He Hid his Victims in a Tree: The Treehouse Killer

Рет қаралды 255,746

6 ай бұрын

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Пікірлер: 295

@heatherd.8783 6 ай бұрын

That dispatcher was an absolute asshole to the co worker when she called to report the large amount of blood. Dude, no one cares that you just got into work and why didn't you just ask directly "what's your address" if that's what you needed?! I'm so done with 911 operators/dispatchers acting inconvenienced by phone calls.

@iwillregretthis5127 6 ай бұрын

so glad i'm not the only who thought he was unnecessarily rude to a woman who was clearly in pretty severe distress

@sol-hb8zg 6 ай бұрын

He sounded like he didn’t give a flying fuck 😮

@angieng6091 6 ай бұрын

Ikr, it’s so insane like it’s your job?!?!

@victoriadiesattheend.8478 6 ай бұрын

Thank you for saying this. I was getting so angry listening to that call. This woman is telling you her employee and friend has been missing for two days and she has just found her home full of blood without bodies, she is trying to remain calm but she is actively in crisis and for all you know she could be in the house WITH A KILLER. That guy was like, "wah, I just got in, I shouldn't even have had to pick up your call" that's how he comes off. Gross.

@suzie6135 6 ай бұрын

Actually, I perceived this conversation completely differently. The woman called and immediately said that she had called about an employee yesterday, and the dispatcher only said that he didn't know what it was about because he wasn't there at the time. And when the woman started telling him the whole story, he interrupted her to send someone to that address as quickly as possible, because honestly, why did he need a story and information about a phone call from the past. It's not that he will be the one to lead the investigation, he was just there to send someone to the scene. However, I agree that the tone of his voice was dry and cold, but maybe it's just his voice. But I listened to so many conversations with dispatchers and this one really was normal. I think this call could be shorter, but due to small misunderstandings in communication, it took a little longer. To me it sounded as if the woman called and maybe she thought that if she said that she had already given the address yesterday, they would send someone there immediately, so the dispatcher said that he knew nothing about such a situation and wanted the woman's address. After dispatcher's words, woman then thought that since he said he didn't know anything about this situation, she should tell him about it and she started to. But when the dispacher realized that the woman wanted to tell him the entire conversation from the previous day, which was not important at that moment, he interrupted her and asked for the address. Just a simple miscommunication. I'm literally fascinated by how many ways you can interpret one conversation between two unknown people.

@mint0zs 6 ай бұрын

cops not following through with wellness checks need to be charged. the fact she laid there deceased and TWO officers failed checks is DISGUSTING.

@immortalwaifu 6 ай бұрын

and the way the cop seemed annoyed when her manager called for a second time…..so damn frustrating. cops are so fucking incompetent

@wolvesandbooksbudandalley3381 6 ай бұрын

@@immortalwaifuwhat could they have done instead? If she’s not answering her door? Called for backup? Just generally curious as to what they can do if she’s not coming to the door..

@jaaymurray3608 5 ай бұрын

@@wolvesandbooksbudandalley3381it’s a WELLNESS CHECK! If nobody answers, it’s literally their job to still go in and do a WELLNESS CHECK!

@VeronicaRodriguez-rp6qb 5 ай бұрын

Cant enter without a warrant or exigent circumstances. There wasnt anything on the exterior at the time that would meet exigency. So yea, unfortunately public servants are bound by existing laws to act further @jaaymurray3608

@user-ry2ur6vj6h 5 ай бұрын

@@jaaymurray3608no it’s not, they can’t go inside someone’s house without permission. If there’s no answer as the door and they don’t hear a disturbance, they have no legal right to force entry into the house

@bananablisss 6 ай бұрын

The phrogging thing is a total new fear unlocked.

@hockeymom913 5 ай бұрын

Right?! I'm like are there any places to hide in my house? 🤯 nah, my kids would have found them playing hide n seek 🧐

@bovvsette7996 3 ай бұрын

Makes me wanna think... he kinda went back to his childhood. You know, being in a house, with people who do not acknowledge him in any way. Maybe when the house owners left, and he finally got time to be by himself, reminded him of when his mom left for work and he was left alone.

@Sangonomiiya 2 ай бұрын

For me it was already a fear that someone could be hiding in my house, and finding out that people do it for fun…

@hi9019 11 күн бұрын

REALLL BRO IM TERRIFIED

@aaliyan2 6 ай бұрын

I love how Valerie was so worried for her coworker. More power to her.

