I just don’t get why they could’ve kept all the lace and wings, but just hired diverse models. Like, I don’t think anyone was asking for the merchandise to change, just to expand the image.

I was soo jealous of this girl in 9th grade. She was gorgeous and I thought if that’s how normal hot girls look then I’m screwed. In college my roommates and I were watching the Victorias Secret fashion show and she was walking in it! It actually made me feel sooo much better to know the girl I compared myself to in 9th grade was actually in the top 0.001% hottest women in the world. She was never a regular hot girl. she was complete genetic lottery winner, freak of nature gorgeous. Gorgeous women like the angels are going to exist no matter what. We might as well let them shine where they shine. I liked the Victoria Secret angels because I’m buying lingerie to feel sexier than I normally feel, not to feel how I feel every other day ya know?

I swear they do “inclusivity” in the most lazy way on purpose, just to later switch up and say “well, we tried! you guys didn’t like it, it’s not us, it’s you! We have no choice!”

They added the ugliest beige plus size stuff that looked identical to the garbage kohl’s sells so it isn’t a surprise nobody wanted it. If they added pretty, lacy plus size options, it would have sold.

I don't know how it was ever NOT clear that it was a fantasy. They are called angels and they come out in dream-like sequences, or themed sequences like Heaven and Hell, etc. They were meant to be aspirational, same as sports apparel ads like you said.😆🙄

They always bitch about the brand after getting paid by the brand Idgaf about politics I just want the Angels and the fantasy bra back

Oh god the comments on this video are disgusting. As a queer plus size woman I just want lingerie that is actually cute (not beige or black or navy blue). As others have pointed out VS talked a big game about inclusivity, but barely offered any plus size options and all of their lingerie (not just plus size) started getting less cute. The cute things I do see from them just aren't offered in plus size. Which like idc it's fine I'll shop somewhere else (like Savage X Fenty). But American women average at size 16/18 now and it's not just American population that average sizes are rising. At some point you just have to accept that your brand's size is a niche expensive option in the fact that not everyone can fit in or afford it anymore especially with prices in everything rising while wages remain stagnant.

I might be old school, but I think there’s nothing wrong with sexy models to upsell the brand. I absolutely agree with plus size sizing and that’s mandatory…but what’s wrong with sexy women?

I miss the old victorias secret. I never felt victimized or diminished by their existence i just liked watching the shows man... literally. I never expected to look like them lol. This was my nfl basically and yeah it's kinda cringe but i was bummed when it died.

Victoria’s Secret fell off long before their inclusivity program every single VS within a 100 mile radius of me closed down atleast 5 years ago

This was a marketing 101 failure. They did not understand their target audience enough to make the right business decisions...

I truly miss the days when it was understood that companies were in business to make money, not to make us feel included and loved.

I'm shocked people are attacking plus sized people and gay people in the comments instead of criticizing the real problem. It's not the majority but I'm shocked they're here at all, because I thought you were an ally. Edit: It's very few now but honestly I just didn't expect someone to watch this and go " those damn gays!!!!! " ☠️☠️☠️☠️

Wearing sexy lingerie makes ME feel pretty and confident. I buy it for MYSELF, to boost MY mood. And I'm asexual! I find it sexist to assume that all women do is think about men and their pleasure and that they have no agency. I think Rapinoe and wokies can't grasp the concept of woman's choice and free will to do as she pleases. Thanks for the video

I’m here out of curiosity because I never had any objection to their models or marketing because I’m not a fat activist. I’m 5’3 and in shape but I’m a size 6 so definitely higher fat percentage than these models but it never really bothered me. And you’re absolutely right that it’s ultimately the woman’s choice to buy the clothes so we shouldn’t infantilize women or minimize their agency.

It’s wild to me that some people don’t understand VS models were the pro athlete equivalent for the modeling world. No one watches an NBA game and gets mad at the NBA because they don’t have players at the level of your local 24 hour fitness. Pretty simple concept

As a gen Z, I never even knew about the angels until I was older. I grew up in Canada and we didn’t get a VS store till I was older. I saw the stuff and hated how much of the brand was all over and the prices. They never carried my size so I was pretty bummed out. 30 band size. I just shop elsewhere and find VS stuff meh now. I find Lasenza (owned by VS) has sexier and cuter options at least 😂

I love(d) Victoria's Secret. I've had their card since 2004. I still have pants, yes pants, when they sold actual clothes. They need to focus on quality. I've stopped buying any lingerie because it just doesn't hold up and the sizes are weird and vary from piece to piece.. Plus, not sure who does the photos, but many pieces do not look good on some models. Recently, I've just been getting purses, lotions, and perfumes.

