It's so terrible that this is something you have to go through, I'm so sorry

That's horrible, deepest condolences

W// s**cide I know this comment is a month old now, but I just want to say this. Hearing about a friend’s sudden death is one of the worst feeling in the world in my opinion. I’ve lost a friend to themself in 2020, and I know it’s a different case, but I hope your friend gets the justice they deserve and you can find as much peace as you can after such a horrible thing. Take care of yourself.❤ -deepest condolences

My partners friend, who I worked with and thought was amazing and beautiful but didn’t know that well, was murdered in 2013, and yes yes yessss!!! In her case we know everything that happened, but hearing that a true crime KZfaqr, only a couple of years later, talking about it was HORRENDOUS. Luckily I didn’t watch it, my friend was talking about true crime and I mentioned it and she said she had actually seen a video about her. It’s horrible the blame that gets put on them when you don’t know them, but when you know them and to think people blame them for it, it’s awful. Family’s should always be taken into account in situations like this, ESPECIALLY when it’s so recent. I’m now able to talk about her with my partner without feeling a knot in my stomach, but her parents probably can’t. If it’s done respectfully, it’s better but still devastating.

lol

My god, yes! It's on all the shows, too. Every single female victim has her physical appearance described, but you never hear that said about a male victim.

“such a shame. she was so beautiful.” at least compliment them as a person? if something happened to me and everyone said “she was so pretty.. a shame.” instead of giving actual sympathy i will haunt them.

@@spoon3073 this reminds me of a true crime KZfaqr by the name of Eleanor Neale, I haven’t watched her in a while but I do remember that she actually does mention how the victims were in life, by describing their personality, hobbies, and who they were to their peers. It’s respectable, compared to what other true crime content creators may make of the victim.

@@rqnbix4872 I’ve been binging her channel a lot lately and I love her videos, she goes into so much detail but in a way that is respectful to the victims and their families and that’s honestly how it should be. There’s also Hailey Elizabeth who does similar videos in much of the same way :3

News do the same

I’m so sorry that you had to go through any of this

sex trafficking is worse than being murdered in my opinion, that sounds horrific. your experience is just as valid

it absolutely is in the same ball park. Never apologise for being a victim

It definitely is the same 'playing field' i hope you're healing and i hope you're having a good and happy life now

Hey, just wanted to thank everyone that has replied to this comment. I appreciate the validation and the support. It’s a taboo subject to talk about in my family, so it means a lot to be able to be open and not dismissed. ❤️

PEROID. Somebody gets it. This is real life not some traditional Halloween story

EXACTLY though

EXACTLY!! I had seen a true crime video on an ongoing case that was sponsored?! All that seems like to me is a lack of sympathy and respect for everyone involved.

Wait… there are people doing MUKBANG TRUE CRIME VIDEOS?!?!?

@@megatronsroyalemissary382 YESS

Ew. Glad i never heard that. Fortunately i found a few podcasts that i find respectful (and they actually do their research, which i found out with some creators isn’t always granted). It’s just sad that people always look for some sensation and forget the actual victims

Do you remember what the name of the podcast was? Not asking so I can flame them or anything, I just want to steer clear of them if I ever happen to be looking around..

😬 yikes

I've heard that one before, on multiple podcasts and channels. It's like they're calling the victim incompetent it's so fucked

I had to stop listening to Stephanie Soo's podcast because they'd have sextoy ads in the middle. You JUST explained a case about a child who got molested and now I'm listening to how much you like lube? Maybe choose your sponsors more carefully...

Exactly, it's something I've never understood and been largely disgusted by especially in cases of SA. There are always these arguments surrounding the victim and all I can think is why we aren't also talking about the abusers. The victims are shamed and have all the attention focused on them when I don't hear nearly enough people condemning the person who actually committed the horrible act.

It’s awful. Points out how police don’t take stalking cases seriously at all either, until something violent takes place. Truly depressing.

There are many cases where the victims survive and tell their story from either making a book to working with the police department. It also depends on how people are telling the the crime, if they are either focusing on the criminal rather than the victim. Yes, what you said does happen a lot more unfortunately, which is why we should start making changes. Talk to the families, focus on the victims, and start focusing for the justice implications on these certain cases. Not only is it informative, but it doesn’t glamorize on the criminal.

The dead can’t speak for themselves. Victim blaming projection disgusts me

yep, i pretty much have the latter crimes that were committed against me and let me tell you lol it def is like that

It’s terrifying how desensitized people have become to tragedies. I wish more people were empathetic towards your trauma rather than twisting it into their own personal entertainment. I am so sorry you’ve been put into that situation.

Holy shit. First I'm so sorry that happened to you and your family. I hope that one day you can get closure for this. I admit that I enjoy the knowledge that I gain from true crime, such as methodology, the science, how the justice system can be lazy and fail. But I and no one should ever forget that those are the accounts of real people who went through something I wouldn't wish on my worse enemy.

When you tell certain people about it, why..? If you want nobody to comment or question on it, don't mention it.

@@kingexplosionmurderfuckoff9376 there are some situations that you have to tell some people about your parental figures and it's basic human decency to not comment on trauma

@@kingexplosionmurderfuckoff9376 Dude wtf. A person shouldn’t have to keep something major like that a secret if they don’t want to. Not to mention, old cases tend to get solved years or even centuries later because victims family members still talk about the victims case. Sometimes they even actually received justice. Late af but some type of justice nonetheless.

holy shit, that part about them claiming it was trafficking because it was "normal in their culture" made my jaw drop. abuse is not "normal" in ANY culture. it just takes cultures by storm because the people in power are abusers themselves and they allow heinous crimes to happen regularly because they don't feel anything for the people they're meant to protect. the people you're talking about act as if countries with high femicide and rape rates don't have constant protests and aren't begging outside countries for help daily. it's just plain racism and dehumanization to assume otherwise.

I’m so sorry this is happening and I wish nothing but the best for your friends family and you 💕

I'm guessing they were Chilean? I've heard a lot of stereotypes about Chile, the biggest one I've heard is "ohhh they do human trafficking!!" because people love to assume all Hispanic people do human trafficking. that or Mexico someone killed a taxi cab driver bc she THOUGHT, THOUGHT, that he was driving her to Mexico... because a sign they passed had a name that she somehow thought meant they were in Mexico. I'm not sure what it said but I'm gonna guess that the name of the area was probably written in Spanish.

