Threw one pikmin at a bayo at roundstart and died from a witch time combo and never went to a smash 4 tournament again

That shot of all 4 meta knights using tornado is the single funniest thing to come out of competitive smash.

"That was a shitty airdodge" has "Just SDI" energy

Coney: Bayo is the dumbest character to ever be put in smash >:( Also Coney: YEAH CHAINGRABBING YEAH THAT’S THE STUFF

When sm4sh came out I thought to myself "finally an online smash that will receive balance patches, never again will we have a truly overpowered character to ruin the meta"

Coney about smash 4 bayo: What do you mean that was a bad airdodge, he was at 34?!?!? Coney about brawl meta knight: That was your fault for jumping, that was a scrub jump. Coney is a king 🤴

“First of all, don’t listen to ESAM. But second of all, he’s right.” Lmao

8:21 That moment when someone makes a great point about Miis around 8 years too late lmao.

I love how coney treats his audience like they're all 12

My current thoughts on MK v. Bayo are that MK was stronger AND less fun BUT Bayo was more unfair. She killed her game more.

I think what really made Bayo ruin the game in the end was the refusal by TO's to ban the character despite the evidence of go DLC or die.

8:25 For the record *I* made that argument all the damn time! It wouldn't have mattered if people brought it up back then, a good argument never matters in this community. It would've been dismissed just as readily as they dismiss any sound argument.

“Brawl was kinda f-cked up but I love it, it was truly magic” Sums up my feelings towards Brawl very well

coney with bayonetta: "it was just an airdodge at 36% That shouldn't be allowed" coney with metaknight: "aht...scrub jump...your fault" (at 20%)

22:49 That was the most "Well yes, but actually no" moment I have ever heard in my life.

10:35 Having a character itself is pretty rare, but it’s definitely happened. Main reason I see is because they have very simple playstyles to adapt and were busted with it. UMVC3 Dark Phoenix and Tekken 7 Leroy/Release-Akuma I remember were about as hated as Bayo in their communities. I think Leroy especially was hated because one EVO he took like 5 or 6 of Top 8. More often it’s more players being community villains like Leffen and Hbox for periods in Melee. Umvc3 had Filipino Champ and ChrisG as their villains.

Don't forget that at the end of Smash 4's lifespan, Diddy Kong was actually considered #2. I genuinely think that if the game had lived, Cloud might have actually fallen to like 5th place. Mario's ladder combos were getting better, and people were figuring out how to play the matchup vs Cloud before Bayo came out and everyone started focusing on her.

I love listening to Coney talk about Brawl/Smash4 meta/history. It's the perfect blend of entertaining and informative. Also I have to say that saying Bayo > Brawl MK is definitely recency bias, and my guess for who the Ganon player was is either Opana or Ray Kalm.

I have a hot take as a Sm4sh player: Sm4sh was a great competitive game before Cloud came out. The last three DLC characters fucking ruined Sm4sh competitive. However, the cast of mid, high and lower top tiers were super deep and had rich gameplay that was super interesting to watch and play. It's just that everyone remembers Cloud and Bayo because they came out at the end of the game's life. Then again Rosalina fucking existed, so what do I know.

The camera switch when coney is acting out 2 people is so funny to me for no reason

Coney going over old tournament stories and how he witnessed smash history in the making was genuinely super interesting. I would love to watch him watch all the heeew videos

As a Smash 4 Babby, this is such a fun walk down jank memory lane. And Miis were only the kiddy pool side of the insane dimension that was custom move sets. There are people who will never experience stuff like Kong Cyclone, Vaccum Aura Sphere, and the actual camper Villager build with Trip Sapling and Danger Flight.

Brawl meta dittos are fun to watch as both players have broken moves to respond to every situation. Bayo dittos in 4 just sit there holding neutral b until they are told to stop. Then just 0-death each other off the weakest hits. A lot less fun to watch.

A good addendum to 23:00 is that, because so many weird stages needed to be banned because of MK, this caused Ice Climbers to quickly rise up to a top tier, due to having no more crazy counterpicks to stop them.

The character choice = personal morality anomaly is definitely a thing in other fighting games. If the community hates a character enough they'll hate the people who play them

Some smash compilation channels have been showing rare sets of smash 4 triples, as in 3v3, with the custom items on. With news of the Wii U eshop closing down, I think the community should get together and do an entire smash 4 custom triples tournament just to see the hilarity ensue.

Coney bringing up Gnes reminded me that there's prolly people in the smash community now who haven't heard Metaknight da bess

I like Smash 4 because nobody in my friend group cared about Bayonetta nor Cloud, so we just had fun with other characters. I think it's the only way to like the game

Mii players should’ve just chosen their move-set when entering a tournament and be forced to use the same moveset all the way through, that way they aren’t countering but they can still use their own preferred moveset.