Unrelated but has anyone noticed the quality has gone drastically down? The feel of some of the fabrics are so bad it immediately freaked me out (im sensory sensitive lol) I can tell they switched manufacturers and the quality is so cheap yet still as expensive.

While I agree that this might have an impact on their revenue going down there is also that fact that since 2020 inflation has gone up. I love victoria secret, their bras fit amazingly and are long lasting. It good a qood quiltiy but they are expensive. Right now I don't have $75 to spend on 1 bra. Good thing they have 2 semi annual sales.

Personally, I was never offended by the angels. I want to see the best case scenario of how I would look in lingerie. and I hope that doesn’t offend anyone it’s just my personal opinion. My main complaint with Victoria’s Secret is their quality! I have bought Walmart panties that have outlasted VS thongs. They destroy in the wash in about three washes.

As a “non straight woman” the word heteronormative is just annoying. It’s bras. Thats it. Stop it.

It’s bigoted if they don’t market their lingerie to men? Seriously??? Ok

They were trying to complete Aerie's underwear campaign

Companies can sell or not sell what they want. I don't get upset because Lane Bryant or torrid doesn't sell size 0 or XS. People just like to whine

They did is so wrong and dirty VS can’t compete with Fenty, Forever 21 and others and hasn’t since 2018 after cutting swimwear and athletic wear Miss me with this

When I went to Victoria’s Secret with my aunt( she is plus sized) they said they didn’t have anything in her size.

Here’s the thing: why do we see men modeling everything from makeup on Sephora to clothes at VS pink, but you’ll never see a male focused brand with a woman modeling the clothes?

Everything isn’t meant to be iNcLuSiVe 😒

Haven’t watched the whole video yet but expecting consumers to pay $60+ per bra while prices for everyday necessities have increased … what did they expect

Tbh when i was younger, I loveddd window shopping VS but as of recent years their stuff isn’t all that cute

I don't shop there anymore because the quality has tanked, has nothing to do with advertising.

doesn't this kinda show that even open-minded women don't buy this dogmatic bullshit, and that maybe just want a glamorized presentation of a product they're considering purchasing? blaming this one on "patriarchy" is gonna take a Mrs Incredible-level reach

Yeah sorry but now that they sell plus size and non gender clothing their stuff has gotten ugly and expensive as hell

Victoria's Secret biggest shareholders are Blackrock and Vanguard Group, gotta get those ESG scores up

From what I understood is that people liked the hyperfeminine look of the brand.

Can I just say that I don’t understand women being mad that Victoria’s Secret sells to men’s lens/fantasy/whatever? Like, most women buying lingerie are buying it to look sexy for their man. It’s (for the most part), literally the point.

Im wondering how many of the people saying they were never bothered by Victoria secret ever had the experience of being told they dont stock their size. It makes sense it didnt bother you if it didnt effect you….

I'm just gonna quote Jeff Foxworthy and say "Secrets Out". 🤣🤣🤣🤣

I loved the angels. If you look back at the 1999 fashion show most of the women have a little extra weight and I loved that. And lingerie is supposed to be hyper sexualized and geared towards men -- it's lingerie. That's kind of the point. VS barely sells lingerie anymore and it sucks.

I buy myself “sexy underwear” because it makes me feel good. My husband has never understood the point of lingerie and sees it as unnecessary. He says “it all just ends up on the floor anyway no matter what it looks like” They need to chill on all the lounge wear and t shirt bras. Bring back the nice things. Women want it too.