Holy shit that's racist and horrible a hell. As if her going missing wasn't already horrifying enough, I am so sorry people acted like that :(

"That's normal in their culture" 🤬😡😡 that's racist

omg big fan hi

I kind of thought it would happen after a lawsuit.

Oop 🤭

Crazy coincidence, was just watching your Thugnificent vid. Love both of you guys videos, I watch it while I design!

Is this why I haven't seen my regulars? I love true crime and makeup videos

My favourite would be cayleigh Elise

@@quenanatasya8650 omg yes, Caileigh I miss her... 😢

@@krabatnightmare I feel like she's the only creator that actually do in depth research and respect the family and victim, even if the victim is a john or Jane doe. She always speak and present the case somberly too. God I miss her qwq

THIS!!!! The number of times I hear about the lack of initiative and action the police force take in most cases is horrifying! Like honestly, they dont truly investigate potential leads and it allows serial killers to get away just under their noses over and over again. It is absolutely ridiculous. I feel like if we all cared enough, we can make a change and demand the legal system to actually do their job properly. If all the people who watch true crimes start a movement to better protect potential future victims, something good could come out of all these true crimes media.

@@quenanatasya8650 exactly! I only watched her, because I could see how much she cared, and also I just love her personality. Also, I liked the way she made her subscriber storytime videos. I hope she's doing better

@@accounfour2402 in the lyrics of lotta true crime by penelope scott, "she could've killed you. She had every right, you just caught her off guard tonight." Innocent murder victims are never weak.

@@accounfour2402 is it?? A woman hasn’t been murdered or drugged for saying no or standing up for herself?

@@accounfour2402 do you think people who are capable of murder are going to stop at 'i feel uncomfortable with this'? i've never met anyone who would be comfortable getting murdered

@@accounfour2402 there is zero scientific or socialoligistic evidence for this, claiming such is not only dangerous but disgusting

while I've heard that as advice for women or transmascs during their childhood purely because cis men will take advantage of someone's fear that being assertive or even mean could lead to being killed, but it's just a lose-lose situation. even though I understand the thing said, at least from the standpoint of someone who once had to pretend to be a woman and heard such advice, I def have to say it's extremely gross that they said that when talking abt a victim. saying it in general is less inappropriate but still gross. ick.

That’s just disgusting. How would someone be so detached that they say something like *that*? WHAT? it’s just so disrespectful to the actual victim, it’s vile.

This is really scary there needs to be more awareness about this

100% this, this and other incredible movements should be what we draw attention to!

Yeah, Guatemala for example, it isn't like there is some kind of tribe, but there are a lot of indigenous woman, and when something happens to them, either the family does something or leave it to the police, and most of the time police overlooks those cases.

MMWIG (don’t forget the girls too)

Thank you. MMIW is highly important to indigenous peoples of all nations, making podcasts for money is disgusting since we are actively demonized for being self governing. Government leads these affairs to the reservations with little intervention. Minus Washington state, they’re TRYING to make a push to make indigenous women priority. I believe Colorado as well. Should be country wide. Women are important to our culture and are what make our culture.

💯

That's one thing that makes me believe there's value in true crime content and I hoped to see more of that, along with being respectful to the the victim qnd and their loved ones. It can be a huge eye opener and hopefully lead into people looking into how fucked up our justice system is from them to now.

Why is it always Canada who's the worst too? Ugh!

@@laurel__ Fr when I heard about how dumb the police was in the Paul Bernardo case I lost my sh*t.

The Jeffrey Dahmer case was no exception. The cops brushed off a group of women after they witnessed one of Dahmer’s victims injured. The cops have that boy’s blood on their hands

That one is great! It really highlights how our own interest in all these murderers is what pushes them to want to be infamous. Sure, a lot of these people who were ever able to consider doing something that horrendous could end up doing it, but so many of them are encouraged by the angry and horrified responses they could get. Like in that doc, if people hadn't tried so hard to track him down, would he have moved on to even worse acts of violence or would he have gotten bored because no one gave him attention?

I loved that one for asking the uncomfortable question that lurks in the back of our minds but is never spoken aloud.

Kinda hypocritical lol

I don't know if it cause murders but it causes a lot bad behavior. Harassing family members and claiming "you're just trying to get justice or help the victim." Accusing 50 people but just calling it theories. Making it into a much more complicated thing just for some views or likes. But so many are so obsessed with fame now I can see how it can end in a horrible crime

God this documentary completely freaked me out. It’s honestly so scary because it felt like he was doing it for attention, which is HORRIFYING. Horrible. I still think about it because it scared me so bad

thank you, i stopped watching them because they made me so scared to even go outside sometimes.

I actually like it for the same (opposite?) reason- I have a severe fear of death that makes me morbidly curious. I lost my sister 5 years ago and ever since have been pretty obsessed with it

same, i have severe anxiety normally and watching crime stuff made me really paranoid

it relieves me to know i'm not alone here. my mom was always a huge true crime fan growing up and so i grew up hearing about so many awful cases, it always sent me into a panic. i've tried to avoid true crime since moving out, but it has been so hard with the recent true crime boom :(

Feel free to disregard this if you don’t want to work through death anxiety, I know it’s something that can be so scary and it’s daunting! I understand! But I’d HIGHLY recommend watching Ask A Mortician here on KZfaq! She’s helped ease so much of my anxiety around death and she’s so lovely with how she approaches it. She’s soft and kind and quite funny in a lot of her videos, and she’s very educational. She’s written a few books, too; I’d start with “Will My Cat Eat My Eyeballs?”-its death questions from kids, which I think would make it easier to muster as a first read because of who it’s written from the perspective of/who it’s written for! 💕💕

I refuse to watch ANY true crime doc! 9 times out of 10, the documentary is literally produced with the intent to garner sympathy or understanding towards the killer! The victim is very rarely important, but the life the murderer lived is very important in these docs.

this doc series has just been listed on HBOmax (in the US) but i had no idea that was the reason behind the production. just awful. it's a small consolation, at least, that it's the family that is control of the narrative so that the series isn't as exploitative as these things tend to be.

Quem?

What was the name of the documentary?

Quem foi? Curiosa. Aliás, o teu comentário é um bom exemplo de como true crime pode ser algo bom ou ruim.

@@AnHeC making jokes or mukbang while discussing tragedies that happened to real people is absolutely insensitive. They're just making profit of it while disrespecting the victims and their families.