@liennisaizzokarlsson3901 5 ай бұрын

@yesipan 6 ай бұрын

The failed wellness checks and the attitude of the operator are disgusting. The victims were failed and I also feel for the manager who was just trying to make sure her employee was okay.

@backdoorsluts_9 6 ай бұрын

Also the fact that he lived UNNOTICED in that condo for months? That’s terrifying.

@OliveCreatesGold 6 ай бұрын

This just goes to show law enforcement needs more training. The person on the phone did not sound professional, the cops who did not follow through on the wellness checks are disgraceful, and a lot could’ve been done if they went into the house themselves sooner. It’s not defund the police it’s get better training and management for the police. RIP to the victims I hope they found peace and I hope the loved ones left behind can find peace as well ❤

@OliveCreatesGold 6 ай бұрын

Also, hate when devils cry. Like how can you SA and murder ppl but wanna cry when the cops come? Ik why, because ppl who do those things are mentally weak ppl. Misery loves company and hates punishment.

@Thetalltrtle 5 ай бұрын

Why do MOST dispatchers sound like it’s a total inconvenience for you to call to report something? Like I know they can’t sound a certain way so that can deescalate the situation, but man.

@avam.3632 4 ай бұрын

True! But I was thinking maybe those dispatchers have a lot to deal with too. That can’t be easy. We go into these jobs wanting to help people. .. but after awhile, it does take a toll on your psyche.

@Thetalltrtle 4 ай бұрын

@@avam.3632 yeah that’s true too

@kidcthulhufortney1320 6 ай бұрын

I forgot all about this case! It didn't jog my memory until the living room of leaves. You did a great job here, Hailey.

@caraelizabeth6338 6 ай бұрын

One of my professor was the lead forensic investigator on this case! I think it’s also important to note that he had dendrophilia (which means he was sexually attracted to trees) that’s why he there was so many leaves in the house, and the bodies were found in the tree. Also one part of him confessing to the whole thing, was that tree did not get cut down but it did at the end.

@wolvesandbooksbudandalley3381 6 ай бұрын

… how- how are people sexually attracted to a tree? 🤦‍♀️ Wtfrick.

@schnitzel7244 5 ай бұрын

No way😭 do you know if I can find the information somewhere online?

@caraelizabeth6338 5 ай бұрын

@@schnitzel7244 there’s a lot of documentaries online. The one that my professor is in is called “the leaf killer”

@st3llar.r33dz Ай бұрын

dear lord . that’s disgusting

@begentlebutdontallowshit2549 6 ай бұрын

To whoever is reading this and might struggle rn for whatever reason, please keep going, you're doing fine! No matter how slow your progress, each new week is filled with tiny steps forward. Be proud of yourself you got this! It’s worth hanging in there, it truly is. Stay strong kind strangers!❤ EDIT I would have never thought that this simple message touches so many people, it’s so beautiful tho even if its sad in a way that so many can relate... I am struggling myself currently and I thought a positive message might maybe help someone out there like it helped me once. I am truly touched. Sending all the strength and positivity to all that need it! And as I said …please keep going. So will I 🥲♥️✨

@Im.sorry.ms.jackson 6 ай бұрын

Omg you have no idea how bad I needed to hear this 😭 thank you ❤

@mint0zs 6 ай бұрын

even if you don’t mean this (you have reposted the exact same comment multiple times on multiple different channels) - THIS is the type of copied & reposted bot comment that needs to be shared 😁 i wish someone i cared about would say this to me

@jennajones4904 6 ай бұрын

@@mint0zs idk i think they obv do care if they take the time to repost it in other places

@brittanypickrel2691 6 ай бұрын

i didn’t think a complete stranger would make me cry today thank you i needed to hear this 🩵

@Im.sorry.ms.jackson 6 ай бұрын

@@jennajones4904 agreed!

@the.real.mothman. 6 ай бұрын

this might sound a bit wierd but your channel is literally the best. im super neurodivergent and cant handle some types of voices and yours is really nice to listen to, and i love how respectful you are to the victims and how positive you always are. im having a pretty bad day rn and you uploading was amazing lol

@cattisms 6 ай бұрын

i felt this :D her and bailey sarien are are nice to listen to

@deez2569 6 ай бұрын

Try Rotten Mango, her voice is malifluous!!!