Everytime I hear the word WOKE I cringe sounds like an cult word

I'm so glad they went back. My very first romantic lingerie gift ever from my then fiancée was from Victoria's secret. My gorgeous wedding night peignoir was from Victoria's Secret. My sports bras, pushup bras, stockings and garters, plus Christmas robes have all been from Victoria's Secret. I love it so much, and have such great memories of it, and I'm sorry if some folks felt left out, but I hated to see it fucked with, tbh. And I wasn't always thinner, either. After my first baby, before I got all the weight finally lost, I was big and couldn't fit into it. I didn't care, since I didn't want to see it messed with then, either. Still wouldn't have if I'd stayed bigger. I know they did it for business, but corporations are always going to be cutthroat. The corporation isn't the art designs, though. One need not sully the other. The Victoria's Secret ecosystem is just gonna have to trigger a few folks if it does. It's gorgeous sensual art. Not everything has to be made for every individual in every strata of society. I think it's ok to have some icons keep what made them icons in the first place.

Victoria Secrets thought they was Rihanna.

I do not care which type of fart filters women wear.

VS.. maybe you'd have higher revenue if your $70+ bras lasted more than six months before snapping or tearing?

Savage X Fenty was founded 5 years ago! Coincidence??

Guess they ran out of ESG money.

I grew up loving those gorgeous angels, and I still do. I do not have the same giraffe-like proportions as the models, but I’ve spent some COIN over the years at VS and been happy about it. Hell, I still have some staple items I keep going back for (I practically live in their 5-way push-up bra). I fear VS damaged their brand by changing it and wonder if they really can go back. It kinda feels like a bummer now.

They don’t have any sales because men don’t wear bras and they have NEVER marketed to women.

Their sales have been dropping for a while it's not just the inclusion situation

Victoria's secret is an aspirational brand, a fake luxury brand, tremendously overpriced. The angels were, in fact, the best part lol

IMO, V.S. started to really suck back when the stopped making clothing and stared to just make terrible quality underwear (before the collabs.) I shopped there because i was a size zero. It's hard to find that size sometimes. They become garbage as a product a while back.

You wanted to be the angels, beautiful and confident. Not many people want to be fat or disabled or physically unattractive (and I say that as someone that is two of the three). I’m not surprised the sales dipped.

Didn't they hold fashion shows with little girls in lingerie in China? That tells you everything.

Imagine being broke enough to complain about billions 🙄 gtfo VS

Not that I wear wired bras anymore, but I always felt like they could have kept the "sexy Angels" marketing and just... made more sizes?? Like my bra size is something stupid like 30C so I could never walk into a store and buy a bra that fits off the rack. So I never shopped there. I feel like stuff like that was probably all people were asking for.

Couldn’t their loss in revenue just also be partially due to the epidemic, war and inflation? Idk like VS is very expensive and i think it’s a lot harder for a lot of people to justify the prices rn

Notice savage x fenty didn’t have this pushback. It goes back to how disingenuous this new VS marketing seems

When they’re describin’ the concepts of ‘sexiness’ & ‘inclusivity’ as two separate things, that just shows they weren’t genuine with their attempts from the get-go; it would be described as just sexiness otherwise.

I'm Gen X and a dude, so VS was never really a thing for me. What I do remember about it is that most of the girls I knew couldn't shop there in its heyday because, 1) VS didn't cater to their size, 2) they weren't welcome because of their skin tone, or 3) their products were mostly crap. Any woman I knew in a C-cup or over stated their bras had no support and were flimsy af. I also remember a lot of girls wearing VS body sprays and the sickly stenches made me nauseous. But let's be serious. Blaming "wokeness" is a copout to deny their utter failure at rebranding. Their time has passed. Their customers aged out, and the younger generations don't idolize supermodels the way mine and Millennials did - in that supermodels had individual identities but were also a collective force of personality. None of the top models of today would I categorize as super. VS always discriminated against not just plus-sized women, but the average woman. They facilitated disordered eating. They tokenized Tyra, and women of color weren't marketed to and went generally unacknowledged as actually existing. They tried to cash in on inclusivity as a trend and not a concept, and no one bought it. So now they can say they tried to "do better" but it's not what customers really want, which conservative nutbags will buy into as proof that identity politics is tanking the economy. What a clusterf**k of passing the buck.