​@@liri6343exact, i find it incredible that people aren't bothered by STRANGERS to the victims getting monetized / generating profit using the victim's story... Like where did we go wrong

@@AnHeC My guy just turn yourself in to the nuthouse at this point. You’re too far gone.

🫂

As someone that's a fan of all these channels, + buzzfeed unsolved whom make constant jokes, I suspect it's because creators like these know that there's no chance in hell of converting the big channels to their side, so they go after the people they feel are weaker in the space. Y'know. Like a bunch of cowards.

@@clev7989 wym by this? Converting what channels and who are the weaker people?

That Chapter is really pissing me off. So disrespectful. The only TC content I can watch now are dreading and Dave's Lemmonade, who cover cases with upmost respect and attention to facts and familys' wishes.

​@@ceebee3083 I suggest Eleanor Neale. She's very respectful from what I've seen.

With that chapter, I get why he has done that, I stopped watching because I know likelihood is the story will be someone wanting life insurance money, it is a joke how often it is, it is a pisstake now that nothing about it has changed, if that chapter could change how life insurance works so people will stop murdering im sure he would, but I think mocking it is the best way to go, show america how fucking stupid their policies are and how obvious it is shit needs to change, it's insane how common it is for people to murder for money, that's the real issue, but to you the issue is that he is mocking that fact, mocking everyone playing ignorant of that fact

yes! that channel has great videos and he’s always so respectful! i also really love how he takes the time to visit important locations regarding the story, and pays respects to the victim(s). he doesn’t make it into some spectacle like a mukbang or a makeup tutorial

You said it! Real people! Real tragedies! Not fiction for detached, click fodder, easily dismissed! These are the stories of human beings who died heartbreakingly and horribly with loved ones left behind who bear the scars of loss. Respect should be shown.

I watch that channel. It is very good.

I watched that video a few days ago, it really stuck with me how ppl could carelessly throw that term around.

It's also completely different hearing about cases where no one affected by the tragedy is still alive. It's much more ethical to cover those instances.

Ones I like are "I survived" podcast and this is actually happening pod

+++

But when you studied it it wasnt?

@@ivananarchy17 you’re really doing to act like you don’t understand the difference between getting a degree that actually allows you to help the victims and exploiting their stories for likes and views? Critical thinking hard

@@binkin7304 thank you, couldn't have said it better.

If you have any recommendations on those kinds of unfiction books? I’ve done a lot of digging on the internet for other mediums of this genre, but I haven’t seen books line that anywhere?

@@slapjacq2131 I forgot the title sadly, but I'll do some digging through my netflix list! there sadly really aren't many at all especially books, so I'm hoping the genre gets more popularity!

oh yeah! I like that genre of analog horror. lately my favorite have been FNAF ones or just FNAF inspired ones because usually they delve more into the missing children's incident instead of scary funnie bear. which tbh I find very... neat. perhaps honorable. as it humanizes children who are so often reduced to just a name and a death. while they're not real children this time, I do believe that humanizing them could potentially get people to do the same with real children.😊

Lake Mungo

I'd recommend the SCP Foundation as written unfiction media, though mostly not based around crimes. It's a wiki for unusual/supernatural beings and objects and all of it is free

them describing her as "exotic" when talking about her murder is so disgusting because many asian women are murdered as the result of their race being fetishized, especially in recent years. I'm so sorry to hear that your aunt has faced such creepy and tone deaf treatment by the media.

That is absolutely disgusting... I hope your family is healing from the loss

omg do you watch stephanie harlowe? shes so respectful and informative in her videos. i think she's the best true crime creator

@@cjmmoseley i second this. Stephanie is amazing

This is why I watch Kendall Rae.

@@adahishamman I'd advise otherwise, a comment in this comment section went into detail of a snakey thing Kendell did about a person's deaths and the people related.

Have you listed to Stolen: Surviving St. Michael's? I think I prefer limited series true crime content where people can more intimately and expertly investigate an issue. There's less risk of overextending to topics that'll be handled less sensitively in the name of churning out infinite content

You're not wrong. There have been instances of exactly that, the z0d*ac for example. He had written letters to the police and newsletters about his popularity.

Yes, same!

This is my biggest gripe with the genre, they always tell the killer’s story and merely gloss over their victims. We are most interested in getting to know the killer than honoring the victims. And it specially irks me that it is often the case of a male killer and mostly female victims.

Yeah, the only true crime content I can stand is by creators who have consistently and explicitly vilified the perpetrator while also making sure to talk about the victim and what they were like so that people know it was a real person whose life was altered/cut short. It’s irresponsible to do otherwise imo.

Good point!!!

maybe the families could set google alerts for the case? so they get notified when an article or video is made about the victim? I feel like that could help them deal with it on their own terms.

🎯🎯🎯 Also imagine spending a week researching recording and editing a videos about a case just to help told to take it down. KZfaqrs dont get paid per hour. Only by viewership so that can be a huge impact on a KZfaqrs ability to pay their bills. Not trying to pick a fight but it’s a sad reality

I honestly think giving a portion of your profits to each victim is just the best move. You’re making money from their tragedy, so keep doing your job but give them a portion out of respect

Exactly

@@shayadair6218 If you want to, sure. But their tragefy is public knowledge at that point.

The whole “lighten the mood” excuse makes no sense. You could just NOT talk about such a heavy topic. And full offense, we need to get rid of this idea that “heavy things” need to be immediately followed by comedy or relief. That’s not how real life works. This isn’t an action adventure film for kids. Some things are dark, and they should remain untouched by attempts at levity. People should be made to be uncomfortable and sad when they choose to listen to such hard topics. The people who went through these crimes didn’t get to laugh afterward, so why should we as listeners? It feels insulting. It feels..weak, I don’t know. Like we can’t stand to be uncomfortable for an hour or so simply listening to a horrible crime? That’s “too steep” a price to pay for their curiosity? Imagine how the victim/s felt going through it. You can stand to sit there feeling uncomfortable. You’re not the one who actually suffered, so no, I don’t think you need that little pick-me-up. It feels like how when white people get their feelings tended to because they feel distraught over hearing the abuses suffered by POC. The attention is shifted from the victim onto the non-agent, as if their feelings matter more. It’s self-absorbed and tone deaf.

