Understanding Religious Conversion (and Deconversion)

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Douglas Beaumont

Douglas Beaumont

3 жыл бұрын

Religious conversion / deconversion is often thought to be a gradual process akin to a freeway on-ramp. Another model, however, has proven successful and more accurate in the scientific and sociological fields that I think can be fruitfully applied to the religious conversion experience. When this model is understood, it has the benefit of explaining why people behave differently at different stages and what response is most appropriate at each stage.
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Пікірлер: 58
@ferazonyteologia
@ferazonyteologia Жыл бұрын
Great video! I was Catholic (raised), I became Evangelical for about 5-6 years, then I came back to Catholicism.
@krzysztofglinka
@krzysztofglinka 17 күн бұрын
Great video! I was Catholic (raised), I became Evangelical/Protestant for a few years, then I became Unitarian and eventually Christadelphian.
@riverasamuel911
@riverasamuel911 10 ай бұрын
This is a Great and fascinating video, i would like to comment a longer content. but really it resonated with me. I was born in a baptist first non denom family, the religion shift of my family was brought by my granny, who is verily the antitesis to "submit to a religious authority" (except herself ofc) and IIRC i traveled across all those steps (and my brother who followed me after, he even got baptized before me :) ) and now that Douglas mentioned it that the catholic faith paradigm says that faith is a wilfull submision to a religious authority, hits on the spot !
@filiusvivam4315
@filiusvivam4315 9 ай бұрын
Excellent discussion. Thank you.
@dianamitchell3555
@dianamitchell3555 Жыл бұрын
Wow! Your information is exactly what I have been searching for. So clear & understandable. Thank you for putting this content out for others to learn from. Very grateful for your insight!
@xenofonz7640
@xenofonz7640 3 жыл бұрын
Glory to the Triune God. A lot of your discussions equally apply to those "converting" from Protestantism to Greek Orthodox. In spite of the Schism, we do have a lot in common, more so than many realise. I actually went through a more complex process. My family roots are Greek Orthodox and I strayed to and tested several other denominations, not all Protestant (and far worse), but eventually circled back to my roots and now I am settled. Let’s rejoice as one true Church of our Lord and God Jesus Christ. God Bless.
@DouglasBeaumont
@DouglasBeaumont 3 жыл бұрын
Yeah I love the Orthodox spirituality and their liturgies are amazing!
@aadschram5877
@aadschram5877 2 жыл бұрын
Doug, very powerful.
@user-zx1sm8bg3c
@user-zx1sm8bg3c Жыл бұрын
Dear Dr. Beaumont, If it's possible, would you please make a video dealing with a loneliness of converts on his/her journey from group A to group B (before/during/after the religious conversion)? Thank you.
@DouglasBeaumont
@DouglasBeaumont Жыл бұрын
That wasn't really my experience actually but I can see how it could be for many people.
@Forester-
@Forester- Жыл бұрын
Douglas I don't know if you'll see this but I'd love a more in depth video on the Catholic paradigm and how it differs from Protestantism.
@DouglasBeaumont
@DouglasBeaumont Жыл бұрын
I'll keep that in mind! My "conversion" story explains a lot about it even if indirectly.
@billlee2194
@billlee2194 Жыл бұрын
Hey Douglas, I bought Smith's book based solely on the title which I love!. Thanks for the recomendation. I'm Catholic now but trying to figure out my previous Baptist faith. I think this book will be helpful.
@DouglasBeaumont
@DouglasBeaumont Жыл бұрын
I think it will!
@isaachess19
@isaachess19 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this video. I am a recent Catholic convert, and have been struggling lately with my newfound faith (I suppose I'm in that "resistance" process right now, trying to re-enter "stasis" unsuccessfully). The crisis within the church has really been brought to the forefront for me, and it definitely has caused me to "drift" and sometimes re-enter "crisis," unsure of what to do. I very much appreciated your thought that "faith is the willful submission to a religious authority." I've never thought of it this way before, but it makes sense. I think I have never *really* reckoned with the idea of the Papacy, and have approached Catholicism so far as a "set of beliefs" that I was mostly argued into: the episcopacy, the eucharist, the sacraments, etc. The Papacy seemed logical when I converted (baptized only a few months ago!), but recent controversies and the realization of the crisis in the church, worldwide -- and what seems a real lack of leadership from the Pope -- have caused me to question and wonder. These are, so to speak, the "aberrations" I just don't have an answer to right now. I'll need to think on this more. If you have any resources to suggest, please let me know. I'm really struggling with all this.
@DouglasBeaumont
@DouglasBeaumont 2 жыл бұрын
Many faithful Catholics are concerned about the current leadership of the Church. There is so much misinformation out there too, it's hard to sift through. My advice is to take the bigger view and remember why you became Catholic - probably not the current Bishops / Pope. Focus on the CHURCH and not this or that leader or scandal (both of which the Church has had from the very beginning!).