I had to stop watching the channel illuminaughtii. Because what she showed me is that EVERY company and every product we partake in is bad on one way or another. From everything we eat, wear, the cars we drive. If you dig deep enough, you will find problems with everything you consume. So I have Victoria’s secret bras. I dont really care either way what their politics are on weight or anything else. Im just trying to wrangle my breasts so they dont escape me at work. 😅

I definitely agree that the inclusivity was for money because when I went to the online shop to find some sets, when I put my size in they had 5 options and most of the sets were plain or straight up ugly. So they don't even offer all their stuff in inclusive sizes. So the runway shows is literally just putting lipstick on a pig. They never really cared, and it shows in literally everything they do.

The thing I saw so many people mention; people who DID like victorias secrets aesthetic (including myself) didnt like the change bc the "inclusivity" meant going bland, not keeping the glamour. People will definitely still get mad seeing a fat woman, but it wouldve felt more genuine if those fat/plus sized lingerie were the sparkly glamorous pieces VS tends to be associated with, many wanted exactly that. Its not an exclusive issue to VS, but it does suck

Yeah if we wanted comfortable and inclusive bras we'd just shop at the local department store.. People shopped at Victoria's secret to get ripped off and to look and feel sexy even if we weren't sexy, it just gave that feeling

Their downfall isn't that they became inclusive. Their downfall is that they became irrelevant 10 yrs ago, & former customers already found better replacement products. An image rebrand wasn't going to undo the harm they caused over generations, they still measure bra size incorrectly, & they don't carry small bands or big cups.

Complaining about patriarchy AND not being inclusive of men is contradictory. Girl pick one

Girl it’s nothing about “going woke”. VS did a piss poor, half assed “rebranding” and took everything out of what made VS VS. They acted like they had to take all the sexiness and glamour out to be “inclusive”, as if there was only one type that could possibly be desirable. If “going woke” and being “inclusive” was the issue Savage x Fenty would be having the same issue but instead they’re thriving

The "body positivity" movement is just objectively harmful. Workout, eat healthy and seek to continuously better yourself and don't give into fat acceptance. Normalizing being fat is cringe; be a positive role model for overweight people to work on themselves to be healthier and enjoy a more fulfilling life.

I don't particularly care if a corporation is "woke" because it's all a con anyway. However, I think this instance is less about failed diversity or "go woke, go broke" and more about shifting consumer demands. Victoria Secret, and many companies like them, are just having a hard time reckoning with the fact that consumers aren't interested in their wares anymore, and instead of evolving with the trends they're trying to tether us to a past where they were still fashionable.

The Dalas Cowboy Cheerleaders are all fit with great hair because that's the image they want, to work at Hooters you need a great rack because that's what they want, the Rockettes will never have a gal on that team under a certain height because that's what is required. As a gal who has fluctuated in weight and has one breast bigger than the other I loved the VS fashion shows. They were truly like fantasy. The bejeweled bras to the wings that were shaped from various materials, I so don't care if they go back to having actual models doing their job because that's what it should be. I mean my god, I always wanted to be a Cheerleader because I found the outfits cute but I can't because I am not athletically gifted (nor money-wise) but that doesn't mean I gotta ruin all that for other people. I realize some shit is not meant for me. I accept it and move the fuck on. People really need to quit this hug box bullshit and learn from each rejection that you can't always get what you want and you will find some place to belong but quit giving away all your power to begging for others to make you worthy. 💯

It's very simple, wokeness doesn't correlate to profit. Rightly so, I'm happy they're seeing who actually has the power, WOMEN!!

The words diversity and inclusion makes me so mad every time I hear a company use them If people use them the wrong way like push woke messages down everyone throats. I never cared for victorias secret not my place to go shopping I am a gamer and action figure fan. Also I am sick of Lgbtq being pushed into EVERYTHING! NOT EVERYTHING OR EVERYONE IS GAY! straight and non straight people exist. I am not gay or straight.

The "go woke and go broke" tends to get written off as a right wing talking point for a somewhat valid reason... but in reality, it's "go fake woke and go broke". I've always felt weird about that phrase getting co-opted by them because tokenism isn't actual "inclusivity".

Also like. Their bras are crap. $60 for flimsy lace? No thanks

I wish brands would Focus on the quality of their products instead of pandering to the masses. If they just sold good products, this shit wouldn’t be a fucking issue.

I am glad that Victoria's Secret is admitting that you can't be both woke and sexy.

