it's TV.. Also the battle of Helm's Deep was better than this..

@@ozking842 well TV is shite then

pretty normal for people without a good understanding to repeat their points

I wouldnt call you an arrogant prick, but I would call you a blinded prick. Jon was right to bend the knee, It made sense because Dany compromisd with his dumbass, saved his life and sent her armys up north. Its simple really, there won't be a north without Danys armys or dragon, the apocalypse on its way.

@@thetruthwillsetyoufree4827 She already said she'd fight with him before he bent the knee, so he didn't really gain anything from it.

@@thetruthwillsetyoufree4827 agree Dany also supplied the dragon glass making the weapons possible too. But I don't believe she would care about the North that's Jon's plot armor device.

The Petyr Baelish I know would never have even been in that position in the first place. At least a couple of teenage girls, one of whom he taught everything she knows and the other who has been living like a wild animal for the past while, would have no chance against the master manipulator. This guy was winning a game most people didn't even realise they were playing. No way was he undone by Scooby and the Gang. I can see him being potentially foiled by some unnatural stuff, such as Bran's visions or, more likely, Arya's ability to switch faces. But to just be out-snooped? Nah. #NotmyLittlefinger.

@Brazul Blint psh, what you could see of it. That shit was dark, and not in the good way.

I'm from an even farther future, and GOT season 8 episode 5 happened.

@@Rienafoutredusurnom i can't wait what the farthest in the future would say... Haaaaayyyy

@Panama Jack 🤣 best spoilers

@@hp8087 I'm from another dimension and episode 6 happened, bran well he has emotions again like villain 🤫

Vioozie littlefinger you mean the guy who died the same way ned Stark did

@@alexal8088 Ned didn't have time to gurgle.

@@philuhhh Right but is it George's Jon that's dumb or Dumb and Dumber's Jon that got dumb?

This is the way

did the book series end? what happens in the end?

@@syedamaryam7223 the books are not finished yet. The last two are still being written by Martin. At this point I think that the last will never be finished.

@@GodUd6589 atp he just waiting to his time to end

I don't even think Dany is a Mary Sue, she has a dark side to her and makes loads of mistakes, unlike the golden boy MR perfect Jon snow

Queen Cercei True, true! Her making mistakes and dwelling on them makes her more interesting to me... I notice the double standard so _painfully_ when the fandom criticises Daenerys for being perfect when literally the same fandom compares Jon Snow to JESUS(A PERFECT figure) and he is known as the *Song of Ice and Fire* and Azor Ahai all the damn time by the fandom... A perfect figure does not fit in this story... Is being a perfect flawless character bad or not to these people!? Is being perfect bad only when the perfect person is female? Is it bad only when the perfect person a character you HATE? For me, a perfect character is TERRIBLE all throughout... A perfect flawless character is just terrible writing... 🙄 Some say that Jon had a hard time fighting monsters and stuff... Well...Daenerys had to rule a city and travel through harsh conditions... If it were easy, everyone would be doing it... George R.R. Martin said that *A Feast For Crows* and *A Dance with Dragons* focused on the hardships of ruling, whether you are a man, a woman, a bastard, a good person, a bad person. Ruling Meereen, King's Landing and The Wall is hard for anyone...and no one can do it well despite being a good person... So, yeah... Jon is a perfect Snowflake... ❄

@@ClaireYunFarronXIII like I already said, Dany is my favourite character in the books. Her chapters are some of the best, she is presented with tests of her values, her storyline focuses on her struggle within herself and her self sacrifice she's willing to make to achieve peace. It's about how ruling is inherently difficult and problematic. In my opinion ACOK is probably one of if not the best and her HOU is easily the best chapter in the books. I do like show Dany alot but I feel like her story was rushed and sacrificed for the lesser characters like Jon snow the hound Bran Sansa. Cercei is my girl in the show, I don't like Cercei because she is a good person, i know she isn't. I like her because she is a good Villian. And for people to say Dany is a bigger villian than Cercei, they seriously haven't been paying attention lol. Book cercei is completely crazy and I just can't relate to her at all , but in the books i love Dany character , she is off the charts. I hate it when people attack Danys character too, I dont pay attention like I used to.