@VACatholic
@VACatholic 2 жыл бұрын
One thing to consider, as pointed out in "Pope Peter" by Joe Heschmeyer, is that while Peter is the rock on which Christ will build His Church, he's also the stumbling stone that will cause people to fall. All that to say, the Pope is the Pope. He is in charge, and he will have to answer to God for everything he does. Your job is to pray for the Pope, and to do the best you can to become a saint, especially if you see problems in the Church. Like the Pope, you will be judged for what you do and do not do, so focus on that, and don't let your peace be stolen, because ultimately that is exactly what satan wants. He wants you to worry about anything else but your own journey.
@walcuppernell2931
@walcuppernell2931 3 жыл бұрын
Amazing content as usual!
@DouglasBeaumont
@DouglasBeaumont 3 жыл бұрын
Glad you think so!
@1984SheepDog
@1984SheepDog 3 жыл бұрын
Is it true that the coauthor of Norman Geislers book "Is Rome the true church" Joshua Betancourt ended up converting to Catholicism as well?
@DouglasBeaumont
@DouglasBeaumont 3 жыл бұрын
Yup. In fact the publisher pulled the books off the shelf and only Norm had them for sale after that. Joshua's story is in my book Evangelical Exodus: amzn.to/3fc2mu6. :)
@1984SheepDog
@1984SheepDog 3 жыл бұрын
@@DouglasBeaumont ha! Praise God! Thank you
@spiritsciences2012
@spiritsciences2012 11 ай бұрын
Dispensationalism. Can you explain it for me? This concept makes sense to me. Thanks! Wayne 😇
@joejohnston3
@joejohnston3 Жыл бұрын
This was an awesome video - so very helpful, and helps me to understand my own experience, which mirrors exactly the stages that you described. I loved how you noted that resistance comes AFTER the shift - yes, yes it does, and it's powerful. My own journey through this whole process took 15-20 years, maybe longer. My one question is the following: It seems like the conversion process that you are describing concerns "good faith" conversions - honest doubts leading to an honest change of heart (for right or for wrong). However, a lot of deconversions that I see seem not to be made in good faith, but made out of - for example - a desire to live in sin without feeling guilty about it. So, not a "good faith" situation. Does the same conversion process still apply? I was trying to work that out and couldn't quite come to a yes or a no. Love your channel - thanks! Diana
@DouglasBeaumont
@DouglasBeaumont Жыл бұрын
Wow, this is probably the most interesting comment I've gotten on this channel thank you! I'll have to think more on this, but my first thought was that perhaps the desire to act against what one believes would count as a perceived aberration - not within the paradigm but between it and life. At that point, the will is directing the intellect to find a resolution between what is desired and what is allowed. If the paradigm won't change, or an adjustment cannot realistically be made to it, another must be sought. The rest could play out as described. The "bad faith" aspect would likely be located in one's rationalization of such a conversion - blaming alleged problems with the previous paradigm itself when the issue is really just one's dislike of it. I've definitely seen this happen. I'm interested in your thoughts on this!
@joejohnston3
@joejohnston3 Жыл бұрын
@@DouglasBeaumont Thanks for the response! I think that you are right. It seems like the main difference would be in the honesty of one's motivation in perceiving the original aberrations. Are they made in honest observation of discrepancies between the original worldview and reality, or are they created dishonestly out of bad motives - as previously stated, the desire to live in sin without feeling guilty about it, or the desire not to feel guilty about the moral choices that one children's are making (I see this happen when someone's children choose to live in some form of sexual perversion, and the parents eventually become pro-sin because they can't stand the tension/guilt/etc. of living with that burden), or sometimes out of sheer spiritual laziness. As you say, the cycle can proceed from there. I think - as you mentioned - this would take quite some time to think out in detail, but it's an interesting line of thought. Thank you again so much for your thoughts, and thanks for the channel! Looking forward to seeing more of your videos! Diana
@joejohnston3
@joejohnston3 Жыл бұрын
I should note that when I say "dishonesty," I am not referring to conscious dishonesty, i.e. "I am telling a lie," but to self-deception, a skill at which we humans excel, and which I should imagine would figure largely in the deconversion process. Another interesting scenario to work through with this diagram would be a deconversion that is spear-headed not by the individual undergoing the deconversion, but which is engineered artificially by others - that is, indoctrination in a school setting, from, say, Christianity to atheism or a woke mentality. Both of those situations would be interesting to see in light of the conversion diagram. Cheers! Diana
@myrddingwynedd2751
@myrddingwynedd2751 Жыл бұрын
It seems I have been way too hard on protestants in my discourses with them, and I guess that means I've been uncharitable. The part where you talk about reading Scott Hahn and basically not getting it shows how difficult it can be for protestants. There must be a huge level of cognitive dissonance to be able to overlook cogent arguments, and I guess I've failed to understand that. I've just thought of protestants as stubborn, prideful and dishonest, because I can't understand how they don't get it. I've often been in debates with some on youtube, only for them to fall completely silent when a point I've made becomes crystal clear to them and they can't refute it, but have then seen the same person arguing against Catholicism on another video with another Catholic a few months later whom they perceive to be less knowledgeable in their faith, and this I find to be a very prideful and perhaps malicious attitude. I personally am a cradle Catholic who in 2012 became convinced Catholicism was wrong due to a highly conspiratorial anti Catholic video I saw on KZfaq. I didn't have enough knowledge of the faith, or of any historical context at the time to be able to refute it, and so left the church for a time, although this didn't lead me to seek out a protestant denomination to join, I just drifted for a few years. Of course, when I discovered that the video was nonsense, I came back, and I owe a lot to Catholic answers for that. I guess I have a bit of anger in me towards certain types of protestants, especially the vehemently anti Catholic ones, for almost causing me to lose my faith in Catholicism. Anyway, I need to do better in my discourses with protestants and be kinder, your video has shown me that. Thanks and God bless. PS. You should have way more subscribers.