It can't all be doom and gloom though, to be fair. There should be little jokes made during the topic of murder and other horrendous things, if the jokes work though and are not made towards the victim or anything (depending on circumstance) then I see it as okay. Plus some positives come from horrible cases, community gatherings and strengthening of the understanding of security. In other cases we don't learn from it. The jokes have to be there to simply ease the heaviness of a subject. Not everything has to be just dark and depressing. It's informative media c'mon...

But society makes jokes about horrible events and death all the time. It doesn’t HAVE to be so grim and depressing as long as you’re staying respectful with the jokes you make. The age old saying of “comedy = tragedy + time” exists for a reason. And if anything, the onslaught of news about wars and mass shootings have done more to desensitize us to death than the true crime genre.

To the two comments who defended this: please reread what I said and what you did. There are ways to talk about crimes that do not include making fun of the killer or the victims. At the end of the day, these people are mentally ill and making fun of them continues to belittle the struggles of mentally ill people. Idk, it’s the same way Holocaust jokes aren’t funny?? Jokes about any crime are not okay, and defending them in general is quite frankly unsettling. If you can’t stomach it, read a SFW article and support victims and their families. You don’t have to hear about every blood curdling detail to support a case.

@@lilgrac3717 I’m sorry what? Are we really comparing the issues mentally Ill people face to murders? There are people who have mental illnesses who don’t commit horrible atrocities. And like I said, humans have been making jokes about crimes and shitty situations since forever. I’m willing to bet money that you’ve probably laughed at someone’s standup where they joke about crime. You can make jokes about someone/something while still staying respectful to the topic you’re discussing. If you can’t, then don’t make the jokes. It’s not the jokes themselves that’s the problem, it’s when people can’t tell them properly.

Yo wtf... these kind of people are the worst. They have no connection to the real world and live in their weird bubble ugh

Jesus wtf is wrong with ppl

That makes me feel sick

Who's the artist?

These are the types of people who always say “I OnLy Do It To CoPe” 🙄

If you don’t mind me asking- which podcast was it?

You’ve made some really great points. I would like to sum it up/add something here: True crime is fun until you realize it could happen to you, and then tc isn’t so quirky anymore

@@lva1786 ^^

@@lva1786 it's "Morbid" most likely

i don't watch them because it 100% feels gossipy

i used to think it was interesting at first until i realized how much they sensationalized it like hello? this is not some scandal you gossip about over cheese and crackers, they're literally a victim 😦😦

I don't mind the makeup, but some of them need to take it more seriously and also talk about the victims

I only came to that though when bailey was talking about something, I can't remember what but it wasn't what she said, it was the way she said it, seemed far too excited talking about victims of murder

@@sarasilly i think danielle kirsty is a good example of this. she always talks extensively about victims and often and to take breaks to admit the horror of the situation while not glamorizing the killer.

thats so true when you put it that way lol.

Depends where in the western world as funeral wakes are still practice but many. But yeah I've been surprised by how detached the process was in anglo-saxons countries (soecially the US)...

Well, I mean, it depends of what part of the western world you are referring to, like, I'm Mexican, and Mexico is in the west, and we have día de muertos, and it's really nice, like last year I saw a lot of people in the cemetery, playing music, eating, drinking, and some children playing between the tombs. And let me tell you, fascination with death, or curiosity about ut, isn't any less stronger than in the USA, I'd dare to say that it's even stronger here.

THIS!! Honestly the crossover of these topics introduced me to Ask A Mortician, a channel run by a really incredible Mortician, Caitlin Doughty, that wants to end our western stigma against death (or at least lessen our blind fear/avoidance of it). Nowadays I rarely listen to true crime content, but I follow Caitlin to this day and have read/listened to 2 of her 3 books (From Here to Eternity & Will My Cat Eat My Eyeballs and other questions about dead bodies)

There's a big stimga around death in the us specially and we don't tend to associate with it. It's like a big boogyman. I guess that's why a lot of us are interested in it, it's not apart our culture and we just don't know.

People that go around calling themselves "empaths" are a whole red flag 💀

imagine going through the whole process of making that TikTok and not ONCE realising how gross it makes them look 💀 talk about no self awareness

We should talk more about misanthropy, people treat it as if its ok and not like racism or at least not like having racist thoughts or anything similar but it is very similar, you hate an entire species of animal just because a lot of them are bad, you saying, "people suck and they are a virus" is the same thing as "people of col0r suck and they are a virus" in the sence that you are generalising an entire type of living being group without any evidence of it

Fr it always disturbed me like deeply

@@marmolejomartinezjoseemili9043 I agree with what you say but the comparison to racism doesn’t sit right with me.

jesus christ, alarma is next level shit

I’ve never seen someone describe it as morbidly inclined but I love it.

@@Temu69recordsdotcom when you grow up mexican you encounter it eventually 😭

@@MD-od2ht I heard the phrase somewhere in the past and thought it fit me perfectly 😂

@@Temu69recordsdotcom holy shit i just checked it out they really dont beat around the bush with their covers

I also have trouble with anxiety, and I think it should be discussed how much crime there actually is, what it's like, and how rare murders are. A young woman was brutally murdered close to where I live, apparently just because she was outside and the murderer happened to be there. That has freaked out the whole neighborhood, especially since the murderer hasn't yet been found (the crime happened around 2 am, and the witnesses didn't notice much, also no cameras in the area). However we need to keep on living. These cases don't happen everyday, indeed they're very rare, and the crimes just get a huge amount of publicity. Btw I don't know if there's true crime stuff about this particular case, but I bet there is, or will be in the future. It has gained a lot of publicity here, and the cops had two suspects already, but neither was guilty. I just don't want to watch or hear any sensationalist speculations. They seem disgusting as an idea, and out of touch, when we already know what needs to be known about this case. I've seen where it happened, that's the only extra thing I needed, because it was so close.

Well, the perpetrators are humans too, who also thought laughed and cried, they, unlike most humans commited atrocities, but theres a reason, and theres a cause, and as much as they might not deserve to have sympathy, if we dont give them some we will never be able to educate people into going into the correct path of life instead of this path of life, so i agree that true crime should get better coverage, but i dont see how giving some attention to the perpetrators should allways be bad

@@marmolejomartinezjoseemili9043 I agree with what your saying but I think their stories stories shouldn’t overshadow those they have hurt.