@the.real.mothman. 6 ай бұрын

@@deez2569 i love her channel too lol

@backdoorsluts_9 6 ай бұрын

@@deez2569I love Stephanie ! I’m actually watching rottens latest video after this one

@tarabourgeois5807 6 ай бұрын

This case is so sad, especially the young son, as he still had so much life to live, and he never really even got the chance to start.

@victoriadiesattheend.8478 6 ай бұрын

Thank you for the video, Hailey 🌸 I mean.....is anyone else aware that "frogging" is actually called "breaking and entering"...how absolutely terrifying that basically home invasion was considered by ANYONE to be some fun and cute "hide and seek" kind of game. Considering his history of doing this and then lighting the home in which he was hiding on fire when the occupants weren't home, it chills me that when she could finally speak coherently about her experience, Sarah actually said that when she saw that Matthew covered his home and the entire basement in leaves while she remained tied up, she was petrified that the leaves were put there not because they comforted Matthew or because they felt familiar to him (because he had worked as a tree trimmer in the past), but as *accelerant* so that he if chose, Matthew could simply light the entire place up within seconds and kill them both. Imagine her extreme, constant terror as she sat in those leaves. I'm not surprised she was found with severe dissociative disorder as a result of her ordeal. There is another excellent and informative video on this by Sherrilyn Dale that I highly recommend.

@IAMCAKEGOD 6 ай бұрын

This whole family was failed. :’( poor sarah, sounds like she was a trophy to him.

@edenmeden3090 6 ай бұрын

Justice for all women and children’s safety! ❤

@Hope.D_111 6 ай бұрын

Justice for everyone’s safety.

@DylonsBBGorl 6 ай бұрын

@@Hope.D_111People like you are actually so annoying 😭

@witt-yp3yo 6 ай бұрын

the fact that they just didn't check on her pisses me off

@peytonhall61 6 ай бұрын

I like how I randomly stumbled on this girls KZfaq and now I love watching her videos

@lyssa955 6 ай бұрын

I was left wondering more about Sarah. What a sad case.

@TheMarissaHope 6 ай бұрын

Maybe it gets said later in the video, but I cant get over these damn leaves! Pretty sure the leaves are to muffle sound. He added insulation to try to sound proof the room.

@jaimiesamson7144 5 ай бұрын

Yes!!! Same thing I was thinking!

@ieattrash1149 5 ай бұрын

It was said in another comment but supposedly he had an attraction to tress hence the leaves in his house

@sailor_marsxo 6 ай бұрын

Just in time for me to disacociate from work 😂❤

@valerievazquez866 6 ай бұрын

Me at this moment lol

@kimberlyhernandez6328 4 ай бұрын

Idk why but I LOVE listening to these stories from you! I love how you tell the stories just in general. This dude was definitely playing the victim and it's so frustrating how he acted like a child and didn't confess until the 3 Interigation

@anastasiasteinbeck3498 6 ай бұрын

R.I.P. Tina, Cody, Stephanie :(

@anastasiasteinbeck3498 6 ай бұрын

And Tanner, poor puppy

@maryclairemorgan 6 ай бұрын

this happened in the same county where i grew up and i’ve been waiting for someone to cover it… it’s so surreal. thank you for the great coverage and content as per usual ❤️

@arcaneeirene 6 ай бұрын

Hi hailey, thankyou for posting these videos. I have been watching you for a long time now and I never get tired of it. I listen to your videos while I am working and it always makes me feel like as if a friend is talking to me so it has been less lonely. God bless you!

@maliaann6393 6 ай бұрын

Girl, I love your quick wit n sharp reaction comments. I wish you'd put more of them back into your content!

@taylorl.7115 6 ай бұрын

Girl please do a video on this makeup look or drop the products 😭😭 that is one of the prettiest lip colors and most seamless concealer I've seen

@rileywrite2327 6 ай бұрын

I think I might know the point of the leaves but it’s unfortunate. I imagine he intended to kill in the bathroom and then light the place on fire. The leaves may have been to get the fire to spread. It’s so incredible that she was alive, but so heartbreaking what she went through. I’m glad he didn’t get to finish his plan.

