Regardless of how accurate Lion is today, you got to give respect to the people of the Liverpool Engineering Society in 1928 for rescuing a peice of British History when preservation wasn't a serious thing back then until the 1960s. I still think Lion is 100% the real deal.

This reminds me of an old saying "A wolf in sheep's clothing" But instead "An 1840s engine in 1930s gilding" Keep up the work, I'd love to see more videos on these types of "restorations"

I would've liked to see Lion as described, she would've been quite a different and, in my opinion, more handsome machine!

Tempted by the lovely era 3 model of this now available🤣.......................

Would be interesting to see something like a scale model utilising current day research on what Lion would've actually looked like

I like to think that this engine was actually Lion but it was so heavily modified throughout its working life, and having ended its working life as a stationary pumping engine, no longer resembled the engine it was when outshopped. That said, the restoration in the 1930s added a lot of features that this engine never had, and further skews the public perception of what this engine and it's sisters actually looked like in their working careers. That also said, Lion has become an icon in steam preservation and continued to steam in preservation until 1988, a feat given the age of some of its components and a testament to the curators who took care of it in preservation. Given that there's working replicas of Stephenson's Rocket in original 1829 configuration, it might not be a bad idea to construct a working replica of Lion in theoretical original 1838 condition and have it steam on preserved lines hauling a rake of freight wagons or pulling enthusiasts in period accurate passenger coaches.

Very interesting! The "Lion" we see definitely has an interesting story. If only we could know what happened to the original Lion and her sister. Also be interesting to figure out which engine it was that was discovered as a stationary boiler and turned into Lion. If the components date it to the 1840s I wonder where it could have come from... Could make for a fun part two! Regardless of her credibility, I still love the look of the Lion we see today ^^

Well, the "approximate" replica was clearly good enough as the Titfield Thunderbolt, but it just as clearly doesn't cut the mustard as a museum artefact. Back to the drawing-board, the Messrs Curators!

Another fantastic video! It's fascinating how much we still have to learn about these early locomotives. It's a little frustrating how many "false impressions" some of these early restorations and replicas have left us with, but we can't fault the Late Victorian and Early Twentieth Century researchers for doing the best they could with the resources they had at the time. Hindsight is always 20/20. Despite how inaccurate it is, "Lion" in it's current form is an icon in it's own right! Who knows? Maybe the locomotive known today as "Lion" is actually an 1840s Stephenson "Samsom" class named "Thunderbolt", which was built for the (not at all fictional) Titfield to Mallingford Railway! Thank you once again for an excellent video!

Excellent, been waiting to see if you'd do a video on lion and it's questionable restoration

All of your Lion videos add something extra, Anthony. I’m glad I’ve watched them all. What kind of firebox cladding did Colonel Kitson Clark favour?

I did a certain amount of research as to the sourcing of parts and cobbling together of the Stirling GNR Single's tiny tender for the White City Exhibition. I was trying to get the NRM to use/restore the correct large tender found by Mr Scholes in the late 1960s, which could well have run in service behind No.1.

Coming off what I concluded in Andrew Dawson's previous video about Lion, it is likely that the locomotive first received its present pattern of boiler when rebuilt at Edge Hill in the 1840's, which would have meant it necessary to replace the driving wheels in order to better support its weight, and also would have necessitated modification of the frames at the front end to carry the longer width; rather similar to how the ex-London & South Western Beattie Well Tanks and Adams Radial Tanks that survived into the early 1960s, were rebuilt with modified front-end frames during rebuilds under Southern Railway ownership in the 1930s. Regards, Samuel Farris.

Wow these last few weeks have been crazy on YT! Not only did Bill Wurtz, Internet Historian and Sam’O Nella upload but now we got 3 new videos from Anthony!

Utterly fascinating. Thanks for your exemplary detective work. May I also be bold to enquire what is your superb and precise accent?

Exceptional. Thank you for sharing.

Good morning! Another enlightening video. It's a shame to learn that the extremely whimsical shape everyone attributes to "Lion" is not in fact faithful to whatever engine actually owned said frames in the first place, but alas it is what it is. I do wonder if any modelmaker might be willing to take on the challenge of producing a model of "Lion" in its theorised working condition? Lastly, thoughts on the Rapido and Hornby models of "Lion"? Any comments? Thanks again and keep up the good work.

Would love to see a model of Lion in as close to actual Era 1 condition. But I do find it amusing how neither Rocket or Lion are actually representative of their Era 1 design in their OO gauge forms. Perhaps a model of Sans Pareil, Planet or Locomotion is due as I believe all 3 are accurate to their Era 1 forms

It seems the endless speculation if lion is actually lion, without the most accurate paperwork coming to light saying exactly who she is, with undeniable proof, will continue for a good while yet, let us there for take as fact what we were presented with in 1930,and when anyone visits the Liverpool Musuem and sees her for the first time. Lion built for the Liverpool and manchester railway in 1838, bask in her magnicient history and admire her beautiful appearance. ❤️

Aster models made a working steam engine of the lion in gauge one about 1/30 scale.

