Why 'Focusing' Meditations are Wrong | by Ajahn Nyanamoli Thero

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Hillside Hermitage

Hillside Hermitage

4 жыл бұрын

Describing the contradiction that is contained in today's contemporary meditation practices. Why today's meditations can provide a person with novelty peaceful experiences, but cannot lead to Right Understanding.
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Пікірлер: 35
@loganbrown8470
@loganbrown8470 3 жыл бұрын
Wow, for so long I have assumed mindfulness to be “perspectiveless” or “subjectless” awareness. But as you beautifully put it, the awakened person simply “stops appropriating their subjectivity”. Your sharing of your understandings is a real gift to the few of us paying attention.
@ivritisrael5080
@ivritisrael5080 4 жыл бұрын
This feels I’m there, but I’m here and now. 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
@asimunmesh3521
@asimunmesh3521 3 жыл бұрын
Venerables, From my experience, of "keeping" my focus on the triangle area of the nose, I realised that my focus kept getting diverted by some distracting thoughts which arose. Thus, in order to focus on the triangle area, I also started "catching" thoughts/phenomenas and discerning that they are distracting in nature. Further I started discerning that thoughts were coming by themselves and I was getting distracted if I indulged with them in any manner. All of this understanding arose by me trying to "keep" the "focus of my attention" unwaveringly on the triangle area. (while other part of my attention caught phenomenas which could distract me. Also, all the while I also discerned that the sensations which arose in the triangle area were coming and going, by themselves. Thus I also saw to certain extent the impermanence of those sensations.). I have 2 related questions: 1. If a "focusing meditation" is done like this, is it wrong? If yes, can you please explain why? If it is right, is it because I am taking the direction of peripheral, or for some other reason? 2. I understand that the right meditation is the one which brings about the discernment of the nature of arisen phenomena . Did I understand it correctly? If I did, is it the only criteria for right meditation? Sadhu
@restlez2002
@restlez2002 2 жыл бұрын
Wonderful, with many detailed examples. Sadhu sadhu sadhu
@Countcordeaux
@Countcordeaux 4 жыл бұрын
"Vaya-dhamma sankhāra; appamādena sampadetha" ti makes more sense in light of these talks. Sādhu /|\
@hariharry391
@hariharry391 5 сағат бұрын
🙏
@RickNuthman
@RickNuthman 2 жыл бұрын
There is nothing wrong with cultivating concentration, but don't get trapped in it or believe that it leads to liberation. Ultimately if we want to wake up to our true nature we have to allow the opposite of focus to happen. Our attention must become diffuse. Remember, you can't turn a flashlight back on itself. The source of the light is not a thing, so it cannot be observed with a subject/object relationship. An easy way to think of it: If you can bring your attention to it, it isn't what you are looking for.
@robbiepeterh
@robbiepeterh 4 жыл бұрын
Excellent channel.
@Viscid
@Viscid 2 жыл бұрын
There's an assertion made at 30:52 by Nyanamoli Thero about the relationship between vedanā and phantom limb syndrome, but I think it's unclear. He seems to suggest that the unpleasantness of phantom limb syndrome is purely vedanā, but the sensations people experience with the disorder are often very localized (though localized beyond their body,) which contradicts the non-local nature of vedanā. If he was just saying how feeling and perception not necessarily bound together, why bring up phantom limb syndrome at all? Does phantom limb syndrome challenge Theravadin phenomenology?
@TheEpicTrainChannel
@TheEpicTrainChannel 4 жыл бұрын
great discussion..
@albertonandasilo
@albertonandasilo 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks Ajahn for the teachings, they help me a lot. I would like you to make a video to understand Jhana, explain how to think about it or make the interpretation of what the suttas explain about the various Jhanas, vicara, vitakka ...☸️🙏
@ThaniyoThero
@ThaniyoThero 4 жыл бұрын
Here is a link to one of Ajahn's talks which addresses Jhana: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fJyBi6x-qMfWdYU.html
@albertonandasilo
@albertonandasilo 4 жыл бұрын
Okay, Thanks Ajahn Thaniyo. Greetings from Madrid 🙏
@brotheronthepath
@brotheronthepath 4 жыл бұрын
yo these are so cool....saaaatu 3x very helpful bhante...
@bayee2169
@bayee2169 4 жыл бұрын
Hi, anyone know which sutta mentioned the smilies of meditate like an owl and jackal trying to catch their prey?
@dominikrusiecki3928
@dominikrusiecki3928 3 жыл бұрын