@@queencercei4207 how can you say he's a golden boy who doesn't make mistakes in this comment thread but *then* go on to say he's an idiot in your own comment. You can't have it both ways, either he makes a ton of mistakes or he's perfect in every way.

@@MarcAlcatraz Off course I can have it both ways. Jon acts like a Gary STU when it suits him, but when things don't go his way he loses his head like a idiot.

but again dug A HUGE HOLE through the hill... Don't know how but did it..... And so fast.... whaaat? With what too?? Hands? oh, maybe Dragons sneaked upto him and helped.... F**k that!

Season 7 was a mess, characters were teleporting all over the place. In the older seasons it took a few episodes for a character to move from point a to point b.

@@MadOrange644 Ok but in defence of the show they don't have time for that anymore. And I don't think it's much of a stretch to imagine Jon leaving Winterfell in E02 and arriving in Dragonstone in E03 for instance, we don't see time passing because we don't have to. They took a ship to get there, the journey was uneventful, so let's cut to the chase. I do think people complain about this a little too much. However, Daenerys leaving Dragonstone and arriving beyond the wall to save the day in the very next scene was unforgivable!! The reason being is that there wasn't enough time for Gendry to get back to the wall, send a raven to Dany, and Dany to fly North, barely any time had passed during the episode. Ugh, just the absolute worst. I can forgive the teleporting in cases like the one above, but all logic went out the window there.

@@MrSpaceRaptor in defence of the show? They straight up don't want to put time into it, they have the resources and time to do it

And didn’t take the dragonglass to the expedition past the wall lol.

couldn't agree more and the idea that people believe that is frightening

Leo of Red Keep I believe that’s not the case. After all, there’s a lot of really intelligent, politically savvy good guys on the show. It’s just that for D&D, honorable=stupid and the Starks has always been “honorable fools” to them.

Thats the modern SJW view. smart and successful people are automatically bad. if you are a bum you are automatically a pure soul and a good person.

How are they dumbing him down for Sansa when they also dumb her down at the same time? Or when they have Lyanna Mormont basically lick Jon's feet while being completely dismissive of Sansa? The problem is the terrible writing. They are being feminist while also being misogynistic at the same time. It's the conflicting messages in everything they write. Arya spares the Lannister soldiers because she sees they are just guys forced to survive who want to go home to their family. 3 episodes later Dany burns and kills hundreds/thousands of these guys and we are supposed to cheer.

They think they're making female characters look good but they made everyone dumb downed and frustrating to support

@@blackflagsnroses6013 Its a Pretty worrying trend in my opinion.Not only in GoT but in other franchises too.First of all Star Wars of Course.

Every character is dumbed down

It was not just Jon who was dumbed down to make Sansa seem smart. Littlefinger’s character was butchered as well.

Me too.

Sameeee

We still have the books

@@gerarquiaFM yeah sure, Martin is never finishing those.

At least he killed someone important hah.

And actually got worse...

Fuck D and D. They ruined Jon's and Dany's story and wasted all of the white walker Storyline as well.

pennywise Danny was always trash but my boi Jon 😕

They DID dumb down Davos though. There is ZERO reason why Davos is so loyal to Jon. Hell, when the most important person in Davos life, Shireen dies, Davos doesn't even seem to care (until WAY later) and randomly becomes obsessed with Jon and resurrecting and following him. Also they mellowed Ramsey MASSIVELY from the books

And seriously... Breastplates covered in leather? Where did they get that from? The only type of breastplate that's metal sandwiched between TEXTILE (leather is only used for fittings) is Brigandine and coats of plate, and on plate the metal is oiled to protect it from the elements, and for the cold the gambeson you would have to wear below plate to absorb blunt force would provide plenty of insulation from the cold

They also MASSIVELY mellowed Ramsay if you have read the books

@@ben1ben2ben1 Yea the episode after Jon dies Davos is non stop clamoring to reassurect him and I'm just like.... Wait why do you care? You barely know this guy. And then he's completely loyal to Jon from that point forward for really no reason.