Am i wrong, or wasnt the les wexner/epstein relationship a reason for people boycotting them?

They were literally selling a dream of looking "perfect and sexy" to women. Their brand was to be sexy. Them moving from pretty and sexy lingerie and faking body positivity doesn't appeal to anyone. 1. It wasn't believable for people demanding inclusivity and body positivity. 2. It wasn't for the remaining customers of their original target either.

snt the whole part of victorias secret is that the lingerie is making you feel sexy? Its almost like when you try to change your brand to something it wasnt its going to blow up in your face

I don’t know why they couldn’t keep the same styles but just expand the sizes. Every brand is turning into another SKIMS trying to compete with Kim K’s beige ness. I feel like completely changing the styling just says and reinforces they don’t think that those pretty styles should be worn by different bodies. And this is someone who’s always been mid-plus sized and bought from them

OMG it was a woman’s store! They had really cute stuff - not everything has to be political ugh! Bring back the old hot girl clothes hell yeah

It's not just about selling a fantasy, while yes most people are not going to fit the body types that they were portraying, the real objective was feeling sexier. So when you stop trying to appeal to an idea of sexy for one of portraying the average body type, of course there is going to be a potential for losing sells. So let's think of it this way, what are you more likely going to buy?? You walk into the store and see two mannequins, one is overweight making the underwear material stretched larger and not equally portioned, the other mannequin is slim, toned and the material fits better. Let's say both are wearing practically the same product with slight difference but what the final decision comes down to is how good you think it will look on you. I have no doubt that most people including women are going to go with what they can see is more potentially more attractive in the case of wanting to look sexy than the underwear they see less equally portioned. I can admit to myself that in the same situation as a man looking to buy something more sexy, I'm more likely going to buy something that appears sexy off a muscular mannequin than an overweight one because the visual impact meets my goals for buying it better. Because the product might not look as good on me but I can see that the potential I'm trying to achieve is there. And people make this comparison of attraction all the time, not just with clothing. How many people pick the perfect can over the dented one?? Or put the TV back because it has a barely noticeable scratch in the corner?? Now there might be deeper reasons why these visual imperfects influence your decision but the sexy appealing underwear has its reasons too. Sex appeal isn't a bad thing, like everything in life it's about a healthy balance. If you are treating people like Michael Bay does or Harvey Weinstein then you have gone too far but going too far in the other direction is just as bad and you might as well return to the church's way of thinking in the 1800s. I have a news flash, no matter what you do people will always want to feel sexy and there will always be someone judging you for it, including people of the same sex and sexual orientation. People are made of opinions, and they don't all align. The important thing is not abusing life.

Last time I went to VS they told me my “perfect size” is “very popular” but unfortunately they only offer it online… in three different styles two of which are essentially the same but one is push up and the other isn’t but they are SO inclusive

I like seeing plus-sized women modeling bras. Most natural breasts over an A cup don't defy gravity. The bigger they are, the more they sag, generally speaking. Seeing a woman with curves and large breasts modeling bras gives me an idea on how it will actually fit. Seeing a tiny woman in an A-cup tells me nothing; she could get away with going braless. Though I agree regarding the Angels and stuff. For the runways, conventional supermodels are the ideal. For the website, though, I'd like to know if that bra is actually gonna hold theses babies up, even if I am only buying them on sale. I need to spend like $120 or more to qualify for free shipping in Canada, so its still a splurge when I hit up the sales. Walmart and Giant Tiger never seem to have my actual cup-size; its always a size bigger or smaller than what I need.

I think one solution is to change the policies around modeling as a job. No employer should be able to demand that their workers go malnourished. Let models eat like actual human beings, and there will be diversity regarding the body representation.