@@honeywater4564 i agree, im simply saying that they should get some converage if they are important enough in our understanding of criminals

One channel discussed the Japan’s “otaku killer”, describing the hard childhood he had…and then the narrator _very bluntly_ said that it didn’t justify anything, and the perp is a horrible person who would have been better off dying before he assaulted and murdered little girls. It ended on a tribute to the victims. I can’t remember what the channel was called but it was a refreshing stance.

@@anerrorhasoccurred8727 yeah! That actually sounds refreshing. She acknowledged it without excusing his actions which is great because sometimes they don’t do that 😅

There are a few yt channels that covers disasters like crashes, infrasture collapses and the investigations into them, to me they are far more interesting and respectful. Some look into the societal and economic failures that lead to such disasters.

There was one I know of that does financial crime. I can’t remember it’s name tho

From what I’ve noticed other crimes are discussed more in podcast form than books or KZfaq (I don’t really watch tv but I’m guessing that 1 too)

@@Slabfish Fascinating Horror is a channel here on YT which is really good imo. Very informative and he always talks about the victims in remembrance.

This is monsters covers a variety of cases

mystery escape rooms are also really fun for this reason. I went to a mothman one last week and it was super cool and interesting and it satisfied that itch of finding clues and unraveling a case

I use a subscription box called Hunt a Killer, where you’re the detective solving the murder it’s similar to an arg and it was super fun

they are funny lmao

I think people have a disconnect with those because most of them happened so long ago, an event happening before living memory seems to give people a pass to make light of it somewhat. not saying it's right or wrong but I'm pretty sure that's the reason

I was a huge fan of Shane and Ryan because of how hilarious they are. Then it kinda hit me how depressing these things were that they talked about. I like their new channel, Watcher, where they focus more on comedic stuff or telling fake scary stories. Feels much better.

@@fluffyphoenix8082 nah the real ones were the best ones

@@fluffyphoenix8082 they have a new channel?

Absolutely, the discussion on how oppression can also effect the visibility of cases, how they move through the justice system, and how valid they're taken is also important.

Totally agree. I think the TCC could actually do a lot for not only awareness, but reforms of legislation. My biggest issue with true crime KZfaqrs is not that they built their career on others’ deaths necessarily. It’s that they built their career, but often do nothing to give back. Just take what they can from a victim and don’t give back to the family involved or use their influence to make change so these things are less likely to happen. People can argue that it’s not their responsibility to do anything, but I disagree. They have such a big audience and make a lot of money through these ‘stories’, sponsors and merch. They have a MORAL responsibility and often ignore it for their own gain. It’s not enough to just be ‘respectful’ to a victim when you’re profiting from them like this. If you care about victims so much like you say you do, then do something! You have all the resources: money, audience, influence to make a change

I’m so sorry for your lost, I just wanted to say I agree entirely. The TC podcasts that focus on the Justice system failures, failures of the foster and mental health systems, and gun/protection order laws specifically I think are much more beneficial

I'm so sorry for your loss. And agreed..lots of love. ♡

I'm really glad they don't. There's already more than enough people out there telling you what to think.

@@marmolejomartinezjoseemili9043 its easier to think about the victim's family if you imagine the agony of dealing with the crime. The investigations, the questioning, being suspected for the crime, seeing their loved-ones brutalized body. Or heck, living for decades without answers. You can't imagine going through all that and having a podcast or KZfaqr badger you over that. The Delphi case for example is so popular, and I have seen podcasts hosts harassing and fighting with the victims families because they just want to be lefr alone. Elisa Lam is another, her life and death being monetized over and over while no one cares how her family grieves for her loss. Many aspects of crime IS publicly available, but for most things like verdicts and sentencing, most courts would advise families with what they want (especially when it's a death pebalty case). If the courts could go this far with respecting the victim's families why can't us?

@@margaesperanza honestly the day i wrote that comment i went, i had a shower and then i realised why familys do have the right for their stories to not be told and i kind of realised that in the end it doesnt really matter because its public info and there is still a lot off families who would be ok with someone talking about them if they arent disrespectful so basically forget my comment, im actually going to delete it, you convinved me :)

I didn't know your sister, but I know people who did, and it really disgusted me how one particular True Crime guy (I don't want to mention his name but you'll probably know who I'm talking about) ran a blog where he basically just dumped every little bit of information he could dig up on your family. Any bit of reluctance to cooperate with him he took as having something to hide. He ended up becoming pretty famous and getting his own show. The whole thing really put me off of most TC content. Anyroad, I'm sorry for everything that's happened, and I hope that you and your family finds peace.

@@matholomewbrooksopoulos7085 it might be helpful to mention so we know to not watch said person Unless it’s dirt bag

@@matholomewbrooksopoulos7085 can you please say his name? i want to steer clear from him

I feel like that's more ethical. I listen to Swindled and try to avoid anything that's about murder or bodily harm.

exactly! i find fraud interesting, especially when its just some massive corporation that got hurt. though, true crime nowadays means murder true crime. people arent talking about other types of crimes when they say TC

Scam Goddess is my go-to podcast about financial crimes! She's hilarious, but the nature of the crimes lends itself better to that kind of tone

i love scam goddess for this reason

I have a question, when you say "victim focused" what do you mean by it? Cause if you mean that we shouldnt cover the perpetrator i would dissagree, perpetrators are the people who caused the crime in the first place, we need to know about them, what made them do it, and more to prevent things from happening again, i would say its better said as "not romanticising or glorifing in any way the perpetrator" instead of "victim focused"

Your comment kind of shook me up a bit. When I was reading through your comment it sounded so specifically like the story of a close friend of mine. I figured we had to have been friends with the same person. I went to your channel and I saw you had a playlist saved which had her name as the title, and had a video in the playlist that was of her singing. It’s so surreal to find another friend of hers in a KZfaq comments section of all places. We probably don’t know eachother in real life but my guess is that you’re the best friend from her previous high school that she told me about. I was only friends with her for a short time, since she transferred to my school in her junior year but we became close and I miss her a lot. How have you been holding up since it all happened? I’ve gotten better over the years but it’s still pretty painful. I completely agree with you in how I feel about True Crime. Thankfully, I haven’t found any videos about her story because that’s something I’m also highly anxious about finding. Unfortunately though, I did once find a online sleuthing forum where people where discussing her story and finding court dates and stuff and it made me feel extremely sick to my stomach. It feels so awful to see random strangers on the internet theorizing over the details of your friend’s death. I’m at least glad that’s the only thing I’ve ever found. Anyways, I feel pretty much the same way about true crime and I was actually going to comment a very similar comment until I saw yours. What a small world we live in.