Arya is not a psycho she is a trained assassin. And many countries today use children as soldiers, spies and worse. How come nobody complains about the little birds and what happens to them when they get old?

Why? Just because an author is intelligent it doesn't mean he'll want to write characters that are intelligent. I think Jon should be dumb.

D. Bergkvist Jon is far from dumb in the books. The show runners dumb down every character and every plot line to make it convenient for them to progress easily

@@baxter3723 He is stabbed because he is stupid. His subordinates tell him repeatedly that they disagree with his actions, and at one point call him a traitor. What does Jon think they do to traitors?

D. Bergkvist Killing your LC is treason and killing him is the dumbest move of all. There are thousands of Wildlings + Queens Men that support Jon killing Jon is suicide for themselves and likely the NW unless Jon can salvage the situation.

@@baxter3723 Maybe they are stupid as well? So?

You’d probably like Preston Jacobs then

Yeah but the show didn't like stannis I mean he killed is daughter for reasons unknown to the audience

@@JT66125 just be aware that the author disagrees with you. "And it is important that the individual books refer to the civil wars, but the series title reminds us constantly that the real issue lies in the North beyond the Wall. Stannis becomes one of the few characters fully to understand that, which is why in spite of everything he is a righteous man, and not just a version of Henry VII, Tiberius or Louis XI."

@@JT66125 so the random average fan of the series, a Jon Snow fan, knows more than the author himself? Because it can not possibly be you who misunderstood his writing, because you are perfect and can do nothing wrong.

JackxTbx6 “giving credit to Stannis when he deserves none” You realize a major part of his character arc is someone who is self deluded and self righteous starting to realize what really matters and what it really means to be a king? Therefore it’s him becoming righteous. Why do you dismiss him so easily? “I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom. When I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne.” It was Stannis who wanted to make the wildings part of his kingdom (marrying Val to someone) to add to his army when to eventually fight the Others.

@@JT66125 I'm literally quoting the author that directly disproves your opinion. The author himself misunderstood his own book series? Stannis has done things wrong. I'll be the first to admit that, but what you are saying is straight up false. There's a huge amount of people who apply malice to Stannis' motivations and it's completely unwarranted. It's getting ridiculous at this point.

Charline Thom Instead of Davos Jon needs a Jesuit advisor to tell him that lying to Cersei is nbd.

Exactly he pissed me off when he told Cersei that he bent the knee to Dany without even considering how Cersei would react to that

the whole Dragonpit plotline of season 7 is stupid to be honest. There was no way Cercei would help them either way.

He didn´t learned from Ned Stark. You should NEVER be sincere with Cersei.

@@rollercoaster478 Yes, And how stupid it is to take your greatest enemy's army in to your battle field or castle and expect that they wont try to kill you. I mean had Lanister army come to winterfell, they could have murdered them after the battle against the night king. and if not for Jon snow, dany could have taken king's landing and then marched north with Lanister, Tyrell and dornish armies. So poorly written.

Did you seriously just ask what has she done for the North or the Northerners?? She literally went beyond the wall to save their King's ass and lost a dragon in the process! She's proven she's a good leader from the fact that she's willing to die to save the world and the people! Oh and also she's heading North as we speak right now with her whole army, and dragons to help them fight the white walkers and to protect them, essentially putting her life and the assets that will win her the throne at risk! She's coming to save them, doesn't that at least gain her their respect?? Without Dany, they're screwed! If the North doesn't accept her help because they're ungrateful, then they deserve to die.

dorito smith She went beyond the wall to save one bastard who had no business being there to begin with. He is King, he has responsibilities now... such as not risking his life pointlessly. Send some soldiers to do it. What leadership skills has she shown? none. Her time in Mereen displayed that nicely. Willing to die? lol! Did she fight in the Battle of The Bastards? Defend the Wall from a massive Wildling invasion? Avenge the Red Wedding? Please when was the last time she was in direct danger in order to save some civvies? it is very easy to be brave when riding a 50 ft long mythical monster. When she leads an army of Northerners down in the mud along side them I will consider her brave. I have much more respect for Brienne and Ygritt in that regard. Hell even Jaime and Tyrion have that kind of bravery. Dany has never had to earn anything and that has yet to change. She is a Mary Sue on wings having everything given to her. Jon had no right to betray the North and waste all the blood they shed. I hope this comes back to bite him.

