Always a pleasure to work with you Remleiz! I hope you all enjoy our captivating voices!

"I wanted to protect my sons, so I yeeted them into Hell" Erda

Techpriest: My Lord, why do we need to surround your laboratory with our most powerful Gellar Field? Man Emperor of Mankind: No reason. No reason at all.

Thank you for having me as Konrad Curze!!! It was so much fun to portray someone on the edge of madness!!!!

"Yes, now they're safe away from him" The emperor after he learns the butcher's nails is slowly killing Angron and he can't remove them "Look what she did to my boy..."

Astrates basically enacted the worst custody battle in galactic history and now the Emperor only gets his kids during weekends and holidays

ARGEL TAL! YOU CAN'T DO THAT! YOU WILL CREATE A TIME PARADOX! *MGS3 game over theme*

If the Emperor really chose the planets then he REALLY wanted to abort Angron.

Alpharius: What do you believe? A. Chaos Gods scattering the Primarchs. or B. How Karen took the kids, the Warhammer 40k way.

"I'm sorry sons that I threw you into the sea of literal mind r*ape and scatterd you unto different worlds, some of which enslaved, used, tried to kill and mutated you beyond recognition. But you see, me and your dad just wanted different things and in these kinda things there are no good guys and bad guys, just people trying to do whats best." I'm gonna stick to the word bearers scattering them, as they cost me significantly less brains cells to process what happened.

You forgot the Theory where GW realizes they layed a Gigantic turd with this and retcons the conversation/events out of Canon.

The scattering did not suit the Emperor's plans and did no favour to a good part of the primarchs. Malcador made it clear that they would have wanted more time to educate and instruct the primarchs. So I question that any of this could have been part of E's plans. Maybe though he did foresee such an event. Erda makes little sense...

Yes the unhappy mother scattered them, but what did she use to achieve it? A spell? A warp gate? A deal with the devil? Did anyone explain that tiny detail?!

I think Erda is an unreliable narrorator. She was possibly corrupted herself by the chaos gods even and manipulated by them to do what she did. What sane woman would throw her children into the warp after all? Especially one in the Emperor's inner circle who might even know of it's horrors more indepth.

Emperor: what are you doing? Erda: what am I doing? Emperor: thwarting my plans? Erda: thwarting your plans? Emperor: well are you? Erda: no? Emperor: good cause that'd be bad Erda: how bad? Emperor: id have to kill you bad Erda: that's bad Emperor: indeed.. that's a stupid looking watch you have

I will stick with the chaos god's scattering the primarchs. Creates more mystery. The other idea that some random woman was the cause of the primarchs scattering, is just silly and not logical.

It's important to note that Fulgrim was supposed to land on Chogoris and the Khan on Chemos; someone swapped them at the last minute.

"Who was responsible?" It was Alphariu- wait

I tend to believe the Chaos gods actually DID surprise Emps I’m stealing his sons, but then he quickly went Avatar mode and forced them out of the Warp and luckily put them on planets that would fit them. And “Gene-Mother”?? (Fuck off on that one, GW)

Simple explanation: the fool that wrote saturnine didn't read the first heretic

I still think part of the scattering is related to the Emperor's pact with the four he made on Molech. Admittedly there is no direct evidence, but the pact was to spread the worship of chaos across humanity and that's definitely the case now. Regardless of how the Emperor turned his back on Chaos after it was made the pact was ultimately fulfilled.

It was the will of Gork and Mork.

Konrads voice sounds bad ass😍 ... also best mother award goes to Erda who yeeted the babys into the the warp *clap clap

I really think this was engineered by the Emperor, as I believe he also engineered events much further back in history.

"Erda, you vile wench! Give me my kids back!" ~The Emperor

The book "false gods" describes how the Emperor stopped the Primarch's capsules in flight (the first to fly into the warp was the capsule that Horus struck - 11th Primarch's Capsule) ... but then, looked at Horus, and released the rest of the capsules ! all, except for the eleventh, the emperor could not let go ... if he wanted

“Hey, Vegeta. Watch me execute this criminal.”