I just can't justify to myself spending that kind of money on clothes when ross is just as cute

I think you’re right. When VS went inclusive it was so obvious that they were virtue signaling thinking it would be a cash grab. They were vocally against it for years until a sudden change of heart, and the general public is not as dumb as executives seem to think. There are plenty of woke brands that succeed but the ones that fail like Bud Light and VS do so spectacularly because there is no authenticity and the brand was previously curated with an entirely different audience in mind. The thing about VS is most of the attraction to the brand was brought from the annual show, which sold a fantasy and which more women watched than men. Sex sells for both genders and ppl forget that. And bud light is literally a beer brand for bros. Neither brand was suited to a woke makeover, especially one so clearly tokenist it’s enough to make you spew.

the thing is, I don't think anyone was ever mad that VS wasn't super inclusive. no one expects it to be. I think the problem is that people running it specifically said, "we'd never have a fat or trans person because that's not sexy" which is blatantly fatphobic and transphobic. if they had just said something performative that we all knew was bs or just not said anything, no one would have cared. but they did say that, so they then went the glass cliff direction.

So woke can’t coincide with sexy? Big is sexy. Small is sexy. Every size and shape is sexy… they are such jokes….

When will people understand that companies care about money and that. Is. It.

As a VERY busty woman, I havent been able to buy a bra there in over a decade. They do not cater to my cup size (not that I exoect them to), but tokenizing for models to gain "woke points" isnt helping anyone. Stick to what ya know, Vicki!

They will keep flopping either way. People have moved on from them. WoKeNeSS was not the issue.

Im so confused. Its only been within the last 1-2 years that my size -xxl- was offered online, and about 6 months that has my size in the PINK section of the brick and mortar stores. I just got the quarterly sales print last week about how they have a new line for disabled people, with magnetic closures and was running the same price as their black tagged items. Are they just gonna walk all that stuff back? I think that they ended up being late to the BBL era, and are not loosing profits because "woke-ness" but because all of us are starving. Honestly tho, VS 5/$45 sales and 10/$39 Semi annual sales where the only reason I was able to afford underwear since the pandemic, and all of the sexier items are sold out immediately. Ive been trying to get the Spider-Web cheeky for the past 2 Halloweens, and their gone the second they are posted-and immediately scalped on ebay/poshmark/etc. If it was up to me, Id focus on what styles sell the best and work on getting more of them in stock and offering them it a wider range of sizes. We can have the best of both worlds but for some reason capitalism keeps telling us we cant.

I’m very busty/curvy. I haven’t been able to wear VS bras since I had an ED about a decade ago. I just want to feel pretty in what I wear. I wish we could bring back the old sparkly glitzy glam VS stuff but for people plus size too.

On the plus side, they do seem to be doing more for people with disabilities, like more accessible straps

Heres what I think. You wouldnt buy an apple thats marketed with a picture of a brown apple that has been on the kitchen bench for a few minutes even when its good to eat. So a Sexy lingerie brand with sexy models to sell their product thats supposed to make you feel hot. Doesnt sound weird at all. Why would I as a gay man want to buy sexy underwear from a guy with a beergut and a flat ass? Im not saying thats wrong but for the purpose of selling sexy underwear it sounds silly and a company isnt a political party so said guy with beergut and flat booty would be silly to go cry they arent inclusive right? And that being said he is the target audience still you dont actually have to be hot to wear it and neither are they saying you're ugly they are just selling a product it's not that deep.

I think part of the reason they failed is they leaned to hard into relying on inclusivity to carry their sales and didn’t consider their designs and quality were terrible and boring. I want to see their og branding on diverse and inclusive models. VS did this to themselves with lazy and terrible designs and not even bothering to hide the fact that they didn’t want to do it in the first place.

The thing is, they consider that whoever is outside of their normative idea of a "beautiful body" cannot be... just sexy? Like you can be inckusive and still keep the sensual trademark of the brand??? poc, lgbtq+, disabled and plus size peeps etc etc can be sexy, inclusivity is not grey-corporate-washing everything, putting out a bland sports bra and slapping an auto-congratulating sticker saying ✨how progressive you are✨ on it 🤦🏻‍♀️At some point I can only wonder if they are doing tge bare minimum on purpose just to say "hey, we tried, too bad it doesn't sell" and call it a day, while appealing to the far right sensibilities of the "go woke go broke" mantra... I've seen a lot of small creators making lingerie both sexy/cute/aesthetic AND inclusive, in their sizing and in the diversity of the models they choose to advertise their products, so it shows that VS just can't be bothered 🙄

I would think transgender models would actually make the brand less appealing to transgender people. They dress a certain way to appear that way in as convincing of a way as possible. Conventionally attractive feminine women would help sell to most demographics.