That’s crazy. That is literally so insane! Yeah, she and and I were best friends for many years and I think about her everyday. I’ve honestly not been too good. I knew her mother, her whole family, pretty well and I started have PTSD symptoms that resulted in really tragic and graphic night terrors. I went to a grief therapy group but it didn’t seem to make much of difference. (Not to demean anyone else’s loss but lost of the people there had lost a parent or parter to long term illness and I felt very out of place speaking about violent death in the presence of folks who were able to prepare at least a little.) I’m doing better now, but I miss her so much. How are you dealing? I’d love to connect more about it :)

When I say ‘victim focused’ I mean that I notice a lot of true crime just kind of glosses over the actual victim to get into graphic details of their death for entertainment. If true crime content is to be meaningful to families of victims and not exploitative then it needs to acknowledge that they are the important one, they are the person who lost their life, not the loser who took it. Learning about serial killer is fun and all and being relatively informed about predatory behavior is beneficial but the inadvertent glorification of murder by ignoring the victims humanity makes me want to explode lol. And no, I did intentionally write victim focused because I’m so fucking sick of seeing people whine about how damaged or hot a killer is or how they could ‘fix’ them. You’re a victim until you become a victimizer. Sensationalizing violent criminals for the sake of entertainment is crass.

@@frank1830 well that clears things up, but i still think the phrase victim focused might be a little missleading or dificult to know what you would necesarally mean by it

Im sorry about what happened to your mom, may she rest in peace and be remebered for who she was and also may her story be remebered, i would recomend you to talk about her yourself, and show coverage of the story yourself, no one can trully understand the circumstances as much as the closest familly member of a victim. obiouslly not forcing you to do it just a recommendation :)

Thats a really sweet response and a great idea. I will definitely do that :)

Sending you condolences; I’m so sorry for your loss. My first cousin was murdered over 15 years ago, and I still think about it often. Hugs.

I'm in the same boat. I had a family members 911 call pop up on a few of those "top 10 creepy 911 calls" and stuff like that. I just refuse to read comments and ignore it all. I can't look at it because I know my emotions will rise and ill end up replying to some of these people.

i understand in a way. My brother and sister were killed accidentally at the age of 7 and 10 in 2020, although its not the same thing as murder, i remember feeling pure disgust and sickness to my stomach at seeing even the news branches in my area exploit us. they threatened to exclude my brother from all articles and say only one child died if my mother didnt work with them to produce an article.

I thought of them first, so far the only person who did not victim blame Bianca Devins and who made the best video on Christina Grimmie. And the way they choose to highlight the victims' lives and paint them in a positive light is admirable

@@maffieduran eleanor neale doesnt victim blame bianca either! her video on bianca was great, she really portrayed her killer as the complete and utter loser he is

His videos are fantastic. I was never into True Crime until my sister sent me his video on Josh Duggar. I’ve since seen every single one of Dreading’s videos. After I watched them all, I tried looking up other content and a video by That Chapter came up. I couldn’t even stand 5 minutes of listening to that guy. He was making jokes and his commentary came across so unprofessional. I was sickened.

Another channel i love "heavy casefiles." Is the same way. No name, no face, just centered on the victim and raising awareness

@@maffieduran disturbed reality is another good channel about victims of the drug cartels

Finally, a good comment

Yeah, _Forensic Files_ is what originally got me interested in forensics & I pursued a degree in it (which I don't recommend, the job market is overcrowded). There's an ocean of difference between seeing a tragedy and trying to figure out what happened vs. using it as entertainment. Most of the people in the TC content industry & the audience are using it as entertainment, and in the most 'having a picnic at the public hanging' way possible.

As a person in system (law enforcement) based victim services I agree!!!

Stereotypes are a plague on humanity. Because of the weirdos who Stan serial killers, everyone who takes an interest in crime investigation will now be seen as creepy and cringeworthy. It's a shame bc they'll be the same people complaining that the justice system doesn't work.

Completely agree, the issue is glorifying criminals. I want to hear the stories of the victims as long as it’s respectful and the story is oriented towards them, not oriented towards to criminal.

I just didn’t know they did that til now I’m speechless

"yeah so they cut her body up" *slurps*

@@zannis5441 Check out Stephanie Soo 💀

@@Jane..497 noo… I saw the thumbnail

@@Jane..497 Her disrespect is unheard of.

@@friendofmaglor THIS!!!👏👏👏

@@friendofmaglor it’s not judge mental. It’s the truth. You enjoy watching people exploit people who died in grusome and horrific ways. I hope your happy and your curiosity is satisfied.

This isn’t morbid curiosity. It’s disrespectful. And dehumanizing

@@rawfermews4186 if you're talking about the kind of true crime media that Shanspeare talks about in the video? Then I'm completely in agreement with you. I apologise if it was unclear in my initial comment, but what I was getting at was that some people can be sucked into the true crime rabbit hole thru wanting to satisfy their curiosity. And that it is the fault of many consumers and creators of such true crime content for sensationalising and romanticising the lives of serial killers, almost always at the expense of the victims and their loved ones' rights to grieve. The alternative I suggested in my initial comment was meant to show that you can still satisfy your curiosity surrounding death and dying (understandable considering the lack of education surrounding the subject) without supporting this type of wildly disrespectful angle. Ask A Mortician, as I said, is a great example of this. She prioritises the stories of victims and focuses on explaining the systemic reasons why various disasters and deaths occur in history (recent or not-so-recent), so people can recognise this kind of negligence, misconduct, etc. in the modern day and shed light on it. Bringing justice to those who died at the hands of it and their loved ones, even if it's just a little. I would, as I said before, highly recommend her channel to anyone, especially those who may have recently realised the unethical nature of much true crime content, and wish to instead learn respect for the dead from an experienced mortician who cares greatly for her cause. Again, apologies if any of this was unclear in my original comment.

@@rawfermews4186 with respect, I do think you may be misunderstanding this commenter's intentions somewhat? I go into further detail in my other reply to you, and would be grateful if you read it, though I wouldn't wish to make you feel forced in any way. Thank you, however, for your willingness to defend those harmed by these true crime shows/podcasts/other media.

@Pinely came out with two great videos on it.