@catfishzach 5 ай бұрын

YES please do a video on phrogging girlie

@floatingsmiley 6 ай бұрын

I like how you jumped in and then did your intro to keep the audience hooked. I missed your content! Edit... I just got to the phrogging part... I would have lived without this info.... So glad I'm watching this at night (sarcasm)

@mothmanman 6 ай бұрын

yay i just got out of school and get to see this!!

@coco.clownie 6 ай бұрын

Same!! 😜

@blacksheepsleep2951 5 ай бұрын

When she mentioned him also buying a turkey sandwich that’s when I knew he was crazy. I didn’t need the leaf floor and walls to confirm my suspicions

@sallykohorst8803 6 ай бұрын

Thanks for this case and thanks for hard work. Nice to see you again.

@backdoorsluts_9 6 ай бұрын

Omg I remember hearing about this. Aside from the fact that the poor girl just lost he whole family, I’ve always been afraid of piles of leaves cause of bugs and critters and snakes 😬😬 I’d be scared that stuff would be crawling and you can hear them rustling in them

@char-daniel2102 6 ай бұрын

Absolutely love your work

@fadedpolaroid 6 ай бұрын

PLEASE do a video on 8 Passengers again!!! The first one was so good and with all the recent events myself and others want to hear their stories from the beginning!

@sweetnonh7190 6 ай бұрын

I just don't think he is normal and also not as mentally ill as he says he is , just something in between , poor sarah I don't think there's cure to her ptsd its so traumatic

@MadeleineTayloranne Ай бұрын

I wish he would have talked about his leaf obsession bc I’m still pretty confused about that piece of the puzzle 🤔

@theprinceofinadequatelighting 6 ай бұрын

Hailey, do you ever think about doing vlogs again? I miss your vlogs! I think since this channel's content is so well optimized for true crime, you could start a casual second channel and call it like "Hayley Elizabeth Vlogs" or something, and that way you could post whatever you want there whenever you feel like it, without messing up your algorithm optimization. I think a lot of us would subscribe in half a heartbeat! Just a thought; much love to you and any content you do!

@brynnwharton7677 6 ай бұрын

I read or heard somewhere on another coverage of this case that the dude was actually sexually attracted to leaves/trees. I cant find anything to back this up, but im curious if anyone else has?

@TheKikamaty 6 ай бұрын

please do the frogging deep dive video!! great idea , very curious

@laural2868 6 ай бұрын

Umm, “phroggers” sound pretty stupid because you don’t know who you are dealing with if you get caught. We have strong laws in my state for defending your property so we defend first, then ask questions. It’s not a joke and it’s not even remotely ok to do something like that and I would not feel bad about defending my home and myself from some idiot “phrogger”.

@0eveez 5 ай бұрын

I just discovered ur vids with the "conspiracy theory in JohnBennet" and i've been binge watching all ur videos since! You deserve the 1mil subs SO EFFING MUCHHH❤

@TheSwordbird98sPage 23 күн бұрын

It's forever wild to me that cops can break in and SWAT someone with zero evidence outside of a call but a wellness check just gets a knock

@fonsecxv 6 ай бұрын

the fine fine line that if the officers took any more time the daughter wouldve been killed too

@randompetsandnuns 6 ай бұрын

I think that the leaves on the floor and the bags of leaves, shows there's something going on with him, other than just wanting attention. 🙄 Thanks for the video, Hailey! ✌🏻💜😇

@Jordysdreamworld 6 ай бұрын

Listen. The case is sad, but as soon as I heard about the dog my heart broke. Animals are just so pure

@kirbyraee 6 ай бұрын

I grew up here, I’ll never forget this

@araa4608 4 ай бұрын

Listening to your videos and playing animal crossing has become a daily routine and I’m here for it

@BazookaKazooCahoots 5 ай бұрын

“The guys house was filled with leaves, who does that?” *Vines and plant things all around you* Me: not the same at all but still some how made me giggle lol

@lynseyborgen 5 ай бұрын

Maybe the leaves were to muffle sounds. The leaves on the floor to muffle sounds coming up from basement and bathroom so if he let her out to use it she couldn’t be heard

@user-jz6ph8mm2k 6 ай бұрын

I never see anyone cover this! I’m from Knox county and my aunt was part of the search for the family. I was still young but I remember that it was very huge and very scary.