I will never forget Losers Semis at Genesis 5, when Nairo played against mistake. It was Game 5 last stock. Mistake had about 90% and Nairo a completely fresh stock. It took one Neutral B from Nairo to get 0-to-death'd and he died off the top at 40%. That's where I actually quit watching Smash 4 tournaments Edit: need to correct myself, Nairo missed a nair and died at 24%

My very first tournament ever was brawl. I was about 9 and I went toon link and got double 3 stocked by meta knight. That single experience changed me. I was only a casual player at the time and it showed me what competitive smash was. I was so shocked and upset when I found out that "Pirate Ship" isn't a legal stage.

10:25 Nah, the you're a "bad person for picking X character" absolutely exists in the FGC. It's more prevalent in the lower/casual level though. But I get where you are coming from though.

Meta Knight's domination is due to most characters in the game being trash while he had no downsides, whereas Bayonetta was just OP but the other characters weren't necessarily bad. I think in the contexts of their games, Meta Knight was a better character and more dominant, but if Brawl MK and Sm4sh Bayo were to fight 1v1 with their own games mechanics, Bayo would win.

I wonder if when the eShop goes down on the Wii U and 3DS, those who didn’t get the Smash 4 DLC lose Cloud and Bayonetta forever

No wonder she's broken. They literally Copy-pasted her Bayonetta 2, A combo-based game, moveset to Smash 4, a game with an emphasis on combos. What did they think was going to happen?

No matter what you think of the miis, brawler is hype in smash 4 and ult

5:31 I had a dream once that The Hulk was in Melee. He had all of Donkey Kong's moves and for a few seconds when I awoke I wondered if he actually was in the game.

I feel like the reason MK got more top placements than bayo did at their games' peaks is because MK benefitted way more from his game's mechanics (e.g. having infinite recovery tools to avoid tripping, having a frame 2 up air in a game with no combos)

Coney was on the fucking money with Cloud. That was the most pick up and win your local matches character. He was the bane on my smash 4 days LOL

Bro custom moves casually was so fucking fun!

19:16 Coney dissects each player's use of Mach Tornado while laughing about the entire situation. Top notch commentary.

This man’s brawl bias is so funny 😂

The “what the fuck” after the Mii counterpick thing had me in tears 😂

Not a competitive player but Sm4sh got me really into the series, I remember being in eighth grade and deciding that Smash on 3DS was the hypest shit ever and that I would do whatever it took to earn a copy. This involved cleaning out a crappy shed full of spiders and mildew. Kinda bad game in hindsight but I have a lot of fond memories with it

I think the idea of Mii Brawler in Smash 4 is you change your movesets before matchup just as you can change a Mii to be anything and adapt it how you like. Cool how the moveset and mechanics of the character can change adaptively just as a Mii can

I liked custom moves, but dang they were hard to collect. Not only were some of them bad, but they didn't transfer between games.

Coney set himself up when he was talking about the Mii sizes

Fuck day 1 Mac. A friend of mine would ALWAYS set lower launch rate and played Mac whenever I played him in Smash 4. Then I 1v1'd him and destroyed him in Mac mirrors at our first tourney. Love him for teaching me all I need for that mirror match. XD

our scene in smash 4 allowed you to "register" your mii moveset. You filled out a card with the moveset and you were stuck with that moveset for the tourney

you should be careful for super grovers side-b, it's very strong and very quick

10:34 Nah, this is a thing in all fighting games. There's always a cheap character. So, when that one friend picks it we call their morality into question. They did it on purpose. We feel the malicious intent. And if we win? We rub that in their face!

More I watch Coney the more I love the stories that I hear, so much lore here HOLY love it

Players take this game so seriously, but every smash game is so fucking funny!

God I love smash 4 so much. I wish we got 1 more patch to just nerf bayo and make a few of the bottom tiers better. someone needs to make a PM style mod to bring life back into that game because it was just so fun

"DODODODODODO" Coney sound effects are so funny

The first smash game I really played to a "competitive" level was Smash 4. I loved it at first but after Cloud and Bayo I ended up hating it (especially because of Bayo) to the point that I actually switched to Rivals of Aether, a game I really love even today and it's still technically my one true platform fighter despite its flaws.