A teacher of mine was murdered on campus when I was in college. I read the reporting on it, I listened to true crime podcasts about the case, and in retrospect I wonder if that was a healthy choice for me, being as I am ftm trans and mentally ill.

@@mitcharendt2253 What does being trans have to do with it? Not trying to be rude just genuinely curious with how that affects anything with your previous statement.

@@fetus1276 I'm just guessing but I'd say it would be the effects from the treatment which can affect psychologically the individual negatively, plus being mentally ill.

​​​@@fetus1276trans people are disproportionally murdered, and need to be aware of possible violence, aka hate crimes, because violence is very common. Which is true for all LGBT+ but even more so for trans people. Need to add: quite obviously this should be discussed in true crime, but usually TC is about straight CIS women. Hate crimes are usually ignored, and not even the police would always label them as hate crimes even when it's obvious the motive was the victim being trans.

This hit home so much since, well, I live around there too. Also, There was a case that was especially hard for me to deal with because the victim was about to become my brother.

Deadass

Fucking exactly.

A bit late but: It's well documented that while crime rates are decreasing almost everywhere, increased reporting convinces people that crime is more prevalent than it used to be. Even when you know this isn't true, reading or hearing about crime will make you think about it more. It really depends on how you react emotionally, you could become more cynical, more safety conscious or more anxious. I personally stopped reading/listening to almost all tc because I noticed I was getting simultaneously desensitized and frustrated. I've only ever been interested in unsolved cases or those involving major police/court f-ups anyway, where there's a public interest aspect to getting information out. But I felt like I started to turn into this **yelling at TV but not doing anything** cliche. Now I stick to local reporting when there's something to raise awareness about with people I know. I don't have any relevant audience and I don't even live in the US anymore so outside of maybe two subreddits where I report any doxing or harassment I happen to see, there's no point in sacrificing my mental health. One podcast I'm still interested in is True Crime BS because there's still a lot to figure out where the public can help, including a literal scavenger hunt for weapons caches all over the US (and maybe Canada) and if it was more widely known and everyone interested just went out to look around some rocks or boat ramps in their area, I'm sure they'd find something eventually. This is a project that can and should be crowdsourced. On my own crime related worries/anxieties: I live in a first floor apartment that had been broken into before I moved in. There are still tool marks on my door and window. Since I can't change them, I got a cheap but loud door alarm and a motion sensor light, and I set up my old phone as a security camera. My house phone lives on a windowsill so its red LED is visible through the blinds and looks like there's more alarms. I set a lamp on a timer when I leave for more than a day. (planning to upgrade this to WiFi and coordinate with my phone alarm someday so it can double as a wakeup light). Spent about 20€ and an afternoon in total and that's as much mental and financial effort as I'm willing to put into worrying about it rn. But it really helps when you can do something productive. It doesn't have to be expensive or take up much time. Or make some safety measures fun instead of scary. Like when I walk at night without headphones, I listen to my surroundings not for scary people but animals like owls and all the local cats. Turns out my town has three different owl species. I play around with the keys in my pocket which also helps with the urge to smoke/vape (my main motivation was just being fidgety). Something like a steel thermos mug can be used to sip tea from and as a weapon. Realistically though, I'm probably more likely to be bitten by someone's dog than assaulted by humans.

I don't mind focusing on the killer - but I think it's the wrong sort of focus. The killer* is presented as an acceptable target for the audience to hate - that's part of the appeal of the genre. It gives a figure who is sub-human, a socially acceptable target for vicarious sadism. We can all enjoy seeing the evil one punished. That is /not/ a healthy societal attitude to crime: That the kind of attitude which results in the public cheering for the loss of legal rights and protections because "filth like that don't deserve a trial." *And it's always a killer or rapist - no-one cares about less salacious crimes enough to make TV episodes.

@@vylbird8014 And almost entirely middle class victims. It's sort of interesting looking at true crime and realizing that most of these stories are about a class of people not very likely to be a victim of serious crime, or at the very least not anywhere near as likely as impoverished, homeless or minorities are. By focusing on the exceptions we can pretend crime is some sort of evil that hunts average people, rather than being an incredibly common occurrence for many people. Like the half a million homeless. I obviously don't mean to imply you're less of a victim or deserve less sympathy if you're privileged, but it seems we focus most of our empathy to those we view with the most to lose, rather than to victims in general.

which is why i love elaneor neale

Would you happen to know some channels or podcast that focuses on the victim instead of the killer?

I've always been more interested in how the killer got caught than the killer themselves.

Her podcast disappearances is also so interesting!!

And “thank you for feeding us” ?? Feeding what? An unfortunate murder?

What podcast was that? Strictly speaking, Breivik is not a neo-nazi (or at least wasn't at the time), but rather an extreme counter-jihadist. He never spoke much of Jews in his manifesto for example and in fact supported Israel, which no orthodox nazi would do.

@@jonweman6128 The podcast is called Morbid. And yes, Breivik is a neonazi and was so at the time of the attack, it's insane to claim otherwise. Even if you discount the many press releases where he, among others, claimed to be a proud part of the fascist movement and that Israel is only useful "as a place to deport disloyal Jews": he openly believed in the Great Replacement Theory and that the Labour Party were "cultural marxists" bent on destroying Norway and the white race. It's the explicit reason why he attacked the Labour Youth League's summer camp. You don't spend years planning and training how best to slaughter an island full of kids while yelling about marxism just because you dislike jihadis. In fact, Breivik looked up to them, and suggested far-right groups start copying Al-Quada. Breivik's a brazen neonazi who hasn't shown the least bit remorse for killing 77 people, 50 of which children. The man did a Hitler salute in court, how dense can you be?

@@jonweman6128i had him in class. He is or was a neo nazi.

And the fact that he b0mbed a building in Oslo that Belonged to the party he was aginst called frp. Some people saw him and he was dressed in police clothes. But no one did anything for about 20 mins after he got to utøya and k1lled the two people at the front when he got of the boat. Some jumped in the water and he kept shooting at them. One died. My english is kinda bad

​@@jonweman6128 he literally has problem with Jews as well if they help him fight the Muslims it's okay but if there were to many Jews in Europe guess what he wanted to do

That's a good idea.

This!