@@wiseguy01 You aren't even being logical. Dorito Smith just explained it all to you very nicely. You have to consider her position of power and Jon and the North's position of weakness ie. imminent certain death without her pledge to commit every single defensive asset she has to help them. Then you can remember that she did save Jon's foolish mission beyond the wall to steal a deadie and then after all that she did not take King's Landing when she finally got there and could have because Jon asked her not to kill any more soldiers who can possibly fight with him against the dead. So just chill and take the story that we are being told in the show version for what it is and give Dan and Dave a little credit. If the author of the source material can trust them to tell his story then you can certainly do it too. You just might enjoy it a little more that way and if you just can't, well there will be George's version along someday that you can alway's disagree with but for now this is the story we are being told.

@David Eats by that logic, or lack thereof, the entirety of western Europe should have become US territory in exchange for their support during the first and second World Wars? see how dumb that sounds? just because they need her ARMIES for a conflict does not mean she deserves to rule them. It is an alliance born of necessity, not because Dany did anything worthy of rulership. Saving Jon does not show that she is worthy of ruling the North when in every other scene she sounds like some entitled, spoiled child throwing around her meaningless claim to the Iron Throne by right of birth, as if her daddy was not overthrown. She literally arrives talking up a storm about how things will be different and then does the exact same shit that everyone else has been doing. Compare her to Stannis? Someone who only pursued the throne so that he could restore stability to the Seven Kingdoms and also was the ONLY king who answered the call to come North and fight the White Walkers when the Night's Watch asked for aid(they sent ravens to everyone). It didn't take an army of the dead or a crush on his niece to get him to do what is right, he just did it. Dany does not deserve to rule anyone and she is clearly not good at it. I don't care what Dumb and Dumber wants people to think. Also, the whole going beyond the wall to steal a Wight makes not sense and should have ended in utter failure. Only reason any of them are alive now is because of lack of consistency when it comes to the passage of time and horrid writing. The show is fanfiction now and I wont even bother watching the last season. I will be rooting for the White Walkers to kill your fanfic crushes and end this parade of stupidity.

@@wiseguy01 I'm not arguing with you. I'm just saying that what you have seen so far is the way the story goes. You may wish that the characters made different choices but they didn't. This idea that the direction of the narrative is somehow up to the fans and they should have an input as to the direction of the plot going forward is a revisionists fantasy. You seem to be a fan so just enjoy the story. The show is not fan fiction and you seem to be suggesting that because the fan fiction that you have in mind is not the official story, that you are displeased. Your subsequent choice to cheer for the White Walkers is also the saddest protest I can imagine.

I dunno man, that John snow guy's pretty cute. I think we should give him a pass

Hope you are being sarcastic, otherwise you are a complete tarado

"Awhore Ahype" You had my attention, now you have my respect.

Noobs Gaming he is, genius. How could you not sense the dripping sarcasm

Yeah everyone knows books are for eggheads anyways. I mean, why would a person want to, like, read things? You could be consuming products, brands, media, and food instead.

Everytime same with me. Whenever i see this. And also from seeing those comments about true love.

@@hasibmd2891 They didn't had any chemistry at all

I think he does it because he loves her. The point of bending the knee was to show that he has completely fallen for her. Its a purposfully stupid decision.

