Everything You Need To Know About Cylinder Bore Surface Finish

Everything You Need To Know About Cylinder Bore Surface Finish - NHRA Trackside Tech Talk

Рет қаралды 10,236

Жыл бұрын

Based on the amazing response from "Cylinder Bore Honing For Horsepower! Watch This Before You Hone Your Block!" - Here's the deep dive into everything you need to know about cylinder bore finish. If you have any questions about cylinder bore honing for today's piston rings, this is your in-depth seminar. Ed Kiebler from Rottler Mfg joins Lake Speed Jr for a master class on cylinder bore surface finish. This tech talk begins with background information on the relationship between the cylinder bore and piston rings.
Next, they cover the evolution of piston ring materials and coatings, and most importantly how those changes have impacted the art of cylinder bore honing.
Specific surface finish values for ductile moly vs PVD coated steel rings are provided. Also, Rpk, Rk and Rvk values for different engine applications are listed.
A full explanation of the Rpk, Rk and Rvk values are provided as well as information related to conventional, diamond and CBN abrasives.
Leaving no stone unturned, the duo also covers the initial engine break-in process. This tech talk hits on all the key topics related to honing and piston ring seal, and the links below provide even greater detail on particular topics.
Honing For Horsepower
• 3 Steps To More Horsep...
Break-In Oil
• ☑️ Do’s & Don’ts ⛔️ of...
Dyno Break-In
• Don't RUIN Your Engine...
Break-In Without A Dyno
• How To Break-In An Eng...
Dr. Mark Malburg on Surface Finish
• BONUS EPISODE - Mark M...
Piston Ring Thickness & Engine Temperature
• Engine Running HOT? Wa...
What is Ring Seal Soup?
• What Is Ring Seal Soup?
#RacingEngine #CylinderBore #CylinderHoning #PistonRings #Enginetechnology #horsepower #engine

Пікірлер: 40

@jims2286 7 ай бұрын

Thank you for saying that there is no thing as a cromemoly ring and that it is a cast iron or ductile iron ring that has a moly coating. I have been telling people this for 35 years. Thank you so much for this video. Keep up the good work for educating people!!!

@TotalSeal 7 ай бұрын

You bet!

@marianoleonel8914 Жыл бұрын

I am from Argentina where the taxes are so high that you can't produce anything without that the government takes away all Your profit, I understand what you are talking about haha. Excellent video I Love the Way that Lake Speed Jr. explains the subjects,really easy to understand. Regards from Argentina.

@TotalSeal Жыл бұрын

Thanks

@andyreiwitch8845 Жыл бұрын

Love it! (Stroker Ace Ventura)

@Mike62501 Жыл бұрын

Way less crank case blow by = more power. Compatibility of ring materials to cylinder wall along the correct surface finish and oil makes it work. Thanks Guy’s

@TotalSeal Жыл бұрын

Thanks Mike!

@TheClintmeister Жыл бұрын

My brane is exploding! I got to go over so many of these videos and "up" my education! Much TYX!!

@TotalSeal Жыл бұрын

Thanks! Sorry about breaking your brain.

@TheClintmeister Жыл бұрын

@@TotalSeal thats ok this is the teck I need. I started when motors only lasted 100K. Now I'm interested in building motors that will go 1M mi.

@mg_ep547 Жыл бұрын

Fantastic information 👏,greatly appreciate your wonderful information

@TotalSeal Жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

@hughobrien4139 Жыл бұрын

I’ve updated my old Rottler HP2 to Diamond and CBN. Changed out the old sulfur based honing oil to a synthetic honing oil. I do not have the time or abilities to maintain water based. My small home based shop isn’t quite busy enough to justify the changes I’ve made cost wise. Quality wise the results were instantly noticed and my confidence levels are growing. I just need find a way to digest the costs of a programmed profilometer in order to keep my wife humble with my choices. I’ve been hoping for technology to ease the costs as well. The last time I shopped the market for profilomters the word was a preprogrammed unit bought through Total Seal. It was well over $4500 at that time. Does anyone know of any other viable more cost effective alternatives?

@TotalSeal Жыл бұрын

The pre-programmed profilometers are now $2,500 from Total Seal.

@amorgan93 Жыл бұрын

Very informative video, thanks

@TotalSeal Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the comment!

@mikeg4163 Жыл бұрын

Appreciate your videos.

@TotalSeal Жыл бұрын

Glad you like them!

@roncoburn7771 Жыл бұрын

hope ed lake and keith come to maple grove you guys are great

@TotalSeal Жыл бұрын

Our next tech talk is at Las Vegas. We wish we would have known earlier that Maple Grove was going to be on the Pro Stock schedule.