I wish I could remember the Horus Heresy book it is in but there are Demons talking about how they chose the planets the Primarchs landed on.

My impression is that The Emperor saw that the Chaos Gods were going to try to sabotage the project, but also realised that if it was messed with by someone else's hand, it could still be salvaged rather than lost. One future would have led to the certain ruination of his scheme, the other held a chance of it still being workable, so he rolled the dice. To this end, he used the opportunity Urda's attempt provided to push the infant Primarchs into worlds that would at least resemble environments he intended for them. Her actions were still sabotage of his design, but one designed to save rather than destroy the Primarchs, so it was by far the preferable option. Unfortunately, many of the environments were not perfect. Angron ending up with the Butcher's Nails, for example, was an unforseen concequence of this gamble, as was Lorgar's fanaticism. What little we know of the Lost Primarchs also points to the unpredictable outcomes of this gambit too, which is why they needed to be expunged. All the others more or less abided by the Emperor's designs, but these two may not have. If they ended up developing into vastly different people than intended, such as being influenced by xenos influence in their formation, then they would have represented wildcards that could not be afforded and were removed because of it.

Can't actually recall ever hearing the Thunder Warriors high gothic name before. Thank Remleiz!

Wait...how long has Erda been around for?! I mean in the lore, I'm only hearing about her now!

So basically Karen take the kids

40kis really cool yet infiuriating, how is It possible that everytime something happens its always so messy on the details, at this point i wouldnt be surprised if the reason Theres so little concrete evedence is because the emporore accidentally spilled coffee on his diary after the primarks were scattered

I think Erda is the biggest canonical mess that GW has ever created and pushed upon the lore for no reason whatsoever.

Erda is the villain of all villains then. She caused the inevitable destruction of Mankind.

Erda: taking away the emperor sons from him to bring them to a even worse fate of a slow bleed of Hersey Great idea

THANK YOU Remleiz for doing this vid! I know it's bein a while since I asked but im glad I waited!

Emperor damn it I love your channel, for years now I listen to your voice and I love it. Please keep making videos

I would love to see a what if scenario where the Primarchs all end up on the same planet and thus grow up together. It would be interesting to theorize how they would shape one another's development.

"I know! I'll take my boys on a lovely holiday!" "Balls."

I believe, as stated in the video, that a mixture of all three possibilities is the truth. As Curze said, the Emperor can see the future. It's most likely that, much to his despair, the Emperor saw that he could not train his Primarchs effectively and keep the Chaos Gods away from them. So instead, he let it happen, but on his terms. He let the Word Bearers destroy the Gellar Field, he let Erda cast the Primarchs into the warp, but using his immense power he ensured that each son would be sent to a world where he would thrive and continue the path the Emperor had originally planned for him. This way, He most likely believed the Chaos Gods would rest on their laurels and not intervene in the Primarchs lives any further before the Emperor could find and reintegrate them into the fold.

Glad you covered this topic today. Been wondering about it

A very extremely awesome video as always 40k Theories.

if the emperor really did had a hand in scattering his son's, then a new question would be. why?

Erda: _attempts to sabotage Big E's plans by scattering the Primarchs_ Big E: _steeples fingers and smirks_ "Just as planned." Tzeentch: "OI! THAT'S MY THING ASSHOLE!"

I'm surprised no mention of Horus's vision of the gene labs and him seeing the pods being cast into the Warp.

A act that caused so much strife, so much death, that it was thought to have been prepatraited by DEMONIC GOD'S is contributed to.................................................a angry woman. 5 out of 10 for story telling, 10 out of 10 realism.

tricking the Chaos Gods into thinking they accomplished one of their goals while it was secretly one of the Emperor's goals that he influenced the outcome of seems like a very Emperor thing to do

Reading the future in 40K is difficult, you often get many conflicting visions. The Emperor understood this and simply insured a win condition for every scenario.