+Felicia Larsen they've made a dedicated attempt to act like his resurrection never happened. There's the understandable way that Jon knows no one's going to believe it happened so he tries to get Davos to shut up about it when talking to Daenarys to increase the chance of alliance. Then there's these: 1. His lords do not even once bring up his desertion of the Night's Watch. He was Lord Commander. Now he's King in the North. Despite their deep respect of tradition, not one person brings up that he deserted, and is therefore a criminal to be condemned to death. Why should he be king? Now of course Jon didn't desert, but the only way to have his lords understand this is to convince them of his death and resurrection. But nope, not even addressed. And Baelish doesn't even make use of it to discredit Jon. 2. When Dany sees his scars, and knows Davos said something about Jon giving his own life, she at no point brings it up. Those are some fucked up wounds. One looks like a knife went in his heart. When you hear that, and you hear he died, you ask questions, but nope. 3. Jon acts no different other than being dumber. If Berick is anything to go by (and Stoneheart if you're judging from the books) Jon's personality should be changing, to someone less wilful and motivated, and/or possibly less compassionate and more hateful. 4. Melisandre makes no mention of Jon's death. If she stayed and made sure to speak of his resurrection, it would have helped convince Dany. The best job they've done at addressing it is Berick and Jon talking about it, and trying to figure out why they were brought back and what value they still have for the world. But to me overall it feels like they just want to use it as an excuse to get Jon out of the Night's Watch and never use it for anything else in the story.

He gets saved at the battle at the wall by Stannis? Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't he go just to talk to Mance Rayder and then Stannis' army appears and destroys the wildling army?

Keep him dead or better yes, make him come back in wolf form.

Grrm has nothing to do with the show anymore.

In the books, he's like 16-17, it's understandtable that he makes mistake even tho melisabdra warned him, but he has no excuse in the show.

@@kovu1530 At 16-17 were you incapable of rational thought?

His dialogue is also reduced to "you're my queen" and "I don't want the iron throne". My god he got worse. I hate almost every character on this show now because they are so badly written. My favorite character Tyrion just lost IQ points for every season. And he is at the peak of his stupidity this season.

@@grumpyoldtroll5676 exactly. I really hope all his plot armor throughout the show isn't for nothing, like Jamie's. Lol.

@@grumpyoldtroll5676 Tyrion must be brain damaged from the stint in that box, perhaps the air holes weren't big enough...

Queen Cercei I have been waiting for this too! Finally, it is here! Now I can rest and get on with my life...

Queen Cercei IdeasOfIceAndFire really captured our criticism of Jon Snow quite well in this video! 😂

@@ClaireYunFarronXIII I don't think Quinn was that hard on him, I would of gone for the jugular myself😀. Jon is so boring for me to watch, too late to give him a personality for season 8

Hail Queen cercei !! I like you wicked Queen.

Don't forget his nuclear resistant plot armor which was on full display in BotB. I was laughing after a while while watching that battle. The rain of arrows that falls all around him but none hit him. The dozen or so times someone comes charging at him outside his field of vision only to be defeated some way before they reach Jon. Psycho, mind game Ramsey who doesn't shoot him but instead goes for Wun Wun and then only aims at Jon's head and doesn't even fight back. It's like Jon's plot armor sucked all the Ramsey-ness out of Ramsey.

Yup. Like those hills of bodies. How did they even come up with this? Walls of bodies that will be used as a plot device to trap Jon's men in a corner. It makes no sense. When you see a dead men in front of you, you don't stand on top of them to fight. Unless you want to lose your footing and fall. And in the "spears" formation, Jon had a giant... He could easily break through them. Not to mention, those tower shields were two big and second line which actually held the spears had no line of sight. Plus, they couldn't maneuver their spears too much, because they were blocked by the shields on each side. So come closer to the first shielded line (Make the second line's spears useless against you). Push them aside and slaughter everyone in between. The cgi and cinematography was beyond words. Just amazing. But since it was so unrealistic and stupid, it was one of the worse portrayals of any battle, on tv or cinema, in my opinion.