@nicholasschoonbeck6866 6 ай бұрын

I always wonder how men like this "are allowed" to live on their own. I mean, as a teenager, I was pretty out of control, I had been adopted, abused & neglected & basically on my own by 15, but its not like adults weren't involved in my life. They weren't really sure what do to about my anger, but they wouldn't have given me a home & a vehicle & just let me out into the world, especially after the first time I got in real legal trouble for stealing. And so much of his strange behavior would be seen by the people in his life, IF they check in on him. No, you cannot fill your home with leaves, & now we need to talk about why you would do that.

@e_i_e_i_bro 5 ай бұрын

Where else are they going to go?

@little.prince 6 ай бұрын

They found Brianna Ghey’s killers. I hope she rests easier now. Hopefully we’ll get an episode about it once details surface?

@LandenKauer 24 күн бұрын

this whole case is so sad but as soon as i saw the picture of a dog i started sobbing. he was just a poor animal not knowing what was going on and was probably barking out of confusion.

@proudestmonkee07 6 ай бұрын

I feel called out at the end watching this right as I lie in bed sick. 😅

@BabyCharity0606 6 ай бұрын

Omg I remember this!!! I lived just a couple minutes away during this event!

@k8spice648 5 ай бұрын

Why’re the cops so terrible in the beginning? I just got to the second cop call after the boss found the blood and he’s like “oh I just got back yesterday” like bro no one cares what is this? A casual call?

@krystal_marlana 6 ай бұрын

You should add the victims names in the title or description because I kept getting them mixed up❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥

@keychainpucca2825 6 ай бұрын

I love you Hailey!! ❤

@em1ly227 6 ай бұрын

I LOVE YOU SM IM NEVER THIS EARLY BECAUSE OF COLLEGE CLASSES BUT THE NOTIF BELL IS THE GOATTT

@goodbher9244 5 ай бұрын

If I found someone living in my house I'd literally be so terrified that I would probably attack them thinking they were trying to hurt me, and end up killing them, because when I go into fight or flight I don't flight, I just fight. I literally almost caught my sleep paralysis demon, but it vanished into the wall as I tried to grab it, like even something that terrifying my reaction was to hurt it before it could hurt me. 😂

@ashleyleigh28 6 ай бұрын

Hey Hailey, thanks so much for your videos! Always look forward to them :) Just wanted to mention one small thing that might be helpful to know - I don’t think you use the word “ironically” right. I think you mean “interestingly” or something like that. Just for noting! 😊 thanks again for your videos and for all the work you do.

@Im.sorry.ms.jackson 6 ай бұрын

I've been craving a new video from you!

@skywalker21ls 4 ай бұрын

The fact that a well done wellness check could have very likely ended the girl's suffering sooner infuriates me. She laid in a basement scared to the point of absolute dissociation for four days just because the police could not bother to do their job properly. I hope there was some kind of consequence for them as well.

@anastasiasteinbeck3498 6 ай бұрын

Wow those poor kids

@EyesToSee-yk3cj 12 күн бұрын

I can’t help but think that the leaves were used as a type of sound barrier even tho I don’t think it would have been very effective…

@Witch_Tittz420 6 ай бұрын

How this video only got 189 likes 😮 wth 🤦🏻‍♀️ You are amazing at storytelling.

@lifewithadaeze2128 6 ай бұрын

Okay side note but I absolutely love your make up this day! 😍

@juliamartinez325 6 ай бұрын

Finally Hailey posted ❤️❤️❤️❤️

@purbabie 6 ай бұрын

Hailey bby ur so close to 1 mil 🥺

@plutheo8267 5 ай бұрын

Please do a whole video about phrogging, that is so scary LMAO

@shaedabrattt 5 ай бұрын

Phrogging: the forbidden and non consensual hide and seek

@elainegarcia474 5 ай бұрын

For welfare checks, officers can’t just barge in to the house, if no one answers the door they’re not allowed to enter. It’s up to the friends/family to provide a way to get in So when you say “they just left” as if they did a disservice it’s kind of irritating lol

@yourneighborhoodmoonfaery 2 ай бұрын

31:45 girl this story is wild after but can we take a second to appreciate them brows!!!! They on FLEEK fr from

@Diamond.H.514 6 ай бұрын

So squatting??? Just with a pretty term

@kaylani746 5 ай бұрын

I laughed so hard when he bragged in his written confession I did it all by myself 😂😂😂 it was the delivery from Hailey I’m imagining how he would have said that if I read it but he’s sick and doesn’t deserve to be release

@ermagerhd6140 5 ай бұрын

There’s a movie about Phrogging that still terrifies me to this day

@RawTimee 5 ай бұрын

Not her trying to tell him what happened and hes just like “omg okay i just need the address.”