@DouglasBeaumont
@DouglasBeaumont Жыл бұрын
That is a beautiful testimony, thank you for being willing to share it!
@rsk5660
@rsk5660 Жыл бұрын
@@DouglasBeaumont This is my second comment tonight. I hope you don't mind. I found the above comment about anti catholics who were refuted going off and finding other catholics to argue with very interesting. I used to be a protestant evangelical trinitarian, but through my own bible study, I came to the conclusion that the trinity was false. I now try to converse with trinitarians and find some people just not able to answer some of my questions, or they give what I think are ridiculous answers. I find your comment in the video that you could not find a good answer from protestants about how we got the cannon a good argument which I may not yet have a satisfactory answer for you. What do you think of the possibility of two different paradigms having equally different "difficult questions" for each other? Thanks
@DouglasBeaumont
@DouglasBeaumont Жыл бұрын
@@rsk5660 What a great question! I think that is demonstrably the case - for example with "end time" views that's exactly what I teach. In fact I'm not sure different paradigms would exist unless they each had difficult questions to deal with. I don't think that means the playing field is level, but it does show that few, if any, can 100% claim the high ground. (Of course with regard to the Trinity there are no difficulties whatsoever and only ignorant people can't see that . . . LOL!)
@canibezeroun1988
@canibezeroun1988 Жыл бұрын
I'm trying to get this to be a thing but a Protestant who becomes Catholic should be called an invert. Frankly you're inverting on one main issue to get you in place.
@DouglasBeaumont
@DouglasBeaumont Жыл бұрын
LOL!
@rsk5660
@rsk5660 Жыл бұрын
Hi, I went through this whole paradigm shift over a period of years, coming to the conclusion that the trinity was not right. So, obviously I now think the church went down the wrong road at some stage, by misunderstanding some scriptures.. The evangelical church has disowned me, of course, but this attitude has been carried over from the catholic church. I think the church should have room for people like me who have a different point of view, rather than seeing them as heretics. After all, how can one group be so confident that they are right. I can put up with trinitarians because I used to be one myself, and I was one with a good conscience. I can't understand why the trinitarian paradigm has to include seeing people outside that paradigm as heretics. I'm not suggesting that there are no heretics. Has the catholic church made any room for people like myself? Thanks
@I12Db8U
@I12Db8U Жыл бұрын
So you're *not* Trinitarian. The Catholic Church baptizes adults upon their confession of *faith.* Not upon simply stating what they're *not.* So what *are* you? Atheist? Oneness Pentecostal? Mormon? JW? Or none of the above nor any other community, because you're too righteous, cool, and free thinking to actually agree with anybody?
@rsk5660
@rsk5660 Жыл бұрын
@@I12Db8U As I said, I came to the conclusion that the bible did not teach the trinity, meaning I still believe the bible and therefore I would still consider myself to be a Christian. I think some in the church misunderstood a few texts, which resulted in them changing the God of Abraham who raised his holy servant Jesus from the dead, to being three persons, changing Jesus from being God's holy servant, God's anointed to being part of a three person God. That is what I come up with when I read the scriptures, ie that Jesus is God's anointed, not God. If the catholic church comes up with something else, scripture would teach us to tolerate each other, because we are brethren, because God accepts us the way we are, because we are weak etc. I don't think one man can tell another man how to think. Paul said, not that I would lord it over your faith.
@I12Db8U
@I12Db8U Жыл бұрын
@@rsk5660 So you don't think Jesus is uncreated, right? Do you think Jesus is logos?
@rsk5660
@rsk5660 Жыл бұрын
@@I12Db8U It could be that Jesus was created in the womb of Mary. There are scriptures that seem to say that there is one God, the Father, and that Jesus is his anointed, King of Israel, Son of God. There are other scriptures that say things like Jesus is the Lord from heaven. Rather than say these contradict each other I tend to think the idea that God is one person - the Father, and that Jesus is a sinless man fits the narrative of the bible best, simply because that is the way the writers speak in the vast majority of the time. The scriptures that make people think Jesus is God are obviously a problem to me, but because they are in the vast minority, I interpret them, just like we all don't think Peter is Satan, even though Jesus calls him Satan. Does God expect me to do this? Well we use this method all the time, so, I don't see why not.
@DouglasBeaumont
@DouglasBeaumont Жыл бұрын
Thinking that anyone's interpretation should be acceptable is exactly the problem Protestantism created. An inspired writing that can mean anything is useless.
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