@johnnymac1976 2 ай бұрын

ZDDP of 1200ppm and higher for higher than stock spring pressures. Good to know!

@TotalSeal 2 ай бұрын

Glad to help

@ls87gbody Жыл бұрын

I'm building a turbo ls iron block 6.0. Cylinders were bored and honed for moly rings at the machine shop, the rings I'm running are Hastings steel nitrided top rings and ductile Napier second. I should've left the bores alone but I read high performance steel nitrided rings like 320 to 400 grit so i ordered a 400 grit flexhone and did about 30ish strokes in each cylinder. Did I royally screw my cylinders up pr will they be ok? I know the profilometer will be the tell all but I don't have one. This is an all forged engine and want it to last awhile.

@TotalSeal Жыл бұрын

Unfortunately, without knowing what the profilometer says, we can't tell you. That's probably rough enough to get them to break-in (if the oil and break-in procedure is correct) but we couldn't speculate how long it will last.

@nelsonpassos9291 7 ай бұрын

It was my undestanding from my pro training, the reduction of zddp was the cure to premature failure of catalytic converters. We were losing them left and right. But with the reduction of zddp followed premature wear of cams chains and followers. Those were very profitable days for us techs. I am moving away from Alusil to Nikasil on a turbo 4 cyl dry sumped with oil squirters. What would be your recommendation on honing ? Rings ? It was my experience rings on Nikasil were very hard to brake-in leading to a high oil consumption. A few nickel plated blocks I disassembled showed rings were not seating properly, so that is my concern. Perhaps too high RVK keep rings from conforming to cylinder walls ? I am sure there must be a balance with these numbers. Your comments/suggestions would be highly appreciated !

@TotalSeal 7 ай бұрын

Great question. For a detailed answer, please email this question to info@totalseal.com

@jimhalbrook9155 Жыл бұрын

What that tool u hv there u said everyone needs thx u

@TotalSeal Жыл бұрын

The tool is called a profilometer. We recommend and sell the Mitutoyo SJ-210

@tednarine1244 9 ай бұрын

What are the range for surface roughness Ra, Rk, Rpk and Rvk for a finished alusil bore aluminum block

@TotalSeal 9 ай бұрын

Alusil is very different since it is not a plateaued finish. Ra = 8, Rpk = 18, Rk = 18, Rvk = 12

@12Senna Жыл бұрын

a off topic question, how was heat cycle degrade oil if no fuel dilution Issue

@TotalSeal Жыл бұрын

Great question. For every 10C increase in oil temperature, the operating life of the oil is cut in half, so reducing oil temperature extends the useful life of the oil.

@skylinefever Жыл бұрын

I was unaware that Nascar now has .5mm piston rings. I have heard of .6mm piston rings. Nice. 8:52 I am worried about T-GDI engines, as fuel oil contamination has getting worse. Some have it worse than the old carb engines. I have to wonder how much less life these cars will have, when compared to multi port EFI engines. 9:20 Didn't Colin Chapman, Lotus racer say that? He said that anything that lasts longer than the finish line is just extra weight. "Add lightness" was something he loved saying. 1:05:17 I was unaware that the EPA rewarded long oil change intervals in the manual. Some manuals should be ignored and have the oil changed much more often. Many Toyotas would not have so many problems if the conventional oil was changed every 3000 miles, even though the manual said 5000 miles. Some VW engines would have been saved if the synthetic oil was changed every 5000 miles, even though some manuals called for 10,000 miles.

@TotalSeal Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the comments. In regards to the DI engines, the spray bore technology often coupled with DI is a saving grace. The spray bore coatings retain oil better than traditionally manufactured bores, so that helps resist the fuel wash.

@skylinefever Жыл бұрын

@@TotalSeal Excellent. I was afraid that GDI would ruin what was gained.

@bcbloc02 Жыл бұрын

Some aftermarket diesel companies are now offering steel cylinder liners versus cast. Does that material require a different hone to get the same long term wear?

@TotalSeal Жыл бұрын

@@bcbloc02 great question. Steel liners need a little smoother Rpk 7- 10 and a touch smoother Rk (5-10 less than cast iron).

@YouCantSawSawdust Жыл бұрын

You are wrong about the coating on titanium valves. The coating is to stop the VALVE SEAT "eating up" the valve face,NOT to stop the valve "eating up" the valve seat.

@YouCantSawSawdust Жыл бұрын

Only the last five minutes of this clip contained any valuable information. Everything else is already well documented documented by Maskin a long time ago.