KZfaq just notified me about this video. Only three days late. The notification service must be run by Royal Mail. 😂

love that film

I’m rather curious Anthony. Given the major difference in driving wheel diameter for the Lion we know now compared to the original form of Lion, were there other Luggage engines built either by Sharp or Kitson that had driving wheels with that larger diameter? Did any of Lion’s sisters ever carry larger wheels?

I knew the "rebuild" was inaccurate, but geese that's a pretty poor restoration. Then again exactly what research resources did they have in the 1930s? Anyhow a very interesting video!

Let somebody make a Lionel as she would have been original

Very interesting Fab video Thank you for sharing Keep safe ARP

Love the gothic firebox.

Would love to have her reworked to how she looked

I know most railfans don't like anything Thomas, but this video made think. If a LNWR Bloomer was found nearly 100 years after it should've been scrapped, imagine if somehow Sir Topham Hatt found the original Lion in 1830's condition. If both the original and the current replica were alive, how would each of them react? How would the replica feel, being told it was the original for so long?

Now the cylinders of Lion as built 11in by 20in. Today's Lion 14in by 18in and has 5feet wheels. The original Lion was made at Todd, Kitson and Laird. It is said that today's Lion was one of three locos brought Mersey Docks and Harbors, the other 2 coming from the Lancashire and Yorkshire railway. Those from the L&Y were doubtlessly originally built for the Manchester & Leeds railway. When I Look at the 1919 photos, the boiler barrel is relatively feature less, this is shown in the video and raises doubts that the Lion today was ever built at Todd, Kitson & Laird. (again stated in the video). So I looked at where the Manchester & Leeds brought their locos from. They had several sources, most could be dismissed as having nothing like the 1919 photos. And then boom, I hit upon the Haigh Foundry and here is Ajax built for Leicester & Swannington railway, check 3rd image here: www.meppostcards.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=2834 And in 1841, Haigh Foundry built 4 locos with an 0-4-2 wheel base, 5ft diameter wheels 14*18in cylinders (the exact dimensions of Lion today) for the Manchester & Leeds railway. Numbers 33,34,35 and 36. I suspect today's Lion is one of these four!

Lion's 200th anniversary is not far away now.

this info is intresting about the lion . i like your videos about the eraly railways in the uk. ✨✨✨✨👍👍👍🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪

Seems that the more we think we know about the early engines, the more we're starting to find that we actually don't know what we thought. Makes one wonder where they did their research and where they got their information from. If it ends up turning out that Lion is not Lion, what contenders are there for what she could actually be,?

there is always the chance that a detailed painting, an official sketch or some other piece of information may, one day appear from someone's attic or wherever to fill in gaps of reality. after all, the modern recreation of the locomotive known as elephant was a result of serendipitous discoveries as i understand it. please correct me if i am wrong.

hello i really enjoy your videos, please if possible, could you do a video on the GWR hurricane am thunderer?

Lion just got roasted.

I hadn’t realised that the chimney on the loco as found was of historical significance. Do you think it had been added to the loco with the smokebox? I think you said that had been transferred from another engine as it was too wide to fit comfortably between the front wheels.

I saw it plying its way out of MOSI pulling loaded open carriages unique sound is that the real recording at beginning of video😮?

I noticed that the design drawing has the smoke box leaning forward. 4:40 That seems unusual, however I could see an advantage for cleaning out the smoke box... either that, or the draftsman didn't quite draw it square. However, forward leaning chimneys seems to be common to all but one of the drawings. I wonder if that was a real thing...

This is a weird video where we only know the middle and end of the story, but not the beginning. Due to Lion's bizarre history, I suppose you did not have much choice in the matter. After watching this video it's like I see Lion indeed more as a toy or somewhat imperfect than a genuine engine. If we had pictures of it pre-restoration, more definitive data stored somewhere, or even if it was discovered much later, I wonder how history would have played out?

it's a ship of theseus type of problem, isn't it? inaccuracies, rebuilding decisions and all, it's still lion to me

just as Hornby has released a Lion model train

I could of sworn it was in Maine

_Titfield Thunderbolt_ - Yep, OK Anthony, that's what I thought you said. How on earth do you "lose a chimney"? It's not like it fell out someone's coat pocket. Hmmm, this locomotive imposter allegation can't be just swept under the track ballast. Someone, is 'aving a larf at railway enthusiast's and historian's expense.

😉😉👍👍

Where can I learn about English locomotives exported to Japan and Thailand and in what era that became commonplace ? There is a rumor that somewhere in Bangkok the first English locomotive they bought still exists in a crate in storage in some warehouse , like lost , God knows where ! I will try to ask the Thai people later next year . Info sure gets lost over time !

Does the incorrect restoration of a locomotive lose its romance? I'll let others decide.

And anybody who thinks the pile of random scrap with a name plate on it is the original Rocket needs to live in room with rubber wallpaper.