Actually it made no sense becauss Jon fucked it up and fell for ramsays trap. So moral of the story dont let jon lead battles

If Dany choses Jon to lead her army, she is just as stupid as he is. Jamie or Jorah would do a better job, we can't have Jon losing his shit again and getting everyone killed

Yup. How I would have held Castle Black: Pass out spears and shields. Put in pavises to protect missile troops. Station some men with pikes in the wall tunnels in case anything gets in. At the main gate, Dig breastworks meant to channel attackers into kill zones. Form a shield wall at the gate. Use the standoff ability of the spears to kill the wildlings with arrows and slings. The wildlings are unorganized, undisciplined, and unarmored, carrying mostly just swords and a few bows; they aren't outfitted for fighting organized men behind a defensive line. Hold the top of the wall with a minimum number of soldiers. Send ravens to the Starks, Boltons, Umbers, and Glovers for support citing that it's their lands and peoples being targeted for pillage so they better do something. When the wildlings give up on assaulting the fortress, something they are not set up to do, they get cut off and routed by the northern cavalry forces. This is pretty much what was done in real life warfare.

I'm reluctant to say John is a bad war leader. The writing was terrible for that episode and really that season as a whole. How about we wait for the books before we pass judgement and make such a strong claim.

and Sansa, Arya, Tyrion, Varys.... I can go on, but the show really whitewashed some popular characters. Tyrion and Varys are not, in fact, good people with the best interests of the people at heart. Sansa and Arya are both butchered in the show. Arya is so much smarter than Sansa it's not even funny, and I'm not just saying that because I liked her more. Arya makes fun of Sansa for it at one point. Sansa... the way the show is written, Sansa turns starts as wanting a crown more than anything, and finishes wanting a crown more than anything (if for different reasons) people argue about that with me all the time, but over the course of the show, the only thing she did solely for family was try to save her father, everything else had a much larger ulterior motive. Many people who liked the show and only watched the show would have a different opinion of Tyrion and Varys if they read the books a few times.

Can we save the cersei/tyrell story arc ? It was soooo good

@@Kai555100 Cersei is always good. Her story is actually the only good thing in the show since season 5 (I'm exagerating, but that's the idea)

@@darllington8995 I honestly liked sansas too yes many don't like her but she is one of the most relatable characters in the show in my opinion and one of the last few characters that feel like professionals writers wrote her and not me when I was 15 .Cersei though she still makes some smart moves but for me she is too much if a Disney villan at this point ,they entertain u and u like them but they are clear cut evil. Soooo I probably butchered this sry it's just a second language.

@@Kai555100 Sansa was having a pretty good season 7 until Arya showed up and everything went to hell.

@@Kai555100 yeah sure. I love Sansa too.

But he is a talker in the book.

He's shite in the books too

@@musspuss a lie, take that back

I personally think kit Harrington doesn't fit Jon at all. Nothing on the actor himself but the pouty innocent look of Kit doesn't fit the character. Book Jon is much more intimidating, ruthless and serious. And he is not pretty either. I'm sure most of the fault is with D&D's tho for removing every single one of Jon's scenes, especially his speeches. They litteraly dumped down his intelligence all the way to 0 and buffed his fighting skills so he could be unkillable.

He can order his troop, with shield, to save him

I think people like to forget that Jon's craving family. And that wasn't a strategical move but an emotional one

Still makes him an awful leader. As so often in the show, he basically puts himself/his family above everything else(similar to when he wants to leave the Nightwatch to join Robb). As a leader, someone who has responsibility, he can't do that. Even Robb didn't do that.

Whether it was an emotional move is besides the point. He's a shite leader if he cant keep his cool, and he's thick as shit if he truly thought he could get himself and Rickon out alive.... Just because he was emotionally charged, does not mean he isnt stupid for carrying out such an absurd move right before a battle....

Florian Laur Rob absolutely did that. It's what got him killed.

Also, how did they knew he was the real Rickon? In the books there was a false Arya, and false Bran and Rickon were killed in Winterfel. Didn´t anyone though about checking first?. I mean, John didn´t saw his brother since he was a little kid, Ramsay could just put a random stranger in the field and say it was Rickon.

@@vilwarin5635 Shaggydog's head was how they knew.

He prevented dany from attacking king's landing before going north.

But jon has plot armour

Even Robb still smarter than him

But Ned (and Robb) paid the price for their stupidity. Jon has made 10 times as many mistakes and gets rewarded for some reason

ben1ben2ben1 PLOT ARMOUR

He is not neds son lol he's a targaryen

Just wondering if N+A=J , who was born in the tower of joy. Dany or Faegon ?