no idea why there's so much hate for smash 4. Cloud is so damn fun in that game, and it's excellent to play casually. Tournament scene at top level play is also very fun, especially when you're watching someone like M2k, mkleo, or zero duke it out. Smash 4 has something VERY important that I think a lot of people forget was actually in the game: landing lag. The importance of this single mechanic can't be overstated: without it, the game turns into nickelodeon all stars brawl, or it turns into smash ultimate, where the optimal strategy is almost always "short hop aerial", because there's very little landing lag to deal with on any moves. In Smash 4, because shields were quite strong, you couldn't just spam moves all the time, and it was even harder to spam moves in general because there was substantial landing lag for all moves in the game, which was punishable. I MUCH prefer this style of play compared to ultimate, where most of the time, mashing is the optimal strategy in casual play. Subjectively, I like the idea of perfect shielding much more than I like the idea of parrying, both because it's more intuitive, and it's LESS like other fighting games(and since fighting games are generally balanced like straight garbage with a meta that relies on wobbling, this is a good thing).

2GG CIVIL War is probably the best tournament ever

Talking about smash 4 brought back good memories but man did the competitive scene ended badly

I never even got her but MAN even I knew how broken she was (mostly because got into the community with ultimate tho lol)

The way I see it. Meta Knight was at least funny broken, Bayo was just broken

I think that set Coney was talking about was Mistake Zenyou at Frostbite, where Zenyou whiffed a shieldgrab against a Heel Slide cross-up and died for it

time for more content from my favorite brawl apologist

These ultra instinct John's at the 2 min mark 🤣🤣❤️❤️

I wish I was in chat for this one, I think Brawl Meta Knight was stronger in the sense that there was no other character even close to that level. I think Bayo was the overall stronger character because even with a character that was closer in power level as her (Cloud) she still dominated.

“Hasn’t seen the Brawl one” But the red view bar was full 😭

We need to make Sesame Street Smash Bros a thing.

Man imagine a dlc character with the ability to kill you at 30 from an inescapable combo Imagine if said character could do that and also be invulnerable in alot of there moves that would be wild

7:00 as a mii brawler main myself, this idea sounded fantastic

Coney: BAYO KILLED WITH ONE MISTAKE Also coney: LOOK AT THIS FALCO BOZO NICE JUMP DUMBAAAAAASSD

Brawl icies and Small Mii Brawler are so fun.

Glad to see Heeew's channel get some recognition.

5:40 that sounds like the best game ever

Brawl is always in my heart

4:44 She died there? DK didn't even have rage.

love getting coney's insights onto the brawl days, he forgets nothing

the mii fighter rant u went on had me fucking dying bro

10:53 oh believe me, it is a thing in fighting games

THE DIFFERENCE IS: counter picking characters you know what to expect. But mii fighters counter picking changing moves, the same character visually is fundamentally different and its harder to keep up with 9+ potential different moves vs 3

15:33 I remember learning that in a day when I was 13.

You say that people hated on Bayonetta players to an unhealthy degree...but aren't people doing that with Pythra players in Ult?

Sm4sh was the game where they just threw stuff at the wall and saw what sticks.

Smash 4 Mario combos look sick as long as your not playing against it

2:19 Please, no Johns

Even the top Smash content creators are making a call to action for new Heeew content

I wish brawl came out a little later. I was 7 when I got it but I have such vague memories from playing it

Where are the vods coney

I really wish we got to see Small Mii Brawler vs. Bayonetta

21:35 this is exactly what's happening with Steve right now

The Elmo V Super Grover MU is definitely 30/70, when are they gonna patch him?

what I never understood is why mii selection was banned but bayo wasn't.

I have my own story! It’s short. During the days of Sm4sh, my friend always kicked my ass cause he was better than me, and I was always angry about it because I couldn’t beat him… THEN CLOUD CAME OUT. My friend didn’t get him for reasons I forgot, but I did. I began to kick his ass, thinking I was hot shit because I had no idea Cloud was THAT busted. Looking back now, we were all trash. Nowadays, in Ultimate, I’m at least good enough to make upsets at a local with Pac-Man. I made it to top 32. Oh, as for my friend? He couldn’t keep up with Ultimate, I was better than him from the start, especially since we both played it starting on launch month (it was a Christmas gift from my parents, alongside my Switch, which was brand new at the time). I always mowed the lawn with him because I was just… Better.

I’ve always wanted to see smash 4 bayo fight brawl meta knight. would be interesting

The OS combo Coney dropped about Mew2King

I'm not into smash but smash community stuff is the best! Also pretty sure I saw some of these back when they came out!

very nice and informative video!

10:50 ! Don’t talk about me and my fox mccloud that way!!1!1!

I only knew about cloud nair not down air lol

Right when I was craving some coney

Will never forget people saying Bayonetta didn't need to be banned, just patched After development already ended.