Can we just appreciate for a moment how fucking meta Konrad Curze's quote is here? He, *in universe* , is referring to himself and his brothers as *Characters* questioning whether or not they were placed where they ended up deliberately by their Father (read "Creator") that you can easily interpret as Games Workshop, pondering if it was all part of some grand design. Damn dude.

You just blew my mind, this is the very best WH40K channel indeed.

I'd take anything Curse says about fate with a massive amount of salt.

Erda is a worse parent than Emps. She claims to care yet scattered them without knowing if they would survive, or even have good parents to raise them. Then she never went to look for them. What did Emps do? Halted most of his plans and gathered his forces just to find his children. What was he gonna do? Use them to bring humanity forward. And people say Emps doesn’t care.

Wasnt part of the reason Horus was angry at the Emperor because he saw the him walk into the room before the pods went into the warp rift and just kinda let it happen? I know its time travel/Chaos vision but I got the feeling Horus knew the Emperor could have stopped it but didnt

Nice video man. Great job on the content

He did seem pretty calm when facing ghost Horus, I thought. Like "oh no. Whatever you do, don't scatter yourself. Waaiiit..."

Chaos Gods : We will ruin his Primarchs project, lmao. Emperor of Mankind : **Yeeted them into the warp** Chaos Gods : **Surprised Pikachu face**

From a gore-soaked data slate encased in warp ice, dated to the Horus Heresy, but used only minutes ago ... Tech Priests familiar with such warp oddities have verified its recording to be an authentic artifact of Konrad Curze, VIII Legion Primarch. "My childhood? Mum, Dad, Argel Tal and the Hole-in-the-Plot Ghost? I actually like to think of it as being multiple choice, like which lookalike is in charge of the Alpha Legion. But I haven't been this bummed since I learned my real name from The Blinding Blind Bungler. Mom's name is Erda? How many of you kids out there thought your parents' first name sucked the first time you heard it? I can only imagine HIS real name. (mumbles ... Moe?) "But yeah, it's amusing how The Great Golden Farseer (HA!) picked our legions. Gives me Terra's criminals. I mean, what, am I supposed to do? Kill them for the insult to Night Haunter? Rehab them as Konrad Curze, this avenging raptor of the Emperor's law? Perfect them as vicious psychological warfare soldiers, which was the hidden motive behind Terra's Holy Mastermind? Pfft. Whatevs. Honestly, my bunch doesn't matter; I failed on all three counts and they're a worthless legion of losers anyway. But I figure that's better than Magnus' kids and how Grandpa Golden Throne treated them and Mags ... 'Here son, here are your sick children; you're smart, I'm sure you'll find a cure for them turning inside out from warp madness. I got to be at the gym in 26 minutes -- BYE!!!' "PS Oh, and thank you for not making me sound like a backwoods Vostroyan or Valhallan auditioning as ancient Terran warlord Vlad Tepes like in the earlier video, cyberdonged one."

this is why i sub on 2 accounts. when youtube fails to notify me on one, i still get it on the other :D

I thought that Cegorach had a hand in swapping out the worlds that Fulgrim and Jaghatai landed on as a way to mess with Slannesh's plans.

The Emperor's baby mama drama.

I quite like the theory that the deal the Emperor made at Moloch was less about increasing his powers and more about acquiring various Warp entities or shards thereof to serve as the souls of his Primarchs. This would posit that the reason the Primarchs ended up on worlds suited to their natures was because they were, on a subconsious level, in control of their path through the Warp as infants. This would also explain why they ended up on planets at all, despite how incredibly unlikely that is to happen by random chance. I think it likely the Emperor knew it was coming but was still trying to avert it. Redundant Gellar fields, such that both Erda and Argel Tal both had to deactivate different ones to make the scattering possible, etc. When they were scattered anyway, vengeance was not sought against Erda simply because he couldn't blame her for something he'd already known was going to happen one way or another. Similar to Kurze going fatalistic in response to his own visions, but only going fatalistic after he'd failed to thwart it rather than before like Kurze. I think he did see as far as the 42nd Millenium, but I think he was dealing with a multitude of possible futures rather than one unified vision of history. Chaos being what it is, you can't predict its actions with perfect accuracy, so he had to do a lot of hedging of his bets, a lot of putting contingencies in place to avert the worst possible futures and prepare countermeasures for bad futures he couldn't fully avert. Preparations for other futures that never ended up coming to pass, like the village he had in the Palace for the Primarchs to be raised in. He is pitting his own human will against the fundamental forces of the cosmos and the darker parts of human nature at the same time. No one ever said it was going to be easy, or even a sure win. Even for someone as powerful as the Emperor.