It hasn't been explicitly revealed in the books, but it's common knowledge that he is secretly R&L's son. In fact, I heard somewhere that the author tested the showrunners before authorizing their adaptation by asking them who they thought his birth mother was, and they correctly guessed Lyanna. There're tons of clues in the books. The books are full of hints and clues and foreshadowings, while the show loves to just spring thiings on you out of nowhere. With the books, even if you don't guess beforehand, once something is revealed, you realize it made senses. There's none of this "But how did he get there so fast?" or "Why would she have done that thing" like you have on the show. And Jon's not the rightful heir. His biological father & grandfather were deposed and their relatives kicked out of the country. Jon has no more right to the Iron Throne than the English Royal Family has to the presidency of the US. And in the books, the whole point of Jon's secret parentage is to deflate those other stories. Jon IS a bastard, because that's how he's been treated his whole life. Finding a piece of paper that says his parents were technically married doesn't change how his "step-mother" treated him or that he felt so unwelcome in his birthplace that as soon as he was old enough, he ran away to join a penal colony for life with vows of celibacy. His whole life is exactly the same as if he really had been the result of an affair between Ned & some random woman. Robb, Sansa, Arya, Bran, Rickon, Catelyn, Theon, Ser Rodrik, Old Nan, the maester - they all treated Jon exactly like that, because none of them knew the truth. His character was not formed by whether or not his parents made promises before they had sex, it was formed by the belief that he was unwanted and Less than other people. People might hear Sam's news and treat Jon differently, but it's not going to fix anything that was wrong with his life. It's not going to make up for years of neglect and mistreatment. And if you think about it for half a second, the KNOWLEDGE is going to be awful for Jon, not a relief. It's going to mean that Catelyn was cruel to him for no reason, it's going to mean that the man he loved as a father and the siblings he loved are not his father & siblings. He's going to realize that he is the product of a "romance" that destroyed the kingdom, saw his grandfather & uncle murdered, Oberyn's sister raped & murderd by the mountain, Dany raised in exile by an abusive pervert of the brother, the king murdered by Jaime Lannister, and Cersei brought to the throne. All that for the relationship that produced him. Robb is DEAD, because he married a woman. He married her because he was raised watchng his mother abuse his brother and it was okay, because his brother was a bastard. You think that doesn't figure into whether or not Robb does the "right" thing and marry his lover? The message he got from Jon's existence is that premarital sex is bad and could result in a child that your arranged wife can abuse and you can't do much to stop her. So Robb married the girl he might get pregnant so his arranged Frey wife would never be in a position to treat his & Talisa's bastard like his mother treated Jon. And that led to the Red Wedding. All because of Jon Snow, whom Ned had to pretend was his bastard, so Robert would not try to murder him like he ordered for Dany & Viserys. Ned got in a fight with his king, and was vulnerable to Jaime's attack, and Robert wasn't listening to him, so Cersei won and Joffrey killed him - because Ned was thinking of Jon, whom he loves like a son, when Robert is determined to kill all of Rhaegar's relatives, even innocent ones who had not been born when he killed Rhaegar, like Dany. Ned & Robb are arguably dead, because Jon Snow was in their lives. Jon Snow's existence was the one blight on the happy Stark family, and it wasn't even true! That should totally fuck him up, but you can tell on the show it's all going to be "Hail King Jon!" "Hey, wait, what about Queen Dany?" "Oh, no! TWO Targaryens? Are we going to have a war like that shitty cartoon in the Season 5 DVDs?" "I know, let's have them get married! That way the North doesn't have to bow to Dany, and they can rule together!" And Jon gets a wife and a crown and a dragon and he doesn't even have to feel like he's usurping his not-really sibling's inheritance! Hooray, that's all there is to it! And then they can twist the knife by having Jon or Dany die to stop the White Walkers and it's SOOO sad, and everyone is all "Wow, what an awesome tragic show" and the real tragedy of Jon's life passed the writers by.