I like Eleanor and you have probably missed this so I’m not like blaming you for anything but she has been called out for providing inaccurate information about victims on several occasions, including by the sister of one victim. The sister was basically pleading in the comments for her to remove the video because the information was inaccurate and Eleanor ignored it. Now I’m not a creator and I don’t know what goes into creating extremely in-depth videos like that, but reading those comments kinda left a bad taste in my mouth about her🤷🏻‍♀️

eleanor neale isn't really an ethical true crime creator either. she's given false information against the wishes of victims' families, promotes products in her videos, and uses weird titles that sound like its for engagement purposes, like her "lesbian nurses killing" video

​@@NyxxIrisI've seen that a lot of her videos here lately have had very misleading titles or clickbait titles to get more attention.

I would agree but here lately a lot of her videos have had incorrect titles or titles that are insensitive or clickbait or clearly focusing on the wrong thing. Like one of them was called "Romantic hike ended in murder" And a few days later it was changed to "killed in the woods for having sex...." Like a lot of her videos now are starting to appear a little bit off. Also I think she covered Paige Dorothy who a lot of people said in the comments her parents didn't want anyone talking about the case anymore and surprising no one the video is still up.

@@Amselium yes! so often on the news i feel like victims are just faces giving the way for “that only ever happens to other people” mentality, having lost two uncles to murder it’s unfortunate to know so well that everyone is “other people” to someone, it’s refreshing seeing victims portrayed in such a humanizing light

@@Amselium YES EXACTLY! Hailey Elizabeth does the same. She talks about the life of the victim, and doesn't portray them as just someone who was murdered. She shows the viewers that they were humans with lives too

I feel the issue with demonizing killers is the way it can come across as subtle pro cop propaganda.

@@mitcharendt2253 there is absolutely nothing wrong with demonizing murderers ever if it weren't for them I'd have never known loss how I do now unless they're saying yay the police fuck murderers

@@mitcharendt2253 ...Literally what? "Murderers are bad" should not be a controversial issue, what is wrong with you???

bullshyt. tc content is worth it. if the victims family's like your cousin can't keep his head together that is his responsibility no one elses. hard but true. TC content is a good thing and if the surviving victims can't see that it doesn't matter. TC helps the world fight against future new victims. sentimentality and the inability to cut of from sm on one persons part doesn't matter. the victims matter, not their friends and fam hut feelings after the fact. More victims coming. they matter. not the little etiquette dreams about content. that is just stupid.

@@erikred8217 1) you have abysmal reading comprehension, i said my COWORKER not my cousin. 2) making podcasts, documentaries, facebook posts, reddit threads, youtube videos, etc. about a specific tragedy does not prevent new victims. that is an absolutely brain dead statement. the only reason true crime content is made is for entertainment and money. we already have the news to tell us about the (extremely rare) cases of serial killers and to cover other types of crime. and 3) why do you only care about dead people and hypothetical future dead people? where is your empathy for the still-alive people who are actually affected by these tragedies? the families and friends who have to arrange funerals, take care of belongings, and are mourning their children, siblings, spouses, and best friends? you are a complete stranger to these victims, and you're defending the non-consensual use of their personal lives and murders, and the lives of the survivors, by internet personalities for entertainment and clout. that is, frankly, disgusting.

is this stephanie soo ? i noticed this too, the comments will just ignore the morbid topic sometimes, despite her being really respectful of the victim/topic

Eleonore Neal's comment section too

Omg I can't stand the "I have been having such a bad day today but you made it so much better now by uploading a video about someone's death!!! Yay!!! 🥰"

@@Kayla_P99 Oh gosh yes. I once read an entire thread about how much more "well put" she looks since she stopped wearing lots of makeup, along with some light shaming of people that like wearing makeup. 💀 How do they fail to see how inappropriate that is??

@@user-kx5en8dg7u idk if the original comment is talking about stephanie or not but yeah i notice that so much in her comments its so bizarre???

spread awareness?

@@ballsdestroyer3000 yeah, I mainly refer to missing person cases when it comes to awareness. But also injustices and lack of motivation for policing forces to find missing persons or charging criminals for their murders/abuses

with all the examples of police ineptitude and justice system failures, I don't think there's much propaganda. This is the only point I disagree with you with. Honestly, I started to watch true crime to get desensitized to the many horrors the real world offers, but it's hard to watch these kinds of videos if the narrator is disrespectful to the victims (eating, putting on make up, etc.) and clearly cares more about what they're doing than the topic at hand.

@@shinybearevidra I want you to think a little more critically about the way true crime is presented to you. It is entertainment, at the end of the day, no matter what medium you choose to get it from or who is the most respectful giving it to you. It’s a story that invites emotional investment. How many times have you heard a true crime story and felt enraged at a criminal not getting punished enough, or felt angry because he exercised his legal rights and was able to slip away? That is the legal system. Cops are not the target, they are servants of the larger system of incarceration. We feel angry and want more and more punishment, we want harsher sentences, we get upset when a criminal has good legal representation. People make laws named after their dead children. Here’s the thing: how many killers suffer at those laws, and how many people slip through the cracks and are unjustly punished or ostracized from our society because true crime encourages us to hate criminals so much? I’m not saying we should let serial killers get soft time, I’m saying true crime encourages a callousness in us that nonviolent offenders face the brunt of.

@@a.egodoy7745 I think that the justice system has to function correctly to be able to serve said justice, with jail both as a punishment and a way to reform. I don't live in the USA, so on that side I can call myself lucky to live in a country that stands by this ideal, even though due to the slowness of the trials it takes years to reach a verdict. Everything is entertainment, if seen through uncaring lenses, politics, crimes, accidents, even wars. I have never felt enraged for a crime because, let's be honest, it doesn't involve me personally and no emotion can change the reality of the situation, the only thing one can do is listen and learn. Cops prove themselves over and over again to, well, not be good at their jobs or the best people in general (take for example that woman that was arrested in Colorado and put in the police car that was on the train tracks and the train smashed the car, I'm surprised she survived), so noticing it shouldn't come as a surprise for anyone, since it's kinda stating the obvious. Servants are still people, there are good and bad ones and there are also those who aren't cut for certain jobs.

@@shinybearevidra Well, given that you don’t live in the US where this culture of corruption and don’t really seem to understand the context that I’m making my point, systematic oppression carried out through incarceration and police forces and abuses exists, I really can’t take your opinion as valuable. Have a nice day!

And she holding a beauty blender ISTG she will be the next murder victim

youtube woman??

@@aspannas yeah, kinda

Me too I haunt the mf until they stop

Me