This to me confirms that Big E wanted or was at least expecting a counter play from chaos, and was expecting the great heresy

Gotta love that someone seeing the Emperor for the mad man he is, a mass murderer beyond the scope of compare, is not seen as a good enough reason to not give him the kids to some people.

I have one crazy theory, what if Scattering was all Emperors work, done so to give both him and his troops a solid reason to launch Great Crusade and start the conquest, without questioning if this idea isn't overly ambitious and megalomanic, just to give his people reason to believe they don't do conquest just for sake of it

Konrad is always considered insane but that dude will spit some seriously interesting and thought provoking shit....

It's Erda and the word bearers! She fled to cadia trying to escape the emperor's wrath, she lived there by the name of Ingathel thinking she had saved her sons. Once she saw the astartes and her son Lorgar, she thought that her plan had not worked, so she went in the warp with the word beares to scatter them, that way helping her past self and making a causal loop

The irda story sounds like maybe she was the one who tipped off chaos to exactly what was happening, and the word bearers became the tools used to do it. She would take credit, they did it....

Consider the 20 suites of unused Primarch quarters that Corvus found

The Emperor is definitely a master of plans within plans, so I could see him having a contingency in mind for this sort of eventuality.

Takahata really hit it out of the park with Kurze.

The emperor had foresight so maybe he saw what was going to happen but instead of fighting it he allowed it to happen but on his terms maybe the chaos God's wanted to throw the primarchs in the warp where they would never be found but the emperor will is what made them land on planet's within the imperiam but still not to the point where he knew what worlds they landed on but still knowing that they wasn't lost in the warp for ever. Great video man really interesting.

Idea for video Given that Primarchs and their legions had roles in his grand design and even Belisarius Cawl comments that bring back there gen seeds will help fill the Emperor's original plans any idea what were the two missing combat roles for the two missing legions?

Well if it was the Emperor's own plan, it explains a lot about Angron and the Butcher's Nails...

I believe the fickle whims of the warp itself deposited the nascent primarchs on worlds most in tune with them.

I would say that Argal Tal Likely gave Erda the opportunity to to scatter the primarchs by destroying the Gellar field generator. While either she or the emperor managed to guide them to planets that suited their personalities. I think that while the emperor could definitely see the future he couldn’t see all of it such as how he didn’t know how the heresy would end and needed the Astropath to tell him the outcome.

My question for the Imperial side of things has always been why, with enough samples and enough scientists left knowledgeable about the processes, the Emperor couldn't have made replacement Primarchs if he was desperate. The quotes from some of them about their own nature being that of the Warp makes some sense in that regard, if they're in fact one time deals and creations that he couldn't actually replicate, but I dunno. Erda wasn't very forthcoming on that path, but she seems not to have considered he might just make more, perhaps, again, because he legitimately couldn't and thus had to get the originals back.

Don't forget the the emperor was there when they were cast away, in the first heretic he simply waves his hand and closes the warp rift before just opening it again

I definitely think the Emperor had this figured out already. Like, specifically I'd always thought it was a bit too on the nose that Leman Russ, the primarch with wolf dna, would randomly end up on a planet called Fenris- to the point it seemed kind of stupid and immersion breaking. That being the plan all along makes it feel a lot more sensible.

Didn't Horus also go back in time during his "visions" on Davin to just as the Primarchs were scattered? As I recall, there were no Word Bearer marines there as well.