I agree that birth doesn't matter, and its his actions that make him the man he is, but shouldn't that mean that it also doesn't matter if he is Rhaegar and Lyanna's son? Even if this turns out to be true in the books, I highly doubt he will ever sit the Iron Throne or anything, so really what does it matter whose son he is.

Ashara was known to be in King's Landing during the Rebellion. Jon is younger than Robb, it is literally impossible for Ashara to be Jon's mother

You do realise that storyline is all GRRM? It’s not the show that made Jon the real heir. That’s Jon’s actual book canon parentage. Blaming that on the show sounds dumb.

bro, who is reading all of this?

@@ladyish0968 It's a great rant though. I particularly like the idea that Jon is turning everyone he meets into an idiot.

Great point about Shereen Baratheon, Jon wouldn’t give a fuck about her and if you play any fantasy videogame or know something about war in general, killing your firemage is idiotic, it’s your artillery

I love the rant lol!!! The Davos/Shireen stuff really pissed me off. Like are we really ignoring the fact HER PARENTS allowed it to happen??!! When it all comes down to the wire, Mel wouldn't have been able to burn Shireen w/o their permission. It's like Davos thought Shireen was his daughter while forgetting he has his own damn family. I didn't agree with the Dany part though b/c i don't feel like it was Jon that made her dumb; she was doing dumb shit before she even met him. Staying in Meeren as long as she did, the whole Harpy shit, locking away the dragons, dismissing Oleana's advise, dismissing Jon (If the Cetidel new about WW & Westeros knew about dragons, she should've at least had some suspicions), & those are just the most recent. Also, are scouts just not a thing anymore??! It's like nobody knows anything until the two armies are face to face. Like are you all not sending out scouts to get an idea on what's coming? lol

Roscoe Dash I hear you. However, I think the infection is not Jon Snow although, he's certainly infected & is the superhero, messiah rolled into one. It adds up to a cartoon figure. The original virus is D & D's bad writing since they can no longer lean on the book material. Nor, can they deftly develop the characters using the material they had because they're incompetent hacks relying on SFX rather than, character motivation and the logical progression of ideas to inform the characters decisions.

I dont have much to say about his death. In the show it is more about thorne being an asshole. In the books it is more about the nights watch being afraid of ramsay. It is every thing he does after season 5 that is shitty.

@@rdcarbonk1885 Pretty much, other than some of the men of watch (those who haven't seen the others or the dead) don't really believe it's as bad as Jon says.

Just wait until you see him in season 8 get ambushed by 7 wights only to escape and be completely fine when the scene cuts. They did that 5 + times.

well, the season was made at the peak of the SJW culture, so they knew they have to make every episode about female dominance or else critisism about "racism, sexism, xenophobia, homophobia, what ever phobia" act act will be coming.

Jon isn't a Gary sue. He's an author’s pet. Most of the bad creative decisions are a shallow attempt to Oskar bait the actor.

the fact that Jon was killed by his own men destroys the Gary Stu classification, he needs to be loved by EVERY character that's on his side, now you could call him a Paragon and that would be closer to the truth. Also his resurrection was teased at with him and Beric before so you can't claim that's some kind of plot armor, it was a character growth moment.

Worst character is Bronn or Dany.

Have to agree, Jon is now at the bottom of the pit for me. Completely dull moments, annoying speeches, plot armour coming out his butt , uninteresting personalty. He is like a mannequin with no soul

Arya's worse after season 6 and 7's plot armouring and miraculously attained abilities.

Not really. Show Jon was almost always a Gary Stu. Just his dumbing down was a lot more gradual than Dany’s, reaching its peak at season 6.

Jon's been a Gary sue from day one, not season 6.

They fooked everything

he hardly wears any armor. I get that the north is a bit different, but come on. The books go into detail about that kind of thing, but we need to see sexy male character (personally i don't find Kit Harrington all that good looking, but I'm straight so I'm probably not the best judge. He played the slop that was written well, even if he was quite a bit shorter and older than book Jon.)