@LD-jj2tg 6 ай бұрын

HAILEY MAMA!!!!!!! there you are!

@luvvsick7925 6 ай бұрын

hi hailey! love the quality of ur videos, i was wondering what type of mic you use?

@malthompson388 6 ай бұрын

my dream in life is to do her makeup for one of her videos

@RoynonBabies 5 ай бұрын

They always say that missing work was so unlike the victim

@Luvindove 6 ай бұрын

Please please do a video on frogging

@avadaniii 6 ай бұрын

i need to know what lip product you’re using here PLEASE

@Bepsilepsi 5 ай бұрын

I was just wondering if you still do podcasts on Spotify? When I clicked to follow to the app and open up your page for this documentary it wouldn’t work so I tried safari and it didn’t work again. Edit: lol Nevermind I found it

@rachelwuest9776 6 ай бұрын

Yo what was up with the leaves though..?

@schnitzel7244 5 ай бұрын

PLEASSEEEEE DO A VIDEO ABOUT PHROGGING😭😭😭

@tycamp5968 5 ай бұрын

My question is why didn’t Sarah leave or call the police? He attacked Cody, Sarah ran, he caught her, but her in the basement, grabbed her again and but her in the kitchen, left for long enough to go to gas station, get gas, get pulled over, drive home, set a fire, drink a bottle of wine and drive back to Sarah. That whole time she didn’t try to do anything? He then put her in the back of a car and left her in a public area for hours.

@TheAnonymousuchiha1225 5 ай бұрын

She was a kid. Not an adult and even adults freeze up in such situations. What’s wrong with your sense of empathy.

@tycamp5968 5 ай бұрын

@@TheAnonymousuchiha1225 nobody said I didn’t feel bad for her it’s factually evident that she had time and opportunity to escape so I asked a simple question as to why she wouldn’t have.. leave me alone creep

@TheAnonymousuchiha1225 5 ай бұрын

@@tycamp5968 how TF am I a creep for simply calling you out. I just corrected your misplaced sense of anger and reminded you that the person whose actions you’re condemning is a 13 year old child not a 30 year old adult. And honestly even if a 30 year old froze up like the child trapped in such a situation no one can blame them. The kid just saw her brother die, her mother and an aunt dead, this grown arse man practically pounced at her, so yeah there was very little she could’ve done there. It’s rather a very primitive response to go numb and dissociate when these things happen.

@pie1o1morris46 5 ай бұрын

Love the sesshomaru outro

@riddimfairy 5 ай бұрын

just found ur channel and omg!!!!!!! my yt feed has been feeling so boring bc i’ve seen all my regular channels videos LOL. cue me getting your video on autoplay!!! i’m ready to be besties!!! i love the way you covered the case. you were respectful but also kept it light. it’s a very hard balance but you queen have slayed!!! can’t wait to binge your videos!!! watch out for my reaction comments 🤣😭

@poprocx96 6 ай бұрын

Hello!!🎉😊

@sarahxweese 6 ай бұрын

i remember hearing about this when i was 10, it happened 20 minutes away from me

@itstricezi 6 ай бұрын

Hey, your Spotify link isn't working; I'd love to listen to the audio, are you still active on there?

@franksobotka2877 6 ай бұрын

Could you do Janett Christman or Stephanie Crowe next please? Thanks!

@FC-hj9ub 5 ай бұрын

Yes the wellness checks are laughable, but that's what a democratic coutnry is like. You can't just go in without a warrant without probable cause. If some one wants to be alone that's their right. Wellness checks are normally used by abusive family members/partners to establish contact after that person will no longer pick up your calls.

@Bepsilepsi 5 ай бұрын

Let me mention how the cops kept answering with such a blunt tone. No tone whatsoever… like tell me you don’t give a flying flap without telling me you don’t give a flying flap 😭 If I was a cop I’d answer with more than an ‘Mhm 😐😒’