I was only able to find this one: suttacentral.net/mn50/en/sujato, however it's in a slightly different context (people criticizing the Buddha's disciples). But the same verbs are used for describing the wrong kind of meditation here: suttacentral.net/an11.9/en/sujato, where lack of escape from sensuality is mentioned. So when you put these two together you kinda get the meaning implied in the video.
@ceruleandusk
@ceruleandusk 4 жыл бұрын
The way he described the "proper" practice of meditation reminds me of the practice of "just sitting" they do in Zen Buddhism, where you are not focusing on anything but at the same time not getting distracted by anything, so the effort goes into staying aware in the present moment and not "focusing" on an particular object like he said staying at the game and watching people come in and go out without following them. Does this make sense? Is it correct practice?
@pk.hiriko
@pk.hiriko 4 жыл бұрын
No, that is not the point Ajahn Nyanamoli is making. I suggest you listen to one or more talks by the Ajahn (esp. "Guided Contemplations") and you might get a better sense.
@narren3729
@narren3729 4 жыл бұрын
Yes it reminds of what we do in zen. Zazen is more like an open attentiveness to the present moment
@anattasunnata3498
@anattasunnata3498 4 жыл бұрын
I may be wrong, but maybe both the attitude described in this video (ever-increasing focusing on objects) and the idea of focusing on nothing in particular, are ways that forget and leave aside the idea developing the direct experience of the nature of things (anatta, anicca and dukkha) though peripheral awareness towards the things "contacted" (phassa). That direct experience allows the mind to let go, and to abide in non-activity, not appropiating any phenomena that may arise. Kind regards!
@bsways
@bsways 8 ай бұрын
From my understanding on retreat and reading etc we initially concentrate on the breath until we reach 'access concentration' then we watch where the attention goes such as on thoughts, feelings sounds etc. We recognise where the attention is and we investigate that sensation until it has gone then gently bring the attention back to the breath. Is this correct.
@bukolosbakchos8276
@bukolosbakchos8276 4 жыл бұрын
Does practice make sense in normal life? greetings
@JS-hc4ok
@JS-hc4ok 3 жыл бұрын
Venerables, does this mean that the many meditators that have used single object meditations are wrong? They describe accessing jhana directly through a single meditation object.
@rihhard1072
@rihhard1072 3 жыл бұрын
Thats the teaching here, yes. That those type of meditations are wrong and are not jhana but rather a novelty experience.
@PeckiePeck
@PeckiePeck 2 жыл бұрын
@@rihhard1072 Kind of makes me wonder if those people have achieved that experience through single object meditation and compared it against the jhana factors and determined it didn't qualify.
@hansenmarc
@hansenmarc Ай бұрын
19:13 MN 50 Māratajjanīyasutta: The Rebuke of Māra: “We practice absorption meditation! We practice absorption meditation!” Slouching, downcast, and dopey, they meditate and concentrate and contemplate and ruminate. They’re just like an owl on a branch, which meditates and concentrates and contemplates and ruminates as it hunts a mouse. They’re just like a jackal on a river-bank, which meditates and concentrates and contemplates and ruminates as it hunts a fish.
@yunshen
@yunshen 3 жыл бұрын
Mindfulness of sensations are closer to mindfulness of sense stimuli or pressure (phassa) rather than vedana (affective feelings).
@SanditthikoAkaliko
@SanditthikoAkaliko 8 ай бұрын
14:30
@chadkline4268
@chadkline4268 9 ай бұрын
It's not wrong, it's 100% correct to do. The time to stop focusing will happen by itself, because the body+mind will vanish. Samatha meditation until there is no mind or body, then you'll have no choice but to investigate how to move beyond. You'll still have intent to direct awareness probes. Sometimes I wonder if monks speak beyond their knowledge.
@deathburrito2424
@deathburrito2424 9 ай бұрын
There may be some helpful information in this video but I can't seem to get past Ajahn Nyanamoli Thero's know-it-all attitude and ego. His personality seems very egoistic and I find it to be a turn off. Maybe it's just me.
@ivritisrael5080
@ivritisrael5080 4 жыл бұрын
Make video shorter. Straight to the point.
@dassavilokantara439
@dassavilokantara439 4 жыл бұрын
Rubcho AUA I have to disagree with this point. 🙏🏼
@pk.hiriko
@pk.hiriko 4 жыл бұрын
There are many much shorter videos of Ajahn Nyanamoli on his channel.
@ivritisrael5080
@ivritisrael5080 4 жыл бұрын
I know. Fan. But yes This is for the ones that have time . But this topic was good. We have a tendency to start getting bored and seeing next video. I had to sleep also. But it's ok
@ivritisrael5080
@ivritisrael5080 4 жыл бұрын
Dassavi Lokantara i know. Its good. Been listening to it. Little by little
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