I think the reason The Emperor didn't go after Erda, is because he realized *why* she did it. Out of love for her children, and while he certainly was known to be petty and vindictive, in the various stories and interactions we've seen between him and Malcador, he truly seems to care about his sons, something I doubt he can blame their mother for also doing.

The Warp Gods within each Primarch were drawn to worlds that suited them, that's definitely how I see it. And I believe it was the Emperor's humaniy that drew him away from enacting vengenace on Erda. I like to think the Word Bearers were in a halfway point between reality and illusion, where their actions influenced the world to their eyes, but in reality the influence was indirect

“Erda took the kids in the divorce.”-Emperor of Mankind, circa. M30.

I absolutely loathe this development and hope it either gets re-re-retconned - I don't know how many we're up to now - pretty darn quick. But you did a great job of telling it, so in the spirit of not shooting the messenger I'm thumbing up the video :)

After reading the conversation between The Nighthaunter and Sanguinius, I have been wonding quite a bit about if having the primarchs was no accident and even having those sons fall to Chaos / turn traitor was part of some grand design by the Emperor ?

Takahata as Konrad sound very nice.

Was wondering when this was gonna be covered. Thanks Remleiz

Can you make a video on Erda? Never heard of her before.

holy crap, takahata101 is konrad curze? couldn't tell!

Erda, not directly the chaos gods, scattered the Primarchs. She did so on purpose thinking to delay, in her eyes, the Emperor's inevitable failure. She did not know however that the chaos gods would also intervene. Horus was there in some form, and did interact with her father, debatably the word bearers. Valdor remarks that the incident happened, and they did see and hear something, and actual custodians died. The Chaos also address this when attempting to tempt Jaghatai. They say they switched him with Fulgrim, and that the Great Khan should have landed on Chemos and not Chogoris. Vice versa also applies. Most of the stories do not conflict enough to be simultaenously true. Never forget that when the Emperor asks Horus not to do anything, after actually stopping time in the middle of the scattering, merely unpaused time, turned around, and walked away.

I don't know if there is a huge conflict between Erda and the Wordbearers' story--she says that, somehow, she shut down the energy shields protecting the Primarchs from the Chaos Gods. Afterward they were cast into the Warp, possibly because of or concurrently with the Wordbearers' incursion.

There is the possibility that he never sought vengeance because to say it bluntly emotional reasons, an eternal life is painful and full of loss, those friends who can share eternity with would be close and he may have simply understood and sympathised with their long acquaintance with one another dousing his fiery emotions, relegating his confrontation with Urda from wrathful revenge to a painful argument with an old friend he was in no rush to have (remember its implied he saw the Primarchs as tools, and to anyone that old emotional bonds would take centuries to millenia to become concrete, akin to how a human feels about a short lived pet compared to one whom we have kept for decades), after all there was an empire to forge and he had eternity to wait for their next meeting, his ambition took precedence. That and he could have been distracted by traces of Argal tal and the deamon and simply assumed them the culprit as familiarity with Urda made him discount the possibility.

Can we all just take a moment to appreciate how perfect Taka's Kurze voice is

I think the big e thought he was playing the chaos gods but he himself was the one getting played

So where does the Laughing God swapping the planets that Fulgrim and Jagatai Khan landed on come into the mix, if the Emperor had the Primarchs launched off of the moon on purpose?

Big E "Oh no, i accidentaly open a rift in the Warp. Oh no i accidentaly drop each of my sons in specific worlds."

1:58 Ah yes, and our emperor, Johnny SPESS.

Malcador: My Emperor, why are we not in pursuit of Arda ? The Emperor: . . .A mother shouldn't be punished for protecting her children. Come, we have much to do.

I'll quote lord Dadornable for this one: "Bad Parent."

Absolutely Nobody:...... Konrad: IT WAS A CONSPIRACY THEORY! Edit: To be fair, honestly I've always had the same idea. It's always seemed way too convenient for everyone to just land on a world perfectly suited to them. I always assumed it was part of whatever bet/deal Big E made when he went to the warp that first time.